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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D. Quality of schooling is dependent upon funding. Despite years of the GOP looking for something, anything to justify cutting local taxes for school funding without looking like hypocrites to even the dumbest members of their base, no strong link between education quality and any factor other than money has been found, even at the extremely low bar the GOP sets for results that fits the conservative worldview. Teacher's unions aren't the problem. They've done what little they can to make teaching remotely attractive in the US, where it is far more competitive in those Scandinavian socialist states abroad that beat the US in every quality of life metric imaginable. To say teachers unions favor a greedy few over rising all educators' boats is the same as blaming the ACA for the failure of healthcare in a red state. If you want nice things, pay for them. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 20:36
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Friction between unionized teachers and part timers is an example of a class conflict created and aggrivated by republican lawmakers whose hopelessly small education budgets create untenable situations right out of the gates. basically what I'm saying is that Dead Reckoning's "what about x" posting can suck my diiiiiiick
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Sep 29, 2017 20:43
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D. Unions should not be weakened, but they should not be free from scrutiny either. Ideally they should deal with their problems internally, but if they can't, there should be a means of bringing cases of misconduct to arbitration. Police unions prove that bullish unions can have a negative impact if shielded from their own social context.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:46
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I'll have more of a problem with teacher's unions when they start making public statements that the molestation or rape victims of teachers deserve what they got from their members because of problems in their own communities they need to fix.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:46
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Cerebral Bore posted:It's cause teachers don't kill people on the reg. Raskolnikov38 posted:how about actually funding schools instead you piece of poo poo Potato Salad posted:Teacher's unions aren't the problem. They've done what little they can to make teaching remotely attractive in the US, where it is far more competitive in those Scandinavian socialist states abroad that beat the US in every quality of life metric imaginable.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:52
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Dead Reckoning posted:You're pivoting to a completely unrelated accusation. Why do you assume that, because I'm pro union, I'm opposed to school funding? I'm simply putting out an answer to improving our schools that will actually improve them instead of crippling them even further
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Sep 29, 2017 20:55
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Than what was the purpose of the "but" getter, if not as a contrasting conjunction?Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D. In your post, what are you contrasting Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 20:56
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I feel like this is a good topic to get thunderdomed.
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Sep 29, 2017 20:56
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Potato Salad posted:Than what was the purpose of the "but" getter, if not as a contrasting conjunction?
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Sep 29, 2017 20:57
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you're so full of poo poo, and I know you see it based on how quick you were to walk that one back
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Sep 29, 2017 20:59
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DR: "Hey, I sympathize with unions, but nobody seems to criticize teachers in D&D." "Hey, I sympathize with minorities, but nobody seems to criticize peaceful protest in D&D." This is the rhetorical form you posted, don't try to talk your way out of it.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:02
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Potato Salad posted:Than what was the purpose of the "but" getter, if not as a contrasting conjunction?
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Sep 29, 2017 21:03
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Potato Salad posted:you're so full of poo poo, and I know you see it based on how quick you were to walk that one back Person A: If you care about other unions how come you only post about police unions? Lemming posted:No, you literally only pop up to talk about the police. You don't give a poo poo about unions in general. Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:03
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Dead Reckoning posted:Lemming accused me of only speaking up to defend police unions. I'm saying that I don't need to speak up to defend other unions because SA on the whole is pretty left-wing, so attacks on other sorts of unions are sufficiently rare that I haven't seen any to respond to. Attacks on teachers' unions using incredibly similar language are a staple of right-wing internet sites, which I hilighted with that NR link, but I don't post on any of those.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:04
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The troops need a union. 
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Sep 29, 2017 21:06
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Here, have some actual content https://twitter.com/Marmel/status/913854094053429248
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Sep 29, 2017 21:08
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Meanwhile, while we debate what unions are good, the Supreme Court will make that question entirely theoretical.
yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 21:09
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Al Franken must sign off on his own fundraising emails. Subject: (insert a terrifying subject line) The end of September = the end of the third FEC fundraising quarter of 2017. We could use your help. And yes, "help" means "money."
