|
al-azad posted:I don't remember them talking about the island but all the characters hung out at the beach before the case, and even the main character makes an observation about the island in the chapter before so there's nothing farfetched about people seeing weird stuff. Go back and read the part of Case 2 where the culprit shows up to the diner in her swimsuit with the rest of them. It only makes sense if she isn't the culprit, but she is.
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 18:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 10:02 |
|
|
lol @ anyone who played the first Pagan Rand No! and then bought the sequel thinking "hmmm yes surely this one will be full of the same tight logic and detective puzzling as the original!" 3 is probably gonna be fun idc if anything in it makes even the slightest bit of sense
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
This is probably on a lot of people's wishlists but I'd love to play a murder mystery game set in medieval Europe, so while you use forensic evidence and good detective work to solve crimes, your suspects also have an even chance of being a witch or possessed by the devil.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:01
|
|
|
Ometeotl posted:Go back and read the part of Case 2 where the culprit shows up to the diner in her swimsuit with the rest of them. It only makes sense if she isn't the culprit, but she is. I don't know why it doesn't make sense? Swimming was the alibi they needed but if you talk to the character before the case it's not the first time they went swimming.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:01
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:This is probably on a lot of people's wishlists but I'd love to play a murder mystery game set in medieval Europe, so while you use forensic evidence and good detective work to solve crimes, your suspects also have an even chance of being a witch or possessed by the devil. I doesn't need to be medieval Europe, this is literally the last case of Phoenix Wright 3
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:03
|
|
|
Assassin's Creed Syndicate (that's the good one) had a murder mysteries dlc that was pretty good. I don't think I finished them all though because I kept getting distracted by all the everything else that gets crammed into those games.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:04
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:It's ironic how RTwP combat systems are often times choppier and slower than true TB because your party AI is often so goddamn stupid that you have to hit space every split second just to keep them from gleefully running into the fire. Real Time with Pause is just a bad gameplay system, period. Real time works well if you want part of the gameplay challenge to be rapidly dealing with things in the moment, with reaction time, dexterity, and quick thinking being part of the skills test. It also helps if your units or characters have a simple set of stats and abilities that allow you to accurately judge big-picture cause-and-effect relations on the fly. This is why it works with RTS games. It does not work with characters that have tons of stats with dozens of interactions and eight pages of spells. To manage those optimally you need to pause, and that pause deflates all those aspects of reaction time, dexterity, and quick thinking. If you want the player to be thoughtful and precise with actions that lead to complex emergent reactions, a turn-based system works well and players will gravitate towards playing it like it's turn-based, aka precision posted:the only problem i have with RTwP is that the best way to play it is to pause and give orders to everyone, every time they finish their action. if you made a system that was "turn based" but still had everyone acting simultaneously then that would be cool. but that's what RTwP in Pillars already is, so. So what RTwP ends up becoming is a turn-based game with variable turn durations, an aspect that makes things more complicated while adding few interesting choices. It gives you the worst of both worlds by creating a gameplay experience that is both chaotic and difficult to manage while also being fiddly and slow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:07
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:This is probably on a lot of people's wishlists but I'd love to play a murder mystery game set in medieval Europe, so while you use forensic evidence and good detective work to solve crimes, your suspects also have an even chance of being a witch or possessed by the devil. Wouldn't most logic be thrown out the window when you bring literal magic into the game though? Not sure how you're supposed to use deductive reasoning to figure out the killer's murder weapon was a magically summoned lighting bolt.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:So what RTwP ends up becoming is a turn-based game with variable turn durations, an aspect that makes things more complicated while adding few interesting choices. It gives you the worst of both worlds by creating a gameplay experience that is both chaotic and difficult to manage while also being fiddly and slow. Well, I think it's not the turns that have variable durations, just that actions have variable speeds? Like the IE games had an option to "auto-pause at turn's end". They still had turns. I'm leery of saying that entirely turn-based combat is any better because look at Wasteland 2.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Wouldn't most logic be thrown out the window when you bring literal magic into the game though? Not sure how you're supposed to use deductive reasoning to figure out the killer's murder weapon was a magically summoned lighting bolt. That's the whole idea, you'd be solving crimes through the lens of whatever limited methodology was available to a learned European monk at the time. You could go the super scientific rational route, but you could also pray to St. Bartholomew Lord of Fingerprints for guidance and both paths would test your deductive reasoning skills.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
Ultimately, all games are turn-based, it's just a matter of how fast the turn timer is. And now I just got a feeling of deja vu
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
Tyranny and PoE have this issue where everything is good and fun and manageable with a nearly-full party, but then you get your final party member and I just stop giving a poo poo. Too many buttons to worry about, too many pauses caused by the "Auto-pause on target destroyed / spell cast / ability completed" option I turned on, I'm done with micromanaging my dudes, time to turn on the Party AI and just speed through every fight.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
Jay Rust posted:Tyranny and PoE have this issue where everything is good and fun and manageable with a nearly-full party, but then you get your final party member and I just stop giving a poo poo. Too many buttons to worry about, too many pauses caused by the "Auto-pause on target destroyed / spell cast / ability completed" option I turned on, I'm done with micromanaging my dudes, time to turn on the Party AI and just speed through every fight. That, and (for PoE) once you get to a certain level and have way too many spells to pick from. It'll be interesting to see if PoE2 can keep me invested at high-level play when I have forty different variations on Do Damage To This Many Dudes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:33
|
|
|
can somebody recommend a good MMORPG that has a firearm focused class? I'm tired of using bows and swords.
