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Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

226 posted:

"Oh, your framerate is bad... it's uh, a problem with AWS.
lol they're doing it again already and it's not even released yet

Warhawk109 posted:

Well, the reasoning behind that was that the empire went with power in numbers, and rebels needed fighters with more durability, since they were fewer in number. Doesn't really lend itself to a balanced 12v12 fight. And going by the movies, shields really didn't offer much, if any protection, maybe 1-2 hits/glancing blows.
Maybe all the pilots in the movies are super ace wannabes and dump all shield power into engines to go fast faster. It's what I did in the games on the a-wing, makes it more survivable than any shield could. :v:

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reverend crabhands
Feb 3, 2016

Lladre posted:

I wonder who at CiG mistakenly backed that alpaca guy.
And no I don't think it was any of the upper management types.

With the Alpaca mystery, maybe all will be revealed in a future CIG video where someone has an overpriced itchy grey top on in the background. (Jan 2018)

But with the Kickstarter backing, to actually back you would have to put payment details in wouldn't you, and it would have probably already been linked to the CIG account due to SC campaign.

So this would indeed have come out of backer moneys? Disgusting CIG

reverend crabhands fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Oct 5, 2017

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Truga posted:

DOS1 was good but often clunky from what I've been told, and DOS2 really fixed most problems. I've backed both on KS, but I haven't taken the time to play yet :negative:

GW2, Stellaris and FF14 sucking all my gaming time.

I'm playing through the enhanced version of D:OS1 at the moment and it's quite a bit smoother than the original release.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
poo poo yeah, I keep forgetting about the enhanced version. Either way, I'd say both are a must play, from what little I've tried them out and then others have told me.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/Nighthawk_Zale/status/915692435828744192

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Star Citizen - a loosely knit narrative

Rugganovich
Apr 29, 2017
As Star Citizen is all about fiction, humble bundle have a collection of assorted Science Fiction ebooks. https://www.humblebundle.com/books/adventures-in-science-fiction-books , enjoy.

Solarin
Nov 15, 2007

The Titanic posted:

I feel like they started off with good intentions. Even being honest and promising to show the financials so people can see where the money went into development in case they failed to deliver on day X.

But then something happened. The kickstarter ended, but the money kept flowing in. It's like a money well just got discovered, and it's spewing money everywhere!

It was a slow transition, but I feel like the company shifted from "We can make money by making and completing this game!" to "We can make money by making this game!"

The whole "making a game" thing is still there, but the whole "finishing and completing" it aspect is basically gone. Even with CRs brute incompetence, any developer actually wanting to finish a game would have had more progress than they have had. They are effectively throwing super pretty art into tutorial-grade Crysis maps, none of which have any semblance of a gameplay loop outside of their very specific scripted segment.

The "pretend progress" is all of your hours and hours of white noise. "Surely they are working hard, look at all this stuff!!!"

But then you see nothing about gameplay. Lots of animation stuff, motion capture, the same cafeteria scene they've been working on for probably over a year now... no logic except "we think" and "we're looking into" and the like. Nothing is nailed down anywhere. Even the so called mmo part is a mere arena shooter. There is no actual game.

So barring the shell companies and the shifty lies and the never-ending sales of products nowhere close to getting anywhere... i guess the question about "Is it a scam?" could only be answered if we knew their mindset and thinking; which we may never.

Outside of that, is the core change from:

Finishing and selling a game to profit.

To:

Building a game with no end of development to profit.

A scam?

How many new dlc items that are not implemented and may never be does it take to constitute a scam? Is the promise of "we're working on it, really!" good enough to evade them from scam territory? Should they have "or your money back if not integrated by xx/xx/xxxx?" to prevent a scam; or is the mere consideration that they will maybe someday include this is the future good enough?

My opinion is that once the scope of the project shifted from "finish to get $$$" to "make to get $$$", it became a scam, only because they do not have any sort of plan for how they will survive as a company after it's done.

Because CIGs purported end goal (finish the product) could only lead to the destruction of the company, it's a scam, in my opinion. This open ended "fund my life" type stuff is just another form of a scam.

