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resurgam40 posted:Wh Hahahahahahahaha , unfortunately it seems like ange's ideal story involves kinzo being a kind, doting, loving *shudder* grandfather. It seems like in her ideal world everyone is laughing and happy (and somehow shannon and kannon are two people in the same room with the cousins and adults, so yasu as we know them doesnt exist?). I guess Ange wouldnt know about Yasu/lion but we didnt see the witches epithat or portrait either. EDIT:smooth Glass?!?!? when did that happen? lookw fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 19:47
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ZiegeDame posted:I was gonna point at this remarkably efficient display of something hinky going on, but then Kinzo's Dignity happened. Hmm, in a world where Kinzo is a normal grandpa he would not be an obsessive rapist, in a world where Kinzo is not a rapist Yasu wouldn't exist, in a world where Yasu does not exist Kanon and Shannon are separate people. Therefore, this conversation is proof that Kinzo is a good person in this world and no one was abused and everyone is going to live happily  ...oh who am I kidding this is going to poo poo in about five minutes 
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Sep 24, 2017 19:56
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Graylien posted:Hmm, in a world where Kinzo is a normal grandpa he would not be an obsessive rapist, in a world where Kinzo is not a rapist Yasu wouldn't exist, in a world where Yasu does not exist Kanon and Shannon are separate people. Therefore, this conversation is proof that Kinzo is a good person in this world and no one was abused and everyone is going to live happily In a world where Kinzo is not an obsessive rapist, he wouldn't keep his illegitimate daughter imprisoned in a secret mansion. So she left the island and lived an ordinary, quite life, had 100% consensual sex with someone, and gave birth to twins. Then those twins got jobs at their grandfather's mansion as a way for Kinzo to support his progeny and dote on all his grandchildren. I eagerly await Bernkastel showing up to laugh in our faces for our naiveté.
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Sep 24, 2017 20:24
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Kinzo can be a terrible person, father, and a rapist and still be a nice grandpa to his grandkids.
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Sep 24, 2017 20:51
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that is true and probably what's going on. Maybe he realized what he had done and decides to overcompensate.
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Sep 24, 2017 21:45
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Dr Pepper posted:Kinzo can be a terrible person, father, and a rapist and still be a nice grandpa to his grandkids.
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Sep 24, 2017 22:15
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I hate this. It's like being waterboarded with treacle, and the treacle was once used to pickle rotten roadkill.
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Sep 24, 2017 22:42
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PetraCore posted:Kinzo was previously characterized as not speaking to Maria because Rosa dared to name her wrong. Rosa says that Kinzo hardly ever speaks to Maria after he's been dead for two years. Kind of hard to talk to a kid when you're dead.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:10
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Dr Pepper posted:Rosa says that Kinzo hardly ever speaks to Maria after he's been dead for two years. He seems to be doing it just fine this time around. New hypothesis: Kinzo is still dead, but Krauss conspired with the other adults to hire a look-alike to play Santa for the grandkids. It may sound far fetched, but remember that this is a world where Krauss is actually successful at business, so clearly anything is possible. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 23:14
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You know what's inside the presents that Kinzo gave out? Trauma. Trauma and murder. Enjoy, children! Take as many as you please! (Is Kinzo speaking in a his usual "BEATORIIIIIICHE" voice btw?)
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Sep 24, 2017 23:36
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I see the parents have decided to use their money to hire aKinzo body double. A very good use of money.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:41
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ZiegeDame posted:New hypothesis: Kinzo is still dead, but Krauss conspired with the other adults to hire a look-alike to play Santa for the grandkids. It may sound far fetched, but remember that this is a world where Krauss is actually successful at business, so clearly anything is possible. Cyouni posted:I see the parents have decided to use their money to hire aKinzo body double. A very good use of money. 
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Sep 24, 2017 23:50
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Goldsmith does what Kinzdon't
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Sep 25, 2017 02:24
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 "<Hhhhhappy Halloween!! And trick-or-treeeeeeeeeeaaaaat!!>"
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Sep 25, 2017 02:33
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Fabulousvillain posted:
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Sep 25, 2017 02:41
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This more or less seems to be a version of events were Kinzo never lost himself to Madness and as a result connected with his family.
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Sep 25, 2017 02:47
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Fabulousvillain posted:
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Sep 25, 2017 02:51
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you guys sure don't believe in miracles
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Sep 25, 2017 03:50
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A miracle occuring despite the witch of miracles promising it won't? That would take....a miracle.
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Sep 25, 2017 04:17
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Maybe this is...uh...nope, I got nothin' for this one.  Maybe Ange got tapped on the head a little too hard or something?
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Sep 25, 2017 05:27
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Well, she probably did get shot in the face, the last time we saw her (chronologically).
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Sep 25, 2017 05:36
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Fabulousvillain posted:
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Sep 25, 2017 06:12
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This is Battler's puppet show for Ange. Her choice is if she wants the miracle, or if she rejects it in favour of some lovely truth.
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Sep 25, 2017 06:44
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Sunsetaware posted:This is Battler's puppet show for Ange. Her choice is if she wants the miracle, or if she rejects it in favour of some lovely truth. Five-year-old Ange watches Battler enact a children's puppet show version of Umineko, before she says that this isn't the true series of events that happened. Battler then proceeds to switch the script, pull out the autopsy reports, and recreates the fatal deaths on Rokkenjima as faithfully as possible still with the same puppets.
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Sep 25, 2017 07:01
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 BGM: In the Sun They searched for bits of glass, polished by the waves to become small and gem-like. They caught up on news of each other's lives and joked around. They wrote words in the sand. They chased the receding waves and ran away from the coming ones. The cousins enjoyed this time they had to themselves.  "Get back here, Maria! You won't get off easy this time!! Wahahaha!" "Kyahahahahahaha!! No way, no way, kyahahahaha!" "You'll get hurt if you fall. Be careful, you two." "Feels like the wind's gotten stronger. Maybe we should head back soon." "You're right. I think the sky's getting cloudier too. Battler-kun, Maria-chan! I think we should call it a day soon and head back to the guesthouse for the time being." "Uu-? No way! I wanna play more!!" "Hey, don't ignore your cousin. Okay, that's all for now. Here, I'll give you my glass gem." "Uu-!! Really?! Thank you, Battler!! Now, I have the most, so I win! Uu-uu-uu-!!" "Ange, are you okay?" "...Yeah." "What's wrong, Ange? You look a little down." "She's just tired out. Come on, let's all head back together."True, Ange's expression probably looked tired. However, Battler alone thought he saw something else in it.  "...It's nothing."She said those words, but something in her expression showed that she was unsatisfied for some reason. Since Ange didn't say what it was, and Battler couldn't think of anything, he was unable to guess any more. So, he squeezed her small hand, silently letting her know that she could tell him whenever she was ready... Even though it had seemed such a bright, sunny day until a short while ago... The sky turned gray, and the winds started to feel more annoying than pleasant. If they waited around, they might have to deal with scattered raindrops as well. "And I guess it'll be raining the whole time from now on. What a drag." "Still, even though it didn't last long, it was fun to be a kid again for a while." "I can't wait to show Mama this glass gem! I'm gonna tell her I won!" "Ihihi. Even though you only won 'cause I gave you mine." "Uu-! I got it, so it's mine! So I won! Uu-uu-uu-!!"Ange walked distractedly, pulled along by her brother. George and the others thought that she had probably woken up too early and was tired, so they didn't try to talk to her much. As they reached the end of the forested path, the rose garden lay before them. They could see the strong winds making the rose bushes wave.  