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Grammarchist posted:CBO preliminary analysis seems to be up. "All told, federal spending on Medicaid would be reduced by about $1 trillion over the 2017–2026 period under this legislation, and the program would cover millions fewer enrollees." Get hosed GOP.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:41
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Not to be "that guy", but isn't it a bit early to say this is dead? I'll believe when the turtle fuckface calls the vote off.
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Sep 26, 2017 00:56
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I'll believe it's dead if and when we flip the House next year, and not a moment sooner. Edit: And if we don't flip the house, lube your rear end in a top hat for what's coming next, because the GOP will likely have 4-5+ more seats in the Senate to play with.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:08
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Yeah, really hoping Murkowski announces soon as well so I don't have to worry about McCain dying and being replaced with a yes man.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:17
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Grammarchist posted:Yeah, really hoping Murkowski announces soon as well so I don't have to worry about McCain dying and being replaced with a yes man. Yeah, dying under mysterious non brain cancer cirumstances ; ) Maybe that will happen later. My imagination for the oligarchy over the next decades includes paramilitaries storming the private estates of Senators and threatening their lives, poisonings, etc.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:20
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It's dead Jim.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:33
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It's dead Jim. Everyone was making hay out of the bribes for Murkowski and Collins, but the fact that the revised bill also included last minute bribes for Ohio (Portman) and West Virginia (Capito) make it questionable how alive the bill ever actually was. If Lee, Cruz, Capito, and Portman were all soft nos at this late date, that puts the bill at a maximum of 44 pledged Yes votes, if not fewer.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:45
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I want all the assholes who a week ago (and a month before that and a month before that) who were going "well this bill is as good as passed, no hope, kill yourselves" to come eat crow. Again.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:48
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:The only thing that could have made this better is for Susan Collins to have held off releasing this for three hours so I could screenshot the BREAKING NEWS chyron in the Sander/Graham debate. that didn't stop CNN from running BREAKING NEWS HEALTH CARE BILL IN JEOPADY, 3 GOP SENATORS OPPOSED right at the top of the debate before introducing a very glum looking Graham and Cassidy, and a very smug looking Klobuchar and Sanders.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:01
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Bernie had a great opening holy poo poo.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:05
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viral spiral posted:Bernie had a great opening holy poo poo. how badly is he dunking on them? i'm watching the cowboys and cardinals flail about aimlessly
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Sep 26, 2017 02:36
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/912487929783754755 
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Sep 26, 2017 02:39
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Where can I watch the debate? The stream isn't working.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:40
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https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/912491688765149184 These guys suck.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:44
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axeil posted:how badly is he dunking on them? i'm watching the cowboys and cardinals flail about aimlessly Bernie and Graham got into it pretty good. I thought Bernie and Cassidy were gonna get into a brawl.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:58
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The New York Times has its own, more recent take on the donors-dry-up facing the GOP senators dated last Friday, after McCain's declared opposition:quote:WASHINGTON — As more than 40 subdued Republican senators lunched on Chick-fil-A at a closed-door session last week, Senator Cory Gardner of Colorado painted a dire picture for his colleagues. Campaign fund-raising was drying up, he said, because of widespread disappointment among donors over the inability of the Republican Senate to repeal the Affordable Care Act or do much of anything else. quote:Republicans say the fund-raising drop-off has been steep and across the board, from big donations to the small ones the party solicits online from the grass roots. They say the hostile views of both large and small donors are in unusual alignment and that the negative sentiment is crystallized in the fund-raising decline.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:19
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Rich fuckwads who have profited ridiculously from regressive Republican policies withholding money from Republicans because those Republicans have been unable to take health care away from poor people who continually have more and more of the fruits of their labour taken from them by said same fuckwads. I honestly would like to vomit right now.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:24
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I want all the assholes who a week ago (and a month before that and a month before that) who were going "well this bill is as good as passed, no hope, kill yourselves" to come eat crow. Again. They didn't last time, they won't this time.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:25
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:no hope, kill yourselves" What is with you and this line?
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Sep 26, 2017 03:27
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If you're right wing attacking a position from the left isn't a fantastic tactic when your opponent is actually left wing.
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Sep 26, 2017 04:47
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The debate felt primitive. Like, how is this contentious? How is this our culture?
Accretionist fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 05:03
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GreyjoyBastard posted:They didn't last time, they won't this time. I don't know, I wanna give some slack to people who are freaking out over their healthcare potentially being taken away, as long as that freak-out is channeled into activism. You can't seriously expect people depending on Medicaid to live to have a finger on the pulse of the moderate Republicans in the Senate and Rand loving Paul.
