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Oh, maybe he was trying to tell you to carry more entry speed. That said, just shouting things out as you're going down the track doesn't sound all that helpful. What always helped me most was the instructor giving me pointers on reference points for braking and letting me know to start early then push it later each lap, then silently sitting in the car with me for a couple of laps, going back in and giving me feedback when stopped. When I did the driver's courses at Mid-Ohio they never did that "go go go" or "brake brake brake" stuff, unless I guess you completely blew by a brake point and still had your foot planted.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:50
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But instructors are absolutely vital! Unrelatededly I gained 6.5ish seconds at Road America from first practice session to end of the second day. And dive bombing people under braking is the best.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:53
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I managed to drop a second over the course of the day by braking earlier. What I found was that I had a lot more control & was a lot smoother by braking slightly earlier and specifically not hammering on the brakes. The real benefit here was that I was able to bring my corner entry speed up progressively, rather than waiting until the very last second to brake and scrubbing too much speed off because 10km/h drops off really quickly. Also, it made for better trail braking as well. Bad autocross habits and all that.
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Sep 25, 2017 17:00
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KidDynamite posted:Holy crap Watkins Glen is loving amazing. What an incredible track to do my first HPDE at. I have so much to work on but the main thing that stuck out all weekend is instructor said I wasn't braking hard enough. I felt like when I did try and brake hard he would always say I overbroke. So I'm left a little confused as to how to proceed with getting braking right. As it can obviously go very wrong. Dude, you did great! I really hope you can do at least one full day at thunderbolt. Don't overthink it, you're brand new. I also had a fantastic time. Really tough/intimidating track and on 2 spots I actually would lose speed on the uphills as I have so little power  STILL SUPER FUN 
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Sep 25, 2017 17:33
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Did another trackday this weekend at Dominion Raceway in Virginia. Made a video from my fastest session (which is not fast generally but it was my PB at this circuit). Also my data capture stuff worked and I passed some fast cars which was neat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEVD_kGZjo
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Sep 25, 2017 18:35
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eriddy posted:Did another trackday this weekend at Dominion Raceway in Virginia. Made a video from my fastest session (which is not fast generally but it was my PB at this circuit). Also my data capture stuff worked and I passed some fast cars which was neat. What are you using for data? Some GPS thing on your phone with a bluetooth OBD2 dongle? What app, hardware, etc? Seems neat.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:18
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Larrymer posted:What are you using for data? Some GPS thing on your phone with a bluetooth OBD2 dongle? What app, hardware, etc? Seems neat. I have Harry's Laptimer (Grand Prix Edition) on my iphone that collects all the data and exports it later for overlay use. The sensors I use are a Kiwi3 bluetooth OBD dongle and an external bluetooth GPS (XGPS150). The OBD lets you get info like RPM, gear, boost, p much anything from the ECU. The external GPS gives you better position/speed data, though the iphones internal GPS is fine too. Those sensors feed into the laptimer app automatically and you can overlay videos using a program like Dashware that parses the laptimer data into gauges and stuff. Also, with the same data you can use more serious tools like Circuit Tools and get cool charts like this: https://imgur.com/a/dXvnw Figuring out the setup initially takes some time but at the track I need about 15 mins in the morning and then all I focus on is driving, everything else (data-wise) happens automatically.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:30
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What are the folks without cages or cross bars doing for go pro mounting where you can see yourself and the track? I have one of those headrest mounts but they are not legal for NASA.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:41
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KidDynamite posted:What are the folks without cages or cross bars doing for go pro mounting where you can see yourself and the track? I have one of those headrest mounts but they are not legal for NASA. Suction cups with tethers or clamp mounts that go directly on the cages/bars
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Sep 26, 2017 04:17
