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Wingnut Ninja posted:"You can't make a computer program that does what moboards do. It's just too complex." - something my OCS moboards instructor literally said to my class. Probably not with what Lockheed or GD would bid.
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Sep 29, 2017 01:43
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FrozenVent posted:Such as? I've seen a console suddenly show a contact changing course by over 180 degrees for a few seconds before returning to something like the original calculated course.
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Sep 29, 2017 01:54
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Stultus Maximus posted:I've seen a console suddenly show a contact changing course by over 180 degrees for a few seconds before returning to something like the original calculated course. Aircraft radars do this too. You practice, over and over, learning what normal looks like and when you need to reject bad info. You also eventually develop a sense of when you need to do something else because your information is suspect. Like look outside.
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Sep 29, 2017 02:31
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Stultus Maximus posted:I've seen a console suddenly show a contact changing course by over 180 degrees for a few seconds before returning to something like the original calculated course. If losing a plot in such a radical fashion for a few second poses a risk to your collision avoidance, you should already have the GA going and the watertight doors closing.
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Sep 29, 2017 02:36
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FrozenVent posted:If losing a plot in such a radical fashion for a few second poses a risk to your collision avoidance, you should already have the GA going and the watertight doors closing. I always do. gently caress trusting my safety to you lot
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Sep 29, 2017 02:46
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Two Finger posted:I always do. gently caress trusting my safety to you lot Shut the gently caress up and push.
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Sep 29, 2017 02:51
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FrozenVent posted:If losing a plot in such a radical fashion for a few second poses a risk to your collision avoidance, you should already have the GA going and the watertight doors closing. It's an irritation and if you have a paper plot it's easy to just put in the position and confirm that it matches the expected course and speed rather than wait for the machine to unfuck itself and update. Geizkragen posted:Aircraft radars do this too. Or look at your paper plot.
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Sep 29, 2017 02:52
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Stultus Maximus posted:It's an irritation and if you have a paper plot it's easy to just put in the position and confirm that it matches the expected course and speed rather than wait for the machine to unfuck itself and update. I've never had it happen to me to the point where it was an irritant - and I'm easily irritable. I remain firmly of the opinion that the guy doing the paper plot would be way more useful as an extra lookout or radar observer. Especially nowadays, where pretty much all decent navigation radars have AIS overlay, "the ARPA's unreliable!" is a poor argument. AIS is unreliable in a way (you're relying on the other guy having his poo poo set up properly), ARPA is unreliable in another (changes in motion, radar artefacts), but if you have both on the same screen and the vectors overlay within a reasonable margin, you'll see right away if one of them is making GBS threads the bed. Add trails to the mix and you've got an extra layer of protection. The biggest bridge watch team I ever had as OOW / conn officer was like three people. An AB watching the S-band / autopilot, a cadet as a lookout / paper position plot (This was before the ECDIS days), and myself on the X-band / electronic chart. If I'd had additional people handy, I would have put them up as lookout, unless we had to go on hand steering. There's no replacement for a guy going "Hey there's a fishing boat over there!", because drat if that hasn't saved my career (And probably a couple of guy's life) a few times. I would have had to have a lot of qualified people* on hand before I put one on a paper plot, especially in crowded waters. *and chart table real-estate FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 03:01
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LingcodKilla posted:I still can't believe you recognized me in MEPS. My RDC was in goonfleet, He had an Eve screenshot background on his computer and I called him on it.
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Sep 29, 2017 03:24
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M_Gargantua posted:My RDC was in goonfleet, He had an Eve screenshot background on his computer and I called him on it. Lmao I bet you got PTed for that
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Sep 29, 2017 03:30
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Howard Phillips posted:I disagree. Again, this works if it's you and one or two other contacts. More then that and I promise you that the bridge team is not paying attention to something more pressing. Besides, if your radar is that noisy and cluttered I would imagine that the radar data you're using to build your moboard isn't that reliable.
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Sep 29, 2017 13:16
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I've seen more Admirals this week than I've ever seen before. Apparently folks are real interested in keeping 7th fleet from playing bumper boats with their ships.
