Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Cheez
Apr 29, 2013

Someone doesn't like a shitty gimmick I like?

:siren:
TIME FOR ME TO WHINE ABOUT IT!
:siren:
Oh, Heavy Sigh, I tossed you a message over Youtube about your LP but I just realized I probably shouldn't trust its functionality these days. If it didn't go through, I have no idea how else to contact you about something. Wasn't anything urgent, but there was something I thought I'd ask about anyway.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

I had no idea Richard from Link's Awakening, as well as his music, were from a different game but considering all the cameos LA I'm not surprised.

Heavy Sigh
Nov 13, 2011

They've planted corn everywhere.

Soiled Meat

Cheez posted:

Oh, Heavy Sigh, I tossed you a message over Youtube about your LP but I just realized I probably shouldn't trust its functionality these days. If it didn't go through, I have no idea how else to contact you about something. Wasn't anything urgent, but there was something I thought I'd ask about anyway.

Just leave a comment about it on whatever video it pertains to and I'll try to answer it.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Miacis posted:

And the boss theme is a faster version of Off To War, the "Danger encoming" dialogue music in Fire Emblem 3/12. It's a weird choice, but it works surprisingly well as a boss tune.

Thanks for saying this, I was wondering about it for a while but always forgot to google myself! The boss theme in -inf is crazy, I love it!

Tyty
Feb 20, 2012

Night-vision Goggles Equipped!




Welcome to what I guess is tutorial world, where we get told what to do by message boxes for the better part of 25 minutes. There's some levels at the end of it all though.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

I generally like using the cape's slowfall feature but yeah, flying over a level feels like cheating myself out of some fun. Unless the level was garbage to begin with.
Although I never actually learned the constant flight trick - are you supposed to tap a button at the correct timing or something?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Crazy Achmed posted:

I generally like using the cape's slowfall feature but yeah, flying over a level feels like cheating myself out of some fun. Unless the level was garbage to begin with.
Although I never actually learned the constant flight trick - are you supposed to tap a button at the correct timing or something?

Press forward to dive, press back to flare the cape. If you press back at periodic intervals, you can maintain or slowly increase/decrease your altitude.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

Yeah I never even bother pressing forward. Just tapping back rhythmically is enough to keep Mario going.

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
If you hold back (or press it too often), Mario will just sort of lean back into the cape and float downward. If you wait a second or two between pressing back, you will get a burst of height each time you do. You can lower the delay between these periods by pressing forward to make Mario lean into a dive, and if you actually start a dive you'll gain a lot more height when you press back, as well as gaining horizontal speed from the dive.

It's actually possible to exert a surprising amount of control over Mario's flight with the cape; it's a pretty nuanced powerup I always found very fun as a kid.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Well bugger me. I only ever played through SMW once, and did so without a manual or anyone who knew to tell me what to do. I always kept holding forward, then wondered what this crazy move where mario faceplants at full speed into the ground was meant to be useful for.
I think there was one castle level that had a super long lava pit that you had to fly over, and I always wondered how you were meant to get there.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



Man both of these levels are so good. We really are in the middle of best world.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

This is probably the best place to ask: is there a hack for Super Metroid that does Fusion/ZM style item markers on the map?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Mak0rz posted:

This is probably the best place to ask: is there a hack for Super Metroid that does Fusion/ZM style item markers on the map?

Not that I'm aware of. Super Metroid's map hasn't gotten a lot of attention; the most advanced modifications I've seen to it are to add more room shapes and I think one that shows doors.

Probably you're running into the standard ROM hack problem -- the kinds of people that make ROM hacks aren't usually interested in making the game easier, even if by "easier" it's just "I know which zones I've 100%'d and which I haven't so I don't have to scour literally the entire map for one missile tank".

That said, if you want a more authoritative answer, ask on the Metroid Construction forums (in particular, their Super Metroid subforum).

EDIT: vvv oh, I was thinking the display that says "You've found 3/8 missile tanks, 1/3 E-tanks, and 2/180 powerbomb tanks in this zone" in Fusion.

TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 4, 2017

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido

I don't believe so and the reason would be that there's no function Super Metroid by default that allows for updating map tiles like ZM and Fusion do. You can denote all your items with the dot icon but there's no way to change the map tile after picking it up. Now, with assembly I'm sure it could be done but I don't think I've ever seen it in any hack. Redesign Axeil Edition might have been the closest but even then the map updates that hack does are drawn with sprites, not tiles.

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
FP, why did you kill Moonwalking Koopa? What did he do to you? He just wanted to bring you joy.

I find it hilarious that TyTy is posting videos of a hack that says it's bad design to have jumps you have to leap off Yoshi to make and one of the top 10 in this hack is built around that exact concept.

Is there a usable baby green Yoshi anywhere in the game data?

