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There's actually a fair amount of content gated behind completing the game in those special ways pacifist/genocide, and some of it helps explain what's going on.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:41
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Agent355 posted:He literally uses save states. it's an explicit comment on how people play games. It can be other things too but it's that first and foremost. IMO. He SAVEs, which is explicitly a thing that can be done in-world. I mean the entire reason he can do that is because they manufactured Determination in a lab and injected it into a flower that absorbed Asriel., which is bonkers if they consider it a video-game thing. I'd argue they are analogous, but different. Edit: Never mind at one point he explicitly refers to save files. Morpheus has a new favorite as of 17:06 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 17:04
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A lot of people miss out on a fair bit of content because they go in playing a pacifist/genocide route. You can only see this content if you do one thing, reload and try something else. In fact, depending on how you handle the first boss the game will explicitly tell you that the ability to save and load are abilities that your character has. The game also hints that previous humans could do this while in the underworld, but most people miss this unless they go back to change their pie preferences. So yeah, the reason it came out of no where is because you didn't mess around enough by saving and reloading.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:09
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People tend to kind of offhandedly dismiss undertale as being all about friendship and saturday morning cartoon morals but alot of it is actually about compulsive behavior and doing things simply because they exist to be done. It's one of the driving forces of the antagonist and a good deal of the cast as well.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:22
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Agent355 posted:People tend to kind of offhandedly dismiss undertale as being all about friendship and saturday morning cartoon morals but alot of it is actually about compulsive behavior and doing things simply because they exist to be done. It's one of the driving forces of the antagonist and a good deal of the cast as well. though that only really comes off if you the player feel compulsive in doing everything in a game since it's mostly relegated to the genocide route, which is intentionally tedious and uninteresting that aspect of undertale makes a lot more sense if you know toby fox used to hang out on starmen.net, the big earthbound fansite of the 2000s and people on there would find any excuse to replay earthbound over and over, including really tedious and uninteresting challenge runs
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Sep 25, 2017 17:41
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Well even things like the dog you can pet to make his neck extend. It contains unique dialogue for something like 50-100 pets (though only every other/third/tenth pet after awhile), and they start questioning why you're doing this or what value this adds to your life. It's a theme that goes through the entire game if you're specifically looking for it, and it's way more interesting than 'friendship is gud' And there is some fantastically subtle stuff about the difference between you, the player, and chara, the npc you're actually controlling, and which is real and whether it matters and etc etc. As written chara is evil and terrible, so when you're doing a nice run and look in a mirror it says 'it's you' and when you're doing a genocide run and look in the same mirror it says 'it's me' and thats so wonderful. I'm probably analyzing a bunch of poo poo wrong because I'm not professional but god drat undertale is good, and it's so much more than cutesy humor, anime, and dumb surface level morals. It's too bad those qualities are what gets waved about by the idiot fandom and then the anti-fandom rail against the game's weakest points because that's all they know about. Agent355 has a new favorite as of 17:47 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 17:43
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oh yeah, i just meant the genocide route is where it gets the most explicit as a theme
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Sep 25, 2017 17:45
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I thought the theme of undertale was "man lot of people want to gently caress a skeleton and a fish"
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Sep 25, 2017 17:46
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Brother Entropy posted:oh yeah, i just meant the genocide route is where it gets the most explicit as a theme Agreed. Leal posted:I thought the theme of undertale was "man lot of people want to gently caress a skeleton and a fish" Also Agreed.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:48
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Agent355 posted:People tend to kind of offhandedly dismiss undertale as being all about friendship and saturday morning cartoon morals but alot of it is actually about compulsive behavior and doing things simply because they exist to be done. It's one of the driving forces of the antagonist and a good deal of the cast as well. This includes the best ending. on the surface the best ending comes about because of the power of love. But in reality it comes about because everyone in the cast, including the player character and you the player learn to let go.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:49
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The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel port for PC has a Turbo button built in, both for running around and battles, as well as for dialogue and cutscenes. And to make their previous releases (Trails in the Sky 1/2/3) more consistent with this new release, they've gone back and patched the Turbo button into those games as well. After growing up on SNES thru PS2 JRPGS, and thinking I was done with the genre, I'm pleasantly surprised to have found my favorite games of the genre just in the past 3-4 years.
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Sep 25, 2017 18:13
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I just beat the 3DS version of Xenoblade Chronicles and despite having New Game + in general, the game starts up with Dunban using whatever you left him in at the end of the game. Not to mention your traitor friend is running around being half-Mechon as well. 
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Sep 25, 2017 18:25
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I like Undertale, but from what I've heard, Prey handles the themes they were going for with more subtlety and without the savegame/time travel/4th Wall shenanigans. There's also Spec Ops: The Line, which also doesn't have that stuff but is a lot more blatant with its message. And I do mean "a lot".
