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TheFluff posted:That is exactly the point of the game, yes. If you don't want to sperg you should be prepared to get dunked on because the game intentionally doesn't have skill-based matchmaking, so you will end up in the same matches as the powerspergs. To be honest, I think the Konigsberg and Nurnberg are actually pretty decent ships for newer players. Yes, the obvious thing in them is to avoid getting shot at, you have no armor at all and rather large citadels. But the recent change to their HE shells means you get IFHE for free, so you can deal very reliable and consistent damage to even higher tier ships with your guns with NO skillpoint investment. That's pretty drat good. The reason I place French or Russian CAs on my list as "not great for beginners" is that their playstyle requires some game knowledge to understand, and the Russians in particular really, REALLY need IFHE to truly shine. But the Germans (and US/IJN) CAs have a much more lenient requirement for mostly optimal commander builds, which is nice. Blindeye posted:Just a PSA for new players: don't sail broadside as a cruiser to ANY ships at close range PSA for all players, don't sail broadside ever unless you are reasonably sure you're not going to be eating AP for doing it. First game tonight I sailed past a Yamato at point blank in my Akizuki and proceeded to shred 25k hp off of him with AP before my torps took him to the cleaners.
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Sep 25, 2017 04:43
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Hazdoc posted:The reason I place French or Russian CAs on my list as "not great for beginners" is that their playstyle requires some game knowledge to understand, and the Russians in particular really, REALLY need IFHE to truly shine. But the Germans (and US/IJN) CAs have a much more lenient requirement for mostly optimal commander builds, which is nice. The one issue that I've with the German cruiser line specifically not catering to new players are the Dresden, Kolberg, and Karlsruhe and while they lead into Königsberg, it's a miserable low tier experience just to get there. Then after that, Nürnberg. In comparison, the French cruisers only have the Duguay-Trouin as bad leading up to V and while Émile Bertin is nothing special, everything after it is quite good. Coupled with spaced armour that allows you to make some silly mistakes, I'd say on the whole they're better than the KMS line for the new player experience. I agree with your view on Russian cruisers.
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Sep 25, 2017 06:58
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Hazdoc posted:To be honest, I think the Konigsberg and Nurnberg are actually pretty decent ships for newer players. Yes, the obvious thing in them is to avoid getting shot at, you have no armor at all and rather large citadels. But the recent change to their HE shells means you get IFHE for free, so you can deal very reliable and consistent damage to even higher tier ships with your guns with NO skillpoint investment. That's pretty drat good. That's a really good point, actually. It also reminds me though - new players, try to get 4 stars in each week's co-op scenario, because you get a free 10-point captain for it the first time you get 4 or 5 stars in a given scenario. You only need a tier 6 ship and you can bring a division to help you. They rotate scenarios every week and the same scenario always gives the same nation captain. Heartcatch posted:The one issue that I've with the German cruiser line specifically not catering to new players are the Dresden, Kolberg, and Karlsruhe and while they lead into Königsberg, it's a miserable low tier experience just to get there. Then after that, Nürnberg. In comparison, the French cruisers only have the Duguay-Trouin as bad leading up to V and while Émile Bertin is nothing special, everything after it is quite good. Coupled with spaced armour that allows you to make some silly mistakes, I'd say on the whole they're better than the KMS line for the new player experience. The Emile is the best non-premium T5 cruiser but the Galissioniere is mediocre at best  I think the IJN used to have the best low tier experience up to and including tier 7, but eh. Really, no cruiser line is wart-free in tiers 3-6, IMO. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 09:09
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Heartcatch posted:In comparison, the French cruisers only have the Duguay-Trouin as bad leading up to V  I played it before UK battleships and they probably poo poo on it (not that the Orion doesn't poo poo on everything in its matchmaking bracket) but the Duguay-Trouin was bananas.
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Sep 25, 2017 09:38
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Duguay-Trouin eats citadels from Orion and Iron Duke HE at angles you wouldn't expect. It's quite unfortunate at the moment.TheFluff posted:The Emile is the best non-premium T5 cruiser but the Galissioniere is mediocre at best That's the complete opposite experience for me.
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Sep 25, 2017 09:40
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I don't get this IFHE craze for Russian cruisers. They reload fast and are accurate enough to snipe different sections of ships - they're viable as fire starters.