Maria ran forward, waving her hands about and yelling. It looked as though Rosa was waving to them from in front of the guesthouse.  "I'm gonna head back to my room for a sec. I'll meet you in the cousins' room right after." "Okay, got it. See you later, then."Jessica ran off in the direction of the mansion. George turned around, as though suggesting that they had better get going too. However, when he saw Ange standing still with a crabby look on her face, he realized that she might have been put into a bad mood by something.  "...Is everything okay?" "Y, yeah, she's fine. Sorry, but would you mind going on ahead of us?" "Sure, got it. See you later."George headed for the guesthouse. The only ones left in the rose garden were Battler, who was waving at George, and Ange, who was still staring at the ground and holding Battler's hand. For the past few minutes, he had repeatedly asked Ange what was wrong. He realized that this wasn't anything like a stomachache, or something obvious that had put her into a bad mood. However, young girls sometimes get upset for reasons that only they can understand. Battler knew this, so he didn't rush her in any way, and continued to gaze around the beautiful rose garden, holding her hand.  BGM: None  "...What is it?" "Where... is this place?"She asked the question as though she was talking about something on the other side of the silver screen. Though Battler understood what that question meant, he played dumb. "Where is this? It's Rokkenjima, right?" "You're wrong." "No, I'm not." "How is this supposed to be Rokkenjima?" "It's the Rokkenjima of October 4th, 1986. The Rokkenjima you've wanted to see for so long." "That's a lie." "Why do you say that?" "This is... totally fake."Ange wrenched her hand from her brother's grip. That hand hit a rose and sent flower petals flying. "I don't lie." BGM: Eternity Ange spat those words out. However, Battler's expression remained calm and composed. "...What don't you like about it?" "Ushiromiya Kinzo, for example! He wasn't anything like that, right?!" "What grandfather wouldn't smile, when he's been reunited with his grandchildren after a long time?" "At least Ushiromiya Kinzo wasn't that kind of person!! Ushiromiya Kinzo was...!" "Strict, discontented, short-tempered and quick to anger?" "So you do understand!! What was all that back there?!! How was that supposed to be Ushiromiya Kinzo?! Halloween? Exchanging presents?! What the hell is that?!! That's nothing like Ushiromiya Kinzo... This is nothing like Rokkenjima...!!" "...Don't you remember, Ange?" "Remember what...?!" "We did that every year, didn't we?" "Every year...? That?!" "Well, I guess it's no surprise. The last time you went to a family conference, you were less than six years old. So, it's only natural that you wouldn't remember." "It's... only natural that..."Ange understood what her brother was trying to say. However, she couldn't accept it.  The grand tale of how Kinzo had restored the Ushiromiya family was more than enough to paint him as a rigid, terrifying man. Furthermore, Kinzo was an investor. All the legends and tales that made him seem more mysterious had probably worked in his business's favor. At times, Kinzo may even have acted out this part people expected, endeavoring to make his presence all the more overpowering. That's why the world at large spoke of Ushiromiya Kinzo as a strict, short-tempered man. And they even thought of him as a fickle, bold, incomprehensible eccentric... "But that was just the face Grandfather showed to the world. That's not how he acted in private, alone with his family." "...Are you saying that weeping old man who doted on his grandchildren... is the real Ushiromiya Kinzo?" "He must have played with you and patted your head many times. Do you really not remember...?" "..."Things like that... might have happened once or twice. But that must have been a mere whim of Kinzo's... My parents told me all the time. Grandfather is a terrifying person, so make sure you don't mess up. They always... always said... that he's very scary, so take care... "...And that means... he was a scary person..." "When you were little, you would always accept whatever your parents said and take it too seriously. To put it nicely, you were obedient, but to put it bluntly, you were a kid with an overactive imagination. Dad and the others were just trying to make you realize how important it was to be polite." "...I... I saw it though! I knew about it! I knew that Ushiromiya Kinzo was a scary person! I've even seen him yelling in anger!! I'll never forget it!!" "Well, like you saw just now, Grandfather could be a bit abrupt at times. He might just have been trying to surprise you. Or, it might just have slipped out when he was having a serious discussion with his kids." "And you think I just got scared for no reason... and got the wrong idea?" "..." "That can't be! That can't be true!! I mean, I still remember it! I know I saw Ushiromiya Kinzo yelling and being scary! Mom and Dad were terrified too, so I know I'm right!!" "...The impression you had of Grandfather when you were young remained with you, and that impression grew inside you as you grew up." Ange, who got sick easily when under pressure, couldn't have gone to Rokkenjima often. And, since she was absent for the family conference when she was six, her last memories of him must have come from when she was just five years old. "B, but even you haven't seen Ushiromiya Kinzo, for six years." "That's right. But, when I finally came back after six years, I saw that Grandfather hadn't changed in the slightest." "Kinzo was... fickle, so you could never understand what he was thinking, and he was an eccentric with a creepy love for the occult, and..." "It's true that he had a love for the occult. Yeah, it was a bit of a strange hobby for him to get into in his final years. I'll admit that his hobby of collecting strange objects to scare his grandchildren and laugh at them wasn't exactly praiseworthy."Even Battler had been pranked by Kinzo in the past. He showed me an attache case with seven strange stakes in it... and said something about how they were once used in the Middle Ages to gouge the hearts of victims in a witch's ceremony. When Kinzo first showed me those, I was pretty frightened, but looking back on it, it really was a childish prank. Grandfather only scared his grandchildren because he wanted to joke around with them. "I'd be willing to bet... that Grandfather pulled a prank like that on you too. It's no surprise that, young as you were, you let that scare you and convince you that Grandfather was a strange, terrifying person." "...I... I don't know what you're talking about, Onii-chan..."Ange bit her lower lip and stared at the ground. She said she didn't understand, but in truth, she understood perfectly, and was refusing to accept it. "Remember how we traded Halloween presents in the parlor just now?" "...What was that all about? The Ushiromiya family never did anything that sentimental...!" "It's almost as though... you don't remember it at all." "Are you saying I got presents once too?! I don't remember anything like that!! That could never happen!" "...Do you really think that Grandfather, a man who loved the occult and Western traditions, wouldn't celebrate Halloween? Grandfather's 'Happy Halloween' was pretty much the standard greeting at our family conferences. You must have heard it yourself. Youth can be so cruel. Even though Grandfather put all his heart into choosing those presents, it looks like your heart didn't remember." "Are you saying that I was just too young to remember, and that... and that... was the truth of October 4th?!"That day, just like six years before, Grandfather entered the parlor with a cry of 'Happy Halloween'. Then, he and I traded presents, as he shed tears over our long-awaited reunion after a six year gap. Grandfather seemed so sad that Ange wasn't able to come. So, he gave Kyrie-san a present, telling her to make sure that Ange got it...  "...True. She never... had the chance..." "I don't believe it!! I won't believe that was Ushiromiya Kinzo! Then what about the family conference itself?! Wasn't that a tense argument over the distribution of the inheritance?! All of the adult siblings were in money trouble! That's why they all longed for Kinzo's inheritance money...!" "...Ange, where did you hear that from?" "What do you mean, where?! It's the truth, isn't it?!" "Do you think Dad would talk to you about financial difficulties with his company when you were that age...? And not just Dad. Even if Uncle Krauss, Aunt Eva, and Aunt Rosa talked about how they were in money trouble and wanted Kinzo's inheritance money, do you really think they'd talk about it in front of you...?" "B, but... But it's true, isn't it?!?!"In the end, it was true. Ange's words were not mistaken. Not only Rudolf, but Krauss, Hideyoshi, and Rosa as well... all had companies in money trouble. People started talking about the Rokkenjima Explosion Accident as though it was some sort of conspiracy, and a 'mystery' imagined by the public covered the island. Weekly magazines and television shows researched the circumstances of Kinzo's children at the time, and in the future where Ange lived, that research had been made public.  "But it's a fact, isn't it? There's no difference between facts and truth!" "And does that prove that the inheritance created a strained atmosphere between the relatives on Rokkenjima? I guess that seemed to fit with your memory of your parents telling you repeatedly to be extra polite at the family conference..." "A, are you saying what I know about Rokkenjima... what I know about the Ushiromiya family... is wrong...?!" "..." "You're the one who's wrong, Onii-chan!! There's no way something like that could be possible!! I won't acknowledge that that thing was Ushiromiya Kinzo! I could never acknowledge that!!" "So, you don't believe, Ange?" "That's right, I don't believe!! I just don't understand why you're showing me something like this! After all, this is your game... no, your game board, isn't it?!" "..." "Beato and Bern! One witch after another has sneered at my fate, trying to make me surrender in their games. But I want the truth! Witch illusions won't work on me! Now I get it, you drat witches. So, you've sent Onii-chan as a final assassin to finish me off." "...You're right. This is... my game. So, of course, this is my tale, and I'm the one making it. That's why I'm able to add in 'what if' situations, like what would happen if you came to the island too." "See! You made this tale!! It's all a pack of lies, a fiction you created!!" "See?!! You've admitted it! You have, haven't you?!! Just like I thought, this is all a lie you made...! Why are you lying to me?! Why won't you tell me the truth?!" "...Because there's something I must get you to understand. Something more important than the truth." "Something more important than the truth...?! What the hell are you talking about?!" "The purpose of my game is to help you understand that."Just as Beato's games were made to make Battler believe in witches. Battler's game... was made to help Ange understand something that was more important than the truth. Games never bring about their intended ends by force. After all, Beato's game could never be won for all eternity, unless Battler acknowledged witches on his own. Battler's game was the same. Battler couldn't win in this game... unless Ange acknowledged it herself. So, Battler had advanced this game just as Beato had done in the past. To believe, or not. To accept, or not. The decision lay solely in the hands of the opponent. And so, Battler was trying to enshroud Ange with his own illusion...  "Ange. I'm not trying to challenge you to a game." "No. This is a game. I made a wish, hoping to learn the truth of October 4th, 1986. And so, you invited me to this game, saying that you'd show me the truth. And now, you're showing me this strange illusion, trying to make me believe that it's the truth! Well, too bad. I'm already used to dealing with witches. I'm fully aware that you're trying to use that kind face of yours to trick me...!!" "..."The big brother realized that no words of his would have any effect on his enraged little sister. So, he just quietly listened to Ange's words. But even so, Ange was dissatisfied. "I've had more than enough of this stupid farce. If you don't plan on telling me the truth, then end it all now! I'll find my own truth for myself! I won't rely on you...! That's right. There never was anyone I could rely on anyway... I've... always been... all alone..." BGM: None "...Ah, that's right. Unless the Game Master admits defeat, the game never ends, right?" "That isn't what I meant. I'm just telling you to stay quiet and listen." "...Oh, sure. I'll just stay quiet then. Even if a player isn't around, the pieces just move by themselves, and the game moves forward. Isn't that how it was?" "...That's right. A player can step back and become an observer for a while if they want. And they can come back and join in whenever they want too." "Then I'll do that. This is an endurance contest. It'll keep on going until you give up on trying to cover up the truth." "..." "Something more important than the truth? I don't get it...! How could anything like that exist...?!" "It does, Ange. Whether my tale is the truth or not, the fact remains that you lost something precious on this island." "Dad, Mom. And you, Onii-chan. I lost my family... and everything that mattered to me."She spat out those words as though no further questioning would do any good... and looked away. Even as he watched this, Battler's expression remained gentle. "Just keep going however you like. Later, Onii-chan." "...At least make sure you watch the tale. Even just listening is enough." "If I feel like it. Later."Ange's eyes clouded. Then, a particularly strong gust of wind blew by, sending her hair flying. The wind must have been carrying some dust with it. Ange's nose twitched, and she sneezed loudly.  "What is it?" "...How long are we gonna stand here...? The weather's all weird. Let's go back to the guesthouse."Ange's eyes weren't cloudy anymore. However, the tone and atmosphere about those eyes seemed somehow different from before... In a manner typical of young girls, Ange signaled that she was too bored and wanted to go do something. This Ange was clearly a six-year-old Ange. "Good point. Then, why don't you head back to the guesthouse now? I'm going to stay here." "Why...? It'll start raining soon." "It won't be long now. So, I'll wait here a bit longer." "You're waiting here? Who are you waiting for... Huh?"Then, to Ange's eyes, it looked as though the strong winds were now carrying flakes of gold along with them. No, she had definitely seen something, but she wasn't able to describe what she had seen, so to her it had seemed like flakes of gold dancing on the wind. "So, here you are. I've been waiting a while now."It was as though he was talking to the wind. Battler spoke to the empty rose garden. That can't be right. After all, it was clear from his words that he was talking to someone right in front of him. So, Ange thought it must be someone that she alone couldn't see, and she rubbed her eyes. Then, when she opened her eyes wide, another large gust of wind blew past her. She shut her eyes immediately, and when she timidly opened them... From the other end of the rose garden... Yes, from the path that led up from the harbor... A person appeared. To Ange, it looked as though she had appeared along with a cloud of gold flakes carried by the wind...  BGM: Birth of New Witch  "Am I? I'd call it early." "You should ride the boat with us every now and then." "You mean grasp the handrail and scream alongside you?" "Yes, sure, let's scream. Fall, fall..." "*cackle*cackle*! I see, how interesting...! Yes, I suppose I did arrive too late."The pair casually walked up to each other and hugged. It looked like a pair of friends being reunited after several years. "..."Ange, surprised by this unfamiliar woman, looked for somewhere to hide. However, her eyes met Beato's, and she was unable to escape...  "...!"She was shocked to hear this unfamiliar woman suddenly use her name.  "Look how cute she was at the age of six." "...O, onii-chan. Who... is this person...?" "A friend of mine." "A friiiieeeend?! How can you say that?!" "...Onii-chan's... friend...?" "This is Beatrice. You've heard from Grandfather, haven't you? About the Golden Witch, who gave the Ushiromiya family its gold?" ...Now I remember. That was the scary witch who would snatch you away off into the forest if you didn't listen to your parents or stayed up too late on Rokkenjiima. "Mom said... that on rainy nights, if you look out the window at the dark forest, you might see the witch looking back at you and get snatched away." "Which must mean... I'm supposed to be wandering about in the cold rain, looking into each window to find kids staying up too late? How pitiful that would be...!" "Wahhahahaha, good point. Ange, your parents just made that story up to get you to go to bed on time. Beatrice doesn't do stuff like that." "Very well, allow me to introduce myself! I am Beatrice, the Golden Witch-!" "Or her grandchild, at least." "Grandchild...?" "Th, that grandchild part's a bit of a killjoy." "Well, it's true, isn't it? The person that Grandfather got the gold from and called the Golden Witch was your grandmother, right?" "Nn, nnnnggg, I guess. Grandchild of the Golden Witch, is it? Nnngyah, can't I get a better title than that?" "...Is this person... a witch...?" "Yep, she is. She's a guest who's been invited to the family conference today." "...She isn't a scary witch? She's not gonna take me away into the forest...?" "drat Rudolf and Kyrie. Just what do they think they're telling this kid about me! I don't do things like that...! I'll lodge a firm protest later! *pout*!" She was very loud, overreacting to everything. Nothing at all like the witch Maria onee-chan had talked about, who had lived for a thousand years and had various servants from the demon world. She looked, well, like an energetic young woman whom Ange's mom might have been good friends with. Her brother and the witch talked together happily like a pair of close friends. Dogs often don't trust people they meet for the first time. However, people say that they calm down once they see that their owner acts in a kind way. Surely, something similar to this was going on in Ange's heart. Ange kept staring at this pushy, temperamental woman who called herself a witch as she chatted happily with Ange's brother...  BGM: Melody (instrumental) Beato noticed the gold key hanging from Ange's neck. Ange automatically grasped it defensively. "That's Ange's precious key."After hearing these vague words, the witch stared blankly for a second. But, almost immediately, she seemed to understand what he meant. "...I see. Is that how it is?" "I thought it'd be easier to understand if I made it clear what she's supposed to do." "..." "Don't worry, Ange. No one's gonna steal your precious key." "...Are you sure...?" "Of course. That key belongs to you, and the choice is yours. Battler and the rest of us are merely signposts to guide you on your path." "...?"When her brother gave her the key, he had said that it was very important, so she had to take good care of it. Ange didn't have a clue what the key was for, but it looked like Beato did. However, just like her brother had done earlier, Beato only spoke in riddles. This irritated Ange, but for the time being, the Golden Witch said that she didn't intend to steal this key, so Ange calmed down a little. "...Do you... know what this key is used for...?" "But of course. However, I cannot tell you." "Why...?" The witch said the same thing as my brother. The pair nodded to each other, but it was all Greek to me. It felt like someone had laid out a riddle that everyone knew but me, and everyone was making fun of me.  "You'll know soon enough. Don't waste time thinking about it." "..."Ange held the key tightly. Even if she didn't understand what it meant, it was her own key, and her big brother had told her to take good care of it. With her youthful suspicion, she was scared that the witch might ask her to hand it over, saying that she'd teach her how to use it if she did. Of course, her thoughts showed up clearly on her face. The witch couldn't help but laugh at that honest expression. "Fear not. It is impossible for anyone to steal that key from you." "...No one can steal it...?" "You might say that it has been imbued with magic to make it so. At any rate, fear not. Neither I, nor Battler, nor anyone else on this island can steal that key from you." "Really...?" "Yeah, really. The magic won't let them."The key was hanging around her neck like an ordinary necklace. Ange could take it off right now if she wanted, and if an adult tried to use force, it seemed like it would be easy for them to take it away. However, both her brother and the witch said that it was protected by a magic that would stop anyone from stealing it...  Even the six-year-old Ange knew about the word 'magic'. However, she also realized that real magic didn't exist, and that certain kinds of magic tricks were sometimes called magic. However, her brother and the witch were talking about magic itself. "Yeah. Magic exists." "...Really...?" "Maria spoke of me often, did she not? She says that witches exist. And she often tells you that magic exists, correct?"True, Maria had talked about that many times. When it was part of a game, Ange had believed her, more or less. However, Ange was, in some ways, sharp for her age, and when she heard Maria talking happily about magic, she sometimes thought that such a thing couldn't really exist. "Then, show me." "Hmm?" "Show me magic! Or I won't believe you...!" "Hold up a sec... Beato just arrived on the island, and she hasn't even gone to say hi to everyone at the mansion yet..."Battler spoke as though he was trying to smooth something over. When she heard that, Ange became sure that magic didn't exist after all. "Magic is just a bunch of lies...! I know!" "Hey, stop that. You'll hurt Beato's feelings..." "No, it's no problem. Anyone would say that upon meeting a witch. Normally, I would ignore provocation from such a small child, but she is your little sister, after all. Why don't we give her a special showing?" "Are you sure...?" "Of course I am. Watch carefully, Ange." "O, okay."Though Ange had challenged the witch to show her if she could, now that she was about to be shown, she looked a bit hesitant. She gulped, then stared up at the witch's face.  BGM: Surrounding Ange, thinking that she was about to be turned into a frog, shrank back. However, after waiting a while and grinding her teeth, she realized that nothing was happening. So, the part of her that had been scared began to get angry. "Nothing's happening." "Don't jump to conclusions so quickly. I haven't used magic yet. See, look carefully at my palm. I'm not hiding anything, correct?"Oh, so that's what she was doing... Now that she finally understood, Ange checked both sides of the witch's hand. "...Yeah. There's nothing there." "Watch closely. I'll make a fist, and then stretch out my index finger."She stretched out her index finger and held it right in front of Ange's eyes. Ange, thinking that she'd lose the game if she took a step back, stood her ground and concentrated on the fingertip. "Watch the tip of my finger closely. Ready? It'll be fast." Just as Ange looked up to see the finger raised high, it swung down as though trying to dodge her gaze. In that manner, up, down, left, right, then left again. Ange, feeling as though she'd lose if she couldn't keep up with the fingertip, swung her face this way and that, looking serious. Since she was very young, Ange had always hated to lose. She would take even the most trivial games seriously, determined not to lose to the adults. The witch's hand moved faster and faster. Ange didn't lose track of it. Then, after the high pointing finger was swung down all of a sudden, the index finger curled up again, and the hand was held in a simple fist. Could it be... that something was going to come out of that hand...? Ange, suspecting that this might happen, had followed the finger very closely. There had been no chance for that once-empty hand to grab something. "..." "Ready? I'm going to open my hand..."The witch slowly opened her right fist... And there...  BGM: About Face The witch gave the cutely wrapped candy to Ange as a present. Ange took it and desperately searched for some kind of trick on it, but it was just an everyday, ordinary candy...  "Nope. That was magic. You were watching the whole time, weren't you?" "Nn, nnnnnnnn...!"Since I was watching the whole time, how...? She didn't like it, but she was unable to see how that could have been anything other than magic. As the little sister furrowed her brow and bit her lower lip, her brother gently told her that it was magic, one more time. "It's about time for me to head to the mansion to pay my respects. You should come along, Battler. I'll suffocate if I have to go alone." "You sure? Then I'll join you. What about you, Ange? Will you go back to the guesthouse?" "...I, I wanna stay with you, Onii-chan."She still couldn't accept it. However, could it really...? She still looked grumpy, but it looked like she was getting interested in this witch. "Then let us go. The Golden Witch returns...!" "The Golden Witch's... grandchild returns, you mean." "We really need to do something about that name...!"The big brother and the witch really did seem close. With a kindred spirit like a pair of comedians, they started walking. Ange held onto the corner of her brother's sleeve, trying to make sure he didn't forget about her... 
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Sep 25, 2017 13:28
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what
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Sep 25, 2017 15:19
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Without love, it cannot be seen. For Ange, a child raised without the warth of love for so long, I think the love of her brother is more important than the truth. I'm going to have to watch out for this game, as an older brother with a little sister I just know it's going to pull at my heart strings.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:32
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Huh. OK, maybe this isn't quite as negative as I had imagined, at least in intent, even if the whole inclusion of Kinzo in this picture makes my skin crawl. Because Battler does have a point regarding the spotty past of the family and the treachery of memory in the face of reputation: when all you hear about your family is how awful and cruel they were, and that same family isn't there to confirm or deny that, that does effect your memories of your family, no matter how you want to remember them. Memories are imperfect, and due to the nature of humans as social creatures... well, society dictates a lot of things we would prefer not to. And this point, in turn, raises another question that has to be asked: did we ever really know the Ushiromiyas, truly? Because it seems, looking back upon all the episodes, that we never really got a straight academic, fact-based retelling of them and their history: first we learned about them from a prodigal son still chafing under the wrong done to his mother, and later we learned about them through the recollections of an abuse survivor... and eventually, from the one who blew up the island they were on. All of the sources that told us this story has told it from their point of view and with their own agenda in mind, and it's pretty much Rashomon all over again- objective truth is lost, and may have been a myth all along. So... could Ange have been part of a loving family with a doting Grandpa who celebrated Halloween every year and gave out presents? I'd like to say yes... but we know that isn't the case. Because to say "yes" unequivocally to this would be to deny other proofs that we've had to the contrary- the fact that Ange grew up reading her cousin's diary which described the abuse she received in copious detail, how her singlr mother struck her, destroyed her possessions and left her during long periods. We have the hinkiness of Battler's birth, and the question of which mother he even belonged to, due to the kind of shenanigans that aren't just the usual hospital screw-up. And of course... we have Yasu. And even though Ange doesn't know that story fully, she does know what happened- a whole island blew up and her family never came home. You can show her any beautiful dream to captivate a six year old, but Ange... isn't six years old anymore, and she's got a question weighing on her mind that cannot be answers by some slight of hand: if happy family, why go boom? If there was no secret wife or imprisoned, raped daughter, why did the tragedy occur- and how, if there were no bombs set up? That Battler isn't answering these questions, however good his intentions, signals warning and suspicion to Ange's mind, and seeds a question in this jaded audience member's mind: what actually are we seeing here? Are we actually seeing another Fragment of Possibility, or are we seeing a girl getting gaslighted into thinking an unhappy family was, in fact, a happy one? In short... I think I see what Battler is trying to do here, but he- whoever "he" really is, be it a sorcerer, spirit or merely a memory- is going about it the wrong way. ProfessorProf posted:
Like this, for instance.  Battler, you do realize by calling Beato the Golden Witch's grandchild, you're reminding them how they became such, right? And pointing out the gap between grandmother and grandchild by omission? I hope Beato has a quiet word with you over this... and by "quiet word," I hope they punch you in the kidneys. Repeatedly.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:13
