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Mighty Dicktron posted:You're making an assumption on the storytelling that this was contrived, which it is not - remember that things can be introduced early in a work that pay off later. This is especially important to remember when that work is an adaptation!! I feel like there's plenty of things you can complain about with Made in Abyss, but Bondrewd isn't one of them. He and what he does are genuinely wonderfully done. I haven't read the manga, and at this rate I don't plan to. The show has to stand on its own or that's just another problem. The whole 'orphan torture dungeon' thing is contrived in the same way the Saw movies are contrived. You can give any in-universe explanation you want, but it's clear it's all just an excuse for the author to be as gruesome as possible. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 30, 2017 04:28
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Pavlov posted:I haven't read the manga, and at this rate I don't plan to. The show has to stand on its own or that's just another problem. The whole 'orphan torture dungeon' thing is contrived in the same way the Saw movies are contrived. You can give any in-universe explanation you want, but it's clear it's all just an excuse for the author to be as gruesome as possible. Nah.
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Sep 30, 2017 04:37
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I see literally all storytelling is contrived and entirely up to what the creator's whims are. No one creates things that contains things they don't like.
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Sep 30, 2017 04:39
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The point isn't gore for gore's sake, it's to have the characters rebound from it and become better people
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Sep 30, 2017 04:46
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An incredibly important theme in this is that things get insanely, incredibly dark purely for the determination and hope of these kids to pull through in the end.
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Sep 30, 2017 04:49
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i'm pretty sure i've seen pavlov do this with every show i've seen him post in threads for
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Sep 30, 2017 04:50
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El Burbo posted:The point isn't gore for gore's sake, it's to have the characters rebound from it and become better people Ah yes, if only I too could rebound in such directions as "suicidal rabbit" or "agony puddle". Colonel what have we even watched together? I only remember Flip Flappers.
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Sep 30, 2017 05:07
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The Colonel posted:i'm pretty sure i've seen pavlov do this with every show i've seen him post in threads for Oh, so I was right.
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Sep 30, 2017 05:45
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That was good. When I saw Mitty's deathbed I made a little oh nooo
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Sep 30, 2017 07:49
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That was such a bittersweet little touch 
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Sep 30, 2017 07:51
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The one thing I do agree with Pavlov about is the weird sexualization of the children. How many times do you have to zoom in/focus on a person pissing themselves to make a point? There's no way this author doesn't have a hosed up bondage piss fetish.
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Sep 30, 2017 12:14
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There Bias Two posted:The one thing I do agree with Pavlov about is the weird sexualization of the children. How many times do you have to zoom in/focus on a person pissing themselves to make a point? There's no way this author doesn't have a hosed up bondage piss fetish. Unfortunately, the doujinshi the author's done reportedly do little to disprove your point. It's one of the merits the anime has - apparently, it's been downplaying that stuff and attempting to present it in as neutral and matter-of-fact (as opposed to titillating) a way as possible, so that it's at least vaguely defensible as a constant reminder of human frailty in a hostile world.
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Sep 30, 2017 12:28
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Darth Walrus posted:Unfortunately, the doujinshi the author's done reportedly do little to disprove your point. It's one of the merits the anime has - apparently, it's been downplaying that stuff and attempting to present it in as neutral and matter-of-fact (as opposed to titillating) a way as possible, so that it's at least vaguely defensible as a constant reminder of human frailty in a hostile world. Given that knowledge of his previous work, it's kind of hard not to view all the suffering and odd moments of sexualization the characters experience as creepy self-indulgence of the author's fantasies as opposed to an unfiltered perspective of the characters' lives. Is he showing all of their suffering to make a point, or is he doing it to get a boner? And I'm not sure it's all of the former. I appreciate showing the struggles the characters go through, but it's definitely highly gratuitous at times.
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Sep 30, 2017 12:46
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I'm willing to acknowledge that the author is pretty cynically using children to maximise emotional trauma, and obviously makes a big point of juxtaposing horrible things with the happy-go-lucky general atmosphere, but all the edgelord stuff is nonsense. Forgive me if I sound all Josef Mengele here, but using orphan children for experiments is not some untrodden ground or contrivance, either in anime or real life. In fact, it makes perfect sense in their universe given that there seem to be piles of abandoned children living on scraps that nobody wants or cares about. I've watched shows with sadness one-upmanship and I don't get that vibe from this series at all. Unsettling pedo vibe, well, kinda. But that's a whole different can of worms.
