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Does Hyperthreading make a difference in games? Otherwise, I'll stick with the i5.
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Sep 25, 2017 07:52
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Seriously wondering if I should upgrade from an i7-3820 to an i5-8600K or an i7-8700K. I stream but I'm using NVENC because I play and stream at 1080p and I'm an idiot who bought a GTX 1080 Ti to go with my decidedly 1080p system and 1080p144 monitor.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:01
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Tab8715 posted:Does Hyperthreading make a difference in games? I'd strongly recommend going with the i7 this time around, especially if you're a "five year system" person. Back in 2011-2013 barely anything was utilizing four cores - even Windows 7 barely knew what to do with all of them. We didn't know we were about to go through a period where (consumer) processor tech was going to remain quad-centric for 5-7 *additional* years (with the Core2Quads three years prior to that - seriously, the Q6600 came out in Q107), with the only real gains coming from IPC improvements over architectural breakthroughs. Even now all the CPU makers 'got' is bolting on more cores because 7-10nm might as well be the sound barrier in the age of propellers at the moment. They have gently caress all place to go short of finding out what to do with exotic materials, and trust me, entities like the NSA are playing and going to get to play with that kind of stuff long before we use it to get 'moar FPS.' Consoles are also going to scale up with more cores over more clock - that means the more cores (either physical or virtual) you can feed a game ported to the PC, the better. We've already seen this with Battlefield 1 with the 2500K vs. 2600K - people with the i5s/2500K are really missing having those additional threads, and somehow I don't think that's going to become an isolated incident in the coming years. I somehow doubt the price difference is going to be $100 at launch, because ~this is the one people have been waiting for~, but when price and supply stabilize in a few months' time (we can hope), spending that extra $100 might be the difference between you feeling the need to upgrade at three years or feeling you can stick it out for another 12-18 months. Maybe by then we'll all be dead or wondering how copper-graphene and/or carbon nanotube CPUs are going to overclock...and whether Intel will still be using TIM or new "nanite gel." TL;DR: I can't tell you if Hyperthreading will make a difference in future games, because it kind of doesn't *now*. But I do know that developers are eventually going to have no choice but to utilize it because CPU technology as we know it is about to hit a steel reinforced brick wall it's been trying to avoid for the past decade. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 08:14
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Reviews for the 18 and 16 cores X299 CPUs are out https://www.techspot.com/review/1493-intel-core-i9-7980xe-and-7960x/ Not very impressive for $2000 imo edit: anandtech review https://www.anandtech.com/show/11839/intel-core-i9-7980xe-and-core-i9-7960x-review 3peat fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 09:03
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Tab8715 posted:Does Hyperthreading make a difference in games? Right now it doesn't except for a select few games (BF1 comes to mind). Many games actually run marginally faster with HT disabled. The two additional cores alleviate the lack of HT somewhat but I agree with Big Headlines in that 8 threads will be the standard sometime in the future. Nobody knows how important it'll be to have *at least* 8 threads (or when that will be) but a 6C/6T CPU should be better than a 4C/8T CPU in the foreseeable future.
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Sep 25, 2017 09:23
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Wouldn't it still be better to go for the 5820K for it's soldered IHS? If one can find one for decently cheap?
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Sep 25, 2017 09:34
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Also, just to make you  , Intel's had the ability to give us these 6C/12T CPUs since at least Skylake. There's *nothing special* about Kaby/Coffee Lake - at all. This is just them finally being forced to give us more product/'value' for the same price while getting less product yield per wafer because six core dies take up more space than four core ones. ~Who knew?~It's like Caller ID - the phone companies always had the functionality baked in, they just didn't have to provide it until people wanted/demanded it. Encrypted posted:Wouldn't it still be better to go for the 5820K for it's soldered IHS? If one can find one for decently cheap? The soldered IHS on the 5820K isn't worth hobbling yourself with the now-very-dated X99 chipset. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 09:35
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This is the effortpost I was looking for. Thanks. I'll be picking up an 8700K when they and their boards reach GA in Canada I think. Also re: caller ID, lol some providers *still* don't send it down SIP trunks in TYOOL 2017 despite it being more effort to strip it out than to just pass it along.