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Slightly crossposting but nobody reads my project thread anyway.  So, posted the gopro video from my races at Road America to YouTube. Some thoughts - Road America is awesome, coolshirts are amazing, doing racing where you can legit outbrake people is awesome, and the brakes on the car (NC MX-5) worked perfectly all weekend. I made some mistakes including an off both days, but nothing too serious, and it was my first and second race session on Road America so... I don't want to make mistakes like that, but a lot of people made a lot worse so I'm not beating myself up too hard. Lap times went from about 2:58.6 (plus or minus a tenth) during practice on Saturday to 2:52.0 during qualifying on Sunday, and a lot of my race laps were also in the 2:52-2:53 range... so again, I think I may pretty good progress. I mean, Spec Miata lap record is 2:43ish and the car should be able to run with them, so obviously I've got plenty of room to improve, but I'm still pretty new.Need to play with the car a little - the front's tucking under a bit in the carousel and stuff so need to see if we can get more front camber within the limits of the rules, and maybe put the rear bar to full hard. Also I really don't have a way around turn 3 and turn 14 that seems right; my exit speeds out of 14 are low enough that the fast Spec Miata guys were just running from me the whole front straight and I know for a fact I'm 25hp up on them at the wheels so it's me. Anyway, video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ICThZcj6ZU
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Sep 26, 2017 12:02
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Me dicking around a local-ish track with a dumb Civic with dumb brake bias. 1:47.91 and 1:48.27 on reallllly old street tires that were dug out of my basement the day before. (OG Rivals above the wear bars on the rear, and near slick Z1 star specs that sat for so long they were shiny in the front.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqCp-4dmQO4
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Sep 26, 2017 16:04
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That makes me want to get another gopro
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Sep 26, 2017 16:14
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Ziploc posted:Me dicking around a local-ish track with a dumb Civic with dumb brake bias. Where do you have the footwell camera set up? That's a great angle to watch.
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Sep 26, 2017 21:03
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Nice saves and heel-toes and occasional giggles
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Sep 26, 2017 21:29
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Thanks guys. Foot camera is a really old Sony Cybershot P93 or something. Decent low light, low profile, and 480p recording. I stick it as close to the steering column as I can. There's usually some way using the contours of the under dash I can get it angled the right way. You can get an idea of it's shape here:  I have a pedal box mount in all my cars using a DriftHD adhesive mount. Low profile tripod screw mount.  https://www.amazon.com/Drift-30-003...S8TKS8AMRXQ2A88 Examples of my other layouts stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmdFf1pR_Mc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2baFdhb5Cg4 While data is useful, I find that watching where I'm looking, where I'm putting my hands, and what I'm doing with my feet very important. Hand discipline on the wheel is very important to me.
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Sep 27, 2017 14:39
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Let me tell you, his hand discipline is top notch. 
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Sep 27, 2017 18:44
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How does autocross compare to doing trackdays? I've done a few dozen trackdays by now and never tried autocross. Is it hard to learn the course? What kinda skills/ability do really good autocross drivers have?
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Sep 28, 2017 06:06
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eriddy posted:How does autocross compare to doing trackdays? I've done a few dozen trackdays by now and never tried autocross. Is it hard to learn the course? What kinda skills/ability do really good autocross drivers have? It's a lot less exciting in my opinion. I mostly use it to test out any mods I made in the winter before track season. Not to say it isn't fun, but you don't get anywhere near the feeling of speed you get in a track and the techniques for a good lap time are quite different, I feel like there's less room for error in autocross because everything is in a much smaller scale. Also it's murder on your suspension and brakes. It is a lot safer though. You're going slower and going off course means you hit a cone and you're in a different part of a parking lot most of the time. If you're near lime rock, they actually have a paved course in the infield which is like a mini track for this. It's fun!
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Sep 28, 2017 11:19
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Also it's $50 for like 4 minutes of "track" time. Compared to $300 for a couple of hours of track time it's rather expensive, that's really why I'm not too interested in it.
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Sep 28, 2017 11:34
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Dave Inc. posted:Also it's $50 for like 4 minutes of "track" time. Compared to $300 for a couple of hours of track time it's rather expensive, that's really why I'm not too interested in it. At lime rock you get significantly more time because they limit the whole thing to 20 people or something low and give you like 2 hours of practice time before your timed laps. It's the best deal in auto x; I swear I'm not a shill.