Mycroft Holmes fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:38
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Wouldn't most logic be thrown out the window when you bring literal magic into the game though? Not sure how you're supposed to use deductive reasoning to figure out the killer's murder weapon was a magically summoned lighting bolt. professor layton managed it e: the character not the game
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
Mycroft Holmes posted:can somebody recommend a good MMO that has a firearm focused class? I'm tired of using bows and swords. The Division. It has a free trial, you can check it out before throwing cash down.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
StrixNebulosa posted:The Division. It has a free trial, you can check it out before throwing cash down. Already played that, I'm looking for something more rpg.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:41
|
|
|
In before the "good MMO" jokes: Guild Wars 2 has a ton of firearm options (pistols, rifles, blunderbusses) The Secret World is in a modern setting and has guns. The MMO gameplay was bad and I heard their attempts to fix it just made it worse? Star Wars the Old Republic has a lot of pew pew guns. Of course, Destiny 2 is all guns all the time, it's basically an MMO right
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:41
|
|
|
precision posted:That, and (for PoE) once you get to a certain level and have way too many spells to pick from. This is one thing I think PoE fumbled compared to say baldur's gate. It was actually good to have a couple set it and forget style classes, figthers or whatever, so that you could focus your energy on the more micro intensive casters. When the fighters also have a bunch of abilities to sift through too it starts to get unmanageable. Mycroft Holmes posted:can somebody recommend a good MMORPG that has a firearm focused class? I'm tired of using bows and swords. ff14, machinist
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
FF14 has machinist. It's unfun and also you need to play like 200 hours before you can unlock it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
Double post. http://i.imgur.com/aPVxr9t.gifv http://i.imgur.com/ThvyPe1.gifv http://i.imgur.com/72ntdJi.gifv Saint Freak fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Sep 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
precision posted:Well, I think it's not the turns that have variable durations, just that actions have variable speeds? Like the IE games had an option to "auto-pause at turn's end". They still had turns. There are plenty of good turn-based based combat systems though, even in the CRPG genre. Look the newly released Original Sin 2 for example.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
Lizard Wizard posted:What's this called? I could use something like this for the slow times at work. It's published by Square Enix so it's pretty polished.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
Andrast posted:There are plenty of good turn-based based combat systems though, even in the CRPG genre. Well I mean, quality is subjective and on a case by case basis. That's what I was getting at. There are good RTwP games and bad turn-based games, and vice versa. Neither system is inherently better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
Saint Freak posted:FF14 has machinist. It's unfun and also you need to play like 200 hours before you can unlock it. you say it's unfun but then you post .gifs that make it look super fun  e: "To you, the 200 hours you spent unlocking a class was an eternity. For every other MMORPG... it was Tuesday."
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:52
|
|
|
Most games are actually QTEs because when you really think about it, you have to press a button at the right time to make your guy do stuff.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:53
|
|
|
If you think about it, life is just a QTE video game with no HUD or button prompts, no checkpoints, and only one save file.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
precision posted:Well I mean, quality is subjective and on a case by case basis. That's what I was getting at. There are good RTwP games and bad turn-based games, and vice versa. Neither system is inherently better. Actually, no. Any game that uses RTwP would benefit from either streamlining its actions and ditching the pause, or conforming its timetables to fit into turn-based systems. RTwP is an inherently crippled kludge
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
precision posted:Well I mean, quality is subjective and on a case by case basis. That's what I was getting at. There are good RTwP games and bad turn-based games, and vice versa. Neither system is inherently better. I'm just bummed out because I like Obsidian games otherwise but I just can't take the battle systems any more. It's either pathetically easy making combat just a waste of time or requires annoying micromanagement while also being very slow and unrewarding. Charliefoxtrot summarized my opinion on the matter pretty well, especially this part: CharlieFoxtrot posted:So what RTwP ends up becoming is a turn-based game with variable turn durations, an aspect that makes things more complicated while adding few interesting choices. It gives you the worst of both worlds by creating a gameplay experience that is both chaotic and difficult to manage while also being fiddly and slow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
EU4 uses RTwP and is... good
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:Of course, Destiny 2 is all guns all the time, it's basically an MMO right Destiny 2 has pretty much the best console ~gunfeel~ of all time and it's also basically an MMO and you have space magic powers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
CharlieFoxtrot posted:Actually, no. Any game that uses RTwP would benefit from either streamlining its actions and ditching the pause, or conforming its timetables to fit into turn-based systems. RTwP is an inherently crippled kludge Can you be a little less abstract? Like, exactly how would you change PoE type games to fit in this? Because I think I agree but it depends on what exact things you want to get rid of. I don't think simultaneity is inherently bad, but I also don't know if you're even talking about that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:59
