|
Eyes Only posted:It isn't gimped at all. Every skylake x cpu has the same full throughput AVX512 (64 single-precision FLOPs per cycle per core). Exactly double that of Haswell/Broadwell/consumer skylake. Tons of people have tested them on various boards. It's kind of concerning that every reviewer who commented about this got it wrong because I can't actually find any information from Intel to suggest that the i7 SKUs would be any different (how would they be anyway? They're all based on the same die) I mean, it should be pretty trivial to test. Pin your threads to 6 specific cores with Process Lasso, see if the 7900X beats the 7800X by a margin of ~2:1 or not in something like Prime95. One would think that it would show up on the efficiency results, not that most reviewers ran those before pronouncing SKL-X awful. It's perfectly possible for Intel to fuse off specific execution units though. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Oct 2, 2017 |
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 06:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 17:38 |
|
|
There is a dedicated AVX-512 FMA on port 5 of the Skylake Server core on top of the AVX-512 unit afforded by the fusion of ports 0 and 1, and Intel is definitely using it as a point of segmentation for Xeon SPs, at least. See the GROMACS section of this ServeTheHome article for proof: https://www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-silver-4116-linux-benchmarks-and-review/ Intel details the differences between Skylake and Skylake Server in the latest software optimization manual; there's a useful block diagram that shows this arrangement: https://software.intel.com/sites/default/files/managed/9e/bc/64-ia-32-architectures-optimization-manual.pdf That said, it's entirely possible that all the consumer parts have the dedicated AVX-512 FMA enabled on all SKUs and that Intel PR didn't know what it was talking about when it briefed people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 09:11
|
|
|
Is it possible that Intel enabled full AVX512 via BIOS/microcode updates just before or after the launch? I remember that a lot of reviewers complained about last minute BIOS updates with significant performance impact hours before the NDA expired.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 10:58
|
|
|
TheJeffers posted:If you look at gaming alone, sure, but that's a waste of a $1000 CPU (or even a $600 CPU). Tech Report recently added streaming benchmarks to their suite and the Skylake-X parts look awesome for single-machine streaming at 1080p60 (especially in the case of the i7-7820X versus Threadrippers). At least in their benchmarks, productivity and power efficiency are competitive with, if not superior to, AMD's stuff, too. "Shockingly bad" is for stuff like Vega 10. Ok, ok, but I guess I'm thinking of the platform as a whole, destroying CPUs if you swap between kaby and skylake and the cmos isn't reset, and so on. Basically the whole thing feels like it's a bit half baked.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 13:58
|
|
|
a german youtuber filmed der8auer at a launch event where he reveals that the CFL/Z270 incompatibility is due to increased current from the additional cores. Intel reassigned some reserved and iGPU pins to CPU Vcc/GND to stay within specs for the socket. Every Z170/Z270 board manufacturer handled these reserved pins differently so there's a chance that some would kill a CFL instantly due to wrong pinout which is why Intel decided to make all of them incompatible. http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Coffee-Lake-Codename-266775/News/Z270-Inkompatibilitaet-Grund-1240154/
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2017 14:38
|
|
|
eames posted:a german youtuber filmed der8auer at a launch event where he reveals that the CFL/Z270 incompatibility is due to increased current from the additional cores. Fine - then by all rights the 8C/16T 14nm Kabys they're putting Z390 out for should work *fine* in a Z370 board. Oh, no? They had to 'add more VCC pins?' Sure. Potential logic aside, I can't help but think this is Intel's way of recouping cash for everyone who *didn't* buy Sky-X/X299.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 00:11
|
|
|
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Or in this case, desperation. Considering Kaby/Coffee were never supposed to exist when they designed the 1151 socket in the first place, I imagine it also was never intended to have 6 core CPUs either. Intel needed a stop-gap, a stop-gap that was going to offer some form of performance increase while being trapped on the same 14nm process as the 3 CPUs before it. They may have also heard by this point (2 or so years ago) that AMD was going to offer 6/8 cores in the consumer platform. Whats the cheapest, fastest way to address this problem? More cores based on the prior arch, in a re-pinned version of the same socket and a slight chipset revision to make it work. Then adapt the Cannon Lake chipsets (what would have theoretically been Z270 before the 10nm disaster) to the new pattern, and now you can offer forward compatibility ... if not backwards. Considering the % of home users who actually upgrade CPUs while keeping boards, which is probably sub-10%, thats likely worth the sacrifice from Intels perspective. Doesn't do anything to make the situation better, but from Intel's perspective, I imagine it was the best option they could bang out. Hard to overstate the impact the 10nm debacle has had.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
