|
JediTalentAgent posted:That's a thing, too. Black Mask and Penguin sort of operate in more mob-style of supercriminals that run Gotham. Folks like Two-Face, Joker, Riddler, Ivy, etc. never really feel like those aspects of crime come into play. Honestly I'd be behind this as a reasonably long term story; The joker takes over mob after mob, driving out the other bosses as a ruthless and organised crime boss. Eventually he controls 99% of the crime in gotham. No gimmicks to his mob, they arent dressed as clowns, they dont pull themed heists. The joker still dresses like the joker, and is still personally a scary and unpredictable motherfucker, but it manifests itself in breathtaking personal acts of violence and actual cunning criminal heists that get everyone very rich rather than taunting batman with slapstick and acid flowers. You could definately get some good milage out of "whats his angle, wheres the joke going to come". As an ending I would prefer that one day the joker just up and disappears. After a long arc of him climbing the ladder, fighting tooth and nail and baseball bat with nails in it to get and keep control of crime in gotham, refining gothams criminal organisations into a ticking machine with him at the helm, he has finally achieved what he set out to do, and with this power behind him... he just walks away an gives up the whole thing without a word. Thats his punchline; Its an anti-joke, a shaggy dog story. No soap, radio! This has (to me) several advantages; You can tell some interesting stories with the joker subduing other crime lords in gotham. You can then tell stories of batman fighting back against a competently run criminal organisation with the joker running it. You then tell stories of the empire crumbling as various people step up to try and take over (unsuccessfully) and various factions splinter back off. Also it gives the character and gimmick of the joker a rest as you change it substantially for the rise and have him disappear for the fall. When its had a bit of a rest have him come back as whatever version of the character you need and simply have him refuse to even acknowledge that he was ever in charge. Leave the door open; Was it a lucid period thats over now, was it a new madness that has passed, was it actually an imposter or is this still part of the joke? (nb literally never actually answer that question. Much like the jokers origin its better unanswered) Edit; poo poo, this is PYF, not BSS. Sorry! To try and get vaguely on topic uh... It bugged me in suicide squad that they made such a big deal of the baddies being impervious to bullets in literally the same scene that deadshot starts killing them with bullets. No "they have a weak spot" handwave or anything, just "the soldiers are getting wiped out, bullets are useless!" immediately followed by will smith killing a thousand of them with his bullets. But then thats not that irrational because that movie was a bullshit waste of a halfway decent cast. SiKboy has a new favorite as of 18:16 on Sep 25, 2017 |
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 12:46 |
|
|
Probably the wrong thread, but the talk of Gotham mobs still makes me think a 'henchman' themed GTA kind of game sounds like it would be fun if you set it in the Batman universe. You start out as a low-ranking recruit in a mob and through the course of the game you gradually move your way through working for various criminals and then supercriminals and build your reputation, money, resources until you eventually find yourself being the boss of your own gang of recruits with your own gimmick and costumed identity. Sure, in the end you finally got arrested, beaten up by Batman, your assets seized... but you're no longer a nobody, you're a notorious supercriminal who has the respect of your peers at Arkham. (Alternate ending: You did what you wanted to do. You're getting out while you're ahead. You've made your money, avoided the Bat, you're getting the next plane out of Gotham and leaving all this behind you. It's Gotham, they've got enough costumed weirdos and criminals running around, it's not like they're going to miss one.) JediTalentAgent has a new favorite as of 18:17 on Sep 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
They really need to make a supervillain crime sandbox. Saint's Row got close but kinda skipped a few steps and got tonally vague.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 18:18
|
|
|
I think I've mentioned this about Rogue One in another thread, but it probably fits here as well: Jyn's pro-Rebellion speech just didn't work for me in that film. It seems like was an impassioned argument that Mon Mothma should have been making that FINALLY swayed Jyn to her side rather than Jyn sort of coming off like she's just repeating another character.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 18:23
|
|
|
General comic book and movie pet peeve: a cycle of constantly recycling plots so there will never be anything cool or different or interesting besides origin stories and story plots we've seen before. It's not just constantly rebooting spiderman either. Just make a movie of green lantern beating up some baddies and maybe have some cameos of "yo poo poo idk what's going on with this weird happening, any thoughts window woman / batman / ???"