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Sep 28, 2017 11:40
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Gigi Galli posted:Also it's murder on your suspension and brakes. uh... ok?
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Sep 28, 2017 12:40
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Lol at autocross being hard on brakes. Not compared to track time.
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Sep 28, 2017 12:43
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eriddy posted:How does autocross compare to doing trackdays? I've done a few dozen trackdays by now and never tried autocross. Is it hard to learn the course? What kinda skills/ability do really good autocross drivers have? Learning the course is probably the most different skill from track days. You walk it in the morning and have maybe 6 attempts at it total. Getting good at eyeballing a corner and going through it anywhere near the limit on your first pass is tricky and takes practice. The time to dollar ratio post was correct but I would give even more weight to spending all day in a parking lot for 5-6 minutes of fun. It is a good intro for new people, fun to take friends to and scare them safely, and a good way to really push a car you're not willing to risk at the track.
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Sep 28, 2017 13:21
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With autocross you get to bullshit with more car folk in a parking lot and get sunburned.
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Sep 28, 2017 13:26
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Gigi Galli posted:It's a lot less exciting in my opinion. I dunno if I agree with that. At autocross, no one really knows the layout. And you are generally improvising each run to get the car through things as fast as possible. Very transition heavy. Different elements coming at you all the time. You better know how to wheel your car and be insanely accurate right out of the gate if you want to be at the pointy end. I relate track driving to a choreography. Since after the 2nd track day, you're going to be making really small changes to your line and your inputs. Brake here, turn here, track out here, etc. Whereas autocross rewards more improvising and lots of fast movements. I feel like someone will learn more about car control from 10 autocrosses than they might from 2 track days. Which might cost the same. At autocross gently caress ups happen constantly. And everyone is experimenting and learning both the course and/or the car. Spins are fine, demolishing cones are fine, off courses are fine. But at the track, offs are pretty discouraged, spins will sometimes have you pulled off. Not to mention the speed at which you can have the offs/spins. So I feel like people stay within the safety envelope a bit more at track days. I average about 20 autocrosses a year and lately have averaged about 4-8 track days a year. These are my opinions. You might disagree with them.  Larrymer posted:With autocross you get to bullshit with more car folk in a parking lot and get sunburned. And that.
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Sep 28, 2017 15:05
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Ziploc posted:I relate track driving to a choreography. Since after the 2nd track day, you're going to be making really small changes to your line and your inputs. Brake here, turn here, track out here, etc. That's all per track. Every track is at the least a new and exciting start from scratch.
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Sep 28, 2017 15:10
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I started with autocross and I feel like the best thing it works is vision and looking ahead. It seems to have given me some bad habits of making jerky inputs, but that's probably because I'm still new to driving fast in general. I've only had my focus rs for a year and a couple of months. Sad thing is I could have definitely started doing this back when I first got my license in 2004 by just buying a civic instead of being a snob about what I drove. Ironically I now want a honda that I can make into a track only car.
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Sep 28, 2017 15:13
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Autocross is a perfect entry to motorsports/performance driving because the barrier is so low and the skills are useful to have in your toolbox. The part about standing around all day and getting sunburn is true, and so is completely being terrible because autocross is a learned skill that you can't rely on intuition at all. It's a load of fun starting off, but once you hit the track for the first time or do wheel-to-wheel, it dramatically changes your expectations. So getting back to autocross, it is largely improvisation and making snap judgments to the best of your ability. Being able to read the course and adapt are things that come with experience and doing some real hard thinking about what you're doing. You only get a handful of tries, so maximizing every aspect of data ingestion and putting it into perspective is what pushes you past the middle of the pack. There's a lot going on and you need to have a good fundamental understanding of what you and your car can do, and also what you can safely ignore. People who autocross and transition to track initially have "fast hands" and want to early apex ever single corner (because that's what's fast at autocross). You have to unlearn some habits; however, you'll always have them in your back pocket. I've been out on track and the car will get squirrelly on a corner exit, and knowing what to do when the car is unsettled and how to get it under control will come out of the toolbox and I'll get the car pointed straight again. Other people in the same group who don't have the same autocross background might wind up with a tank slapper or will just spin straight off of the track. The two skills that do transfer over to every aspect of driving (pedestrian or otherwise) is car placement and LOOKING AHEAD. It's a real pain in the rear end to train yourself to look up and out, and whenever I do novice ride alongs I tell them that it doesn't really matter what's 6 feet in front of their bumper because you can't do anything about it; there are no inputs you can do at that point to change the trajectory of the car. As for what autocross MURDERS on your car, like maybe tires if you're on a car with struts and maybe transmissions if you beat the gently caress out of it and are crunching the synchros on 2->1 shifts. It's more liable to destroy your wallet if you get serious about going to Nats.
