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Snorb posted:There's a lot of reasons why King's Quest VI is the best in the series. The writing is, of course, the main reason (I can still call off the spellcasting chants from memory, 20+ years later) but the other biggest reason is using the spoilered inventory item when you're supposed to use it. I'm very much looking forward to being able to link the associated piece of music. That section is probably the high point of the entire drat series, to be honest. If you've played and beaten KQ6, it's this music.
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Sep 23, 2017 23:51
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| # ? May 9, 2024 19:36 |
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King's Quest VI isn't just my favorite game in the series, for me it's my favorite game of all time, and has been since the first time I played it as a little boySnorb posted:There's a lot of reasons why King's Quest VI is the best in the series. The writing is, of course, the main reason (I can still call off the spellcasting chants from memory, 20+ years later) Magic paint, black as ink Bring to life what I think Make it real, what I draw According to this spoken VZJEEEEOW Bloops Crusts fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 02:23
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Not to interrupt all the reminiscing, but we still have this game design abortion to push through before digging into some KQ6 goodness.
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Sep 24, 2017 02:42
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I'll see if my old EGA disks work and attempt to grab some screenshots of the copy protection prompts.
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Sep 24, 2017 06:39
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Watching a video with some guys who worked at Sierra in the 90s, talking about how much it sucked working on the tech support line for adventure games because most callers didn't have broken games, they were just stuck on the puzzles, and the tech support guys knew the answers but weren't allowed to help with puzzles because they were required to upsell the 900 number for hints. So they got sworn at a lot.
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Sep 24, 2017 22:30
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Luckily nowadays video games just have micro-transactions and DLC to keep the business end up and running
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Sep 25, 2017 08:00
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Outpost22 posted:Luckily nowadays video games just have micro-transactions and DLC to keep the business end up and running "Ran out of emeralds in the forest? Buy a 5 Emerald pack for only $.99 or buy a 50 Emerald pack for $9.99 and get 10 emeralds free!"
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Sep 25, 2017 08:39
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Jagged Jim posted:"Ran out of emeralds in the forest? Buy a 5 Emerald pack for only $.99 or buy a 50 Emerald pack for $9.99 and get 10 emeralds free!" "Welcome to the forest! Have you forgotten something? Get a hint for $0.99*, more detail for $1.99**, and a full solution for $3.99!***" *Something sticky might help here...Pay an additional $1 for another hint or an additional $2.99 for a full solution! **I think you should be friendly with bees before you enter the forest...Pay an additional $1.99 for a full solution! ***(Full paragraph describing how to get honey)
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Sep 25, 2017 11:38
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If King's Quest were made in this same style today, especially mobile port, Roberta Williams might just go that route. Making the puzzles Sierra hint line-obtuse sounds equivalent 80s design philosophy.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:09
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MagusofStars posted:Or a little hint guy in the UI popping up and pestering you to pay for hints. The funny thing about this is that plenty of modern interactive fiction games have similar hint systems, just without the money aspect. In the really fancy ones, you can ask for help in any room and get a series of steadily more direct hints about what you need to do, culminating with a complete command transcript for the puzzle. Less-fancy just have a help file with ROT13'd hints or similar.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:38
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There's also the internet. Hints and walkthroughs are seconds away for free. the 900 number was really an artifact of the time in more ways than one. just for fun I went and looked up some old reviews of KQ5 and several of them praise the game's puzzles as 'not that difficult' and how it's a really great entry into the genre. Time changes perspective, alright.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:44
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Of course honey stops all movement! Haven't you ever played Donkey Kong Country?
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Sep 25, 2017 19:39
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Gonna be contrarian for a sec -- I never got thrown off by the honey/gems thing. The creepy little eyes gave away that something was up. And even the witch + genie lamp was something you could figure out by trial and error spamming every possible inventory item usage. As a kid, what was far worse was the timed Indiana Jones temple -- it was logical that since money was needed to buy things in the game, that I'd loot some from the cave. So I ended up playing a lot of "tiddlywinks" until I realized there was one specific glinty-rear end pixel I needed to click on.