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Sep 30, 2017 12:50
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Darth Walrus posted:Unfortunately, the doujinshi the author's done reportedly do little to disprove your point. It's one of the merits the anime has - apparently, it's been downplaying that stuff and attempting to present it in as neutral and matter-of-fact (as opposed to titillating) a way as possible, so that it's at least vaguely defensible as a constant reminder of human frailty in a hostile world. There Bias Two posted:Given that knowledge of his previous work, it's kind of hard not to view all the suffering and odd moments of sexualization the characters experience as creepy self-indulgence of the author's fantasies as opposed to an unfiltered perspective of the characters' lives. Is he showing all of their suffering to make a point, or is he doing it to get a boner? And I'm not sure it's all of the former. I appreciate showing the struggles the characters go through, but it's definitely highly gratuitous at times. You are making it sound as if he's secretely a Guro overfiend. The occasional naked girl is all I've ever seen, none worse than what's already in MiA.
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Sep 30, 2017 13:15
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This was a really good show, head and shoulders above anything else I watched this year, and convinced me to give the manga a chance after being put off at first by crappy scanlations and an excessive focus on naked preteens. Great background painting, great soundtrack, great atmosphere, pretty good plotting, some excellent performances too, and a great (wrenching) finale. One thing I feel like they didn't explain at all is how and why Bondrewd just let Nanachi and Mitty walk. He wasn't even slightly concerned his prize experimental specimens up and took a hike to parts unknown? I guess he can keep an eye on whether or not they're alive using his magical abyss science lightbulbs, but you'd think he would at least send one of his goons to track them down.
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Sep 30, 2017 14:31
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skasion posted:This was a really good show, head and shoulders above anything else I watched this year, and convinced me to give the manga a chance after being put off at first by crappy scanlations and an excessive focus on naked preteens. Great background painting, great soundtrack, great atmosphere, pretty good plotting, some excellent performances too, and a great (wrenching) finale. The fifth layer probably makes that a bit difficult. Also call me crazy, but I think Bondrewd might not be the sanest, most reasonable person. But damned if he isn't as cool as he is monstrous.
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Sep 30, 2017 14:38
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Having not read the manga, I don't know any extra detail, but my impression isn't that he's psychotic and evil, simply obsessed with reaching the bottom and understanding the Abyss at any cost. He already found out what he needed to know from their experiment. He even keeps Nanachi on as a research assistant after he's finished. And he could probably go and get them at any time, so may as well let them go and do what they want because they might do something interesting. I feel like the whole point is to highlight that he's totally rational, but also an emotionless monster. Sort of setting up this whole dichotomy of 'can you explore and understand the Abyss by science and reason alone' or is it an 'unknowable, mystical force that you can only reach the bottom of with desire and heart' kind of deal. Is it magic or is it science?
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Sep 30, 2017 14:49
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Pavlov posted:The arm cutting scene is one thing. That one kind of worked. Introducing a mad scientist to torture tiny orphan girls into immortal, perpetually suffering monstrosities just loses any sense of seriousness. skasion posted:One thing I feel like they didn't explain at all is how and why Bondrewd just let Nanachi and Mitty walk. He wasn't even slightly concerned his prize experimental specimens up and took a hike to parts unknown? I guess he can keep an eye on whether or not they're alive using his magical abyss science lightbulbs, but you'd think he would at least send one of his goons to track them down. Chev fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Sep 30, 2017 |
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Sep 30, 2017 15:00
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Chev posted:The bulb should at least make you realize that he's a man who plans ahead. But also that if he's only getting interested in Nanachi again now that Mitty's dead he probably had more interesting experiments to focus on. He may have been interested in her in the long-term sense. He wanted to see what a being like her could become if left to her own devices.
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Sep 30, 2017 15:09
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Jeza posted:Having not read the manga, I don't know any extra detail, but my impression isn't that he's psychotic and evil, simply obsessed with reaching the bottom and understanding the Abyss at any cost. He already found out what he needed to know from their experiment. He even keeps Nanachi on as a research assistant after he's finished. And he could probably go and get them at any time, so may as well let them go and do what they want because they might do something interesting. Hm I don't know, I personally feel that it is pretty psychotic evil to conduct experiments on small, unwitting children that will agonizingly pervert and ruin their bodies into immortal, mindless blobs and then dump them in a black pit forever. Even if you want to do it for "rational" purpose. He is a real bad man. I guess the manga will probably address this if it shows what he has been up to since Nanachi left, from the show I don't know whether he has bigger fish to fry or if he just doesn't care.
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Sep 30, 2017 15:10
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skasion posted:Hm I don't know, I personally feel that it is pretty psychotic evil to conduct experiments on small, unwitting children that will agonizingly pervert and ruin their bodies into immortal, mindless blobs and then dump them in a black pit forever. Even if you want to do it for "rational" purpose. He is a real bad man. I guess the manga will probably address this if it shows what he has been up to since Nanachi left, from the show I don't know whether he has bigger fish to fry or if he just doesn't care. Well, yeah, obviously Bondrewd is very evil, but he's not some moustache twirling, evil for the sake of evil villain, he's an extremist. He will do anything for the sake of gaining more knowledge of the Abyss and because of that he has his own alien moral standard by which the line between good and evil is determined not by harm or hurt to people, but by harm or hurt to the goal of exploring and understanding the Abyss. This moral incongruity makes him evil from our perspective, but I have no doubt that he both understands that and sees his actions as completely justified and good, and that is what makes him a good and realistic villain, almost every real "villain" thinks they are doing the right thing, that their actions are justified.