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Sep 25, 2017 09:48
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Cippalippus posted:I don't get this IFHE craze for Russian cruisers. They reload fast and are accurate enough to snipe different sections of ships - they're viable as fire starters. You'll start plenty of fires too. IFHE helps with damage dealing when uptiered and dramatically improves the # of areas on a ship you can hit with HE and still get pens.
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Sep 25, 2017 10:42
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Not enough hate for La Galissionaire in this cruiser discussion. Its almost certainly the worst cruiser of T5 or higher in the game. I'll take the Nurnberg over it any day of the week, yes the Nurnberg is made of glass but you can do serious damage in it. I would actually preferred to play the Emilie Bertin through tier 6 than the La Galissionaire.
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Sep 25, 2017 11:19
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La Galissonniere is actually quite good though? It's very agile, has good guns in good turrets with with good HE shells, good AA, and is really only let down by a mediocre torpedo loadout. The only tier 6 cruiser I'd take ahead of it is Cleveland.
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Sep 25, 2017 11:32
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I just finished La Gal and stepped into the Algerie. The Algerie is really nice, a solid upgrade. I've had a bunch of games where it didn't feel like I did much, then it ends and I've done well over 100k.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:11
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Cippalippus posted:I don't get this IFHE craze for Russian cruisers. They reload fast and are accurate enough to snipe different sections of ships - they're viable as fire starters. It's not like you have to give up much to take IFHE either - usually you'd take either AFT or MAA instead and that does nothing if there aren't any CV's in the game. kaesarsosei posted:Not enough hate for La Galissionaire in this cruiser discussion. Its almost certainly the worst cruiser of T5 or higher in the game. I'll take the Nurnberg over it any day of the week, yes the Nurnberg is made of glass but you can do serious damage in it. I would actually preferred to play the Emilie Bertin through tier 6 than the La Galissionaire. NTRabbit posted:La Galissonniere is actually quite good though? It's very agile, has good guns in good turrets with with good HE shells, good AA, and is really only let down by a mediocre torpedo loadout. The only tier 6 cruiser I'd take ahead of it is Cleveland. The La Galissonniere is essentially a poor imitation of the Budyonny. The Nürnberg, Budyonny and Galissonniere all have nine 15cm guns, but where the Nürnberg has a 6 second reload and the Budyonny has 8, the Galissonniere has 9. The guns are otherwise very similar to the Budyonny's (same fire chance and damage on both AP and HE) but with slightly worse ballistics and almost a kilometer less range. The Galissonniere also has worse concealment than the Budyonny, only slightly more agile, only 0.6 knots faster with the speed boost (without it, it does a pretty miserable 31 knots), and of course it has worse armor and less HP. The only thing it's actually better at is turret traverse and medium/short range AA (<=3.5km base range) and I guess the torpedo range, but with only two torps per side you're really not going to hit much. The Aoba has even lower DPM, but at least the Aoba has the larger 203mm caliber going for it, with more alpha and better fire chance per salvo.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:23
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TheFluff posted:
It's a stinker, but the Algerie is a great salve for getting through it. 