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Sep 25, 2017 23:53
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It is pretty dumb that there's money you can steal from the temple, given that the main trap of the temple is...stealing money from it.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:44
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 Hello everyone, and welcome back to King's Quest V. Today is gonna be a fun update, but first we have to sit through a cutscene. So let's get that out of the way quickly...  west Click this for video  I like the background detail in this screen and its brother we'll see in a moment.   : Hey! Over here! I've got something for you. : I never take anything without giving in return. For your generosity in giving me those exquisite emeralds I give you my finest pair of shoes. May they help you in your quest.This elf is all too happy to take without giving in return. Lying prick.   : Follow that passage over there. It's the way out of the Dark Forest. : Thank you very much for all your help. And I'm sure I will be able to find a use for these fine shoes. Seriously. I love the detail in these scenes. Seeing the little underground burrows of whatever creatures live there, and scattered fossils is pretty cool.  We got everything in the dark forest, but if you need to go back in, the passage we just left by will be your way out.  : Ohhhh, I'm glad to see you're okay! I was beginning to worry!: You were right to not want to venture in that dark forest, Cedric. I thought I'd NEVER get out of there alive!Well, we now have the keys to solve several long standing puzzles. So let's tick some off our list, eh?  : he lump of beeswax has become soft and sticky from the warmth of Graham's body. : Even though these are a very fine pair of shoes, Graham finds them too small for his own feet. south x2First off, there's a shop we haven't yet visited.  bakeshop door: Ooooh I'll wait for you here, Graham.: Good idea, Cedric. Keep the motor running. We might need to make a quick getaway. : Graham rolls his eyes and walks in the bakeshop. Sometimes the limited color palette doesn't work out quite as well as they would have hoped. The baker and the woman should have been given different colors to wear. Otherwise you wind up with this situation where it looks like this huge, burly guy has a tiny, petite, dainty waist and a dress.  : And how is your poor dear mother doing, William? : She hasn't been doing too well lately, but my brother and I keep an eye on her. Thanks for asking, Amanda. : Austin, don't touch that pie! The pies look delicious. I think I'll take one.: Yes, they were just made fresh this morning. Here you go.: Yes, this will be a fine dessert for our dinner tonight. Let's go home, Austin. You can actually talk to both Amanda and Austin here. They walk slow enough that the game seems to want you to.   : What's your name?: My name's Austin. I'm here with my mama. We're buying a pie.: That's nice.Graham has the best dismissive tone here. With two words he communicates exactly how little he cares about what the pair are doing. : Good day, madam. That pie looks awfully good.: Ah, yes. My family will enjoy it, I'm sure. : Here's the last of the pies. : Welcome to our bakehouse, traveler! Of course ALL of our wares are wonderful, but today we've got a special on custard pies. Just one silver coin each. But take your time... let me know when you're ready. : Everything looks so delicious. It's hard to decide what to buy.: *laughs* Everybody has that problem! But what a problem to have!: Those custard pies look awfully good.: Yes. Made from a recipe handed down from our dear Mama... and her Mama before her.: Hmmmmm. It's still hard to decide, though.: Well, take your time. There's no hurry. : The baker's brother is too busy to chat with Graham. cat: The cat doesn't appear to like Graham, much less answer him.There are dozens of interactions in here, and most of them are some variant of "the pies look amazing I bet they're mouth watering don't they look good?" This is also another place where you can gently caress up yet again. William said one silver coin each, but he's more than happy to take gold in exchange for a pie, and not give us change. A gold coin, a golden needle, or a golden heart doesn't matter to him. Let's just buy our pie and get outta here before I start another giant rant about dead man walking scenarios.  pie: Would you like a pie, sir?: Well... yes. Actually, I would.: That'll be one silver coin, then.: Let me see if I have one...: Well, let me know if you do. : Sir, I would purchase one of your custard pies.: The pies cost one silver coin each.: I've got it right here. Here you go.: I hope you enjoy your custard pie.: Oh, I'm sure I will! : Mmmmmm. The custard pie looks delicious! out of shopNow to save for no reason whatsoever. eastOn the border of the screen, Graham stops... : Suddenly, frantic squeakings alert Graham to a mangy cat chasing a terrified rat. Already pictured: the solution.  