A good post

I think anybody watching this who wasn't high on dream powder realized the perma crowdfunding bullshit is a broken exploitative model. At least it's turned out to be funny as hell in this case

Xaerael
Aug 25, 2010

Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

I think the most amazing thing about the alpaca incident is that:

1) Someone at CIG is active on kickstarter with the CIG account, meaning people there read the SC page.

2) The CIG account isn't banned for non delivery.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Abuminable posted:

I think he wants Mirificus to stop posting things for us to laugh at. Or maybe he's Autorottentater and doesn't want anyone to see that he got owned.

Mirificus just spams the thread with huge screenshots of Reddit conversations featuring absolute no-marks, regardless of what the thread is currently talking about, then does the same whenever anyone in that Reddit thread actually replies.

He must have thousands of posts like this, it's bizarre and obsessive and unhealthy. He doesn't actually engage in conversation in this thread, he just furiously archives Reddit and occasionally other sites. It's as weird as /r/ds itself.

Risc1911
Mar 1, 2016

The Titanic posted:

I feel like they started off with good intentions. Even being honest and promising to show the financials so people can see where the money went into development in case they failed to deliver on day X.

But then something happened. The kickstarter ended, but the money kept flowing in. It's like a money well just got discovered, and it's spewing money everywhere!

It was a slow transition, but I feel like the company shifted from "We can make money by making and completing this game!" to "We can make money by making this game!"

The whole "making a game" thing is still there, but the whole "finishing and completing" it aspect is basically gone. Even with CRs brute incompetence, any developer actually wanting to finish a game would have had more progress than they have had. They are effectively throwing super pretty art into tutorial-grade Crysis maps, none of which have any semblance of a gameplay loop outside of their very specific scripted segment.

The "pretend progress" is all of your hours and hours of white noise. "Surely they are working hard, look at all this stuff!!!"

But then you see nothing about gameplay. Lots of animation stuff, motion capture, the same cafeteria scene they've been working on for probably over a year now... no logic except "we think" and "we're looking into" and the like. Nothing is nailed down anywhere. Even the so called mmo part is a mere arena shooter. There is no actual game.

So barring the shell companies and the shifty lies and the never-ending sales of products nowhere close to getting anywhere... i guess the question about "Is it a scam?" could only be answered if we knew their mindset and thinking; which we may never.

Outside of that, is the core change from:

Finishing and selling a game to profit.

To:

Building a game with no end of development to profit.

A scam?

How many new dlc items that are not implemented and may never be does it take to constitute a scam? Is the promise of "we're working on it, really!" good enough to evade them from scam territory? Should they have "or your money back if not integrated by xx/xx/xxxx?" to prevent a scam; or is the mere consideration that they will maybe someday include this is the future good enough?

My opinion is that once the scope of the project shifted from "finish to get $$$" to "make to get $$$", it became a scam, only because they do not have any sort of plan for how they will survive as a company after it's done.

Because CIGs purported end goal (finish the product) could only lead to the destruction of the company, it's a scam, in my opinion. This open ended "fund my life" type stuff is just another form of a scam.

This is a good description how Early Access and Crowd Funding has been working for the last 10+ years. Rarely do you see a game actually getting to a polished and finished state. It's about making money while developing and when it gets stale and the money stops flowing in the project is released as finished and developers move on. This is the world we live in now. From Pre-Order to Early Access to Pay for Alpha and pray it will eventually be finished.

Good post though!

Nanako the Narc
Sep 6, 2011

TheAgent posted:

he's just kinda dumb

talk to him without ~ spacedreams~ going on and the man is completely stupid

how people thought he is or was some kind of coding genius is beyond me

Oh I'm not saying he's not an idiot, I'm saying he's a spineless idiot :cheeky:.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Haven't they been working on that cafeteria scene for at least 3 years now? It's supposed to be the main inter-mission cutscene location or some poo poo.

Solarin
Nov 15, 2007

thatguy posted:

Star Citizen: Softer than cashmere, as warm as polar bear fur, and less than 10 oz.

ahmini
May 5, 2009

Risc1911 posted:

This is a good description how Early Access and Crowd Funding has been working for the last 10+ years. Rarely do you see a game actually getting to a polished and finished state. It's about making money while developing and when it gets stale and the money stops flowing in the project is released as finished and developers move on. This is the world we live in now. From Pre-Order to Early Access to Pay for Alpha and pray it will eventually be finished.