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Sep 29, 2017 13:23
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The SWO community's obsession with moboards is a result of the Navy not investing in modern ARPA for all of its ships until recently which created countless generations of senior officers who grew up with nothing but grease pencils and popsicle sticks with. Those officers have trained and bred further generations of officers who have no idea how radar actually works, let alone how to properly tune it out set it up. CPA Moboards are basically cargo cult level at this point. Just learn how to properly set up and use your radars. (Moboards are not entirely worthless. Stationing/intercept boards are still pretty useful and wind boards have their uses.) ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 13:26
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Nostalgia4Ass posted:I've seen more Admirals this week than I've ever seen before. Apparently folks are real interested in keeping 7th fleet from playing bumper boats with their ships. Eh. I think most of them are more interested in keeping out of the news, and actual safety is just a side effect.
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Sep 29, 2017 15:31
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ManMythLegend posted:The SWO community's obsession with moboards is a result of the Navy not investing in modern ARPA for all of its ships until recently which created countless generations of senior officers who grew up with nothing but grease pencils and popsicle sticks with. Those officers have trained and bred further generations of officers who have no idea how radar actually works, let alone how to properly tune it out set it up. CPA Moboards are basically cargo cult level at this point. Just learn how to properly set up and use your radars. What happens to ARPA when you're in an environment where you're trying not to radiate?
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Sep 29, 2017 16:59
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Phanatic posted:What happens to ARPA when you're in an environment where you're trying not to radiate? Irrelevant to the discussion because you can't do a CPA moboard without bearing and range data from a radar.
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Sep 29, 2017 17:13
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Phanatic posted:What happens to ARPA when you're in an environment where you're trying not to radiate? Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision. If you're not radiating and you blunder into another ship, welp, you should have been radiating.
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Sep 29, 2017 17:35
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M_Gargantua posted:My RDC was in goonfleet, He had an Eve screenshot background on his computer and I called him on it. I forget how it came out, but in boot camp someone found out I played world of warcraft. One night after lights out my company commander (like an RDC) yells "HAM! GET IN HERE" I loving poo poo and run in there. He turns his laptop around and shows me his WoW character and literally says "Ok how do I spec this guy. Also you can't tell anyone about this." Elendil004 fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Sep 29, 2017 |
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Sep 29, 2017 18:23
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Elendil004 posted:I forget how it came out, but in boot camp someone found out I played world of warcraft. One night after lights out my company commander (like an RDC) yells "HAM! GET IN HERE" I loving poo poo and run in there. He turns his laptop around and shows me his WoW character and literally says "Ok how do I spec this guy. Also you can't tell anyone about this." Did you gently caress up his spec? Not like he can tell anyone.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:29
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Something similar happened to my friend who was really into D&D. One of the RDCs called him into the office to show the new cool book that had come out, still in shrink wrap. "This just came out, you want to take a look at it?" And then the guillotine dropped and he got to do push-ups for an hour, looking at the front cover of the book.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:43
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LingcodKilla posted:Did you gently caress up his spec? Not like he can tell anyone. No he was a nice guy, I got along, respectfully with all my CC's and even hung out a few months later for some beers since I was back on the base for something.
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Sep 29, 2017 18:47
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Something similar happened to my friend who was really into D&D. lol
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Sep 29, 2017 22:59
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Phanatic posted:What happens to ARPA when you're in an environment where you're trying not to radiate? How do submarines not hit anything when the other ships are completely ignorant of their location 10ft below the waves? same question, similar answer.
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Sep 29, 2017 23:05
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M_Gargantua posted:How do submarines not hit anything when the other ships are completely ignorant of their location 10ft below the waves? Seriously this entire conversation is like something out of the Twilight Zone for me. I have never actually seen a moboard used outside of Naval Science courses in ROTC. I haven't seen the physical sheets of paper that are used to do moboards onboard a submarine since roughly 2006, and even then they weren't actually used, they were just an interesting relic in an equipment locker next to the teletype paper and the other useless supplies that we never used but still carried because they hadn't ever been rev'd out of the pre-underways. When I asked about moboards out of curiosity on my last submarine, I was told you can't order them from the supply system anymore (a statement which based on this conversation appears to be of dubious truthfulness but seemed plausible enough at the time). I legitimately can't think of a use for a moboard in a contact management setting. Sensors provide raw data to a centralized contact management system. An operator filters out bad data. The centralized system provides contact information (in intuitive, graphical form) to the OOD, the contact manager, the captain, whoever needs it. It does this for every contact simultaneously and it does it all in much less time than it would take an operator to dick around with a pen and paper in a darkened control room to get CPA information on a single contact. Am I just missing something? Or has the surface fleet not yet caught up to advanced concepts like "filter out bad data" and "computers can work faster than humans"?