catWe have an incredibly short amount of time to do this. Failing to rescue this rat will result in yet another DMW. This is probably the single most infamous puzzle in King's Quest 5. Like with the first game, ask any random person what they know about this game and you'll get this as an answer.   : Oh, thank you, thank you, good sir! You saved my life! My children and I will never forget your kindness. Maybe someday I will be able to return the favor. Oh! I hear my children calling! Good-bye... until we meet again. Now with the rat rescued, let's go cash in that favor.  Fast forwarding...   : Struggle as he might, Graham cannot escape his bonds. The rat chews through the ropes.  : I told you I'd repay your kindness when you saved me from that horrible cat. Good luck, friend. rope: Graham stoops down and picks up the sturdy rope from the stone floor. door: A rusty padlock on the door keeps Graham locked in.... ... ... MOTHERF--  : Forget something, did you?NEXT TIME: We get to redo all of that. Because I saved over my savegame. Like a dingus. List of Points +4 - Got boots +2 - Bought pie +4 - Saved rat Total 78/160 Register of Deaths Permanently stuck
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Sep 26, 2017 03:00
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So much of the riveting dialogue in this game reads like something from a stock English phrase book. "Hello" "Hello" "My what a delicious pie." "Yes, my family will enjoy the pie" "Goodbye" "Goodbye"
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Sep 26, 2017 03:21
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If an old shoe can scare away a cat, why not use PAIR OF SHOES on VANDALS for more efficient problem solving?
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Sep 26, 2017 03:22
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EorayMel posted:If an old shoe can scare away a cat, why not use PAIR OF SHOES on VANDALS for more efficient problem solving? Remake KQ5 in the Zeno Clash engine. Now there's your efficient, boot-based problem solving.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:30
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quote:This is also another place where you can gently caress up yet again. William said one silver coin each, but he's more than happy to take gold in exchange for a pie, and not give us change. A gold coin, a golden needle, or a golden heart doesn't matter to him.
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Sep 26, 2017 03:59
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Does the game say anything if the rat dies? (I'm guessing no)
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Sep 26, 2017 04:06
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as far as I remember, it does not.
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Sep 26, 2017 04:40
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Also note, the cat/rat event is a ONE-TIME* occurrence that can be triggered anytime you pass through this screen. *in every version but the NES one, there the event will retrigger until you solve it, making this VASTLY less painful. Deathwind fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 04:55
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Deathwind posted:Also note, the cat/rat event is a ONE-TIME* occurrence that can be triggered anytime you pass through this screen. Anytime? What if you haven't explored the desert yet or it is the first time you came to the screen? Or does it at least check if you got the old boot before rolling the dice?
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Sep 26, 2017 05:00
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EorayMel posted:Anytime? The latter. It's like the bear or dog in that regard. You have to have the item to solve the puzzle before it will even show up.
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Sep 26, 2017 05:05
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there was an nes version 
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Sep 26, 2017 05:17
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Seyser Koze posted:there was an nes version Yep. There's even a let's play of it in the archives. Some interesting changes in order to handle the difference in processing abilities.
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Sep 26, 2017 05:21
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Leif. posted:And even the witch + genie lamp was something you could figure out by trial and error spamming every possible inventory item usage. I feel like that style of puzzle, where you just end up rubbing every inventory item on every other object until something happens, doesn't get enough criticism. Sure, you can solve things that way, but if more than a tiny fraction of players end up doing that then the puzzle is too difficult/nonsensical. Most players should have a good chance of being able to come up with the solution to most puzzles, otherwise it's not so much a game as a lovely cartoon that makes you do busy-work. But a lot of people seem to think that that kind of interaction is an unavoidable or even desirable feature of the genre.
