|
They really could have just done more teleportation/ dimensional trickery like the first two zones. It's weird.
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 03:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 12:41 |
|
|
Bloody Pom posted:It honestly feels like Stardust Speedway should have come later. You go to Little Planet for one stage, then back to Angel Island/Mobius for four stages, then to Little Planet again for the last two. One way to make it work: Flying Battery flies to Little Planet and docks at Robotnik's propaganda forest. Sonic goes to Stardust Speedway, travels to the future, beats Metal Sonic, then falls off of the planet and lands in Hydrocity.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 04:18
|
|
|
That could work, though it would make the Ruby teleportation scene at the end of PGZ a little out of place.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 04:22
|
|
|
I think a transition is really needed before PGZ to setup what's exactly going on there, especially with Acts 1 and 2 being so different As a final note, I finished a Sonic only run to complete all 4 character options. Got all emeralds by CPZ. I would buy a special stage expansion DLC
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 04:42
|
|
|
Pigbuster posted:I'd say it's sometimes an outright issue, especially in the case of Lava Reef to Metallic Madness. I had no idea those last few levels took place on Little Planet since there wasn't any transition at all. Mmm. A jump into a hidden palace teleporter beam with the camera panning up to Little Planet would've solved it. FBZ to Press Garden is easy; fall off. Stardust to Hydrocity is difficult, might have been easiest to use another Ruby teleport. Hydrocity to Mirage is also tricky... maybe the characters fall out of Hydrocity into the air under Angel Island and get caught by the Tornado. OOZ to LRZ could also just have had a pan-up to Angel Island above OOZ. Titanic Monarch should've been visible in the background of MMZ 2. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Sep 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 05:00
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Mmm. A jump into a hidden palace teleporter beam with the camera panning up to Little Planet would've solved it. They can't fall out under Angel Island because the Phantom Ruby made it fall into the ocean. It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe they just went back to Angel Island from Hydrocity to go grab the Tornado? It was presumably left there in the intro. I don't see how you could make a decent zone transition for that though. I think the biggest mysteries are Stardust Speedway to Hydrocity (Ruby or falling off somehow works though I guess) and Oil Ocean to Lava Reef. Clearly they fly to Mirage Saloon, but where is it? If it's on Angel Island that would mean Oil Ocean is a separate one from in Sonic 2. If it's the same one, then that would mean Mirage Saloon is on Westside Island, which is a little strange because they'd be flying away from Angel Island and then going back to it for Lava Reef. Getting from Oil Ocean to Lava Reef is also a mystery. Did they go all the way back to Mirage Saloon and grab the Tornado? Another ruby transition is probably the easiest excuse. Metallic Madness to Titanic Monarch isn't too hard to imagine though. Either they use a teleporter like Knuckles does or they use the rocket that you fight the Heavy Rider on top of.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 05:17
|
|
|
Ventana posted:They're both a bit repetitive and don't do very much, but I think you're talking about Rail Canyon. Bullet Station still has some good riffs and a sick bass I kinda preferred Hang Castle to Mystic Mansion just for the sort of dorky 1950's-ish sound it has. Mystic Mansion's hardly a slouch, though, easily still one of the game's best tracks. Going into other tracks, while the stage it's for suuuuuuuuucks (like, even by Heroes's standards), Casino Park had a very lovely little theme. Bingo Highway was quite good as well, even if it wasn't thematically very similar, so it's good in a very different way. Likewise, the Special Stages from Heroes were the pits, but the Act 1 track for them was pretty stellar. Shame the Act 2 one (the one that actually counts with regards to emerald completion) isn't as catchy... Also, though my brief playthrough of the game back in the day never got past the enemy gauntlet boss for Hang Castle/Mystic Mansion, listening to the music for the final stages later on, I loved how Final Fortress was basically just Mega Man V's title screen verbatim. Lastly, I think I'm always gonna have nostalgia for this menu theme, purely because some promotional Flash-based puzzle game on the game's Japanese site used the track as its backing music, and it kinda fit perfectly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 05:36
|
|
|
Heroes had some pretty good music, it was unfortunately hampered by the fact that you'd potentially be hearing a track loop for upwards of 20 minutes, and you'd need to do each level four times to get the "true" ending, and if there was a particular special stage that was giving you trouble? well get hosed bucko.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 06:06
|
|
|
When I clicked on the Bullet Station music I instantly remembered HOW loving MANY times have I heard that opening riff due to falling into pits and whatnot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 06:25
|
|
|
