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https://twitter.com/caseytolan/status/913801290366410752
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Sep 29, 2017 19:22
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Cerebral Bore posted:minority..........vote Found the first problem with your idea. There's a whole lotta systems that are really good at making that not happen.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:23
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Cerebral Bore posted:A good step would be to make all police officers subject to recall elections in the communities they're supposed to serve, so that minority communities can vote the racist shits off the force. It always seemed incredibly backwards that we have certain judges who are elected and held accountable to mob rule, while police officers are entirely outside the approval of the commonfolk.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:23
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Koalas March posted:Man, it's almost like the police culture is built on fear and ruthlessness in order to maintain control and protect property not people with the added feature of protecting white supremacy and maintaining the status quo. This topic always brings back bad memories of the Cops in the Beat threads and the trash posters that always had some bullshit reason why the latest murder by the police was totally legally justified and thus, while unfortunate (  ) there is simply nothing we can do without trampling all over the bill of rights. Somehow in a country where we have one of the, if not the absolute, highest incarceration rates in the world our system simply can't punish murderous police acting on authority of the state without our justice system collapsing.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:23
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The Muppets On PCP posted:absolutely, but the answer to that isn't placing the actual lower income white working class in their own special political category and developing a separate policy to attract them No, but it seems to me that the platform that is going to get out the working class vote for the Democrats, is also going to be the policy that peels those middle-income voters who live in economically depressed areas off of the Trump coalition. Those middle-income voters may still not end up voting D in 2020. But if the Dems manage to highlight how little Trump has done for their communities, and show that they're not just paying lip service to left-populism anymore, I expect a lot of them will probably stay home.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:24
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https://twitter.com/jmillerlewis/status/913808872397312001 We will get your little dog too!
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Sep 29, 2017 19:27
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Koalas March posted:Abolish police ftfy Cerebral Bore posted:A good step would be to make all police officers subject to recall elections in the communities they're supposed to serve, so that minority communities can vote the racist shits off the force. They could just elect better mayors.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:28
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bird food bathtub posted:Found the first problem with your idea. There's a whole lotta systems that are really good at making that not happen. Well, that's true. But on the other hand, if the US ever gets to the point where my idea is actually enacted and minorities get an actual say when it comes to policing, I'd assume that they'd have gotten rid of voter suppression as well.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:29
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thechosenone posted:Would the GOP would be foolish enough to even do something like harm police unions though? Seems like they wouldn't even think to do it. After they take apart app the other unions, sure This party elected Trump
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Sep 29, 2017 19:31
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Mr Hootington posted:Recently Puerto Rico voted to seek statehood. The referendum lost. The referendum lost because something like 3/4ths of the voting population boycotted it at the instruction of their party (also every referendum is worded terribly and that's usually the sticking point). Those who did vote voted overwhelmingly (something like 90% or around there) for statehood. After this horseshit with Trump there's basically zero chance they won't be pushing for statehood since that means you can't be ignored like you can with a territory.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:31
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Nah, Ross Perot took almost 30% of the Republican vote by being an anti-trade Republican. No, attitudes about free trade have changed pretty dramatically among Republicans. Of course there was always a portion who had negative views, but that portion increased a bunch in recent years. I'm posting from my phone, but a quick Google search reveals how polling results have drastically changed on the subject.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:32
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Isn't it nice when an old man has a hobby? Some build train sets. Some whittle. And some orchestrate a vast right-wing racist conspiracy. Bless.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:32
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Party Plane Jones posted:The referendum lost because something like 3/4ths of the voting population boycotted it at the instruction of their party (also every referendum is worded terribly and that's usually the sticking point). Those who did vote voted overwhelmingly (something like 90% or around there) for statehood. After this horseshit with Trump there's basically zero chance they won't be pushing for statehood since that means you can't be ignored like you can with a territory. Why didn't they want to anyway? Is it just having to pay federal taxes?
