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Neurolimal posted:Genuine, not loaded question here: why are there more gun deaths in america than any other gun-legal country? I think that it's not legal to/not possible to get funding for research that would answer that question
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Oct 2, 2017 20:21
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Strict liability for anything involving guns, their manufacture or sale. Execution of any potential "good guy with a gun" who doesn't charge into any nearby mass shooting heedless of their own safety for cowardice before the enemy.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:22
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Dead Reckoning posted:That's at least an honest argument. I don't agree with banning guns, but I understand it and I understand why people are in favor of it. I don't get people who look at a mass shooting and think, "well, the most important thing we can do here is to make sure that the guns have to be loud so that people have fair warning, and try to make it so that the shooter gives them a decent interval in which to attempt escape." Odd that you can understand a tone deaf argument when it's someone else making it. Can you possibly make the stretch to understanding why you gun advocate fucks popping out of the woodwork to suddenly defend your little metal toy and exactly the meaning of a 18th century phrase about militia less than a day after nearly a hundred people got shot by one man makes you a giant loving rear end in a top hat regardless
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Oct 2, 2017 20:22
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LeJackal posted:Take away your ability to probate people that disagree with you and playground taunts is all that's left? They should Hellban you from any threads where the word 'gun control' appears. It would be a very effective way to prevent you getting banned constantly, some sort of 'LeJackal control'.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:22
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twodot posted:I think this is likely just poorly stated, but this is a very bad end goal. Would you prefer an end goal of reduced firearm related injury and mortality? I see it as a public health issue like smoking or drinking. I believe reducing prevalence even of legal and registered guns would contribute to this goal firstly by reducing suicide and accidental injury, and secondly by reducing weapon transfers into the illegal economy which principally occurs through theft of legally owned weapons if I recall correctly. Jackel correctly in my opinion points out ending the drug war way make a larger impact, though that doesn't mean decreasing weapon availability would not make a difference itself. Are there any reasonable estimates of true gun prevalence in Brazil, including those owned illegally? Strong Antigun laws don't necessarily mean low prevalence, as gun rights activists like to point out.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:23
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Neurolimal posted:Genuine, not loaded question here: why are there more gun deaths in america than any other gun-legal country? May have to narrow the question. The causes of spree shootings, a more typical murder or assault, and suicides can be pretty disparate.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:24
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Neurolimal posted:Genuine, not loaded question here: why are there more gun deaths in america than any other gun-legal country? any answer to this would be very long and complicated, and would have to start with asking which specific country you were looking at. in particular, you would need to know in what sense guns were "legal" in that country: in the US there is effectively no regulation because while states can pass whatever laws they want, other states can basically legally inject all the illegal guns into circulation they want while looking the other way.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:25
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Strict liability for anything involving guns, their manufacture or sale. Never going to happen, that case law has been settled for going on 20 years. The cases in the early 90s did drive a number of manufacturers out of business or force them to change their markets.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:27
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Party Plane Jones posted:Never going to happen, that case law has been settled for going on 20 years. The cases in the early 90s did drive a number of manufacturers out of business or force them to change their markets. pretty sure the case law was settled via legislation, so it would be easy to repeal that legislation
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Oct 2, 2017 20:29
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Squalid posted:Would you prefer an end goal of reduced firearm related injury and mortality?
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Oct 2, 2017 20:29
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Squalid posted:Would you prefer an end goal of reduced firearm related injury and mortality? I see it as a public health issue like smoking or drinking. I believe reducing prevalence even of legal and registered guns would contribute to this goal firstly by reducing suicide and accidental injury, and secondly by reducing weapon transfers into the illegal economy which principally occurs through theft of legally owned weapons if I recall correctly. yeah you have specific end goals that you're trying to accomplish by reducing guns, reducing guns isn't the end in itself. it so obviously achieves those end goals that you can shortcut into thinking it's an end in itself though.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:30
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I'm glad open carry saved so many lives in Las Vegas. Good to see only a few people died because God Fearing Real Americans were able to take out the shooter instead of fleeing like the sheltered cockroaches they are.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:34
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wait, wrong universe
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Oct 2, 2017 20:34
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LeJackal posted:The gun control endgame is confiscation of all weapons except by agents of the state, and a total legal and practical monopoly of force without consequence. It's effectively impossible to resist the police, let alone the military, with conventional arms, even if you wanted to (which you shouldn't, because we live in a democratic society).
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Oct 2, 2017 20:37
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eviltastic posted:May have to narrow the question. The causes of spree shootings, a more typical murder or assault, and suicides can be pretty disparate. There is a strong and oft neglected argument that the causes of spree shootings and suicides are linked and overlapping. Spree shootings are usually a subtype of gun suicides.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:38
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LeJackal posted:The gun control endgame is confiscation of all weapons except by agents of the state, and a total legal and practical monopoly of force without consequence. I mean, yeah.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:38
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Neurolimal posted:Genuine, not loaded question here: why are there more gun deaths in america than any other gun-legal country? It's very complicated. One interesting point is that even when you control for education, income, and population density, African American communities have much higher rates of violent crime than similar white communities. There are probably several reasons for this, including the phenomenon of under/over policing which reduces trust in police to resolve conflicts and contribute to people looking to solve a personal problem themselves. When asked why violence is so bad in their communities, many people involved in Chicago gangs will say the old drug bosses who used to keep order were all put in jail, reducing capacity for peaceful conflict resolution. Clearly there are a lot of issues with mass incarceration weapons prevalence (I believe), race, and community trust at play.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:39
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The gun control 'debate' is a really great snapshot of USA politics in tyool 2017. Daily civic life in America is so profoundly alienating and unjust that Americans constantly snap and try to kill as many of their fellow citizens as possible before killing themselves. The democrat solution: disarm the entire population so they just quietly suicide or worst case drive a truck into a crowd! The republican solution: do nothing! humans are at best second class citizens to the real people, corporations!