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Sep 25, 2017 20:19
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Double Punctuation posted:I like Undertale, but from what I've heard, Prey handles the themes they were going for with more subtlety and without the savegame/time travel/4th Wall shenanigans.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:32
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I've played tons of video games and The Line was the first one where I felt like a complete rear end in a top hat while playing it. And not in a funny way that you'd play Mass Effect or whatever as an rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:34
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Double Punctuation posted:I like Undertale, but from what I've heard, Prey handles the themes they were going for with more subtlety and without the savegame/time travel/4th Wall shenanigans. I feel like all three did what they set out to do, and don't really see the themes being all that related between them- especially Prey. You probably won't like Prey going into it with that expectation. Prey didn't feel like it was necessarily trying to speak directly to the player like the other two- more like it was using perspective and memory to craft an interesting and engaging story/world akin to a well polished Twilight Zone or Star Trek episode. By no means does that make it less "important" than the other two- just that it had a different goal. Spec Ops focused it's energies on the reveal that the things you are doing are bad, and you have been trained for that to be immaterial because the perspective of the player's experience is the only thing that matters. It's an excellent deconstruction of violence and perspective in games through the medium of the gameplay itself. Walker crumbles into a mentally destroyed monster because that's what a shooter protagonist is essentially required to become in the scenarios games put them in. You personally murder hundreds of people including American soldiers and women and children. Every single action you do takes things from bad to worse and both you as the player and Walker have to carry that- not exactly Nathan Drake. Undertale has a focus on repetition, obsession, and putting a spotlight on the notion that experiencing content is more important than actually engaging and making choices that you think are meaningful. It crafts a world full of good characters and lets you do what you like- pointing out through characters who remember your actions that you are essentially a sociopath by replaying over and over to see all the paths- especially on a genocide run. Just Offscreen has a new favorite as of 21:36 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 21:04
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Question about Undertale since it is back as a topic du jour: I know that there are at least three endings, and doing anything in the game after the genocide ending has repercussions in subsequent playthroughs. Is that true of other endings? I started a game one night going for a pacifist game and didn't know if I would gently caress anything up or miss content because of that, or if I went a more middle-of-the-road way. I've managed to stay pretty unspoiled as to what happens in the various endings and would just like a nudge toward a particular path if I can still get it.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:35
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Doing a genocide run forever marks your save and inserts the implication that you're stil the same horrible person who would do a genocide run even when you get other endings. That is the only ending that has a permanent effect though if you get the true pacifism ending the game will intentionally lay a guilt trip on you if you say you want to start a new game, stating that everythign is perfect and why would you take that away from anybody;. Depending on your definition of 'ending' there are over 10 of them, considering anything between pacifism and genocide is a short blurb that varies based on who is alive and who is dead in the run.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:39
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Nth Doctor posted:I started a game one night going for a pacifist game and didn't know if I would gently caress anything up or miss content because of that, or if I went a more middle-of-the-road way. I've managed to stay pretty unspoiled as to what happens in the various endings and would just like a nudge toward a particular path if I can still get it. Play the way you want to without fear of missing content.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:43
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I think getting any ending will change one character's dialogue slightly, but Genocide is the only ending with major effects. Of course, you can cop out after the final boss of Genocide to avoid those effects. You miss The Big RevealTM, but you don't miss any gameplay or get any ill effects. There's a flowchart around there somewhere of all the different endings. There's one for saving or killing just about every combination of major bosses (except Asgore and Flowey, since you can't save after starting the Asgore fight). In addition, after a pacifist run, you get a credits roll listing all the monsters and what they're doing. How you save them changes what the credits say about the monsters (e.g. throwing the stick at dogs gets you the "bad" version since you copped out of the fight).
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Sep 25, 2017 22:18
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Nth Doctor posted:Question about Undertale since it is back as a topic du jour: I know that there are at least three endings, and doing anything in the game after the genocide ending has repercussions in subsequent playthroughs. Is that true of other endings? I started a game one night going for a pacifist game and didn't know if I would gently caress anything up or miss content because of that, or if I went a more middle-of-the-road way. I've managed to stay pretty unspoiled as to what happens in the various endings and would just like a nudge toward a particular path if I can still get it. All of the paths are worth it. The game's kinda about player obsession over not missing content though. I recommend playing through the route you're on, and then see if you want to come back for another serving.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:32
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People generally recommend doing a pacifist run first because you are guaranteed to get a certain type of ending on your first playthrough (unless you do a genocide run on your first play but why would you), and once you get that ending you'd then be able to immediately reload and continue on from there to get the 'true' pacifist ending. If you just do whatever on your fiirst playthrough you'd instead have to replay the entire game again to see it. It's still worth playing no matter what.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:09