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

FPzero posted:

I don't believe so and the reason would be that there's no function Super Metroid by default that allows for updating map tiles like ZM and Fusion do. You can denote all your items with the dot icon but there's no way to change the map tile after picking it up. Now, with assembly I'm sure it could be done but I don't think I've ever seen it in any hack. Redesign Axeil Edition might have been the closest but even then the map updates that hack does are drawn with sprites, not tiles.

Yeah the circle -> dot thing is what I was thinking of. Actually anything that just displays all of them would be a huge improvement. I'm still not sure why they decided to only show certain arbitrary items in SM.

Would be nice to have markers for other things too (e.g. doors, recharge stations). This is for someone who's interested in playing it but would like the map to be a little more useful.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

FP, why did you kill Moonwalking Koopa? What did he do to you? He just wanted to bring you joy.

I find it hilarious that TyTy is posting videos of a hack that says it's bad design to have jumps you have to leap off Yoshi to make and one of the top 10 in this hack is built around that exact concept.

Is there a usable baby green Yoshi anywhere in the game data?

I think the key to Mass Extinction is that it's extremely explicit about where you should ditch Yoshi. That takes out a lot of the frustration that mandatory Yoshi jumps can lead to.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido

Mak0rz posted:

Yeah the circle -> dot thing is what I was thinking of. Actually anything that just displays all of them would be a huge improvement. I'm still not sure why they decided to only show certain arbitrary items in SM.

Would be nice to have markers for other things too (e.g. doors, recharge stations). This is for someone who's interested in playing it but would like the map to be a little more useful.

Actually markers for recharges do exist in the game already, but until recently we didn't have an easy way to move them around in the Map Editor. As for Doors, some people have redrawn their map tiles to have door indicators but if you're thinking of something like the nice variety of icons that Samus Returns has for doors, we don't have an easy solution there.

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


FPzero posted:



Man both of these levels are so good. We really are in the middle of best world.

That first level hit all the right sweet spots with me. Straight forward but difficult platforming challenge throughout, didn't overstay its welcome, fantastic visuals and music, basically something I could just run through without too much worry. Just like most of the Super Mario World levels, honestly.

The second one was alright but I think I'm just a lot more receptive to standard Mario levels than puzzle-y ones.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

FPzero posted:

Actually markers for recharges do exist in the game already, but until recently we didn't have an easy way to move them around in the Map Editor. As for Doors, some people have redrawn their map tiles to have door indicators but if you're thinking of something like the nice variety of icons that Samus Returns has for doors, we don't have an easy solution there.

Oh right I forgot about the recharge indicators.

Just simple doors would be fine. Anything that indicates that rooms are connected.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
I appreciate that both of those levels were basically deep dives on a specific game mechanic. About the worst I can say about them is that they were both a little long.

Strange Matter
Oct 6, 2009

Ask me about Genocide

FPzero posted:



Man both of these levels are so good. We really are in the middle of best world.
So is the lesson of this episode that the best SMW levels are actually Kirby levels?

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


Strange Matter posted:

So is the lesson of this episode that the best SMW levels are actually Kirby levels?

Have we had a bad level with Kirby music yet? Hm...

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Strange Matter posted:

So is the lesson of this episode that the best SMW levels are actually Kirby levels?

Kirby is consistently good, so this checks out.

Morroque
Mar 6, 2013

Strange Matter posted:

So is the lesson of this episode that the best SMW levels are actually Kirby levels?

Watching through this LP and seriously looking at what makes a good level in a Mario game for the first time inevitably led me to consider what constitutes good level design for other games. The quandary of what makes a good Kirby level seems to operate entirely on very different concepts.

What are normally considered the "good" Kirby games tend not to focus on platforming as such and more on the combat. There are the times when a level is set up to be very effective when coupled with one particular movement ability; wheel or high jump tend to reliably have sections designed for their use. However, since Kirby can have any number of movement options available to him at any given time, most of the levels themselves tend to be rather simple in construction.

The Kirby games which have level set pieces that I remember on their own, the ones most effective at communicating a sense of place, also tend to be the games where Kirby's movement options are more limited. (64, Dreamland 3, and the non-GBA version of Adventure.) For the others, most of it tends to be a bit more limited in what they can do, relying more on aesthetics than layout. A side effect is that it makes the times when it does do something interesting stick out all the more, such as the Bubbles of Aquarius that the VLDC beach level did. (I don't know if this holds for the newer ones though, as I am now too poor to afford the newer consoles.)

When I ran the fan games section at one of the larger Kirby fansites, ROM hacking never took off. Most of the fandom back then tended much younger than other Nintendo sites, so the few who could wrap their heads around something as complex as SNES assembly were often absconded away to deal with other tech things fansites had to handle first - leaving not much focus for hacking. There were rumours that the Japanese fandom was able to make a graphical level editor for Dreamland 3, but it never quite crossed the pond for us. The idea for a Kirby level design contest would probably be much more difficult than a Mario one.

SystemLogoff
Feb 19, 2011

End Session?

Kirby romhacking never really took off because the games use an insane amount of compression. Different types as well, making free space and tool creation a pain in the rear end.