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:17
|
|
|
JediTalentAgent posted:I think I've mentioned this about Rogue One in another thread, but it probably fits here as well: Jyn's pro-Rebellion speech just didn't work for me in that film. It seems like was an impassioned argument that Mon Mothma should have been making that FINALLY swayed Jyn to her side rather than Jyn sort of coming off like she's just repeating another character. It bugged me that Porkins wasn't in the movie. And yeah that speech was just poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:25
|
|
|
JediTalentAgent posted:I think I've mentioned this about Rogue One in another thread, but it probably fits here as well: Jyn's pro-Rebellion speech just didn't work for me in that film. It seems like was an impassioned argument that Mon Mothma should have been making that FINALLY swayed Jyn to her side rather than Jyn sort of coming off like she's just repeating another character. Jyn's characterization got dramatically changed by doing a bunch of rushed reshoots and it really shows
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
I think a fun idea for a Joker movie would be to have him come out of nowhere, starting really small and working up, finally getting Batman's attention. Then he slowly starts ramping up more and more and each crime changes wildly; Batman can't figure out his angle except there seems to be a clown theme. Finally, with a threat to destroy Gotham, Batman finds and faces this Joker one on one. News cameras start circling as reporters start wondering about what horrible thing is going to happen. Is it the bombs Batman found? Gas he detected? That weird-rear end zeppelin he has for some reason? Who knows?! Batman advances towards the Joker to stop him and triggers a pressure plate. It releases a gigantic fart. It's revealed that the Joker never actually hurt anyone, it was all actors and gags. The victims were all in on it. The joke was always on Batman. Batman leaves, furious. In the final scene it cuts to the climax from a chopper's point of view. Clark Kent is smugly grinning at finally getting one over on that self-serious rear end in a top hat Batman as a flashback shows Superman helping the Joker pull the gag off. RBA Starblade has a new favorite as of 19:58 on Sep 25, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
I've always wanted a mastermind billionaire character who dedicates a large amount of resources to just loving with Batman. Never does anything quite illegal. Same goes for Iron Man and Reed Richards. Just knock em down a peg.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:04
|
|
|
The Riddler, but without the crimes?
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
Schubalts posted:The Riddler, but without the crimes? Pretty much. Batman comes busting in to a warehouse to break up a drug ring, beats up all these super jacked tattooed henchmen. Turns out it's a pharmaceutical warehouse with a program of hiring ex cons.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
I always like when stories remember that besides being incredibly violent and unpredictable, the Joker is still just a guy. Like in BTAS when he cuts a guy off in traffic and the guy yells at him from his car. The Joker takes offense, and the guy realises just how hosed he now is. The Joker makes him a deal - one day, he will call on him to do something for him, and he'd better answer. Then he just... doesn't. The guy ends up in a severe panic for months waiting for the penny to drop, until eventually he snaps, and this happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8C4-SrlptE
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
Push El Burrito posted:Pretty much. Batman comes busting in to a warehouse to break up a drug ring, beats up all these super jacked tattooed henchmen. Turns out it's a pharmaceutical warehouse with a program of hiring ex cons. Sounds like something Booster Gold would fall for.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
There were some interesting one-shot comics that I enjoyed, although one of them got a little grim-dark, they were interesting takes at some of the Batman villains. The Joker's Asylum stories, where the framing device is that he tells you an anecdote about each of the characters from within his cell. The ones I read were Harley Quinn, Jervis Tetch and Edward Nigma. Jervis had an interesting idea, where he was actually improving enough that the asylum released him for good behaviour (or something), and it shows him holding down a job, generally functioning in society, behaving. Certainly he still prefers tea and likes hats, but you can't begrudge a dude his tastes. The problems inevitably start when he meets a young blonde girl and it triggers his fixation again, and he begins to stalk her. Eventually the situation escalates to kidnapping and an accidental death, and in a panic after coming to his senses he hides the body. In a cupboard with other bodies. This isn't the first time he's relapsed and likely won't be the last.. That's the one I feel goes a little too grim, although nowhere near as bad as the idiot interns that Rocksteady get to write their character stories. Harley Quinn's was cute. Most of the time, she behaves in the asylum, happy to while away the hours handing with Pamela and the others, swapping gardening tips and gossiping and all that, but one day, she can't help herself. Valentines Day! Of course she breaks out, because the Joker did a bit ago, and while she was fine without him this is the one day she wants to be there beside him. When the Joker inevitably gets recaptured, Harley happily returns to the asylum under her own power, because she just wants to be with her Puddin, wherever he happens to be.  The Riddler's was the most interesting, because he got screwed by his own compulsion in the worst possible way. He meets a young woman who he fancies and begins to pursue, he starts meeting her friends and learning about her through social media, that sort of thing. More obsessively than most of course, but he really wants her to be his, and over time she does grow to like him. Eventually, Nigma works up the courage to propose, and then the situation destroys him. As soon as she says Yes, he loses interest and has no idea why, he starts obsessing about that, then he realises. His heart wasn't in love with her, his mind was. He really thought it was the real deal, but he really only fell for her when she was unavailable to him - she had become a Riddle for him to solve - as soon as he "worked out" how to get her to love him, the riddle was solved and he just... stopped. She doesn't understand what happened, he doesn't understand what happened. His mental illness has started doing what he never considered it would do - it has started to get in the way of his everyday life. That last one is my favourite of the series, it's seriously kind of heartbreaking.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