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Sep 25, 2017 12:30
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TheFluff posted:The La Galissonniere is essentially a poor imitation of the Budyonny. The Nürnberg, Budyonny and Galissonniere all have nine 15cm guns, but where the Nürnberg has a 6 second reload and the Budyonny has 8, the Galissonniere has 9. The guns are otherwise very similar to the Budyonny's (same fire chance and damage on both AP and HE) but with slightly worse ballistics and almost a kilometer less range. The Galissonniere also has worse concealment than the Budyonny, only slightly more agile, only 0.6 knots faster with the speed boost (without it, it does a pretty miserable 31 knots), and of course it has worse armor and less HP. The only thing it's actually better at is turret traverse and medium/short range AA (<=3.5km base range) and I guess the torpedo range, but with only two torps per side you're really not going to hit much. Other way around. Budyonny guns may be slightly better, but they don't make up for the absolute poo poo truck of a hull to which they're fitted. And what do you mean slightly more agile? There's an order of magnitude between Tier 6 cruisers go Cleveland > La Galissonniere > Leander > Nurnberg > Aoba > Budyonny NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 12:38
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NTRabbit posted:Other way around. Budyonny guns may be slightly better, but they don't make up for the absolute poo poo truck of a hull to which they're fitted. And what do you mean slightly more agile? There's an order of magnitude between This meme is getting old. Budyonny as we have explained many times to you has a much tighter turn circle than other Soviet cruisers, is faster, and has the best armor at its tier aside from the Cleveland. It has only 4km torps, but they are fast with good angles, and it has great DPM, and good AP pen no matter how it "feels" for you because the numbers back it up. I would say personally Cleveland=Budyonny=Leander>Nurnberg>La Gal>Aoba
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Sep 25, 2017 12:58
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I just got the aboa and I'm having a worse time than the furutaka cause getting tier 8 ships in 90% of your games is lovely. Literally lose half my hp the second I'm spotted unless I play like a BB that can only shoot like 14km. Been leveling up RU cruisers lately and like them a lot. I think I might mainly level up USN DDs now that they are starting to click with me and I'm having consistently good (and fun) games. Do Russian cruisers get smoke eventually or is that only British ones?
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Sep 25, 2017 13:03
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Soviet 152mm AP has bad pen, it's not a feeling or a meme, it's how it actually behaves in game. It cannot pen for poo poo. Budyonny may have a better turning circle than Schors, Chapayev, et al, but it's still bad, and much worse than all the at tier competitors. Russian cruisers are far and away the least survivable cruisers - every other nation gets something to mitigate damage, be it armour (KM, IJN), agility (USN, RN, MN), or smoke (RN), but the Russians get nothing, and are huge targets on top of that. Why even mention the torpedoes when they are exclusively suicide weapons? Talking about them is about as useful as talking about AA on an Aoba. Hot Karl Marx posted:Do Russian cruisers get smoke eventually or is that only British ones? Only British ones. There is a tier 8 Soviet premium which has smoke, and a USN tier 7 that is a ranked reward ship, but that's all. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 13:04
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NTRabbit posted:Budyonny may have a better turning circle than Schors, Chapayev, et al, but it's still bad, and much worse than all the at tier competitors. Russian cruisers are far and away the least survivable cruisers - every other nation gets something to mitigate damage, be it armour (KM, IJN), agility (USN, RN, MN), or smoke (RN), but the Russians get nothing, and are huge targets on top of that. The Budyonny's turning circle and rudder shift are both ~10% worse than the Galissonniere's and Cleveland's. The Nürnberg actually has a marginally bigger turning circle than the Budyonny, and the Aoba's is the same as the Budyonny's. Just for the record, in case anyone was wondering if NTRabbit might have gotten something right for once. The Russian cruiser damage mitigation tool is mainly range, also for the record. Except on the Moskva, which gets a hilarious 65k HP and some pretty nice belt armor.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:46
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It never fails to amaze me that they have the cyclone system in place, but they dont make the next leap of logic and say "HEY MAYBE WE SHOULD USE THAT FOR PEOPLE IN SMOKE!" So that people who are just sitting in smoke dont have their full drat vision range as long as someone else is spotting for them. Make it so sitting in smoke gives you vision like when the cyclone, change it to like 10km instead of 8 and hey we've balanced smoke somewhat! Its a far better solution than "LOL IM IN SMOKE NOW IM COMPLETELY INVISIBLE WITH FULL VISION AND CAN poo poo OUT DAMAGE FOR OVER A MINUTE" DurosKlav fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 13:53
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Moskva has practically nothing in common with every ship that came before it though, no other tier 10 deviates further from its predecessors.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:54
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NTRabbit posted:
If I like how DDs play, is it worth going down British cruisers instead of Soviet, or IJN? I'm at tier 6 in IJN and having a poo poo time cause of having 5 BBs in every game so I've been leveling up russia (at tier 4 atm) cause tier 5 and higher is just an absolute nightmare most of the time if I'm not in a battleship (and extremely boring if I am)
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Sep 25, 2017 13:56
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Is the thing where you get a supercontainer for using a Tier X still going? I'm only about 12k away from the Hindenburg and could probably knock that out in a day or two.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:57
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Hot Karl Marx posted:If I like how DDs play, is it worth going down British cruisers instead of Soviet, or IJN? I'm at tier 6 in IJN and having a poo poo time cause of having 5 BBs in every game so I've been leveling up russia (at tier 4 atm) cause tier 5 and higher is just an absolute nightmare most of the time if I'm not in a battleship (and extremely boring if I am) In case it's not apparent, i do not like Soviet cruisers. Having said that, even if you like them, they play nothing like destroyers, rather they play like a pubbie plays a battleship - always driving away from reds, sniping at max range, and hoping they shoot at everyone else first. RN cruisers, sure, you do a lot of shooting from inside smoke, you drop torps when you can, and then you get the gently caress out before the big stuff shoots at you because while you have a heal, you also have big citadels and no armour. Pretty similar to DD play.