Hitlersaurus Christ posted:They can't fall out under Angel Island because the Phantom Ruby made it fall into the ocean. It's a bit of a stretch, but maybe they just went back to Angel Island from Hydrocity to go grab the Tornado? Meh, there's no need to say Angel Island fell again. I assume that between Hydrocity and Lava Reef they were basically flying around after Robotnik over the course of some time. He did something in Hydrocity, hauled arse out to the train and trained cargo through Mirage to Oil Ocean... oh, he was manufacturing fuel for the rocket in the background of Lava Reef.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 08:43
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Meh, there's no need to say Angel Island fell again. The first thing you see in the game is literally Angel Island in the ocean though. Also, Stealth said in a stream of him playing the game that it was because of the phantom ruby, too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 11:32
|
|
|
Hitlersaurus Christ posted:The first thing you see in the game is literally Angel Island in the ocean though. Also, Stealth said in a stream of him playing the game that it was because of the phantom ruby, too. Huh. I thought Angel Island fell because using Hyper Sonic overcharged the Super Emeralds and made them crack, so there wasn't enough power to keep Angel Island floating. I do have a question about the opening. Were those 5 Egg Robos transformed by the Phantom Ruby into the Hard-Boiled Heavies, or did Eggman create them? I don't have the little story guide they were giving away in cons, so I'm not sure if it was mentioned there or not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 13:32
|
|
|
amigolupus posted:Huh. I thought Angel Island fell because using Hyper Sonic overcharged the Super Emeralds and made them crack, so there wasn't enough power to keep Angel Island floating. According to Taxman on Twitter, when the Chaos Emeralds drifted back into the special stage dimension after Sonic 3 the husks of the Super Emeralds were left there as relics. Plus, Angel Island only needs the Master Emerald to float anyway! The Hard-Boiled Heavies were a team of normal eggrobos that got transformed by the ruby, which also made them abbot crazy according to the manual.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 13:43
|
|
|
Hitlersaurus Christ posted:The first thing you see in the game is literally Angel Island in the ocean though. Also, Stealth said in a stream of him playing the game that it was because of the phantom ruby, too. I meant there'd be no reason for them to have made it that way if it was convenient to have it floating. Also, I always assumed that the start of S3&K was over a lake or shoreline on the island anyway. I mean, there's a beach. How does that work when it's floating?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 13:57
|
|
|
It's a body of water on the floating island itself, it's literally the same opening shot from Sonic 3 when the island is still in the sky, and there's no indication in-game that the island falls out the sky (and the master emerald is still there the whole time). It's really best not to think about it. The level progression of Mania is based on what works best for game flow but is all over the place in terms of in-game geography, and they didn't have time to work out how it all fits together before release.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:22
|
|
|
Even if I don't quite agree with these opinions, I do think they're pretty reasonable. All in all, Heroes really does have good tracks everywhere. About the special stage bit, you are right, and it was great to see that in Generations 3DS they used that theme for their special stages. Sorta vindication for not using the clearly better theme back in heroes. I don't like it as much as the original, but the effort is nice.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 14:53
|
|
|
Doctor_Fruitbat posted:It's a body of water on the floating island itself, it's literally the same opening shot from Sonic 3 when the island is still in the sky, and there's no indication in-game that the island falls out the sky (and the master emerald is still there the whole time). In Sonic 3, the island is in the ocean due to the Death Egg crashing onto the island. But by the end of Sonic and Knuckles, when the Death Egg has finally launched and the Master Emerald is returned, it goes airborne again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:01
|
|
|
I don't think I paid enough attention when I was a kid then, even though it's clearly shown on the title screens that it is in the ocean.  I thought 'it's the floating island, therefore it is floating, QED'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
XavierGenisi posted:In Sonic 3, the island is in the ocean due to the Death Egg crashing onto the island. But by the end of Sonic and Knuckles, when the Death Egg has finally launched and the Master Emerald is returned, it goes airborne again. Oh wow, so that's why Knuckles doesn't like Sonic
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:33
|
|
|
So do you think Angel Island is an actual regional name on the Floating Island or was it kind of just like an introductory "here's what you would call this place if you were totally new to it, I guess" sort of thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:49
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:So do you think Angel Island is an actual regional name on the Floating Island or was it kind of just like an introductory "here's what you would call this place if you were totally new to it, I guess" sort of thing. "The Floating Island" was the name for the whole island until Sonic Adventure when it was officially named Angel Island.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 15:58
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/912693357360455680 i cannot think of a level archetype I could possibly be less excited to see repeated for the 50th time than "the casino themed level with slot machines and flippers" again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:03