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Sep 25, 2017 10:00
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Encrypted posted:Wouldn't it still be better to go for the 5820K for it's soldered IHS? If one can find one for decently cheap? The 5820k is still a very capable chip, but it being soldered isn't really the huge advantage this thread's chatter about soldered-vs-paste might lead you to think: it's still 3 generations behind. Even with solder, a "good" 5820k is still only going to OC into the low-to-mid 4Ghz range before the temps start getting silly. For example, I've got a hefty 280mm AIO slapped on mine, and keep it at 4.2-4.3Ghz because otherwise the temps hit 95C+ even with the fans running full tilt. Considering that the 5820k still regularly costs $200-$250 on eBay, you're looking at basically the cost of a 8600k, which hits 4.3Ghz stock. It does have HT and 6MB more cache than the 8600k, but I'd be fairly confident that with a moderate amount of overclocking the 8600k will prove to be notably faster in most applications. Also, X-series motherboard have a nasty habit of not really getting much cheaper over time, and staying annoyingly expensive on the secondary market, so you might not even end up saving much money on that front, either. Plus, you do get some quality of life improvements with the Z370 motherboards, which is a nice bonus. Frankly, if a Z370 board drops for ~$200, it might not be a bad move for 5820k owners to sell their current chip/board and pick up a 8600k/Z370 if performance is similar/better.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:20
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"Unfortunately" my 5820K does 4.7GHz, but my plan was to get a 6900K used for like a few hundred dollars in a couple years once games started using more than 6 cores. I say unfortunately because it's on such the highest end of good Haswell-Es than moving to 8 cores almost certainly will be a performance loss in anything that doesn't use all 8.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:58
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True, forgot that they are going to the 14nm compare to the 22nm they've been using forever.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:58
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someone posted their 8700k benchmarks early rest in peace 7800x
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Sep 25, 2017 14:06
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Looking at their 5 games stock vs stock the 8700K is only ~3% faster than the 7700K. (7.5% with both at 4.5 GHz). That's including Ashes of Singularity which is almost a synthetic benchmark. 7700K sure was a good buy for the "muh 200 FPS" crowd because — as expected — CFL is the same CPU with two more cores at the cost of some thermal and possibly OC headroom. Some Destiny 2 benchmarks would be interesting. Meanwhile der8auer clocked a i9-7980XE with LN2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEdXayoA1Es 5,7 GHz on all cores and 1 kW on the 12V rail. They had to fill the whole heatspreader with TIM so that the substrate could help conduct heat and still had core temperatures above 0°C on LN2. eames fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 15:05
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eames posted:5,7 GHz on all cores and 1 kW on the 12V rail. New Goonbox One X CPU lookin good
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Sep 25, 2017 17:09
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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DrDork posted:Frankly, if a Z370 board drops for ~$200, it might not be a bad move for 5820k owners to sell their current chip/board and pick up a 8600k/Z370 if performance is similar/better. Do we really expect the Z370 to start at $200? drat.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:00
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I dont see any reason there wont be a $105 msi z370 pc mate
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Sep 25, 2017 19:03
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I've got what may be a dumb question about the 8700K. Specs show 2666 memory. I assume this is without overclocking. Does this mean I could buy something slightly faster and just rely on enabling the XMP profile to handle that for me? If so, any idea how high the memory speeds might reasonably be?
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Sep 25, 2017 19:33
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WAR DOGS OF SOCHI posted:I've got what may be a dumb question about the 8700K.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:35
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eames posted:core temperatures above 0°C on LN2.  That is some insane loving overclocking holy god drat piss
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Sep 25, 2017 19:37
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:yes and i don't think they'll ever actually release an H version of the 370, just the 390 Cool. Thanks for the answer.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:38
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Kazinsal posted:
Presenting: The world's first computer that only runs in the winter. Doubles as a central heater.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:41
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WAR DOGS OF SOCHI posted:I've got what may be a dumb question about the 8700K. Probably into the 4200 range. The 5820K was originally specced for 2133 but I'm running mine at 2666 right now and most people get around 3200 from them if they have fast memory. Skylakes were all getting into the 4000 range even though Skylakes were also rated for 2133 and later 2400 with Kabylake so I assume Coffeelake will be similar to slightly better. Intel's also not like AMD where memory speed matters a lot to everything so they might not be bothering to test it any faster than they know will be fast enough.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:43
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Also, just to make you It's not like Intel wasn't innovating completely, they were innovating in power efficiency, which was appropriate given how much the world's internet activity comes from battery power. People on custom built rigs using 600+W power supplies are a really small group in the grand scheme of things. On the other hand, top-level CPUs weren't totally gassed and disposed for an upgrade in two years like they used to be. I loved this past era because I no longer feel like I need to keep getting new CPUs and giving them the eyeballed "time to open a browser window" test like I used to do with 90s/2000s era CPUs. The potential for a new CPU war seems to excite people but I'm scared of what this is going to mean for the productive life of these new chips. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 20:07
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Tab8715 posted:Do we really expect the Z370 to start at $200? drat. Start? Probably not--I agree with Don Lapre that there'll probably be $100-$120 cheap-o boards. That said, I would expect more "full featured" boards to be in the $175 range at first, and then drop down after a few months. By contrast, a lot of mid-grade X99 boards are still $150-$200.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:36
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Asrock Taichi appears to have a 14 phase VRM, their Asrock Z370 Pro 4 looks sensible though https://videocardz.com/72927/intel-z370-motherboard-roundup
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Sep 25, 2017 20:46
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DrDork posted:By contrast, a lot of mid-grade X99 boards are still $150-$200. I bought an open-box X99 board from Microcenter a month ago. $60, minus a 20% clearance sale, and then there was a $50 rebate on it. Thought real hard about getting a 6850K for it ($250) but it's probably going to end up with another Xeon engineering sample. The last one ran me $150 off eBay for a 2650v3 (10C 2.6 GHz all-core turbo), and encodes x264 about as fast as my 5820K, at 2/3 of the power (shows as 60W package power). I am actually thinking seriously about seeing if I could set up a short+shallow rack, something like 3-4 feet high and 22-28" deep. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 20:46
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eames posted:Asrock Taichi appears to have a 14 phase VRM, their Asrock Z370 Pro 4 looks sensible though I hope that ASRock mITX board is awesome as it claims.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:54
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Paul MaudDib posted:I bought an open-box X99 board from Microcenter a month ago. Microcenter always runs the best deals. 