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Sep 25, 2017 14:07
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Hot Karl Marx posted:I just got the aboa and I'm having a worse time than the furutaka cause getting tier 8 ships in 90% of your games is lovely. Literally lose half my hp the second I'm spotted unless I play like a BB that can only shoot like 14km. Been leveling up RU cruisers lately and like them a lot. I think I might mainly level up USN DDs now that they are starting to click with me and I'm having consistently good (and fun) games. Aoba is pretty rough with the MM it gets and the fact that it's not really a huge upgrade over the Furutaka. Things get a lot nicer with the Myoko with its extra turrets and armor.
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Sep 25, 2017 14:26
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Lakedaimon posted:Is the thing where you get a supercontainer for using a Tier X still going? I'm only about 12k away from the Hindenburg and could probably knock that out in a day or two. Yesterday it was when I got myself a Grozovoi. Apparently it's going on until the 28th on EU.
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Sep 25, 2017 14:47
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bloom posted:Aoba is pretty rough with the MM it gets and the fact that it's not really a huge upgrade over the Furutaka. Things get a lot nicer with the Myoko with its extra turrets and armor. Yeah Myoko was the first IJN cruiser that clicked with me. It's weird that Tier VII is a small window of "not bad" MM for cruisers... Then Tier VIII happens, and unless you're in either a smoke cruiser or an Atago with its heal. Speaking of which Prinz Eugen should really get a heal. It's a Tier VIII stock clone of a tree ship ffs. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 14:48
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quote:Fellow Commanders!
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Sep 25, 2017 15:00
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TheFluff posted:It adds damage on top of the fire. You're still a quite reliable fire starter, but with IFHE you also start doing significant additional damage while the fires are burning. It also makes you far more consistent (less reliance on fire RNG). It also gives you a huge damage spike vs angled cruisers. An IFHE Kutuzov or Mogami is actually a very scary cruiser duelist for this reason.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:07
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I don't know anything about T10 gameplay, but 1 BB and no CVs seems almost... reasonable?
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Sep 25, 2017 15:21
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bloom posted:I don't know anything about T10 gameplay, but 1 BB and no CVs seems almost... reasonable? Agreed, but in the current meta the best outfit is probably a couple of DDs for capping (my guess is Z-52s), a Conqueror, and shitloads of Hindenbergs because of their tankiness. Maybe a Moskva here and there.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:26
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I'd be kinda mad if I was a carrier fanatic, but fortunately I have a soul so I kinda like this Expecting to see clans using poo poo like 7 Shimakazes
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Sep 25, 2017 15:31
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Guess I should get to work on finishing my Gneisenau grind so I can try out those rental ships.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:35
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bloom posted:Aoba is pretty rough with the MM it gets and the fact that it's not really a huge upgrade over the Furutaka. Things get a lot nicer with the Myoko with its extra turrets and armor. I think the Aoba is mostly fine. It starts fires well enough and if you get to shoot at broadsides is great to start firing AP. The number of barrels does hurt it as far as pure damage goes, but you have some decent torpedo tubes to help. The Myoko while I like it, does require showing more broadside then I would want to get more then 2 barrels at a time on a target. I still haven't quite figured out the Leander and I'm pretty sure it is down to torp usage. Having mostly played USN cruisers and not really getting it until the end of the Peniscola, I tend to forget my torpedoes even exist except to throw at people as I run away.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:37
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HFX posted:I still haven't quite figured out the Leander and I'm pretty sure it is down to torp usage. It's not. They're useful, but mainly as a threat to get people to not charge your smoke, and once in a blue moon you get to yolo rush someone with them. You can't stealth torp and you only have 4 per side so you better save them until you see the whites of their eyes even though the range is actually pretty good. The Leander relies on its guns, and the challenge is getting close enough to use them without getting out of position where you are isolated from your team, left without spotting and vulnerable to getting charged. It's pretty slow and doesn't run away well so if you gently caress up it's gonna hurt. You can position extremely aggressively in it, the problem is figuring out when you might get away with it and when you might not. It's a very good ship in general, but it hates standard battles, people running away from it (slow, short range, awful ballistics, bad survivability in the open) and being left alone.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:10