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Sep 29, 2017 21:10
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Dead Reckoning posted:I'm pretty much 100% pro union, it's just that "we should get rid of teachers unions so that we can fire the bad & under performing ones, school reform now" never seems to come up in D&D. I know it's your gimmick and all, but your example of why it should be easier to fire teachers was about a teacher that was easily fired. Maybe don't just read the headline?
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Sep 29, 2017 21:31
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Yo, police killing children and getting away with it isn't a problem of police unions, it's a problem of a justice system that refuses to clean its own house of the filth. Police unions being strong isn't the problem, the people who should be challenging them not doing it is the problem. You don't have to undercut unions at all to fix this problem. You have to push the justice system to do its loving job. And I loving hate that I have to be on DR's side in this, jfc people. Although I'm glad he decided to argue for removing teachers' unions because he cannot hold a logically consistent thread in his own argument lol.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:32
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Maybe the truth is the Scab's Union is good and we have to let them cross our picket lines.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:35
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:And I loving hate that I have to be on DR's side in this, jfc people. Actually to me it sounds like you're on Main Paineframe's side of the argument: Main Paineframe posted:I'm really suspicious of arguments against police unions, because unions are things that should carry out their purpose even when (indeed, especially when) that purpose is unpopular. Certainly, there are a lot of bad police unions, but if you're cheering the prospect of an anti-union SC ruling because it might take police unions down too, then you're just demonizing unions as a whole. You have the opportunity to choose here, you don't have to restrict yourself to one of either two
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Sep 29, 2017 21:37
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The justice system is not doing its job because the nation is in love with police, isn't it. The unions could aid the reform process by standing up to abuse of power within its ranks, until they do so, they contribute to the stalemate.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:37
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https://twitter.com/Hadas_Gold/status/913865256669151233
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Sep 29, 2017 21:39
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Although I'm glad he decided to argue for removing teachers' unions because he cannot hold a logically consistent thread in his own argument lol. Potato Salad posted:Why do you tend to show up in here seemingly only when there's race or public authority issues to discuss, anyway?  I post a lot in the SCOTUS thread at times because sometimes I enjoy discussing my (I guess it would be called) formalist and deontological philosophy, even though I know a whole lot of people disagree with me and think it's monstrous. I think that's what a lot of people find really upsetting about my arguments: I think that, if the rules are good and the rules are followed, then either our objection to the results deserves scrutiny, or the discussion should be about how the rules can be made better.I don't feel the need to type out "I too agree that people should have the right to take a knee during the national anthem, and the taxes should be increased in order to fund the government to the level of its obligations, that the NPS, EPA, FDA, DOE, IRS and BLM should have budgets commensurate with their responsibilities, and that climate change should be our top national priority, amen" every time one of those topics comes up. Trabisnikof posted:The troops need a union. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 21:43
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twodot posted:Huh? Who is the person you think is full of poo poo? This seems really simple to me, I don't know how everyone is loving it up so bad unless they're doing it on purpose. This was so painfully obvious I just assumed Potato Salad was being intentionally disingenuous as someone so incredibly stupid as as to actually misread Dead Reckoning seemed completely implausible. However I should know better than to underestimate the power of the internet to make you stupid
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Sep 29, 2017 21:51
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Dead Reckoning posted:
I'm also seeing over 920,000 sworn LEOs in the US; your DoJ document comes up ~165,000 short by not including full-time sworn federal officers and part-time sworn local officers. My updated numbers almost halve the rate of LEOs deliberately killed in the line of duty from what you were showing. (0.0813 to 0.0456 per thousand, if I'm doing it right)
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Sep 29, 2017 21:51
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get the gently caress out of here with that nonsense.