Our drat supplier was supposed to assemble and burn in a few Skylake-SP systems for us but in a panic because we threatened to cancel the order after numerous slips shipped it to us all in component boxes. And didn't send us HSFs either. Rather than spend ages on the back and forth just going to buy some myself. Anyone know of good hsfs for socket 3647? I was looking at Dynatron, the B11 3U. Might go with their 1U instead actually. Something low profile is good, they are going in open cases with some crazy large PCIe cards.  (No golds because $$$$)
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 00:38
|
|
|
Does the push down the lineup also trickle down to Xeons/ECC? A 4C i3/E3 would be p. cool.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 02:45
|
|
|
Cygni posted:Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Or in this case, desperation. Considering Kaby/Coffee were never supposed to exist when they designed the 1151 socket in the first place, I imagine it also was never intended to have 6 core CPUs either. Intel needed a stop-gap, a stop-gap that was going to offer some form of performance increase while being trapped on the same 14nm process as the 3 CPUs before it. They may have also heard by this point (2 or so years ago) that AMD was going to offer 6/8 cores in the consumer platform. I have the upgrade itch (still rocking a 2500k overclocked) but this is exactly makes me think whether to pass on Coffee Lake and wait for (allegedly?) H2 2018 for the upcoming Z390 + 8C/16T - http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/mystery-solved-z390-chipset-will-support-intel-8-core-processors.html - what are you guys on similar old builds and planning to upgrade going to do and what do you suggest?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 04:28
|
|
|
I personally doubt they would do 8 core on 14nm, in part because they wouldnt be able to do it in the 65w-95w window without gimping clocks on these cores. So I imagine the 8 core is Ice Lake, which is at least a year away. And with Intel's own admissions about the performance of 10nm, I would expect the mature 14nm process to be competitive in single thread stuff at least for a loooongggg time. I'm looking at replacing my Skylake i5 with a Coffee Lake i7 partially so I can gift the i5 to my brother, but I personally think 6/12 on Coffee Lake is gonna be strong for a long long time in the future.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 04:59
|
|
|
Cygni posted:Doesn't do anything to make the situation better, but from Intel's perspective, I imagine it was the best option they could bang out. Hard to overstate the impact the 10nm debacle has had. Sounds like there's a story I missed. Something going on beyond, "This is a little harder than we thought, guys, so there will be a substantial delay" ?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 14:05
|
|
|
Gyrotica posted:Sounds like there's a story I missed. Something going on beyond, "This is a little harder than we thought, guys, so there will be a substantial delay" ? In intel's world, delayed by a year and a half with no specific end in sight is pretty loving bad. It's completely blown up their historical cadence. It's so bad that Cannon Lake may not ever even make it to production, because at that point why not just go with Ice Lake because it'll basically be done by then. Intel's advantage has always been that they're years ahead of their competitors and so a substantial delay means that they've lost large chunks of that lead, potentially for good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 16:07
|
|
Gyrotica posted:Sounds like there's a story I missed. Something going on beyond, "This is a little harder than we thought, guys, so there will be a substantial delay" ? Yeah, that's pretty much what's going on. Intel gambled that they could get the tighter pitches/lines/fins without EUV by layering multiple exposures, but it turned out to be a bad bet, since the extra layers added a huge amount of extra defect possibilities among other things. (At least, that's my best guess)
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 16:28
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:In intel's world, delayed by a year and a half with no specific end in sight is pretty loving bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
DoctorOfLawls posted:I have the upgrade itch (still rocking a 2500k overclocked) but this is exactly makes me think whether to pass on Coffee Lake and wait for (allegedly?) H2 2018 for the upcoming Z390 + 8C/16T - http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/mystery-solved-z390-chipset-will-support-intel-8-core-processors.html - what are you guys on similar old builds and planning to upgrade going to do and what do you suggest? Same boat here and I have been delaying a new build for quite some time now. Never had any issues with gaming performance, just recently got a bit into streaming and while it's still fine for low key games like HearthStone or the occasional Indie game, Overwatch for instance is not feasible. But since I'm not doing it professionally (neither OW nor streaming), I did not feel compelled to really take the plunge. I had been eyeing the 7700K at some point - several points, actually -, but the thermal issues and the announcement of the 8xxx line made me hesitant once again. Now I've got my mind firmly set on the 8700k and the Z390 chipset in early/mid 2018. I will either use the 2500k as a dedicated streaming box or give it to my dad. Fingers crossed the Sandy Bridge and the Z77 board don't croak until then. There will always be a better thing around the corner. I hope Ice Lake gets delayed or will sound underwhelming from preliminary reports so I can follow through this time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 17:44