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Lakedaimon posted:I'd be kinda mad if I was a carrier fanatic, but fortunately I have a soul so I kinda like this 4 Shimakazes + some combination of Des Moines/Minotaurs carrying radar for the remaining 3 slots actually does sound like great fun.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:29
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Clan stuff...I have a pretty neutral opinion on CVs considering I have both Midway and Hakuryu and also bought Saipan and Kaga, but this is a massive slap in the face to CV players. I don't particularly care but there is going to be some serious tears over this. Edit: Checked Reddit after this and lol: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/72ch5q/news_announcements_clan_battles_coming_soon/ I'm very surprised by the 1 BB limit although again I don't really care about it because BBs are too common and powerful at T10, but I really thought it would have been 2. They had really better nerf the loving Conqueror before it starts though. Ideal setup theorycraft opinion: 1 Conqueror - much superior to the others 1-2 Moskva - Des Moines AA strength is going to be useless *although* with only 1 BB it could be an indirect buff to Des Moines. One of these ships is a must though, maybe two to rotate radar 2-3 Hindenberg - best Hydro, best all-round tankiness (ie when not bow-tanking like a Moskva), best fire starter, best torps. Only weakness is visibility and speed. Zao is a fine alternative though 1 Z-52 - best cap contestor in the game 1 Gearing - best smoke and close range gunpower, second best T10 torps Khaba will suffer because of the limitation of there only being 1 BB to burn down, and co-ordinated teams will support their teams in caps to avoid Khaba's raping them. I'm not sure how the Minotaur would fare and I don't see a place for the Shima. kaesarsosei fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 16:48
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Eat poo poo Carriers. 
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Sep 25, 2017 16:58
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Good decision on the CVs, Wargaming... now if you just would hit the delete key on the whole class...
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Sep 25, 2017 17:13
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kaesarsosei posted:Clan stuff...I have a pretty neutral opinion on CVs considering I have both Midway and Hakuryu and also bought Saipan and Kaga, but this is a massive slap in the face to CV players. I don't particularly care but there is going to be some serious tears over this. Problem I'm seeing with Moskva is that its concealment is absolutely terrible - it's less stealthy than any of the T10 battleships, let alone the other cruisers. With the smaller teams, and WG unfortunately cancelling the smoke fire changes (though those would be worst for Moskva compared to the other T10 cruisers as well), teams are probably going to revolve around smoke and radar, same as the ranked seasons. Thus Des Moines, or possibly a Minotaur with radar, seem like better choices since they can actually sneak around decently, accompanying destroyers. Moskva, on the other hand, can't really do that - it either moves forward to use radar and is spotted, or gets smoked far enough back that the enemy team can just stay away. Shima was mentioned since 2-3 together can flood an area far better than any other destroyer even with the higher detection, and they still have the second best smoke, though Gearing is the better objective pick overall. Not really seeing a need for a Z-52 in clan battles, since a clan can probably organize their team better than random Ranked battles - and thus can already have DDs traveling in formation with radar cruisers.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:15
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Here's an interesting post by Flamuu in that reddit thread: Flamuu posted:Worst part is I'm being told the reason WG decided to exclude CVs is because clans involved in the testing that don't have good CV-players supported this decision. So one of the reason we get this shitfest is because clans who haven't been able to win tournaments with all classes included want to exclude the class they perform the worst in. loving lmao.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:35
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El Disco posted:Here's an interesting post by Flamuu in that reddit thread: Flamu salty? Why I never
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