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resurgam40 posted:In short... I think I see what Battler is trying to do here, but he- whoever "he" really is, be it a sorcerer, spirit or merely a memory- is going about it the wrong way. Red Truth: Battler is incompetent
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Sep 25, 2017 16:22
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Nice try, Battler, but Ange didn't watch most of EP7, so she doesn't know the most messed-up part of this story. I do, however, approve of taking the piss out of Beato at every opportunity.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:07
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Huh... So, these last couple of updates have actually rehabilitated resurgam's "it's all an allegory for what's going on in Ange's head" interpretation for me. My objection was that we seemed to be intended to take Clair's story in episode 7 as objective truth (or at least, as close as anything in Umineko ever gets to it), and I didn't understand how Ange would be able to access all of that information. But with Battler's latest scenario now unequivocally presenting two main keys to the previous games as false - Kinzo being dead in 1986 and Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice all occupying the same body instead of three separate ones - I'm forced to consider that maybe, even though Clair's story is the truth underlying all previous games, maybe it's not the truth underlying the reality of the Fragment that Ange actually comes from, or at least maybe not guaranteed to be. Maybe the entire point is that Ange couldn't possibly have gotten all of the information that we've been given. Rather, maybe Clair's Truth is the worst possible interpretation that she has come to while trying to understand all of the evidence that she has been able to collect; as she's come to fear that it's true, she's also come to believe that it's true and to construct an entire most-depressing-possible explanation around it to fit the actual facts that she does possess, and it's this explanation as constructed by Ange whose details we've been chasing down up to this point in the story, rather than the objective truth. And maybe the point of what's being presented here is that as far as the Actual Facts available to Ange are concerned, Battler's Super Happy Family Time story is just as valid, and maybe it's less damaging to her as a person to choose to accept a story like that as the truth so that she can move on than to torture herself with the belief that her entire family were irredeemably miserable people, especially when none of those people is actually alive anymore to potentially hurt anyone else. The only way they can still cause any damage is by their memory loving up Ange enough that she, in turn, starts to lash out at the people around her. Of course, it's still awfully early to be drawing that conclusion for sure. But either way, I can already see why this episode is controversial.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:16
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So, let's take a look at this. We know this still theoretically falls under the whole "pieces can't do things they're incapable of" rule. So we should also assume that this is theoretically possible for Kinzo. I'll accept this as a possibility to move my theory forward. Next, what Battler wants to convey to Ange. To some degree, I can't help but wonder if this is an inverse of what we normally see nowadays. When someone gets killed in an accident or a gunfight or something these days, what's said about them? "They were a good person, they did XYZ, they didn't deserve this". And that becomes fact in the minds of the public, and pretty much no one remembers their bad parts. Here we have the inverse - everyone only remembers the Ushiromiyas for any rear end in a top hat traits they might have had, and the letter-bottles don't help with that. So my thought's that Battler's trying to remind Ange of their good parts, starting with "even Kinzo wasn't 100% rear end in a top hat 100% of the time".
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Sep 25, 2017 22:50
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Cyouni posted:So, let's take a look at this. I assume it's a version of Kinzo that just never lost himself to Madness and as a result connected with his family better.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:28
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It's also possible that what Battler is saying here is just the unadorned truth. Maybe Kinzo liked to hang out with his grandkids and generally wasn't a bad grandfather, and mostly stopped being an rear end in a top hat to his family in his old age except when occasional flareups of madness would happen. Remember, Kinzo was dead at the start of this story, so his character was whatever Krauss and Natsuhi wanted it to be. The view we have of Kinzo is filtered through at least three other people at all times; them, the storyteller, and Ange. And our point of view is heavily biased by the evil and insane things we know that he did, which wouldn't necessarily inform his relationship with his (acknowledged) grandchildren at all. He's definitely suggesting the possibility, if not the actuality.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:16
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Cyouni posted:So, let's take a look at this. I think that Battler is relying on what everyone is capable of using what Ange knew as a 6 year old. I'm not a witch on this topic, so it's just a guess. It's still definitely a warped portrayal.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:18
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PetraCore posted:I think that Battler is relying on what everyone is capable of using what Ange knew as a 6 year old. I'm not a witch on this topic, so it's just a guess. It's still definitely a warped portrayal. Agreed. If Kinzo was like this 100% of the time, then Krauss and Natsuhi wouldn't have been able to keep his death a secret for so long. Kinzo as the hermetic hermit rear end in a top hat definitely existed in the minds of his children. But to what extant, I'm not sure.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:40
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 BGM: In the Sun  "Ahhahahahahahahahahaha!! Simply splendid. I am glad to see you in such high spirits...!" "I could say the same for you. What idiot said you're reaching your last years?" "I just borrow a bit of cheer from you. Once I return to my study, I will be little more than a withering, senile old man." "Enough with your lies! Give it up and swear that you'll be living it large until you're a hundred." "Same here. I haven't seen you for six years, but I was surprised to see how little you'd changed." "Wahahahaha, you little brat. So, it seems you've learned flattery these past six years! Sorry to disappoint you, but you're hardly a fair judge in the matter. I have grown quite old indeed." "I'll bet a thousand yen that Kinzo's still doing great when he turns a hundred." "Yeah, me too. Grandfather won't be any different when he's a hundred." "Wahhahahaha! Don't think you'll get any more presents for complimenting me!"Kinzo laughed cheerily. Beato, who sat next to Battler, was also laughing merrily. Ange stood all alone by the window, staring at the others and trying to figure out what sort of relationship the witch of the portrait and her grandfather had. There was a knock on the door.  "Is that you, Genji? Come in!"  "Father... oh, and Battler-kun's here too." "It has been some time, Beatrice-san. Has there been any news?" "I'm just the way I used to be. Come on, have a seat. And Ange, why are you standing by the window like that? Come over here and sit down." "Ange. Come over here." "...I'll just watch from here."Ange grasped the candy she had gotten from Beato tightly, and with a still wary gaze, she continued to stare. Genji offered her a chair, but Ange just shook her head. "Let her do as she pleases. Come, Krauss, Natsuhi, and sit." "...Is it something important? I guess Ange and I should leave." "Hey, if you leave, who's going to back me up here...?! Kinzo, you don't mind if Battler stays, do you?" "I have nothing to hide. I do not mind."However, he had called Krauss and Natsuhi to the VIP room to meet Beatrice, the Golden Witch. It was hard to imagine that Kinzo wanted to have a casual conversation... After Kinzo said he didn't mind, Beato also asked Battler to stay, so he decided to do so. In order to avoid getting in the way of their conversation, Battler stood up from the sofa and walked over to Ange's window. When the big brother finally came back to Ange, she clung to his waist, as though determined not to let him go away again. "Oh, I see. That must be why Ange doesn't like me." "Huh? What do you mean? I really don't think she dislikes you." "*cackle*cackle*. You never could understand women, Battler."Beato smiled at Ange, but the latter turned to look the other way...  "*cackle*cackle*! Even a young woman is a woman nonetheless."When Beato stopped laughing, the conversation switched gears. Why on Earth did Kinzo summon Krauss and Natsuhi to the VIP room, and what was he going to talk about? Everyone fell automatically silent.  BGM: L&D Circulation "*cackle*cackle*! Yeah, you'd better thank me." "Well, it's actually your grandmother he's thanking." "Shut up, you." "No, it comes to the same thing. All of that gold has been lent to the Ushiromiya family for three generations. And for no compensation." "...We truly... cannot be grateful enough." "Gold is no more than a pile of bricks to me. It was a relief to have Kinzo hold onto it, since I had nowhere to put them." "Whoa. I'd like to say that just once before I die." "...Is the Golden Witch... a rich person...?" "Hmm? Well, yeah. After all, she just went and lent Grandfather ten tons of gold." "Precisely. I've been borrowing it for several decades, always promising to return it someday. It is a debt I will never be able to fully repay." "The head family has never forgotten its gratitude. Isn't that right, dear?" "Of course. If the Beatrices hadn't kindly lent it to us for three generations, the Ushiromiya family would have fallen long ago. Even someone as shrewd as Father couldn't do anything without funds to start with." "By now, my money is making money, and the gold that made up my original funds can sleep in peace. Krauss. Do you know what I am about to say?" All things borrowed must be returned someday. That day had finally come.  "...Yes, I understand. Father." "Beatrice. I do not have many years ahead of me. In fact, this may be the last family conference that we will attend together." "How fainthearted you sound. You must be joking."Beato alone laughed. She looked at Battler, so he laughed along with her, but Kinzo and the others remained silent. Apparently, there existed some major concerns about Kinzo's health... "Of course, I do not intend to die as soon as next year. However, I don't believe I can make any certain promises about meeting you again next year. Not once have I ever made a promise that I cannot keep." "If you say it so proudly like that, I'm in no position to disagree. Are you serious about this?" "Beatrice. I want to make amends. And I must do it while I am still in high spirits. For that reason, I made a decision today." "...What's Grandfather talking about...?" "Quiet. Grandfather is... about to talk about something very important."By now, even Battler understood what Kinzo was about to propose. Beato probably realized it too...  The eagle had one of its wings torn off, and it crawled in the mud, on the point of death. Then, they were saved by the Golden Witch's golden miracle. Under the Golden Witch's protection, the eagle had nursed its wounds for many years. And now, finally, it was time for the eagle to leave the nest the witch had provided... "I will return all of the goldthat your grandmother lent me. Krauss, you have no objections, correct? That gold did not belong to the Ushiromiya family in the first place." "Of course. I have no objections whatsoever." "Are you sure, Krauss? You're an investor, aren't you? You could always do with more money, right? Didn't you want Kinzo to hand the gold over to you?" "Hahahaha... Yes, now that you mention it, it's hard to deny what you say. However, the contract was always between you and Father, and the gold was yours to begin with." "After all, my husband is the successor. Just as Father rebuilt the family in one generation, I am sure my husband will make the family thrive in his. And this is something the two of us will do together." "Hmm, well said. That's the spirit." "...So, you have no regrets to leaving behind ten tons of gold. I must say, that is quite impressive. What can a witch do against an opponent who cannot be swayed by the golden magic?" "I will return the gold to you. However, that will not change the fact that the Ushiromiya family will always be supremely indebted to Beatrice, the Golden Witch." "..." BGM: None However, the expression worn by the Golden Witch herself was slightly lonely. Ange couldn't understand why this was. "...After all, if you're giving it back, that simply means that you have no use for it. Ah, well."Beato rose from the sofa. Then, she walked up to the window and looked down at the rose garden waving in the wind. "Krauss. I have also decided to present you and the others with my inheritance while I still live." "F, Father..." "When I die, you will not only be busy with the funeral, but I imagine that you will have Eva and the others at your throats over the inheritance issue. If all is divided now, the funeral will be less trying for you. Krauss, write this down. And Genji, please be our secretary. I will now lay out the distribution of my assets."Kinzo immediately began explaining how the inheritance would be split up. Battler, realizing that he shouldn't be listening in on this conversation, walked over to where Beato was loitering by the window... "Hey, rich person. If you've got too much gold on your hands, I'd be happy to lighten the load." "Gold... would be no less useful if you turned it to firewood and used it to cook a stew." "What's the matter? You're looking a bit bored." BGM: Apathy "...You do?" "My magic revived the Ushiromiya family and created Rokkenjima. And now, it seems the Ushiromiya family no longer has any need for the power of my gold. It has taken flight, leaving the nest of my magic behind." "True. That's pretty much it." "I have called Rokkenjima the witch's island... my island." "...Yeah." "And now, Rokkenjima is returning the gold to me. The day has come... for Rokkenjima to awaken from my magic." "...That's true." "You're the type of person who looks totally carefree, but who's actually full of lingering attachments and regrets." "The cruel and obstinate ones are usually the quickest to grow attached... and then to feel lonely." "That's right. That's the kind of person you are." "...It was... a game for you and me." "It was fun. It's a game you polished to perfection during those six years..." "I once likened it to an eternal torture for the both of us." "...Eternity... is happiest when you can still believe that it's eternity. But all things must end. And we have to be aware of that." "So, we must not avert our eyes." "Just as the sun always rises, there's no sun that doesn't set." "..."Of course, Ange didn't have the slightest idea what her brother and the witch were talking about. However, even as young as she was, she could feel that the pair had spent an incredibly long time together... and that they understood each other so well that they might as well be a married couple... Then, Beato noticed her reaction.  They were talking in riddles again. Grasping the key that hung by her chest, Ange looked at her brother's face... "We need to show you the contents of the cat box that is this day. That key I gave you is for opening it." "...What do you mean... cat box...?" "He means this day." "With the miracle of magic, I've brought you to the day you wanted to reach so much. You must continue telling the story of this day, as the final witch." "Does that mean... that I mustn't remain here...?"Ange's tone was slightly tense. She understood what her brother meant, and it made her frown.  "That's right. I did say that." "I'm not leaving. And please, stop trying to spoil me with this strange, made-up game...! I want to know the truth of this day!!" "She is a moody kid, be it 12 years in the future or 12 years in the past." "Shut up. I didn't ask you...! And what the hell do you think you're doing...?! Didn't the Golden Witch come here to perform her resurrection ceremony?! Didn't you appear on the island with a crash of thunder and try to offer up 13 people as sacrifices?! Why are you acting so happy and casual?! It doesn't make sense!" "You're the one that doesn't make sense. What are you thinking? Do you want me to be a murderer?" "You wrote a tale about it, sealed it in a message bottle, and threw it into the sea! Two of those were discovered later on...! Both of them were stories of cruel serial murders!" "What a shame that only two of them made it to shore...! How sad that 'Land', my best masterpiece, was never seen by human eyes."Reference note - 'Banquet,' what you saw in the previous thread, is the second version of Episode 3 that Ryukishi07 wrote. The original story, 'Land of the Golden Witch', was mostly written before being discarded after people found Episode 2 more difficult than he expected. The contents of Land are not known in detail, but it was supposedly a special game board where it was possible for Battler to be the culprit, and introduced a character Virgilius, who was later split up into Virgilia and Erika.  "I've been wanting to ask this for a while, but what's up with those message bottles?" "As I was working out the details for my game against you, I began creating those tales along the way. Once I realized that I could create endless different tales out of the same game board, it really started to get fun...!" "So, you wrote them down, hoping that I would read them someday." "Precisely! They were so good, I just couldn't bear to wait for your return...! Inspired by Agatha Christie, I tried sealing them in bottles and throwing them into the ocean. Mysterious, don't you think?!" "Don't mock me...!!! Those were your plans for the crime! You used the location of the hidden gold to fan up discontent between the family members... as you planned your brutal serial murders...!!" "Sheesh, is that how I've become in the year 1998? Well, I guess I can't blame them, *cackle*cackle*." "Huh?! What's with the sudden change of character...?!! Is this some scheme to make me let my guard down?! I'm not gonna be fooled, Beatrice! Onii-chan!! You want to make me surrender and say that witches exist, don't you?! You think I'll fall for that...?! I'll find the truth without your help!" "Even though that truth is all around you right now? You once called yourself Gretel, but it seems the name Mytyl would be more fitting." "Enough!!!"Ange tried to slap Beato's cheek. However, the difference between their heights was so great that Beato dodged before the hand could reach her.  After Ange yelled those words, her eyes grew cloudy. They cleared up almost immediately. By that time, she had already gone back to her six-year-old self...  "...You're right, Ange. This is the sin I left behind, and the reason for this final tale's existence." "...?"As Ange stared blankly, uncomprehending, Beato gently patted her head. "Indeed. This tale is a farce. It could not be true. However, there is something that he feels he must tell you. Something he's so determined to convey that he went to such lengths." "Beato. I'm already showing it to her. I don't want to force it on her." "I see." "...I don't understand what you're saying. I'm sleepy." "True. We should probably go take a nap." "Kinzo. Must I remain here longer?" "My apologies, but I must ask you to stay a little longer. Moving on, Krauss, the continued support of the Fukuin House should be viewed as your responsibility as the Ushiromiya family head..." "...What a pain. Forgive me, Battler. It seems I cannot go with you. Genji. Would you mind taking these two to the guesthouse?" "As you wish. Battler-sama, Ange-sama, please follow me." "Thanks. See you later, Beato." "Of course! I have a mountain of things I wish to discuss with you. And I'd like to have some time alone tonight. We must act the part of a couple every now and then...!" "Wh, what do you mean, act the part of a couple? Ihihi...!" BGM: Cage It would probably be best for her to take a quick nap. Battler walked through the windy rose garden, pulling her by the hand. When he questioned their guide, Genji, he learned that the old servant had known beforehand of Kinzo's desire to return the gold to Beato... and settle the inheritance problem early.  "...The Master decided to start preparations early for his final task in this world, the ending of his life." "Most people don't think much about what happens after they die... Haah. Guess Grandfather's just on a whole different scale." "Today marks the day of a new flight, when the Ushiromiya family will depart from the Golden Witch's patronage." "...That's true. Heheh, that's a pretty cool way to say it."Apparently, a grand Halloween party was to be held tonight, and Gohda and the others had been ordered to start getting ready for it. However, it wouldn't just be a party. It would be a ceremony to mark the return of Beatrice's gold. At the start of dinner, Grandfather would make the announcement, and an applause would give gratitude to the three generations of Beatrices for their gift to the family. Apparently, this was what they had planned. "Is this still being kept secret from Dad and the others?" "Technically, it is a secret. However, the Master did not suddenly begin thinking in this way today. He has often considered this day for many years, and has even discussed certain matters with his children. I doubt that any will be surprised to hear this night's announcement." "Apparently, my old bastard's been running all over the place trying to get money for his company. I guess he'll be dancing around when he hears that Grandfather's giving him his part of the inheritance early. A nice present for him." "I rather think the responsibility is what will spur him on. Since Rudolf-sama left the island, he has succeeded splendidly. However, his success so far has been supported by the Master's wealth." "...And now that he's suddenly getting his inheritance money, he'll have to keep going by his own strength alone in the future. Heheh, that's some nice pressure for him." "The siblings must have suffered for decades because of their father's excess of success and ability. Simply having a parent who is too successful can be a great burden to a child." "And tonight, they'll be leaving the nest, truly becoming adults for the first time." "It seems the Master plans to call this night a ceremony to return the gold. However, he first intended to call it a living funeral." "Sounds pretty depressing, having a funeral while you're still alive. I'll admit that calling it a day of a new journey and leaving the nest fits the Ushiromiya family much better." "...Onii-chan... I'm sleepy..." "Look, we're almost to the guesthouse. Do you want to go to Mom's room? Or to the cousins' room?" "I don't care... I'll... sleep until dinner..."Ange, still holding her brother's hand, crouched down and looked as though she was about to fall asleep. Battler lifted her up and carried her. As she felt the warmth and safety of her brother's back, Ange drifted off into sleep...  BGM: Terminal Entrance Just what on Earth happened on October 4th and 5th, 1986? Because of the massive size of the Rokkenjima Explosion Accident, the time the explosion occurred was known almost exactly, down to the minute. The time was... October 5, 24:00. The sheer improbability of that time proved that the explosion was produced by artificial means. Later on, the following statements were collected from individuals who knew Ushiromiya Kinzo when he was alive. During his lifetime, Ushiromiya Kinzo built a clock rigged to blow up the island at exactly 24:00. This clock was apparently inside his secret study. When he felt mentally cornered and wanted to think up a brilliant plan, he would activate that device and use the tension of the approaching midnight to bring some flash of inspiration to him. While Ushiromiya Kinzo still lived, this was only thought of as a tall tale about this eccentric man, but the fact that the Rokkenjima Explosion Accident occurred at exactly 24:00 supported the story...   Professor Ootsuki spoke passionately. Witch Hunters. Enthusiasts who treat the mad fantasy surrounding Rokkenjima as their plaything. Ange had no reason to love these people, who embellished the deaths of her family just for the fun of it. And yet, how ironic for Ange, who wanted to know what happened that day, that these people were the ones who knew most about that island.  "If someone used that device, the island would be blown away without a trace. There would be nothing left. No matter what had happened there, they could erase it." "Theories that Ushiromiya Eva was the ringleader of some conspiracy sprang up very early on. However, no one was able to explain how she set off such a massive explosion." "And the rigged clock proves that such a thing was possible..." "Correct. We can theorize that Ushiromiya Eva, fully aware of the timing and radius of the explosion, took refuge in Kuwadorian." "...To get all of the family wealth to herself, she killed everyone, and used the explosion to remove all evidence..." "That idea gives the most logical explanation for the Rokkenjima mystery. It also conforms with the fact that Eva never spoke to anyone about the events of that day."Where was that rigged clock, and how did Eva find it? Several forgeries have speculated on this matter. There's no need for me to waste time thinking about it. Eva activated the clock device, hid in Kuwadorian to escape the blast, and was therefore the only one to survive. That was everything, the answer, which eloquently told the whole story. ...When Eva first adopted me, our relationship wasn't that bad at all. I asked her several times. What happened that day? Every single time she answered, it was to say that she didn't remember. But... well, she must have been flustered at the time. The very first time I asked, she answered like this:  It was a slip of the tongue. She knew what had happened that day. And she left this world without telling even a bit of the truth. She sealed the truth in a cat box... and left this world, taking the key with her. There can be only one answer. She was behind everything. She got all of the family wealth to herself and became super-rich. And afterward, she lamented the fact that her beloved son would never inherit any of what she had created, and she cursed me. Just remembering that old bitch makes me want to vomit. What happened that day? That's what I want to know. It's my only goal... the one reason I'm still alive.  After all, even if I don't know what happened that day... As for 'who' did the crime... The 'who dunnit' is already clear. Ushiromiya Eva. She's the culprit. That has never changed since the beginning. Yes. I'm not trying to find out what happened that day. I'm trying to find out what Ushiromiya Eva did that day. If I can reveal that, then I can expose Eva's evil, even though she has already died. That is... my true goal. The police also suspected that the accident might be a crime, and they did investigate. However, no matter how much they inspected the crater that had once been Rokkenjima, they didn't find anything at all. The public and the Witch Hunters cornered Eva with several bits of circumstantial evidence, but since not a single bit of physical evidence was found... Though Eva was only the merest fraction of a shade away from guilty, they were unable to expose her crime... My goal isn't anything as vague as learning what happened that day... It's to expose the crime Ushiromiya Eva committed that day... and to have my revenge. I can't expose Ushiromiya Eva's crime, so people are treating the events on the island as though some bizarre Golden Witch did it all. Defeating the Golden Witch would mean exposing Ushiromiya Eva's sin for what it was. I won't forgive Ushiromiya Eva. I'll certainly... certainly... Hate her and take revenge for my family. That is Ushiromiya Ange's one and only reason for living...  BGM: Monochrome Clock "...Shut up. I'll expose that old bitch's crime. I won't accept that it was a perfect crime, with everything blown away. I'll never do that." "In other words, this journey of yours is a journey to take revenge for your family." "Got a problem with that?" "You must be joking. It's great to know that you have a purpose in life." "...Could you turn that off?" "Oh? You don't like M. Zakki?" BGM: None The dull sound of the engine became the BGM that filled the car. "Is there something strange about it? A fight for revenge." "Not really. I've met people who live for that reason many times on the front." "...You've been on battlefields many times as a mercenary, right?" "Well, I've seen a few." "So, are people who fight to take revenge for their families... strong?" "No doubt about it. Some people'll even strap bombs to themselves and commit suicide to take revenge for their families. Humans are more than capable of dying for vengeance." "...That's right. I could do it too." BGM: Sukashiyuri "You mean kids who fight like soldiers?" "That's it. Kids who've lost their parents and have nowhere to go sometimes get picked up by groups of armed insurgents and become soldiers. They get a gun thrust in their hands, and they're taught how to take revenge. But in the end, children are expendable. Anyone can be a soldier in a battlefield if they can pull a trigger." "Are you trying to say that I'm like that?" "Revenge can be a reason for living. It can also give you the strength to become a soldier. Like a miracle, it can turn a girl who could do nothing but