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Sep 30, 2017 15:22
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The thing that bothered me the most about the last episode was how the assistant only brought up his concerns to bondrewd after they'd basically filled up a pit with mutated children and were about to experiment on the last two. It was too convenient of an plot exposure device for me. I'd rather Nanachi have come across them going over results from an earlier test or something like that.
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Sep 30, 2017 16:18
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skasion posted:Hm I don't know, I personally feel that it is pretty psychotic evil to conduct experiments on small, unwitting children that will agonizingly pervert and ruin their bodies into immortal, mindless blobs and then dump them in a black pit forever. If I'm not mistaken, Mitty was the only 'immortal' one due to the circumstances that changed her. The ones in the pit at least get to die eventually. Nitrousoxide posted:The thing that bothered me the most about the last episode was how the assistant only brought up his concerns to bondrewd after they'd basically filled up a pit with mutated children and were about to experiment on the last two. Bondrewd did ask him why he was bringing it up so late in the game. He probably needed a few weeks to build up the courage to confront his terrifying white whistle leader. Even when he did, he was really passive about it.
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Sep 30, 2017 16:30
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Command Ant posted:Bondrewd did ask him why he was bringing it up so late in the game. He probably needed a few weeks to build up the courage to confront his terrifying white whistle leader. Even when he did, he was really passive about it. At this point it seems like it's been a few years.
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Sep 30, 2017 16:40
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Martytoof posted:At this point it seems like it's been a few years. From the conversation, it sounded like they had just recently started using orphans after having used cave raiders.
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Sep 30, 2017 17:21
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Yeah, I don't think much time passed at all, though i guess there's an argument to be made in that Mitty learned to read abyssal script. Or maybe she was just reading a regular book?
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Sep 30, 2017 17:56
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From the discussion the other cave raider didn't even know about elevator of doom, only that Bondrewd brought a bunch of outsiders, and children were especially cruel since they couldn't withstand the strain. Would he talk about them returning if he knew what Bondrewd was actually doing? He even invited him to have a look (maybe from the inside). Chev posted:Yeah, I don't think much time passed at all, though i guess there's an argument to be made in that Mitty learned to read abyssal script. Or maybe she was just reading a regular book? That was Abyss script on the top. It's not hard and they mentioned they only use it phonetically. Lurking Haro fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Sep 30, 2017 |
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Sep 30, 2017 18:03
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Bomdrewds assistants all wear masks, I think that guy was just some rando black whistle that was at his outpost
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Sep 30, 2017 18:06
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I don't know if I can take Bonedrewd seriously as a villain with how his name is written. Every time I see it I just think BONEDUDE. 
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Sep 30, 2017 19:18
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Command Ant posted:From the conversation, it sounded like they had just recently started using orphans after having used cave raiders. Seems like Nanachi has had a lot of time to establish a home and experiment on ways to release Mitty which in my mind is a lot longer than a few weeks. I think it's also meant to imply that the one grave stone she puts up for the cave raider that she kills means that the rest of the similar looking markers are also grave stones (?) which were established in the same circumstances. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 30, 2017 |
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Sep 30, 2017 21:07
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. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 30, 2017 21:40
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that image is as incomprehensible as your reasoning for posting it
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Sep 30, 2017 21:52
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dogsicle posted:that image is as incomprehensible as your reasoning for posting it
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Sep 30, 2017 21:57
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Why would you post manga spoilers????
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Sep 30, 2017 21:59
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Grouchio posted:It's an image explaining why Bonedrewd is the most complex/best villain in recent history, something I agree with. this is the answer
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Sep 30, 2017 22:00
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i regret making that gif
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Sep 30, 2017 22:01
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Grouchio posted:It's an image explaining why Bonedrewd is the most complex/best villain in recent history, something I agree with. i mean halfway up this page there are people who discussed it with more clarity and depth than anything in that image
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Sep 30, 2017 22:01
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there's a thread where you can post manga spoilers untagged instead of hiding every post you make in a black bar. also i'm not sure why you want to bring an /a/ macro over to SA where it doesn't have the tongue-in-cheek context to make it funny.
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Sep 30, 2017 22:07
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El Burbo posted:Why would you post manga spoilers???? Ah gently caress it all I never do anything right here. Forget I said anything.
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Sep 30, 2017 22:12
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