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Sep 28, 2017 15:36
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Dave Inc. posted:Also it's $50 for like 4 minutes of "track" time. Compared to $300 for a couple of hours of track time it's rather expensive, that's really why I'm not too interested in it. This. I can't justify using up my Saturday or Sunday for a few minutes of fun. I'd rather pay $500 and get literal HOURS of track time, often with an instructor in the car. And I can practice the track over and over versus it changing regularly. I did autox when I was 16 and broke. I'm 32 now... I have a lot less free time than I do money. Track time always.
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Sep 28, 2017 17:46
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I think beginners should do a couple autox just to start out. It's $50 for not that much time, but it's still only $50 for any time at all. Compared to not having that environment to drive in. There's plenty of 16 and broke kids out there (maybe not on this forum any more).
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Sep 28, 2017 17:53
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kimbo305 posted:I think beginners should do a couple autox just to start out. It's $50 for not that much time, but it's still only $50 for any time at all. Compared to not having that environment to drive in. I'd agree with this. Afterwards, track day(s) bro. Track requires a little more car work like swapping brake fluid and pads, autocross is the most entry level thing you can do with no work required which is good for beginners.
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Sep 28, 2017 18:32
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Phone posted:uh... ok? I get way more uneven wear on my brakes from autocross than from tracks. Obviously you eat up way more pad on a real track.
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Sep 28, 2017 18:37
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I use OEM stock pads at autocrosses and they seem to be fine. I suppose it depends on the power and the weight of the car.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:21
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Human Grand Prix posted:I use OEM stock pads at autocrosses and they seem to be fine. I suppose it depends on the power and the weight of the car. Not sure if this is in reference to what I said, but generally you don't need to do any pad swapping for autocross. Not the same is true for track days.
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Sep 28, 2017 19:29
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That is true, you absolutely need dedicated pads/fluid for track use. I've seen people swap in pads like the Carbotech AX6 for autocross events but I've never seen the need to. My cars have less that 160hp and are relatively lightweight.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:27
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Around here it is 20€ for a day on track. It seems that trackdays are serious and expensive in the US. Typically everything else is more expensive here.
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Sep 28, 2017 22:29
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DoLittle posted:Around here it is 20€ for a day on track. It seems that trackdays are serious and expensive in the US. Typically everything else is more expensive here. For what quality of track, how much instruction, and for how much track time? It's between $200-300/day for world-class circuits here in the Northeast. That's for four 20 minute sessions and instruction. Edit: The track you linked in that video where you were on your sunday drive is not a place I think that would stay open in the US. Think F1 level. I was at Watkins Glen last weekend and will be at VIR next weekend. Blaise fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 22:39
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I’d rather slide around an industrial estate in the middle of the night than do auto cross I think. I spoke to a few yanks when I was at the ring who were making it sound as if it was equivalent to running an lmp1 car in lm24 of something and it pissed me off so much I’ve decided it’s fhe CrossFit of cars. I’m off to the ring in just over a week and I am absolutely hype. I also think I may have found the biggest bargain in fia seats and will tell you guys about them when I fit them this weekend.
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Sep 28, 2017 22:58
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oh? Cheaper than the Sparcos from Murray Motorsports?
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Sep 28, 2017 23:04
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Bape Culture posted:I’d rather slide around an industrial estate in the middle of the night than do auto cross I think. Is it bimarco?
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Sep 29, 2017 02:18
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