Good post though!

Personally, I think the CRobbler genuinely believed (and continues to believe) that all his promises were easy. The man is totally detached from the reality of developing a AAA game and cannot understand why his developers are having extreme difficulties delivering something that isn't a janky horrible mess. The now-infamous livestream of CRobbler attempting to play Star Citizen revealed a person largely disinterested in any actual game play details. He probably believes that all you have to do to turn out the BDSSE is be a "visionary" and imagine a "world", then create fancy 3D models to match that. Animations are similarly trivial to the CRobbler; supposedly being a mere automated process of funneling mocapped data from all his movie making adventures into actual in-game animations. AI? "Not important, it was easy in Wing Commander." Network code? "What's taking so long? Surely the 'cloud' solves all those problems? Why are you bringing me problems and not solutions?" And so on...

So, on that level it's difficult to call SC a fraud as self-delusion is not a criminal act. However, where the fraud is being perpetuated now is that the game is obviously not "fully funded" as was claimed in the past and CRobbler has failed to update backers to enlighten them to the new reality (that ongoing development is increasingly dependent on a high level of continued ship purchases). This is deception by omission and one the backers could conceivably call him out on if they ever actually loving organised themselves and demanded to see the books rather than acting like weird cult disciples.

Nanako the Narc
Sep 6, 2011

eXXon posted:

Haven't they been working on that cafeteria scene for at least 3 years now? It's supposed to be the main inter-mission cutscene location or some poo poo.

Wasn't the cafe/cantina the main place you interacted with your crew in the WC games? It would not surprise me if Crobberts had told his staff that it's the most important part of Squadron 42 and that it was imperative for them to get it perfect.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





nawledgelambo posted:

thank u poster

Finally someone else realizes the absurdity of saying Lando is some sort of double agent who is going to whistleblow the poo poo out out of all this

lol the dude is Ben 2.0 if Ben hadn't metamorphasized into a house

to clarify, I don't think Lando is actually some kind of true-hearted whistleblower. He just looks insanely close to snapping every time he's on camera. I think that dude's under a lot of stress. But to be fair, Lando 'snapping' might not equal juicy secrets so much as it equals a 30 minute video of him eating donuts in his underwear or whatever.

Risc1911
Mar 1, 2016

ahmini posted:

Personally, I think the CRobbler genuinely believed (and continues to believe) that all his promises were easy. The man is totally detached from the reality of developing a AAA game and cannot understand why his developers are having extreme difficulties delivering something that isn't a janky horrible mess. The now-infamous livestream of CRobbler attempting to play Star Citizen revealed a person largely disinterested in any actual game play details. He probably believes that all you have to do to turn out the BDSSE is be a "visionary" and imagine a "world", then create fancy 3D models to match that. Animations are similarly trivial to the CRobbler; supposedly being a mere automated process of funneling mocapped data from all his movie making adventures into actual in-game animations. AI? "Not important, it was easy in Wing Commander." Network code? "What's taking so long? Surely the 'cloud' solves all those problems? Why are you bringing me problems and not solutions?" And so on...

So, on that level it's difficult to call SC a fraud as self-delusion is not a criminal act. However, where the fraud is being perpetuated now is that the game is obviously not "fully funded" as was claimed in the past and CRobbler has failed to update backers to enlighten them to the new reality (that ongoing development is increasingly dependent on a high level of continued ship purchases). This is deception by omission and one the backers could conceivably call him out on if they ever actually loving organised themselves and demanded to see the books rather than acting like weird cult disciples.

It's hard to say if this was done with malicious intend right from the start. I have the feeling it was. If you take a look at Chris Robert's past, his friends and their continued quest to acquire money through borderline illegal methods using shell companies, grants and tax incentives, one could actually come to the conclusion that this was not planned but at least intended as a standard Early Access fraud. By standard i mean: "Ride the wave of nostalgia and fame of a video game dinosaur to extract a million or two from gullible fans" (see Lord British, Molyneux etc.) With no intention of ever producing a really quality product.

On the other hand you could be right too and CR is really a sad delusional man-child that has never really programmed and never caught up with the times on how complex game development is these days.