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Sep 26, 2017 08:30
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The genie/witch puzzle actually isn't that bad. Almost every player would have opened the bottle and it's not out of line for the witch to think Graham was trying to buy his freedom.
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Sep 26, 2017 09:58
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gently caress that rat and cat forever.Deathwind posted:The genie/witch puzzle actually isn't that bad. Almost every player would have opened the bottle and it's not out of line for the witch to think Graham was trying to buy his freedom. Yeah, the player may know that there is a vengeful Genie in the pot,but how does Graham know that's the correct solution?
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Sep 26, 2017 10:17
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As a kid I figured out everything in the forest out on my own, even that I would need honey from the bees to catch the elf, but I got stuck because I never found the fish. I remember getting the spider/plant deaths but since they happened in different spots when I reloaded my saves, I figured that it was just a random death like earlier Sierra games and didn't realize I was stuck.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:14
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Deathwind posted:The genie/witch puzzle actually isn't that bad. Almost every player would have opened the bottle and it's not out of line for the witch to think Graham was trying to buy his freedom. As a matter of game design philosophy, many people feel that puzzle games should be beatable through careful thought and observation, without ever reaching a failure state. The problem with the genie is that it means the game requires the player to die at least once (or use spoilers) in a given playthrough to learn what the genie does, i.e. failure is not only expected but mandatory. One way this could have been solved: let Graham eavesdrop on the bandits at their camp, where they trade stories about their adventures and mention how long the lamp has been there with nobody daring to open it. Give the player a subtle hint that "hey, maybe it's not a great idea to do this." That's all it takes to turn a stupid puzzle into a good (or at least acceptable) one. But in general, the sheer resistance to logic that these games have is the primary reason they're so awful from a design perspective.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:31
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:As a matter of game design philosophy, many people feel that puzzle games should be beatable through careful thought and observation, without ever reaching a failure state. The problem with the genie is that it means the game requires the player to die at least once (or use spoilers) in a given playthrough to learn what the genie does, i.e. failure is not only expected but mandatory. Blue. Pate. Special.
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Sep 26, 2017 16:41
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The desert itself is in that category. There's no way to map it other than trying a route, dying, and trying another until you find the oases.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:13
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As a random person, yes, the rat is the one thing I knew about this game.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:23
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Do we ever get an exact timeframe from how long since the last game this takes place? Because man, Graham is RIPPED for sombody that was once on his deathbed.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:48
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:As a matter of game design philosophy, many people feel that puzzle games should be beatable through careful thought and observation, without ever reaching a failure state. The problem with the genie is that it means the game requires the player to die at least once (or use spoilers) in a given playthrough to learn what the genie does, i.e. failure is not only expected but mandatory. I'm sorry but if I hear bandits talking about a bottle no one has the stones to open, I'm going to open it. It's the Stimpy Effect.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:48
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:As a matter of game design philosophy, many people feel that puzzle games should be beatable through careful thought and observation, without ever reaching a failure state. The problem with the genie is that it means the game requires the player to die at least once (or use spoilers) in a given playthrough to learn what the genie does, i.e. failure is not only expected but mandatory. https://youtu.be/tDYn6a6pbZY Remember that this is early 90's Sierra, the player is expecting to die around every corner. The design philosophy you speak of is a much more recent idea, looking back I'm surprised they even had the scene with the bandits opening the cave.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:51
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:Do we ever get an exact timeframe from how long since the last game this takes place? Because man, Graham is RIPPED for sombody that was once on his deathbed. The fruit he ate not only cured his ailments but also restored a lot of his youth/stamina! So he's back to his pretty strong self.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:59
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bladeworksmaster posted:The fruit he ate not only cured his ailments but also restored a lot of his youth/stamina! So he's back to his pretty strong self. Apparently the fruit's counting "old age" as an ailment then.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:06
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CptWedgie posted:Apparently the fruit's counting "old age" as an ailment then. Old age is absolutely an ailment.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:45
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