|
|
|
DoctorOfLawls posted:I have the upgrade itch (still rocking a 2500k overclocked) but this is exactly makes me think whether to pass on Coffee Lake and wait for (allegedly?) H2 2018 for the upcoming Z390 + 8C/16T - http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/mystery-solved-z390-chipset-will-support-intel-8-core-processors.html - what are you guys on similar old builds and planning to upgrade going to do and what do you suggest? I'm replacing the hubby's potatoshop / League rig (another sandy bridge system) this generation. NVMe and USB C form factors are just to nice to keep waiting on. There will never be another 2500k, and I've accepted that. going with RYYYYZZZZEEEEEENNNNN! It's just so cheap for the power available if you're not a bleeding monofilament edge gamer
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 18:27
|
|
|
Potato Salad posted:I'm replacing the hubby's potatoshop / League rig (another sandy bridge system) this generation. NVMe and USB C form factors are just to nice to keep waiting on. There will never be another 2500k, and I've accepted that. This is how I am leaning too, tbh. Just need to decide if I want to go full crazy with THREADRIPPERRRRR (for nvme raid)
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 18:29
|
|
|
Software raid only slows down io fulfilment on nvme  Only real way to increase bandwidth without also increasing protocol fulfilment time right now is to start making 8 lane cards with more packages behind faster controllers or wait for dimm 3d-xpoint 
Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 18:46
|
|
|
Potato Salad posted:Software raid only slows down io fulfilment on nvme But all the laaaaanezzzzz!! I wasn't really going to RAID them  but 64 lanes is pretty neat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 18:52
|
|
|
Cygni posted:Yeah, exactly. Like imagine if Intel's original plans had gone off without a hitch, Zen wouldn't have launched against 14nm Kaby Lake, it would have launched against an established 10nm Cannon Lake... with 30% better power performance, better IPC, higher clocks, and cheaper manufacturing costs. I imagine those Ryzen reviews would have looked a lot more like the Vega reviews, and probably ended with the same sentence they ended with in the Bulldozer days: "While a good improvement, its still not enough to catch Intel's substantial lead." Instead, Intel will likely cede double digit points in marketshare and billions of dollars throughout its lineup to AMD. Early reviews of Coffee Lake suggest it's not going to take more than 6 cores and 12 threads on 14nm to top today's Ryzen 7s so I don't think Intel has a lot to worry about yet Edit because the above is a bit flip: Ryzen 7s and Ryzen 5s were obviously a huge shift in the productivity/workstation market and Intel deservedly got its lunch eaten on price-to-performance in those segments. That said, the company has responded just fine (if you're a consumer) with what may be the best entry-level workstation/prosumer chip on the market (i7-7820X) and it can still deliver clearly superior core-for-core performance when it wants to (i7-7820X and i9-7960X vs 1800X/TR 1950X). Coffee Lake looks like it could deliver the chip everyone wants in i7 form: the latency and single-threaded performance characteristics of Intel's client cores with the multi-core performance of HEDT. From a client perspective, AMD can't cover both of those bases in one product because it's reliant on a server-class core to handle its entire product stack, not to mention that core can't clock nearly as high as Intel's yet. In fact, that's a lesser form of the Vega problem: you have to pin your hopes on one do-it-all chip and the more agile competition can just fire back with more tailored solutions that are better suited to the target markets you're only mostly addressing. From a server perspective, LOL Intel is boned. https://www.servethehome.com/amd-epyc-7401p-linux-benchmarks-and-review-something-special/ TheJeffers fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:24
|
|
|
sweclockers reporting that Coffee Lake is essentially a paper launch"redditor's translation posted:The release was initially meant to happen early 2018, but was hurried on by one quarter as a result of AMD's release of the CPU family Ryzen. Sources are now telling SweClockers that the changed plans have consequences on availability, and that Coffee Lake looks to be a scarcity for the rest of the year. https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/73zrcf/intel_coffee_lake_a_scarcity_for_the_rest_of_the/
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
Translation: when you're able to pre-order, *do so* as initial supply will be terrible.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:22
|
|
|
Some redditers at microcenter said they already had them i think.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:44
|
|
|
Embargo is dropping, all of the boards are showing up on the partners pages: http://wccftech.com/intel-z370-motherboard-roundup-asus-msi-asrock-aorus-gigabyte/ I'm lookin at the Strix Z370-H or Z370-F I think.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