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Sep 25, 2017 21:04
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Tab8715 posted:I hope that ASRock mITX board is awesome as it claims. The usual place where mITX boards suffer is the VRMs. Its predecessor looks pretty decent though.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:06
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Paul MaudDib posted:The usual place where mITX boards suffer is the VRMs. Its predecessor looks pretty decent though. Plus Asrock has yet to offer dual m.2 slots as of yet. Hopefully they do for Z370.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:29
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Paul MaudDib posted:The usual place where mITX boards suffer is the VRMs. Its predecessor looks pretty decent though. What's the risk with a poor VRM?
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Sep 25, 2017 21:36
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Tab8715 posted:What's the risk with a poor VRM? Poor overclocks.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:40
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Paul MaudDib posted:Poor overclocks. It usually doesn't seem that big a deal though. I think most goons aren't going for max overclock world records, they just want the good "safe" overclock. I'm sure you could spend a lot more on a motherboard getting the best VRMs money can buy, but if you get a poor CPU in the silicon lottery, it won't do you any good.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:47
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asrock makes the dumbest loving choices for IO on mini itx no tb3, no usb-c, here's 2 HDMI and a displayport for something that will 100% always have a discrete gfx card
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Sep 25, 2017 21:59
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Malcolm XML posted:asrock makes the dumbest loving choices for IO on mini itx To be fair, very very few ITX boards have TB3 at all because you need a separate controller chip that eats up your precious board space. DP is actually more flexible than HDMI and I wish they'd go to 2 DP + 1 HDMI instead and throw a passive converter cable into the box. The only ITX board with TB3 is the Asrock Fatal1ty Z270 Gaming ITX/ac. The usual recommendation is Skull Canyon.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:25
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I built a HAM setup for a guy and itx /w 2 hdmi was great.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:20
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This is pretty cool news outside the usual who-can-run-shootymans-the-fastest horserace:quote:The Intel Loihi test chip offers highly flexible on-chip learning and combines training and inference on a single chip. This allows machines to be autonomous and to adapt in real time instead of waiting for the next update from the cloud. Researchers have demonstrated learning at a rate that is a 1 million times improvement compared with other typical spiking neural nets as measured by total operations to achieve a given accuracy when solving MNIST digit recognition problems. Compared to technologies such as convolutional neural networks and deep learning neural networks, the Intel Loihi test chip uses many fewer resources on the same task. Also clears up why Tesla would even consider replacing Nvidia with Intel.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:24
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What's so great that you need TB3 on a consumer desktop board? Real question. I mean you're in in a MacBook/ultrabook situation where the ports are literally too big and you can just put a graphics card in, so EGPU hook up isn't needed. That pretty much leaves storage devices and phone chargers, which are both pretty acceptable for regular use with a regular USB on the other side.
VulgarandStupid fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 23:45
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Those intel slides are confusing. So 8700k is the same architecture as Kaby? What is the new arch with USB 3.1 Gen 2, wifi, new sound etc called now? I recall people waiting for Coffee lake because that was going to be "the one" with the new features.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:56
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fivehead posted:Those intel slides are confusing. So 8700k is the same architecture as Kaby? What is the new arch with USB 3.1 Gen 2, wifi, new sound etc called now? I recall people waiting for Coffee lake because that was going to be "the one" with the new features. They're breaking that off into a second Z390 release which will come next year (possibly alongside Ice Lake with 8-cores). Intel is barely even bothering to pretend like they're not milking the chipsets like crazy anymore. This time they basically gave a halfassed "uh better VRMs and better memory trace routing, I guess" answer. Apparently Z270 can actually get Coffee Lake most of the way through the boot sequence and only fails once it tries to initialize the GPU. So yeah, pretty obvious that Z270 can pretty much run it.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:00
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