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Sep 29, 2017 21:52
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tentative8e8op posted:I was curious if your list included dogs, and it did, so I'm gonna be nitpicking your numbers. By my count your 2014 list has 42 LEO killed by deliberate gunfire, assault, or deliberate vehicular assault in the US. Your list included accidental accidents by drunk drivers, officers killed off duty in like bar fights or at home, corrections officers, someone in the navy who was shot on a ship, someone injured in an accident in 1993, and a half dozen dogs. I don't like how you chose 2014 when 2015 and 2016 were available, but safer, years. quote:Line of Duty Deaths: 151 I chose 2014 because the teacher stat I found on NCES was mid 2013-mid 2014. quote:I'm also seeing over 920,000 sworn LEOs in the US; your DoJ document comes up ~165,000 short by not including full-time sworn federal officers and part-time sworn local officers.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:02
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Dead Reckoning posted:Incorrect, dogs are listed separately at the bottom. e: your edit posted:I left out car crashes, pursuits, accidental gunfire etc. where there wasn't an element of deliberate intent. treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 22:06
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if y'all stop engaging with DR the sooner they'll gently caress off back to GIP and TFR
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Sep 29, 2017 22:08
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Dead Reckoning posted:Literally the exact opposite of my point, which was that I don't have to go to bat for teachers' unions because no one in D&D attacks them. nobody wants you here, go gently caress yourself forever
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Sep 29, 2017 22:15
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Dead Reckoning posted:Incorrect, dogs are listed separately at the bottom. more cops should die
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Sep 29, 2017 22:18
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Dead Reckoning posted:I only post when there's something I disagree with? And the only thing you disagree with is when people criticize the police 
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Sep 29, 2017 22:29
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Dead Reckoning posted:I don't feel the need to type out "I too agree that people should have the right to take a knee during the national anthem, and the taxes should be increased in order to fund the government to the level of its obligations, that the NPS, EPA, FDA, DOE, IRS and BLM should have budgets commensurate with their responsibilities, and that climate change should be our top national priority, amen" every time one of those topics comes up. It's a shame, but if you aren't constantly beaming outrage from every pore in the debate and discussion forum, how will anyone know you're part of the right tribe? I don't really get why everything here is taken so personally.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:36
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Why do they walk into the White house and come out dizzy with a dusty belly and rear end?
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Sep 29, 2017 22:39
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Luceid posted:It's a shame, but if you aren't constantly beaming outrage from every pore in the debate and discussion forum, how will anyone know you're part of the right tribe? Some posters are habitual apologists for police corruption and other posters get sick of hearing from them.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:40
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steinrokkan posted:The justice system is not doing its job because the nation is in love with police, isn't it. The unions could aid the reform process by standing up to abuse of power within its ranks, until they do so, they contribute to the stalemate. Yeah but the police union isn't in the wrong here. Look at it like a piece of machinery that isn't working because something's caught in the gears. The way to fix it is to remove the thing in the gears, not decide the gears are garbage and need to be gotten rid of. The way to fix this is to fix the problems in the justice system that create a lenient atmosphere for lovely cops who kill people, and what the police unions do is irrelevant to fixing that problem. Granted, the largest part of the problem is still that a way bigger portion of american voters don't believe there is a problem, and that's probably going to take a lot longer and be more complicated than the fix to the justice system. Office Pig posted:Actually to me it sounds like you're on Main Paineframe's side of the argument: Thank god.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:41
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Lemming posted:Nobody cares what you say believe, we've figured it out based on the pattern of what you reply to and talk and and defend. You don't give a poo poo about any union but the police union. TBF people are way less likely to respond to something that agrees with their opinion than one they disagree with, him reply to one common type of thing and not another less common type of thing doesn't necessarily mean he agrees with other thing. Thing.
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Sep 29, 2017 22:55
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Neurolimal posted:TBF people are way less likely to respond to something that agrees with their opinion than one they disagree with, him reply to one common type of thing and not another less common type of thing doesn't necessarily mean he agrees with other thing. Thing. How many years of unqualified defense of indefensible killings of people (especially black people) by the police would it take for you to stop giving someone the benefit of the doubt? Is it less than four?
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Sep 29, 2017 23:01
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