|
|
|
I associate Casino with Sonic right behind Green Hill Zone, so I am all in on Casino Forest.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:10
|
|
|
I just kinda like how the music synth seems to be an actual YM2612 this time, instead of dying cats.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:18
|
|
|
I thought the lack of a casino type stage was a glaring omission is Generations so this pleases me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
Casino stages are as much an essential level theme as the "Green Hill Zone" type levels. Mashing it up with a ruins stage is a legitimately clever idea.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:31
|
|
|
The music from that stage reminds me of this a little bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up88zQxhKVc Think it might be one of the instruments or something? Either way, it sounds like actual Genesis music, which is great.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:33
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:Meh, there's no need to say Angel Island fell again. I just assumed the levels were placed thematically and what CW and the other designers felt worked right and that the "geography" wasn't even considered. I mean it does explain OOZ to LRZ quite well among others. That said now that I think about it, if they were worried about the geography of the levels it does explain the lack of transitions or the lack of effort in them. Let's face it being teleported away by the baddies is so crap they may as well have left it out altogether- and then they pull it twice!
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:34
|
|
|
I like the bad level design and complete lack of enemies in that footage. What is going on with this game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
Weavered posted:I just assumed the levels were placed thematically and what CW and the other designers felt worked right and that the "geography" wasn't even considered. I mean it does explain OOZ to LRZ quite well among others. Oh yeah, I'm just speculating how they could have retro-justified it if they'd had time for transitions. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Sep 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
Man the classic sonic segments are really going to fare poorly this close on the heels of mania
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I like the bad level design and complete lack of enemies in that footage. That music too.  It's pretty worrying for even the music to be bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:51
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:So do you think Angel Island is an actual regional name on the Floating Island or was it kind of just like an introductory "here's what you would call this place if you were totally new to it, I guess" sort of thing. I think "Floating Island" is an uninspired dub name they dropped a long time ago.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:54
|
|
|
ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I like the bad level design and complete lack of enemies in that footage. Yeah, that is incredibly weird. There don't even seem to be any traps, you just meander through collecting rings and absolutely nothing else happens.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
There's a really weird inconsistency and sparseness of detail to the look of that stage. There's parts where there's tons of different neons lights and some bright-purple ambience and yellow windows and I'm like "huh this looks really nice" but then Sonic runs a bit to the right and it's just muddy dark concrete texture and dark trees and a couple neon green flippers and the camera decides to zoom in real close and looking at it kinda makes me want throw up. Not quite as aesthetically pleasing Stardust Speedway Past, suffice to say. At least I actually noticed some improvements from Generations Classic Sonic here. Sonic seems to jump a bit higher and have a bit more hang time and the game actually makes you engage with the pinball physics a bit. Not really enough to inspire much confidence but it's there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Yeah, that is incredibly weird. There don't even seem to be any traps, you just meander through collecting rings and absolutely nothing else happens. There are spiked ball hazards and this isn't the whole level.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
I hope Sonic Forces fails and Sonic Team is humiliated and Sega kills them and forces Taxman with an unlimited budget to make Sonic video games from now on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
ThisIsACoolGuy posted:complete lack of enemies in that footage. it's got a very clear Casino Night inspiration with the objects you interact with in this footage. Casino Night is notable for having a complete lack of enemies, save for the fairly rare crab bumper enemy that was tricky to actually kill.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
SwissCM posted:I hope Sonic Forces fails and Sonic Team is humiliated and Sega kills them and forces Taxman with an unlimited budget to make Sonic video games from now on. How could sonic team feel humiliation after sonic 06
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 17:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 12:41 |
|
|
SwissCM posted:I hope Sonic Forces fails and Sonic Team is humiliated and Sega kills them and forces Taxman with an unlimited budget to make Sonic video games from now on. I hope it's a good game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2017 17:09
|
|