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Sep 29, 2017 19:33
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Party Plane Jones posted:The referendum lost because something like 3/4ths of the voting population boycotted it at the instruction of their party (also every referendum is worded terribly and that's usually the sticking point). Those who did vote voted overwhelmingly (something like 90% or around there) for statehood. After this horseshit with Trump there's basically zero chance they won't be pushing for statehood since that means you can't be ignored like you can with a territory. The referndum didn't lose. It won. There's questions about the legitimacy because of the boycot, but it was a 97% vote in favor of statehood. That's winning. Also, in 2014 there were two referrendums 1) Do you want to stay a territory? And 2)If we don't stay a territory, would you rather be independent or a state? And in 2014 No, and State won those. So the last two times the question has been put to the voters, they've expressed a will for statehood. It's entirely up to the US Congress now.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:34
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BarbarianElephant posted:Why didn't they want to anyway? Is it just having to pay federal taxes? Previously to the past decade when the economy was better PR's view was that it was better for them to remain a territory and enjoy much of the benefits without paying taxes, yeah. Since the recession hit the island (I think we're in what, the 12th year of it?) and the revenue has vanished they've been pushing more and more for statehood.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:38
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Ze Pollack posted:when's the last time a teacher got caught loving a child on tape and Dead Reckoning But A Teacher argued that they should face no disciplinary action for doing so quote:And it does not stop with litigation windows. In 2012, the Assembly considered a bill making it easier to fire teachers who sexually abuse students. Consider for a second that word “easier” — should anything be easier than simply firing somebody who molests children? The bill was written in response to the case of a Los Angeles elementary-school teacher who was fired after being accused of sexually abusing his students, and who challenged his firing. Rather than act in accord with the horrifying details of the case, the school district paid the teacher $40,000 to drop his appeal. That’s small change compared with the $30 million settlement the district is paying to the teacher’s alleged victims as a result of the case, or, for that matter, compared with the $23 million bail requirement that is keeping teacher Mark Berndt behind bars as he awaits trial on 23 felony counts of gruesome sexual abuse. Against that background, making it easier to fire teachers facing credible accusations of sexual abuse seems like a pretty straightforward proposition. But the California Teachers Association and other unions presented a united front against a bill passed by the state senate, and it died in the Assembly. Trabisnikof posted:Imagine if you couldn't sue teachers for anything they did so long as the teacher could claim it was job related. Trabisnikof posted:I'm also pretty sure you're more likely to be assaulted or murdered on the job as a teacher than as a cop.  get the gently caress out of here with that nonsense. From July 1, 2013 through June 30, 2014, there were a total of 48 student, staff, and other nonstudent school-associated violent deaths in the United States, which included 26 homicides. In 2014 there were 61 LEO killed by deliberate gunfire, assault, or vehicular assault in the US. There are about 750,000 full time sworn LEO in the United States, vs 3.6 million full time elementary and secondary school teachers. (College teachers are more difficult to count.) So cops are ~11 times more likely to be murdered on the job than teachers.
Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 19:39
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Hey, and thanks for the comments about my stuff from before. I guess some of y'all are in, if not the same boat at least an adjacent boat.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:39
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Ytlaya posted:No, attitudes about free trade have changed pretty dramatically among Republicans. Of course there was always a portion who had negative views, but that portion increased a bunch in recent years. I'm posting from my phone, but a quick Google search reveals how polling results have drastically changed on the subject. There's been a material change, but anti-trade has always been a significant part of populist right-wing conservatism among the middle and lower-middle class people who went Democrat-Republican back in the '70s and '80s. Think back to stuff like the whole "Wal-Mart policy" email forward, where they legitimately believe America can go it alone and "Americans don't need anything not made in America." Right-wing populist anti-trade attitudes aren't rooted in economics, it's a cultural thing built on xenophobia and isolationist attitudes towards the rest of the world. It ties heavily into grievance politics and resentment as well, when you are talking about people whose entire worldview is built on perceived fairness and the strong notion that only people like them deserve to have nice things.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:40
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Lightning Knight posted:Right-wing populist anti-trade attitudes aren't rooted in economics, it's a cultural thing built on xenophobia and isolationist attitudes towards the rest of the world. I don't agree. While there are certainly xenophobic and isolationist attitudes at work, there are a great many former pro-labor Democrats who have defected to the GOP over the past twenty years, in no small part because free trade agreements and deregulatory policies, championed by Third Way Democrats, have had unambiguously negative impacts on their lives and their communities.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:47
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But that isn't the fault of free trade, it is because the benefits of free trade went exclusively to the rich, while the negatives hit the poor and middle class. You can have free trade and then tax the rich to make up for the weaker manufacturing and providing a robust safety net with the extra money made.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:52
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Peachfart posted:But that isn't the fault of free trade, it is because the benefits of free trade went exclusively to the rich, while the negatives hit the poor and middle class. The negatives of free trade didn't exclusively hit the poor and middle class. The political problem of free trade policies in the 90's was that the benefits are widely dispersed (everyone gets a couple of extra sock choices, your cars and car parts are cheaper, replacement parts for electronics are more plentiful, etc) but the downsides are concentrated heavily on a small portion of the population. Everyone who shops at Wal-Mart or can buy a new Ford for $12k is benefiting in an indirect way. But those getting hurt are getting hurt is a significant and direct way.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:55
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https://twitter.com/HouseAgNews/status/913810825047101440 Heck yeah. A great program that helps many people.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:After they take apart app the other unions, sure Police unions have a particular function that set them apart from the rest. They allow the police to function as government thugs with impunity, while general unions do the opposite.