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Sep 26, 2017 07:20
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Accretionist posted:The debate felt primitive. Like, how is this contentious? How is this our culture? Hundreds of years of poor education and American myth-making about individualism, exceptionalism, superiority of common-sense and predestination. Don't need to improve if you're the best around, nothing's ever going to bring me down... etc. America is fundamentally anti-intellectual.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:17
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Isn't allowing the importation of drugs and opening up more competition in tune with the supposed spirit of the Free Market and meritocracy? I guess only if it benefits those in positions of power/wealth, which it wouldn't.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:24
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From reading up on reconciliation today it appears fairly likely that Republicans can give it a shot again in 2018. Reconciliation instructions are done by committee: you instruct a particular committee to find a certain amount savings, and then lo and behold they produce them by writing the bill you always planned on. The key thing here is that the committee that does tax policy and that mostly does health care is the same committee, so the instructions that will be given can be used for tax cuts, repeal, or both. So they do have the option of trying both, failing, then taking out Obamacare repeal and passing just tax cuts. They also apparently have the option of using the 2019 bill. They'd have to pass the 2018 bill first, so this would land right smack in the midterms as they try to pass another bill with, presumably, 20% public approval while they're campaigning for re-election. That sounds like a dumb idea. So I would expect to see this fight continue in 2018, and I would expect that it derails tax cuts for a while but then faces some test vote, gets pulled out, and they continue with tax cuts. Maybe they'll try the 2019 bill but my guess is they will set it up but not actually try to pass it right before midterms and either hope to get a better Senate in 2019, or just go gently caress it and try to pass it in the lame duck.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:24
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Hundreds of years of poor education and American myth-making about individualism, exceptionalism, superiority of common-sense and predestination. Don't need to improve if you're the best around, nothing's ever going to bring me down... etc. America is fundamentally anti-intellectual. The media is also poo poo and refuses to challenge people in power for fear of losing access to them. Part of me wonders if one big problem with "The Media" is also that half of the talking heads just aren't smart enough to realize they're being constantly lied to.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:25
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Xae posted:The media is also poo poo and refuses to challenge people in power for fear of losing access to them. they know they're being lied to but the thing is that the 20 year campaign against the "liberal media" has made it so they don't like to have opinions of their own and "he said, she said" is a great way to avoid taking a stand and not get tarred as the ~liberal media~ basically, republicans have been working the refs for a very long time and it's worked.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:26
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Xae posted:Part of me wonders if one big problem with "The Media" is also that half of the talking heads just aren't smart enough to realize they're being constantly lied to. The problem is that they make too much money and are no longer in touch with the common person.
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Sep 26, 2017 15:42
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Consumer media is worthless because they've fired all their subject area experts and replaced them with idiots who churn out hot takes in order to get viewers. The actual good reporting on the GOP's attempt to repeal ACA, from people who know what they are talking about, is paywalled. And that's how you get CNN screaming that GCHJ is definitely going to pass and your grandmother is going to DIE up until yesterday while the healthcare industry had largely moved on to speculation about repeal inclusion in the 2018 reconciliation bill. Or even 2019.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:05
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WampaLord posted:The problem is that they make too much money and are no longer in touch with the common person. no, journalists are not generally making too much money are you loving insane
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Sep 26, 2017 16:08
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evilweasel posted:no, journalists are not generally making too much money are you loving insane By "The Media" I figured he was talking about mainly talking heads on cable, not investigative journalists doing real work.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:11
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evilweasel posted:but the thing is that the 20 year campaign against the "liberal media" has made it so they don't like to have opinions of their own and "he said, she said" is a great way to avoid taking a stand and not get tarred as the ~liberal media~ The Republicans tar even the most timid, "both sides" journalists as "the liberal media." They say such poo poo about NPR, which really is the most anodyne radio station - always trying to see the perspectives of both left and right.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:16
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Iirc you can already import small amounts of medicine legally from countries like India (I get two ventolins a year for $10 plus $10 shipping), most people are squeamish about buying medicine from India or china because it must be fake/substandard quality. Meanwhile Walmart sources its dollar generics from Indian giants like cipla and dr. reddy and slaps a familiar and friendly American name in it so people trust it.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:19
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importing drugs is not about lower manufacturing costs abroad, it's about taking advantage of price controls in those countries the problem is, it's trivial for companies to effectively block it by restricting the amount of that drug they send to the country
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Sep 26, 2017 16:21
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https://twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/912699939213516804
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Sep 26, 2017 16:30
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Using the fiscal 19 budget for healthcare seems uh...ambitious. Won't they potentially have lost the House and/or Senate at that point?
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Sep 26, 2017 16:50
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axeil posted:Using the fiscal 19 budget for healthcare seems uh...ambitious. Won't they potentially have lost the House and/or Senate at that point? No, FY19 would be in the middle of 2018. Also, there is no reasonable scenario where Democrats take the Senate in 2018.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:51
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evilweasel posted:From reading up on reconciliation today it appears fairly likely that Republicans can give it a shot again in 2018. Reconciliation instructions are done by committee: you instruct a particular committee to find a certain amount savings, and then lo and behold they produce them by writing the bill you always planned on. The key thing here is that the committee that does tax policy and that mostly does health care is the same committee, so the instructions that will be given can be used for tax cuts, repeal, or both. So they do have the option of trying both, failing, then taking out Obamacare repeal and passing just tax cuts. Brings up an interesting idea, if you stand to lose your majorities, you can spoil the next congresses reconciliation in a lame duck session before they take their seats. Doesn't even have to do anything, just some random committee finds a dollar savings. Wrapping an ACA repeal into their tax cuts is just evil enough for Republicans to love it but I can see it spoiling the usual handful of Republican senator's votes. I can only assume it will be another BCRA situation. Ryan just passes something or anything in the House. McConnell jettisons all the language and gets a regressive supergroup together to find better ways to kill poor people through tax policy.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:53
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axeil posted:Using the fiscal 19 budget for healthcare seems uh...ambitious. Won't they potentially have lost the House and/or Senate at that point? Actually that's probably part of the strategy. Pushing terrible and unpopular legislation is so much easier when your party knows it won't pass and everyone just wants the optics of fulfilling electoral promises.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:55
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:No, FY19 would be in the middle of 2018. That's even stupider. What sane person thinks trying to pass a bill with ~20% approval right before elections is a good idea? Re: the Senate I am holding out hope for taking out Dirty Dean Heller + Jeff Flake + Lamar Alexander/Ted Cruz/Roy Moore.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:58
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