sob over her parents' corpses into a soldier, almost overnight. Nothing gives you more power than revenge does." "I guess so. And that's what I'm like." "Do you know about the child soldier problem?" "No." "Child soldiers who are given guns and taught how to take revenge make that their reason for living. Well, that's not exactly right. It becomes their reason for shooting their guns. But revenge is something that never ends. At some point, they no longer have any reason for shooting their guns." "...What do you mean?" "They used to shoot for revenge. But, eventually, they keep on shooting for no reason at all." "Because they've forgotten about their revenge?" "When revenge is impossible, they eventually tire of it and forget their original purpose. When that happens, they have nothing except their gun. Eventually, they'll keep shooting just so they can eat." "...You're saying that child soldiers who started using guns for revenge... end up as bandits or something?" "After all, they've never even gone to school, and they haven't been taught any useful skills as far as employment is concerned."They only learned how to shoot guns. And they were only ever praised when they killed the enemy. "Eventually, your reason for living stops being revenge... and becomes the means you used to try and take it. It's sad, really." "Are you saying that I'll eventually get tired of revenge, and... uh, what would it be in my case?" "You'll get tired of exposing the truth... and you'll eventually become a person who can do nothing but hate Ushiromiya Eva." "Well, that's true already. Got a problem with it?" "Hyahha...! Come to think of it, that's right."I'm not sure what Amakusa is trying to say. Probably something annoying. So I'm not interested.  "You still have a long life ahead of you, Lady. With your youth, you could do anything. I get the feeling that this journey might be a waste of that precious youth." "It's none of your business. I already jumped, remember? Off this huge skyscraper." "And you were lucky enough to come out of that alive." "Back then... I died. So, I'm already a ghost. And my only purpose is to expose the truth of that day to take revenge on my family's enemy." "...I see. That's an iron will you've got there, Lady." "There's no way a flippant man like you could understand how I feel."After that, Amakusa was forced to shut his mouth. He shrugged, but Ange didn't see. Even so, Amakusa spoke once more. "On the first day we started this journey, you said something. You said you wanted to know what happened on that island that day." "It's the same now. What's changed?" "Now, you're saying that you want to know what happened on that island, that day to expose Ushiromiya Eva's crime." "And isn't that exactly the same?" "...Well, that's true." "I'm tired, so I'll sleep now. Would you mind staying quiet for a bit? Tell me when we get there." "Roger that."I wasn't particularly tired, really. I just said that because I didn't like talking about this.  Ange, who had decided to feign sleep, ignored him. But Amakusa kept talking. He wanted to make sure she heard at least this much. "You started on a journey to learn the truth. It's becoming more and more a journey of revenge. A journey to have revenge by exposing the truth. But, as you know, there's nothing left on Rokkenjima. There aren't even any traces left. Exposing the truth might not be a picnic."...I know what Amakusa's trying to say. The police searched the scene so thoroughly just after the crime, and even they weren't able to find any physical evidence proving that Ushiromiya Eva was the culprit. And a full 12 years have passed since then. If the truth could be discovered by a girl like me, waving wads of cash around to pick up a bit of info from those who were somehow related to the incident, then someone would have exposed the truth long ago. I might not be able to reach the truth. If so, then my first desire - to expose the truth - will probably fade away. After that, only my hatred for Eva will remain. Just like the child soldiers, who forget their original purpose and live just to shoot. I will forget my original purpose... and live just to hate. I'll do nothing but despise Ushiromiya Eva, but my goal, exposing the truth for revenge, will be gone, so hating Ushiromiya Eva will become my whole life. ...Is there any difference between shooting for revenge and shooting to live? When you pull the trigger, someone dies either way. And what about my case? Is there any difference between hating Eva as I expose the truth... and hating Eva after I've given up? There's no difference. In the end, whether I find the truth or not, I'll just keep on cursing Eva, over and over, until I die. What a crappy life. But now... that's all I have left. Ushiromiya Eva stole my family. So, I'll take revenge. By exposing her crimes and showing the world. ...My consciousness was slowly drifting away into sleep...  BGM: None Is this supposed to be the truth? Enough with this farce. Why is even Onii-chan trying to hide the truth from me? I'm trying to find it so that I can avenge him and the others. Or would Onii-chan say the same thing as Amakusa? That revenge is meaningless, so I should stop. Is that why... he's speaking in riddles, trying to make everything more confusing...? ...That's none of his business. I'm not just trying to take revenge for their sakes. I'm doing it for my sake too. After all, that's the only reason I'm still alive. Taking revenge... is my reason to live.  
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Sep 27, 2017 13:34
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ProfessorProf posted:
Mytyl? ... Oh, yeah. Leblanc, Georgette. The Blue Bird For Children: The Wonderful Adventures of Tytyl and Mytyl In Search of Happiness. 1914. Well, R07 doesn't lack for research or pedigree, anyway. And yeah... I suppose it would fit. And once again, I think I can see where the story is meant to go. But I can't accept it. No, I'm with Ange here: this story is bullshit, and I reject it, and Meta-Battler, be he an actual wizard or Ange's better, more hopeful parts made manifest, is trying too hard. It's not the whole inevitability of death or the need to let go of the past that does it, because that is super important (and better done by Amakusa in this very update; I always liked his "child soldier bit." Amakusa rules, Battler drools); nor is it the denial of Ange's hatred for Eva, which also needs to be dealt with (but we can't do it by ignoring it, and hey, Ange reached a breakthrough herself at the end of EP4 [whilst being shot, I know, but an epiphany is an epiphany]); nor is it the dismissal of the bottle messages, although that is a big part of it, because these are the things that have been haunting Ange for years and Jesus Christ, those things are way too full of pain and cruelty to dismiss as mere mysteries and pranks. No, it's this... poo poo... of Beatrice sitting down and making nice with the architect of all her suffering, the unrepentant Coward, and not even so much of making mention of the pain he has caused. It's this blight of a man being accepted by his victim without even a scrap of atonement for what he's done. It's the elimination of three whole people's years of pain for the sake of a pretty dream. gently caress. That. ... Are we not far enough along in the story that people can weigh in on what R07 was even about with this episode, what he was driving at? Because I'd love to hear some ideas as to his thought process here, because I'm having a hard time here, I really am. Why are we made to suffer Kinzo Ushiromiya in this supposed "best of all possible worlds"? Is it some kind of metaphor that an abusive family member stays a part of that family through his abuse, despite everyone's attempt to move on? Is there some greater point that is being made about sexual abuse, and meant to put us in the headspace of somebody who is confronted with their rapist, in order to highlight the numerous women who can't get justice for the crimes against them and have to be around the ones who hurt them? Or is R07 just this forgiving? And if so, why? Why for this crime? Because if the Big Crime behind this crime was literally anything else, that would be easier to swallow, but this... this is the sort of crime that I don't want to forgive, for fear of my own soul. It's just too much, and we don't deal with this pain by forgetting it. So... Anyone? Anyone at all?
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Sep 27, 2017 14:33
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I know, Ange. I've been there. So, regarding your post, I think that the main issue to tackle is, everyone's already dead. Long dead. And Ange has no way of knowing what's truth or not regarding any of this. No one is saying that Kinzo should be forgiven, but rather, he should be used to help Ange move on. Trust me, I've spent more than 12 years fueled by nothing more than anger, and it loving sucks. This is probably the part of Ange's mind trying to convince herself that there was something good going on in her family, so that she doesn't turn into a child soldier, if you will. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm still tired and on the train to work. I'm just trying to say that there are better ways to live your life than just to wake up every morning just to say "gently caress Eva". bman in 2288 fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 14:47
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| # ? May 14, 2024 02:04 |
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uh, I'm not trying to underwhelm Kinzo's big crime and all but the direct source of Sayo's problems is being pushed off a cliff. I think there would and should be a bigger focus on Kinzo if this story was about Beat2's tragedy but it really isn't. It's just background story to explain Sayo's existence. of course I'm reading this from a perspective of a writer so maybe that's why I'm so blase.
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Sep 27, 2017 14:50
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