Morroque
Mar 6, 2013

SystemLogoff posted:

Kirby romhacking never really took off because the games use an insane amount of compression. Different types as well, making free space and tool creation a pain in the rear end.

Then it was probably for the best we were too young to even get far enough to discover that. Saved us the heartache. :v:

Strange Matter
Oct 6, 2009

Ask me about Genocide

SystemLogoff posted:

Kirby romhacking never really took off because the games use an insane amount of compression. Different types as well, making free space and tool creation a pain in the rear end.
It's remarkable that people have figured this kind of stuff out in the first place. Was the development process well documented, or did the ancients crack open the first Kirby ROMs to see how they work and just said "Nope, let's just put that back where we found it..."

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007

Strange Matter posted:

So is the lesson of this episode that the best SMW levels are actually Kirby levels?
Mass Extinction reminded me of Animal Antics/Pothole Panic in the DKC series, except using Yoshis instead of animal buddies. It even had "no Yoshis past this point" signs, except the prize was further progression in the level instead of a Banana Coin or something like that.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

get that OUT of my face posted:

Mass Extinction reminded me of Animal Antics/Pothole Panic in the DKC series, except using Yoshis instead of animal buddies.

Yeah, the signposting and style of the level (particularly the "escalating variations on a theme") felt very DKC.

AlphaKretin
Dec 25, 2014

A vase to face encounter.

...Vase to meet you?

...

GARVASE DAY!

Not to say the level was bad or anything, but I feel like losing your Yoshi being an instant failure condition is kind of a flaw with that level. Not that I'm sure how you'd resolve that, or if it's even possible, but it kinda rubs me the wrong way to so easily be able to just have to kill yourself and start over.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

AlphaKretin posted:

Not to say the level was bad or anything, but I feel like losing your Yoshi being an instant failure condition is kind of a flaw with that level. Not that I'm sure how you'd resolve that, or if it's even possible, but it kinda rubs me the wrong way to so easily be able to just have to kill yourself and start over.

That's a fair point, and it could largely have been resolved by adding floors/walls to the areas between "no Yoshi past this point" signs, so that when Yoshi runs off you can still retrieve him. The level does have other "guess I have to commit suicide" moments as well, though, for example if you use up both of the shells during the red Yoshi section and thus can't kill the Rip Van Winkle fish.

(Incidentally, the fact that you can kill the fish, not pick up the coin from fireballing it, go offscreen, and have it come back is super dumb)

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

AlphaKretin posted:

Not to say the level was bad or anything, but I feel like losing your Yoshi being an instant failure condition is kind of a flaw with that level. Not that I'm sure how you'd resolve that, or if it's even possible, but it kinda rubs me the wrong way to so easily be able to just have to kill yourself and start over.

Yeah I was thinking that too. The totally trivial solution of "no death pits" and would have been fine.

I dont know
Aug 9, 2003

That Guy here...

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

That's a fair point, and it could largely have been resolved by adding floors/walls to the areas between "no Yoshi past this point" signs, so that when Yoshi runs off you can still retrieve him.

But then you would lose the Mass Extinction joke, and the level would have to be renamed.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

I dont know posted:

But then you would lose the Mass Extinction joke, and the level would have to be renamed.

I think they're talking about taking out death pits other than the "no Yoshi allowed" pits, so that you can't accidentally lose Yoshi before the sign and get stuck.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido

Actually, the death pits at the end of each section are required to make the level's gimmick work. See, you can only have one yoshi per level at a time otherwise duplicate yoshis will turn into 1ups. By dropping them into pits at the end of each section, you allow the game to reset the "is there a yoshi in the level" flag, allowing you to get the next yoshi.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

FPzero posted:

Actually, the death pits at the end of each section are required to make the level's gimmick work. See, you can only have one yoshi per level at a time otherwise duplicate yoshis will turn into 1ups. By dropping them into pits at the end of each section, you allow the game to reset the "is there a yoshi in the level" flag, allowing you to get the next yoshi.

Right obviously the death pits under the Yoshi jumps would be required, but I'm referring to any point before that (some of the lakes were bottomless, for example).

I was only half awake when watching this update but didn't you lose your horse at some point by hitting an enemy just before the jump pit, after which he ran right into it? A block to catch him by the sign or something would help with that.

liquidypoo
Aug 23, 2006

Chew on that... you overgrown son of a bitch.

:siren: FF6 Rando Part 34 - It's ???? :siren:

We're back! FeyerbrandX and wife are back from their two week long bender, and we have a special guest for the final dungeon! Yeah, I got Tyty in my video. Pulled some strings. Called in some favors. No big deal.

I totally, absolutely, 100% do not get lost at all in this video. Also, we totally use more than two parties. Yep.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

Its the only way to be sure

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



The Top 3 levels are here and all of them have the benefit of just being good, fun levels. I think 3rd place might actually be my favorite level in the contest.

  • Locked thread