Jervis Tetch is also known as The Mad Hatter, in case anyone was wondering who he was or why a young blonde girl might set him off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2017 23:52
|
|
|
Is it rational to be irritated at this turning into a fanfiction thread?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
ubachung posted:Is it rational to be irritated at this turning into a fanfiction thread? I'm with you, but that doesn't say much for rationality
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 00:47
|
|
BioEnchanted posted:The Joker makes him a deal - one day, he will call on him to do something for him, and he'd better answer. Then he just... doesn't. The guy ends up in a severe panic for months waiting for the penny to drop, until eventually he snaps, and this happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8C4-SrlptE Maybe I'm getting episodes mixed up, but I thought the guy changed his name and moved away from Gotham, but years later the Joker tracked him down anyways and used him in a small part in a plan to blow up Commissioner Gordon on his birthday. The episode still ends with him snapping though.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 02:16
|
|
|
It had been a while so I'd forgotten the setup to that one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 04:35
|
|
|
value-brand cereal posted:General comic book and movie pet peeve: a cycle of constantly recycling plots so there will never be anything cool or different or interesting besides origin stories and story plots we've seen before. Same goes for the villains. You can actually have a villain show in your standalone movie that the hero is already familiar with. It doesn't always have to be "whoa, who is this crazy guy the likes of which no one has ever seen before?" We don't need to see Otto Octavius working as a legitimate scientist until one day when everything goes wrong and he staples some robot tentacles to his back. Just have Doctor Octopus show up and start wrecking poo poo. The audience will get it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 05:12
|
|
|
I'm not sure I totally agree. Depends on the hero I think. I'm watching Jessica Jones and am a little annoyed at how little I know about how she got her powers; which appear to basically be "good at throwing people" I like the show but if they explained her power set/origin, I missed it. I know more about Kilgrave and am on ep 8 or thereabouts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:02
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:I'm not sure I totally agree. Depends on the hero I think. I'm watching Jessica Jones and am a little annoyed at how little I know about how she got her powers; which appear to basically be "good at throwing people" The most explanation is basically "there was an accident"
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:16
|
|
|
The Jessica Jones show is about her life after retiring from the superhero business so I like that she doesn't get into it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:21
|
|
|
I recall reading that half the reason the X-Men exist is because they wanted a quick and easy way to have superheroes and supervillains without need of an origin story justification, so they can just say 'they're a mutant'. Villain origin stories aren't quite as overdone as hero ones if only because there's generally more villains, so you don't have to adapt the same ones every time. Depends on exactly how they do it, of course. I'm still amazed that Homecoming managed to make the Vulture really interesting and make his name entirely fitting. Though I may just be a sucker for the garage X-COM dealio.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:29
|
|
|
Mu Zeta posted:The Jessica Jones show is about her life after retiring from the superhero business so I like that she doesn't get into it. The comic is about that. In the show she was never a superhero.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:49
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:The comic is about that. In the show she was never a superhero. She did have a brief stint wandering around throwing criminals though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:52
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:The comic is about that. In the show she was never a superhero. Doesn't she talk with her sister about the brief time she was fighting crime and how it didn't end up well?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:54
|
|
|
Mu Zeta posted:Doesn't she talk with her sister about the brief time she was fighting crime and how it didn't end up well? Yeah she did try to be a vigilante and its only stated it went poorly. Its a major reason shes such a cynic about super heroes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:59
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:We really don't need to see how Peter became Spider-Man. Everyone understands the concept of super heroes. You say this, but then head over to reddit where people are posting dumbass theories about how uncle Ben was never shot by a mugger, he was collateral damage when aliens attacked the city way before Peter got his powers. So yea, the most significant formative event that makes Spider-Man who he is (aside from his powers) apparently goes up for debate if you don't explicitly execute an old man on screen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:01
