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Typo posted:lol if you think the CCP isn't a party which primarily represents the interests of millionaires and billionaires I dunno about any Chinese studies, but the Princeton study pretty definitively demonstrated that the interests of working classes are almost never served by congress - no matter how loyal a voter you are. The problem you seem to have here is that having people from proletarian backgrounds organizing and representing a party doesn't count for anything, but it does.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:but the Princeton study pretty definitively demonstrated that the interests of working classes are almost never served by congress - no matter how loyal a voter you are. quote:The problem you seem to have here is that having people from proletarian backgrounds organizing and representing a party doesn't count for anything, but it does. quote:I dunno about any Chinese studies I think you are pretty much answering your own question imo
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Sep 28, 2017 16:14
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Typo posted:I think you are pretty much answering your own question imo It doesn't answer any question. You're basically making an assumption based on nothing.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:16
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It doesn't answer any question. You're basically making an assumption based on nothing. you are simultaneously telling me that having the "proletariat" "organizing and representing" a party must mean something then you cited the American case where both parties have plenty of working class people organizing for them mean nothing then you pretty much openly admit you don't know anything about the CCP so...here we are
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Sep 28, 2017 16:18
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Typo posted:you are simultaneously telling me that having the "proletariat" "organizing and representing" a party must mean something I said organizing and representing. Being a member of the CCP isn't like volunteering to work for an election campaign.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:21
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Karl Barks posted:chinese billionaires just buy property in vancouver, so it's chill hey now, theyre also singlehandedly keeping bitcoin afloat using it to funnel their corrupt money out of the country.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:22
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MikeCrotch posted:lol look at this gwailo doubting 5000 years of unbroken perfect rule MANDATE OF HEAVEN
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Sep 28, 2017 16:27
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I said organizing and representing. Being a member of the CCP isn't like volunteering to work for an election campaign. being an ordinary member of the CCP isn't all that meaningful either: you are just a party member which is kind a pre-requisite (or a booster) for employment in certain public sector jobs. You don't have influence on policy. The real power comes from advancing up the party hierarchy to leadership positions, but that heavily involves guangxi networks as well having good college degrees in a society and culture obsessed with academic credentials, in other words, largely cut off to those who comes from poor backgrounds except in cases where the government might make a point of having token peasants or whatever be in charge of something important sounding to look good there's probably some exceptions to this on the local level and in poor rural areas, but then again, the same is true of the US once you look past national politics and go to local politics. Plenty of people of humble background of both parties gets elected to be mayor of small towns in backwoods Alabama too.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:27
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safely sodomized posted:hey now, theyre also singlehandedly keeping bitcoin afloat using it to funnel their corrupt money out of the country. political horseshoe proved: both communists and libertarians love bitcoins
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Sep 28, 2017 16:28
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safely sodomized posted:hey now, theyre also singlehandedly keeping bitcoin afloat using it to funnel their corrupt money out of the country. communist billionaires and silicon valley libertarian dweebs propping up a digital currency, i love this timeline
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Sep 28, 2017 16:29
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drat it typo making same joke ugghhh
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Sep 28, 2017 16:33
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i just found this guevara quote and i wanted to share it because lmaoquote:I have come to communism because of daddy Stalin and nobody must come and tell me that I mustn’t read Stalin. I read him when it was very bad to read him.
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Sep 28, 2017 16:34
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it's not hard to imagine a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie that makes large concessions to workers to mitigate the country's internal contradictions (i.e., quelling instability from class conflict). that's social democracy in a nutshell, which is still understood as capitalist in orientation. but people run into real difficulty imagining the reverse case: a dictatorship of the proletariat that has made major concessions to the bourgeoisie primarily to deal with external contradictions (closing the technology gap via greater world market integration, slowing the buildup of foreign aggressiveness, etc) but remains socialist in orientation as we've seen, some people deal with said difficulty by refusing out of hand to even consider it as a possibility
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Sep 28, 2017 16:48
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Aeolius posted:but remains socialist in orientation
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Sep 28, 2017 16:51
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Typo posted:what the gently caress does this mean political orientation is a spectrum
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Sep 28, 2017 16:53
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think of the USSR's NEP; it's not a perfect analogue, mostly due to divergent circumstances, but it should give you an idea of what I mean at least
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Sep 28, 2017 16:53
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Aeolius posted:think of the USSR's NEP; it's not a perfect analogue, mostly due to divergent circumstances, but it should give you an idea of what I mean at least were bolsheviks leaders billionaires in the 1920s?