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Sep 29, 2017 23:58
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I mean it's important that nav types know how to do moboards and understand the concepts, which in turn helps with understanding motion, relative motion, target angle, etc. I'd never want to use one over a computer though for like no poo poo navigation.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:00
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Cerekk posted:Seriously this entire conversation is like something out of the Twilight Zone for me. I have never actually seen a moboard used outside of Naval Science courses in ROTC. I haven't seen the physical sheets of paper that are used to do moboards onboard a submarine since roughly 2006, and even then they weren't actually used, they were just an interesting relic in an equipment locker next to the teletype paper and the other useless supplies that we never used but still carried because they hadn't ever been rev'd out of the pre-underways. When I asked about moboards out of curiosity on my last submarine, I was told you can't order them from the supply system anymore (a statement which based on this conversation appears to be of dubious truthfulness but seemed plausible enough at the time). I feel the same way reading this thread, it feels like I'm missing something. Then again, we both came from the same source rating, which is pretty much all contact management and training others about contact management.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:14
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my unit used some other command's MAP spots and promoted to third a kid who took two tries to pass his last PRT. Semper fortis.
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Sep 30, 2017 00:46
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maffew buildings posted:my unit used some other command's MAP spots and promoted to third a kid who took two tries to pass his last PRT. Semper fortis. 
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Sep 30, 2017 01:02
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maffew buildings posted:my unit used some other command's MAP spots and promoted to third a kid who took two tries to pass his last PRT. Semper fortis. We're not the Coast Guard,  Shipmate
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Sep 30, 2017 01:12
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So the CG has standards is what you're saying?
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Sep 30, 2017 01:24
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Cerekk posted:Am I just missing something? Or has the surface fleet not yet caught up to advanced concepts like "filter out bad data" and "computers can work faster than humans"? No, the surface Navy has all of that. It might not all be synthesized in one spot depending on platform but we have. It's just that everyone either doesn't trust them at all, or trusts them way too much because in general we are a very dumb community.
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Sep 30, 2017 02:01
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FrozenVent posted:Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision. Another case where your civilian experience doesn't really apply to the military.
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Oct 1, 2017 03:29
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vulturesrow posted:Another case where your civilian experience doesn't really apply to the military. Why is this?
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Oct 1, 2017 03:47
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Because if you're a USN ship and you're radiating, you are being tracked. Edit: And not in a friendly "Just keeping an eye on everything to make sure it's all safe" kind of way. In a "let's absorb every electron that comes off that boat for analysis, and also measure how fast it can turn, slow down, accelerate, and maybe even see what their shift schedule is, and maintain as much information for targeting as we can until they stop broadcasting their location" kind of way.
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Oct 1, 2017 03:48
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While I understand your concern, we're talking about navigation radars here. I don't think the US Navy uses anything fancy for that; I think Furunos were mentioned up thread. If you're in a situation where you don't want to be tracked then yes, by all mean turn off the radar and the AIS. Doing that in the strait of Malacca is ill advised. Military planes landing at civilian airports turn on their transponders don't they? The area where the McCain and Alnic collided is the maritime equivalent of the airspace around O'Hare. FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 03:53
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FrozenVent posted:While I understand your concern, we're talking about navigation radars here. I don't think the US Navy uses anything fancy for that; I think Furunos were mentioned up thread. Military aircraft that are on operational missions are subject to different rules. And they're generally not landing at civilian airfields. I'm also not saying they should never flip the switch to "on." I'm saying that they have different rules, and for good reason.
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Oct 1, 2017 04:06
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I'm not disagreeing with that. What I'm saying is that going by international rule, if you're involved in a collision and your radar was off, you broke the rules. Of course at that point you probably have a bigger problem than admiralty court but 
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Oct 1, 2017 04:13
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I was on the McCain a decade ago and I'm pretty sure they had a Furuno for the exact reasons described. If a foreign power wants to do electromagnetic analysis on a piece of commercial equipment, they could just order one from a catalog.
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Oct 1, 2017 04:24
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I was on the McCain a decade ago and I'm pretty sure they had a Furuno for the exact reasons described. If a foreign power wants to do electromagnetic analysis on a piece of commercial equipment, they could just order one from a catalog. Furono's are standard nav gear, at least on all the ship's I've been on.
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Oct 1, 2017 04:31
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PneumonicBook posted:Furono's are standard nav gear, at least on all the ship's I've been on. Funny, most of the ships I've been on had Sperry radars... including the ones built in Japan.
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Oct 1, 2017 04:37
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