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:That's the whole idea, you'd be solving crimes through the lens of whatever limited methodology was available to a learned European monk at the time. You could go the super scientific rational route, but you could also pray to St. Bartholomew Lord of Fingerprints for guidance and both paths would test your deductive reasoning skills. Isn't this just Cadfael? Was there ever a Cadfael game?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
I always liked the turn based system in phantom brave and thought it would work really well in a D&D type gameprecision posted:you say it's unfun but then you post .gifs that make it look super fun
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:That's the whole idea, you'd be solving crimes through the lens of whatever limited methodology was available to a learned European monk at the time. You could go the super scientific rational route, but you could also pray to St. Bartholomew Lord of Fingerprints for guidance and both paths would test your deductive reasoning skills. Does this mean I can go on literal witch hunts with no evidence? Because I would play it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:This is probably on a lot of people's wishlists but I'd love to play a murder mystery game set in medieval Europe, so while you use forensic evidence and good detective work to solve crimes, your suspects also have an even chance of being a witch or possessed by the devil. Witcher 3
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
precision posted:Can you be a little less abstract? Like, exactly how would you change PoE type games to fit in this? Because I think I agree but it depends on what exact things you want to get rid of. I don't think simultaneity is inherently bad, but I also don't know if you're even talking about that. OK, so the fun and challenge of a tactical game lies in the fact that you have a group of units with which you want to accomplish a goal, and you have a group of opposing units that oppose your goal, and the tactics unfold as such: you input a set of actions, your opponent counters with their actions, you counter with another set of actions, etc. Real-time games mix up the flow of actions so that you and your opponent are acting simultaneously with different action durations. Turn-based games have discrete time units where all actions are synchronized in terms of when they take effect. Good real-time games have a simple set of statistics and abilities on the field so that, with a small learning curve, a player can reasonably predict what they can do and what their opponent can do while under the pressure of having to manage things on the fly. Good turn-based games take advantage of the lack of time-pressure by giving an array of abilities that have complex interactions with each other, and the predictable time horizon of each turn means that the player can reasonably formulate what to do in a single turn, and what their opponent might do on their turn. Games like PoE have a lot of complexity. They have a lot of statistics and a lot of different abilities. This is not bad in itself, but it does mean that it is difficult to run at real time and feel like you have adequate control over things. For example, spellcasters have pages and pages of abilities, many of which are similar and only differ in slight ways or they're there because of a limited-use mechanic. In any case, they are better suited for a turn-based system where you can process all the different abilities and synchronizing their effects at the same time helps make them manageable. But PoE wants real-time, probably for verisimilitude in its combat simulation. This creates a lot of busywork when some characters like spellcasters have a much larger cognitive load than a warrior, but the auto-pause feature treats them both the same in terms of auto-pausing. MMOs have a comparable or higher level of ability/stat complexity, but you are managing one character and is thus feasible without pausing. In a real-time with pause system with a wide spread of complexity, much of the player's energy becomes devoting to managing the pausing and unpausing, which is fun in very few circumstances. Thus for something like PoE, streamlining the abilities of the characters and having their automation functions be good enough that you can issue broad commands in real time and also make interesting decisions in real time would be good. Or, on the other hand, conforming the abilities to turns and phases would make the current complexity level easier to process and also even leverage some of that complexity as it becomes bright-line clear who is going to move next, what you can do with the actions available to you before that other potential action happens, who can help set up an interesting attack for another character, etc. The in-between is just messy and the mess isn't something that adds fun to the tactical combat Jay Rust posted:EU4 uses RTwP and is... good That's actually great and my argument is undone. Actually maybe I just don't like PoE in particular. Just a bunch of models clumped up with low-frame animations and numbers popping up. I will limit my argument to the fact that RTwP is an inherently bad system specifically for D&D-style RPG combat
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
Okay yeah, I broadly agree. It's especially frustrating because rope kid has said he and others would prefer to do turn based combat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
Palpek posted:Arkanoid vs Space Invaders Ah beans, that's four bucks no thanks precision posted:you say it's unfun but then you post .gifs that make it look super fun I can't speak to Machinist, but FF14 is in fact fun! You should try it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 10:02 |
|
|
Dyz posted:Does this mean I can go on literal witch hunts with no evidence? Think LA Noire except instead of Truth Doubt Lie it's Reason, Witchcraft, Exorcize.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 21:02
|
|