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Sep 29, 2017 19:59
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huh, dead reckoning disingenuously putting up an unrelated story to deflect from police murdering children without any consequences how totally unprecedented
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Sep 29, 2017 20:02
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Main Paineframe posted:The only problem with police unions is that every other union should have that same level of power. You're also conflating police union representation, qualified immunity, and the structural advantages police have when facing prosecution like they're the same thing.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:09
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Dead Reckoning posted:Funny how I'm the bad guy here for taking the stance "everyone should have strong unions, not just people I think deserve it." lol at thinking police unions aren't part and parcel w/ the structural advantages and qualified immunity that police enjoy. Also: power dynamics. https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312?lang=en
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Sep 29, 2017 20:13
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https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/913841805996773376
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Sep 29, 2017 20:14
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Dead Reckoning posted:Funny how I'm the bad guy here for taking the stance "everyone should have strong unions, not just people I think deserve it." you're conflating your posts and good opinions like they're the same thing
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Sep 29, 2017 20:15
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Peachfart posted:But that isn't the fault of free trade, it is because the benefits of free trade went exclusively to the rich, while the negatives hit the poor and middle class. One absolutely can do this, yes. The problem is, the Democrats of the 90's promised that this would happen, and then did not follow through. So it's tough to sell this to the Rust Belt and other areas hit hard by NAFTA nowadays.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:22
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Dead Reckoning posted:Funny how I'm the bad guy here for taking the stance "everyone should have strong unions, not just people I think deserve it." No, you literally only pop up to talk about the police. You don't give a poo poo about unions in general.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:24
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Lemming posted:No, you literally only pop up to talk about the police. You don't give a poo poo about unions in general. I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:28
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Majorian posted:One absolutely can do this, yes. The problem is, the Democrats of the 90's promised that this would happen, and then did not follow through. So it's tough to sell this to the Rust Belt and other areas hit hard by NAFTA nowadays. Imagine if we'd gotten a real employment guarantee and associated workforce programs in the 90s as was the original proposal for welfare reform.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:28
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D. Nobody cares what you say believe, we've figured it out based on the pattern of what you reply to and talk and and defend. You don't give a poo poo about any union but the police union.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:30
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D. It's cause teachers don't kill people on the reg.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:30
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D. it's almost like teachers aren't killing black people in cold blood on a regular basis  also get out DR
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Sep 29, 2017 20:31
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D. how about actually funding schools instead you piece of poo poo
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Sep 29, 2017 20:32
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Cerebral Bore posted:It's cause teachers don't kill people on the reg. Also when was the last time a teachers' union argued a teacher should keep their job after the teacher shot a child to death on duty?
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Sep 29, 2017 20:33
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Jesus this gives me a lot of ammo. The literal only reason to do this is to stop policy-based discussion on upcoming legislation. I'm trying to anticipate a way someone could defend their party on this one.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:33
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Potato Salad posted:Jesus this gives me a lot of ammo. The literal only reason to do this is to stop policy-based discussion on upcoming legislation. I'm trying to anticipate a way someone could defend their party on this one. Cbo is run by liberals and is fake news
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Sep 29, 2017 20:34
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Potato Salad posted:Jesus this gives me a lot of ammo. The literal only reason to do this is to stop policy-based discussion on upcoming legislation. I'm trying to anticipate a way someone could defend their party on this one. CBO is biased, waiting serves no purpose, streamlining congress, etc. "so you want it to take longer for congress to pass laws?"
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