mcbexx posted:while it's still fine for low key games like HearthStone or the occasional Indie game, Overwatch for instance is not feasible. I have a 3770K at stock, and a friend has a 2500, and we both play Overwatch fine. He also plays FF14, and we both had a fine time playing the Destiny 2 beta. I don't think your CPU is the problem here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
Tigerdirect has z370 asus boards in stock for immediate shipping http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?cat=13&catDesc=Motherboards&keywords=z370&mnf=&lowprice=0&highprice=0 So does newegg via buyvpc edit: and amazon https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_...&qid=1507060247 Don Lapre fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Oct 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:02
|
|
|
This might be a really stupid question but: I have an i5 3550, assuming I'm not looking at an i5 8600 (or whatever), how much of a performance improvement would I see from an i5 7600? This is mostly gaming oriented, but no fancy VR/120Hz/120FPS stuff. In terms of raw Ghz, the numbers look pretty close, so where's the improvement? EDIT: I'm pretty sure the answer is "Wait for an i5 8600, its got 2 more cores!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
I was going to link an Anandtech comparison but even the 3570k and 7600k have barely any benchmarks in common, the 3550 and 7600 have literally nothing. Based on experience in upgrading CPUs though I'd say it'd probably be about 20% faster in CPU limited situations. We're so close to Coffeelake though, yeah waiting is a good plan. Even if you step down to the 8350k because you don't need more cores it'll save you at least 50 dollars over a 7600.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
These delays are going to blooooow. Might just try to score a cheap 7700K instead of an 8700K to replace my i7-3820 (which performs similar to -- sigh -- a locked 2600).
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
craig588 posted:I was going to link an Anandtech comparison but even the 3570k and 7600k have barely any benchmarks in common, the 3550 and 7600 have literally nothing. Based on experience in upgrading CPUs though I'd say it'd probably be about 20% faster in CPU limited situations. We're so close to Coffeelake though, yeah waiting is a good plan. Even if you step down to the 8350k because you don't need more cores it'll save you at least 50 dollars over a 7600. Thanks, that's kind of what I figured. I hadn't really followed the CPU world since I built this machine in 2012, and I was kind of surprised to find that the i5's haven't really evolved all that much.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 23:00
|
|
|
Is Z370 even compatible with Kaby Lake? If those rumors are true (and I'm inclined to believe they are) then Coffee Lake is going to be a 6-9 month CPU until either the 8C version (possibly Ice Lake) lands.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
eames posted:Is Z370 even compatible with Kaby Lake? No. 3xx is coffee lake and newer only.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
eames posted:Is Z370 even compatible with Kaby Lake? No. quote:If those rumors are true (and I'm inclined to believe they are) then Coffee Lake is going to be a 6-9 month CPU until either the 8C version (possibly Ice Lake) lands. I don't expect Ice Lake that soon, personally. I also don't expect a radical performance increase. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 23:05
|
|
|
eames posted:Is Z370 even compatible with Kaby Lake? Even when the 8C/16T CPU comes out, 6C/12T will still be perfectly viable for many years. We're going to *have* to start seeing more things take advantage of 4+ cores and hyperthreading simply because by all indications, a 'demon' lives at 7-10nm, and the only trick CPU makers have up their sleeve at the moment is "moar corrz adn thredz" until they figure out a shortcut around or solution to their physics problems.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
Have they tried painting the processors red?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 23:51
|
|
|
canyoneer posted:Have they tried painting the processors red? Are you mad? The heat generation wouldn't be worth the speed increase.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2017 00:06
|
|
|
canyoneer posted:Have they tried painting the processors red? Be right back, getting a utility patent on red thermal paste ASAP. Gonna call it "Redwons Gofaster Premium Thermal Interface Material."
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
BIG HEADLINE posted:Be right back, getting a utility patent on red thermal paste ASAP. Gonna call it "Redwons Gofaster Premium Thermal Interface Material." MSI Gaming X Thermal Paste - apply MSI dragon logo using conveniently provided stencil with our patented Gaming X Thermal Paste lab tested showing that it definitely does conduct heat and that's about it but dang it's red'n'poo poo and goes with our pretty nice looking CPU cooler.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 17:38 |
|
|
Cool, I went to microcenter the other day and they said they'd have coffee lake available today. So, I came back today and nope. I kind of figured but it's very annoying. The salesman also seemed to say you need ddr4-2600 for coffee lake, which seems like bullshit? My problem is that I have a whole bundle of brand new PC parts sitting on my floor except for the mobo and processor, and I'm contemplating giving in and getting a 7700K. The extra cores would actually be somewhat meaningful for me but if it's going to be months until we can reliably get coffee lake...
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2017 01:36
|
|