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I do love playing as Alexei Stukov in Starcraft 2 co-op. It's rare for an RTS faction with a swarm or undead theme to actually live up to the hype of playing as a zombie apocalypse, but Stukov comes appealingly close. His core infantry unit spawns automatically for free and starts as eight zombies but can be upgraded to as many as 64 per pop, his primary defensive structure spawns more zombies for free and can disgorge a whole lot more zombies for free at the cost of temporarily disabling and then weakening its firepower, and his main non-free unit is the cheapest non-free unit in the game and best spammed in bulk. It's to the point where Stukov doesn't even bother with traditional rally points for his infantry, he can just plant a beacon anywhere on the map and his zombie hordes will shamble towards it attacking anything in their way. He does have perfectly efficient and good vehicle and air units to back up the zombies if you're so inclined, but aside from providing detection I always find myself asking why I should bother. Endless, rolling tides of zombies is something no other commander can do in SC2 and best of all it works really drat well. If you're okay with your end of game statistics showing that you made and lost (no exaggeration) thousands and thousands of units while your partner has made only dozens, perhaps hundreds and lost far less than they produced, Stukov is your man. And just in case the zombies aren't enough, you have an infested battlecruiser you can call in and what amounts to a battlemech welded onto a t-rex you can summon temporarily.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:39
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I'd kinda thought I'd play through Undertale to see both the good and the bad ending, because what I'd heard of the genocide route sounds incredibly hosed up and creepy. But when I got the true pacifist ending I genuinely couldn't face going back to the game and murdering all the nice, charming and friendly NPCs. I agreed when it asked if I was really sure I wanted to ruin everyone's happiness. It sounds lame, but the game got to me. It's brill like that - and I was a huge skeptic after seeing the poo poo the fan community was up to.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:44
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It's just a game
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Sep 25, 2017 23:50
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Calaveron posted:It's just a game Then why are you mad about it
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Sep 25, 2017 23:55
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Mr. Flunchy posted:It sounds lame, but the game got to me. It's brill like that - and I was a huge skeptic after seeing the poo poo the fan community was up to. Most good things are ruined by their fanbases. You engaged with the game exactly as it was designed and were able to let it go afterwards. That's a lot more rare than you would think- it's much more common to have the player treat the game experience like the buffet at Golden Corral. "I don't have time to enjoy myself. I have to get all the content as quickly and easily as possible!"
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Sep 26, 2017 00:07
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Calaveron posted:It's just a game Whoa, dropping the serious eye-openers over here
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Sep 26, 2017 00:08
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Calaveron posted:It's just a game When I hear about people that don't play the genocide run for any reason other than they're sick of the game, I don't get it. It'd be like reading a book you really enjoyed, and then it telling you not to read the last 5 chapters because it'll bum you out. The game asks, "Is this REALLY just a video game, or is it really about you??..." The answer is: It is just a video game. Genocide run has some of the most interesting gameplay, music, and story of the whole thing. That's my feeling on it; do what you wanna do. As an aside, it's too bad Undertale gets judged by its 'twists' and gimmicks so much. It's just a really good package altogether with great music. I bought it not expecting anything, it it was a nice surprise.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:35
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Captain Lavender posted:Genocide run has some of the most interesting gameplay, Yeah, you're gonna have to qualify this one, because the concept of walking around in a circle a bunch of times until enemies stop showing up is about as appealing as getting dragged behind a car
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Sep 26, 2017 00:54
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Inco posted:Yeah, you're gonna have to qualify this one, because the concept of walking around in a circle a bunch of times until enemies stop showing up is about as appealing as getting dragged behind a car Yeah fair point. 'Interesting' was the wrong word. More so: if you got ANYTHING out of the battle system, this run has the most challenging battles.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:59
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Inco posted:Yeah, you're gonna have to qualify this one, because the concept of walking around in a circle a bunch of times until enemies stop showing up is about as appealing as getting dragged behind a car How fast is that car going though?
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Sep 26, 2017 01:00
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Inco posted:Yeah, you're gonna have to qualify this one, because the concept of walking around in a circle a bunch of times until enemies stop showing up is about as appealing as getting dragged behind a car the boss fights are way more challenging and (imo) interesting, not to say the ones in a normal run aren't. the grind to get them sucks but that's kind of the point
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Sep 26, 2017 01:03
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Inco posted:Yeah, you're gonna have to qualify this one, because the concept of walking around in a circle a bunch of times until enemies stop showing up is about as appealing as getting dragged behind a car It's kinda worth it for the oppressive emptiness of the battle screens after the last enemy shows up. E: someone awful. posted:the boss fights are way more challenging and (imo) interesting, not to say the ones in a normal run aren't. the grind to get them sucks but that's kind of the point Also the geno run boss music, heard in context, is the best in the game. Battle Against A True Hero is phenomenal. Somfin has a new favorite as of 01:06 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 01:04
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Megalovania is still the best song, which seems like such a weird reward when it's at the very end of a genocide run.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:31
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You can stop right after that if you wanted to. And its the last time the game rewards you for following the G-route.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:03
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Calaveron posted:It's just a game Silly little things.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:23
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RagnarokAngel posted:Megalovania is still the best song, which seems like such a weird reward when it's at the very end of a genocide run. Dogsong is the best song
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Sep 26, 2017 03:05
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Inco posted:Yeah, you're gonna have to qualify this one, because the concept of walking around in a circle a bunch of times until enemies stop showing up is about as appealing as getting dragged behind a car Just edit the save file. Nobody really gives a poo poo if you do.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:08
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Double Punctuation posted:Just edit the save file. Nobody really gives a poo poo if you do. I do. I'll judge the poo poo out of that save editing. It is shameful. 😑
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Sep 26, 2017 03:18
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