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Sep 28, 2017 16:55
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Karl Barks posted:political orientation is a spectrum a horseshoe even, except apparently instead of left/right it's communist/capitalist
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Sep 28, 2017 16:56
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you're about as disingenuous as i remember
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Sep 28, 2017 16:56
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Aeolius posted:you're about as disingenuous as i remember welcome to internet
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Sep 28, 2017 16:58
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Aeolius posted:you're about as disingenuous as i remember who would you side with in the sino-soviet split
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Sep 28, 2017 16:59
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no one because it should never have happened
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Sep 28, 2017 17:00
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tfw 30 million incels destroy society
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Sep 28, 2017 20:22
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steinrokkan posted:China: "We are capitalist now, we loving love capital and McDonalds and we think private property is the best thing ever"
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Sep 28, 2017 20:23
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chinese trump will promise to conquer vietnam or something to bring more women into the country
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Sep 28, 2017 20:26
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30 million today is a fraction compared to the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom.
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Sep 28, 2017 20:30
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the production quotas for sex bots are not nearly high enough
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Sep 28, 2017 20:33
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Karl Barks posted:the production quotas for sex bots are not nearly high enough drat right https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/...agenumber%3D135
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Sep 28, 2017 20:36
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R. Guyovich posted:that's not really debatable. the prc IS revisionist. the question is whether the revisionism is bad enough to be called a turn toward capitalism. i don't think so. Aight, that's fair enough. I really just wanted to hear what an ML thought about the whole issue. quote:remember multiple modes of production can exist in a single state, yet what's most important is which mode of production is dominant. Sure, to a certain extent I'll agree with you on that, but I'm very skeptical of the claim that China's dominant mode of production is socialist. The very conditions of capital production our still embedded (and I'd argue necessarily dominant)in the society. After all, does not class struggle still exist in the PRC? Does production for exchange still exist, nay, predominate in China? They are the very hallmarks of Capitalism, and no one would argue in good faith that China doesn't have these as much as any other country. quote:you mention de gaulle but don't also mention that government was under heavy influence from the french communists. i'd also argue that the level of nationalization then wasn't even as strong as it is in the current day prc I was merely pointing out that the state controlling the commanding heights of capital is, by itself, meaningless as a marker of bourgeois or proletariat control. The Gaulist were just a notable example, no doubt they were influenced by local and international communists. But I see no reason to doubt their own commitment to the idea of a state driving it's economy. Right-wing arguments can be made for state capitalism. By itself, I don't believe it's a sign of class struggle. Pener Kropoopkin posted:30 million today is a fraction compared to the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom. God worshipers did nothing wrong
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Sep 28, 2017 20:52
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what social safety net does china have
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Sep 28, 2017 20:53
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Jose posted:what social safety net does china have it's Not Great from what i understand, especially outside of major cities
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Sep 28, 2017 22:03
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Jose posted:what social safety net does china have children
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Sep 28, 2017 22:08
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Aeolius posted:a dictatorship of the proletariat that has made major concessions to the bourgeoisie
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Sep 28, 2017 22:15
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Typo posted:child
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Sep 28, 2017 22:15
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Aeolius posted:a dictatorship of the proletariat that has made major concessions to the bourgeoisie source your quotes
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Sep 28, 2017 22:22
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concessions such as becoming the bourgeoisie
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Sep 28, 2017 22:24
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mainlanders really like ladyboys so conquer thailand instead.
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Sep 28, 2017 22:29
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Darkman Fanpage posted:mainlanders really like ladyboys so conquer thailand instead. seems excessive when you can just instantly fix the gender imbalance and all the angry horny lonely men
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Sep 28, 2017 22:30
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also one of the ccp's biggest failings has been its allowing of the misogynist gender preference for male heirs. that and bullshit chinese medicine which says every ground up endangered animal species will make their dick bigger.
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Sep 28, 2017 22:33
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Darkman Fanpage posted:also one of the ccp's biggest failings has been its allowing of the misogynist gender preference for male heirs. that and bullshit chinese medicine which says every ground up endangered animal species will make their dick bigger. please don't endanger my business of killing rare animals and grinding up viagra and selling it as said rare animal
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Sep 28, 2017 22:34
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