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Oct 2, 2017 20:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There is a strong and oft neglected argument that the causes of spree shootings and suicides are linked and overlapping. Spree shootings are usually a subtype of gun suicides. Yeah I agree, maybe "disparate" was the wrong word to use. Multifaceted would've been better.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:44
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Wakko posted:The democrat solution: disarm the entire population You will literally never find a Dem with enough courage in their convictions to call for something this drastic. Instead we're going to get a "ban the scary looking guns" bill that will die in committee and would have done nothing but piss off people if it had passed.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There is a strong and oft neglected argument that the causes of spree shootings and suicides are linked and overlapping. Spree shootings are usually a subtype of gun suicides. Anthropologists noticed this connection in Malaysia in the 19th century custom of "running amok," when a man, typically after being publicly shamed by adultery or something, would take a sword and go wild attacking some public place like a market until they are finally killed. If they were somehow subdued the perpetrators would claim temporary insanity. Suicide is of course prohibited for Muslims so some commentators have suggested it was basically one semi-rationalized Medieval suicide by cop
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Oct 2, 2017 20:48
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Wakko posted:The gun control 'debate' is a really great snapshot of USA politics in tyool 2017. I honestly think that spree shootings of today have much more to do with men reclaiming masculine power in a society where masculine patriarchal power is increasingly threatened. This is mostly speculation, but would explain why the shooters are almost always men.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:00
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Squalid posted:Anthropologists noticed this connection in Malaysia in the 19th century custom of "running amok," when a man, typically after being publicly shamed by adultery or something, would take a sword and go wild attacking some public place like a market until they are finally killed. If they were somehow subdued the perpetrators would claim temporary insanity. Suicide is of course prohibited for Muslims so some commentators have suggested it was basically one semi-rationalized Medieval suicide by cop Yup. With this guy, my guess is that it was a combination of 1) (Mail-order?) wife left him, and 2) blew all his money on the slots, so 3) gently caress those happy people having fun BLAZE O GLORY
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Oct 2, 2017 21:09
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Democrazy posted:I honestly think that spree shootings of today have much more to do with men reclaiming masculine power in a society where masculine patriarchal power is increasingly threatened. This is mostly speculation, but would explain why the shooters are almost always men. Read Mark Ames' book Going Postal.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yup. well if he wasn't a big gun nut before this (and he doesn't seem to have been), clearly he didn't blow all his money on slots. even in america getting 10-20 guns like he apparently had isn't free.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:12
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evilweasel posted:well if he wasn't a big gun nut before this (and he doesn't seem to have been), clearly he didn't blow all his money on slots. even in america getting 10-20 guns like he apparently had isn't free. Dude apparently owned a plane and took hunting trips to Alaska. He probably had lots of money to burn.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:15
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He accomplished everything he wanted to in life and decided to end it all trolling the gun nuts by shooting up a bunch of them with an honest-to-god type 2 receiver AK-47.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:20
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I've not been able to find this anywhere because of all the chaff being thrown about — did the shooter survive into custody?
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Oct 2, 2017 21:24
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evilweasel posted:well if he wasn't a big gun nut before this (and he doesn't seem to have been), clearly he didn't blow all his money on slots. even in america getting 10-20 guns like he apparently had isn't free. For loss-of-status suicides it's not the absolute but the relative wealth loss that seems to hit people. Like, maybe he just had to sell his 350k house. Or maybe it was just the wife leaving him and Vegas as such didn't have a role at all. I believe Vegas has the highest overall suicide rate of anywhere in the country though so I'm guessing that gambling played some kind of role.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:26
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mdemone posted:I've not been able to find this anywhere because of all the chaff being thrown about — did the shooter survive into custody? found dead in room; self-inflicted gunshot
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Oct 2, 2017 21:27
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Candlelight Virgil posted:found dead in room; self-inflicted gunshot The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:28
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It's really morbid thinking about these bullets raining down from the 32nd floor and just impaling the victims through the tops of their skulls while they were unwittingly doing the "boot scoot and boogie."
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Oct 2, 2017 21:40
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jesus christ lejackal is there any situation you would ever support gun control? as for the shooter, apparently he was wealthy as gently caress, happy, retired, had a girlfriend, etc he was p much living the dream, and decided to murder a poo poo ton of people cause who the hell knows why
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Oct 2, 2017 21:40
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I would never support gun control. THese atrocities are the price other people pay for my freedoms.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:42
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The inevitable lejackal posting response.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:43
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The Kingfish posted:I would never support gun control. THese atrocities are the price other people pay for my freedoms. https://twitter.com/nycjim/status/914948897465946112
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Oct 2, 2017 21:43
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Democrazy posted:I honestly think that spree shootings of today have much more to do with men reclaiming masculine power in a society where masculine patriarchal power is increasingly threatened. This is mostly speculation, but would explain why the shooters are almost always men. Certainly toxic masculinity is the proximate motivator for a number of these omnicidal angry white men. A functioning society would have community structures to channel these people back into some kind of productive role. Left to their own devices long enough, a growing population of these types gives you a Sturmabteilung.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:46
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The Kingfish posted:I would never support gun control. THese atrocities are the price other people pay for my freedoms. Do you spend a moment in silent reflection on all the lives lost to DUIs every time you open a beer?
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Oct 2, 2017 21:48
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In my ideal world the 2nd amendment gets changed to allow for some restrictions so the people who want things to be literally interpreted can't whine. Do we even know what weapons he was using?
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Oct 2, 2017 21:48
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The Kingfish posted:I would never support gun control. THese atrocities are the price other people pay for my freedoms. I do actually believe this. I just said it in a funny way.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:51
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