|
|
|
Mu Zeta posted:Doesn't she talk with her sister about the brief time she was fighting crime and how it didn't end up well? Trish keeps trying to convince her to become a superhero and help people. She mostly does things like save people from car accidents and stop muggers. It's more like a good samaritan with super strength than superheroics. That doesn't last too long before Kilgrave takes control of her though. In the comic she straight up had a name and costume and everything.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:03
|
|
|
I always thought the Blade movie handled the origin story pretty well: few lines of dialogue part way through explaining that he's half vampire, which of their strengths and weaknesses he has and how Whistler met him.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:24
|
|
|
I liked how Jessica Jones' powers didn't manifest themselves via martial arts. I don't think she threw even a single kick, all she ever did was throw or punch people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:32
|
|
|
I decided to re-watch Wild Wild West yesterday and it's a very strange movie. It was obviously a Wild Wild West reboot first, then Will Smith signed on to star, and then it became a Will Smith movie. But that leaves it with the awkward situation where it's an action movie for children designed to sell toys which all of a sudden has to deal with the fact that it's about the adventures of a black lawman in the Deep South in the 1870s. There's a few bits and pieces here and there which go into it; it's not quite an action movie version of Song of the South but that's probably where some its tone problems come from. It reminds me a lot of 1994's The Shadow with Alec Baldwin, which to me has always felt like it must surely have started as a very different and probably darker movie until someone decided it should be another Batman '89 and sell toys. Another point is that this movie cost more to make than Terminator 2, Jurassic Park, Men In Black and even Phantom Menace but it looks worse than all of those movies. It cost more than Batman and Robin and at least that movie, whatever else you can say about it, has a distinctive look. There's one scene where Jim West (Will Smith) is swapping insults with Dr Loveless (Kenneth Branagh, whose performance is both ridiculous and one of the highlights of the film) which boils down to "Haha! You're black!" and "Haha! You're disabled!" It's almost like if Tarantino made a PG movie for kids.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:44
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:I liked how Jessica Jones' powers didn't manifest themselves via martial arts. I don't think she threw even a single kick, all she ever did was throw or punch people. She even complains that she's the only person that doesn't know karate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 17:04
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:
The Shadow is such a weird movie, I'm always surprised almost no one remembers it. It has a really dark scene where the villain mentally commands an innocent security guard to shoot himself in the head, and also contains a scene where the hero and villain playfully discuss ties. Also Tim Curry chewing the scenery like a guy...who...likes to chew stuff. Sorry can't come up with a good chewing scenery joke.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 17:28
|
|
|
Push El Burrito posted:She even complains that she's the only person that doesn't know karate. Which kinda falls flat when you put JJ next to Luke Cage in the Defenders, who just bodyslams motherfuckers left and right. They do a decent enough job of showing how a big dude with super strength and invulnerable skin but no actual martial arts training would fight. But then even when the whole fearsome foursome is fighting together, Jessica's action bits are still halfway off-screen and quick cut to poo poo. Could they not get a good stunt double for Ritter? Also another one for the Defenders: Jessica doesn't exclusively beat up female henchmen/soldiers/minions, but female henchmen/soldiers/minions are pretty much exclusively taken out by Jessica. Basically any time there's an unnamed lady villain on screen, you know she's gonna run straight at the only lady hero. It seems like somebody wanted the henchies to have a nice gender mix but then got really uncomfortable with the idea of Mike Colter suplexing a woman.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
OutsideAngel posted:Which kinda falls flat when you put JJ next to Luke Cage in the Defenders, who just bodyslams motherfuckers left and right. They do a decent enough job of showing how a big dude with super strength and invulnerable skin but no actual martial arts training would fight. But then even when the whole fearsome foursome is fighting together, Jessica's action bits are still halfway off-screen and quick cut to poo poo. Could they not get a good stunt double for Ritter? I haven't seen Defenders yet. Who is stronger, Luke Cage or Jessica Jones? AKA Jessica Jones made her seem stronger but Luke was still pretty drat super humanly strong.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 18:24
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:I liked how Jessica Jones' powers didn't manifest themselves via martial arts. I don't think she threw even a single kick, all she ever did was throw or punch people. Throws and punches are martial arts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 18:48
|
|
|
Aleph Null posted:I haven't seen Defenders yet. Who is stronger, Luke Cage or Jessica Jones? AKA Jessica Jones made her seem stronger but Luke was still pretty drat super humanly strong. In terms of screen portrayal, Luke Cage by a landslide, but that might just be that JJ gets awful choreography
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 12:46 |
|
|
OutsideAngel posted:Which kinda falls flat when you put JJ next to Luke Cage in the Defenders, who just bodyslams motherfuckers left and right. Luke knew to box though. He was a prison boxer prior to getting his powers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 19:22
|
|