I hope that when this comes to a conclusion, there will be an investigation what exactly went wrong. I am a firm believer that no matter the intention, Chris Roberts dug his own grave as this will never live up to the standards and will go down in history as the biggest crowd funding failure. I fully expect documentaries resulting from this.

Risc1911
Mar 1, 2016

Beet Wagon posted:

to clarify, I don't think Lando is actually some kind of true-hearted whistleblower. He just looks insanely close to snapping every time he's on camera. I think that dude's under a lot of stress. But to be fair, Lando 'snapping' might not equal juicy secrets so much as it equals a 30 minute video of him eating donuts in his underwear or whatever.

Lando is a disturbed man-child that regrets his whole life. He is really close to snapping and losing it. If you remember the famous video with him, some other guy and the poor woman (Sophiegurl) he later stalked, you can see what a sad human being he really is, rambling 30+ minutes about all the video game nostalgia and merchandise he owns and collects sitting in the middle of it all surrounded by all those useless trinkets.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015






I'm guessing that bit at the end there is the component access? gently caress, I don't understand why CIG needs to make all their poo poo so needlessly complex when it ultimately ends up boiling down to "Hold E to grab the thing."

Like... I hope their item system is really good at differentiating exactly what you're looking at when you hit the grab button because apparenly everything that makes that stupid bike go fits within a backpack-sized box next to your commando's dick.


Risc1911 posted:

Lando is a disturbed man-child that regrets his whole life. He is really close to snapping and losing it. If you remember the famous video with him, some other guy and the poor woman (Sophiegurl) he later stalked, you can see what a sad human being he really is, rambling 30+ minutes about all the video game nostalgia and merchandise he owns and collects sitting in the middle of it all surrounded by all those useless trinkets.

Oh gently caress I forgot about the Sophiegurl thing. That's it, I'm changing the canon. Lando is simply future WTFO, come back to try and achieve Star Citizen-related success through a different avenue.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Beet Wagon posted:



Oh gently caress I forgot about the Sophiegurl thing.

What the heck was that about?

Risc1911
Mar 1, 2016

Colostomy Bag posted:

What the heck was that about?

Lando trying to get his dick wet by impressing a streamer girl (Sophiegurl) with his videogame merchandise and his undivided attention (stalking).

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Risc1911 posted:

Lando trying to get his dick wet by impressing a streamer girl (Sophiegurl) with his videogame merchandise and his undivided attention (stalking).

He also like hinted that he could get her a job with CIG and poo poo, right?

Natron
Aug 5, 2004

Toops posted:

Am I the ELE?

Risc1911
Mar 1, 2016

Beet Wagon posted:

He also like hinted that he could get her a job with CIG and poo poo, right?

I think it was more of an implied thing, kinda like: "If you touch my wrinkly old dangly bits i can help you with your streaming and maybe more." I am foggy on what exactly went down and what kind of real evidence there was but i would not be surprised if he did dangle his position and a job in front of her as bait.

Risc1911 fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Oct 5, 2017

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Risc1911 posted:

Lando trying to get his dick wet by impressing a streamer girl (Sophiegurl) with his videogame merchandise and his undivided attention (stalking).

Thanks. What venue did this take place on?

stingtwo
Nov 16, 2012

ahmini posted:

Personally, I think the CRobbler genuinely believed (and continues to believe) that all his promises were easy. The man is totally detached from the reality of developing a AAA game and cannot understand why his developers are having extreme difficulties delivering something that isn't a janky horrible mess. The now-infamous livestream of CRobbler attempting to play Star Citizen revealed a person largely disinterested in any actual game play details. He probably believes that all you have to do to turn out the BDSSE is be a "visionary" and imagine a "world", then create fancy 3D models to match that. Animations are similarly trivial to the CRobbler; supposedly being a mere automated process of funneling mocapped data from all his movie making adventures into actual in-game animations. AI? "Not important, it was easy in Wing Commander." Network code? "What's taking so long? Surely the 'cloud' solves all those problems? Why are you bringing me problems and not solutions?" And so on...

So, on that level it's difficult to call SC a fraud as self-delusion is not a criminal act. However, where the fraud is being perpetuated now is that the game is obviously not "fully funded" as was claimed in the past and CRobbler has failed to update backers to enlighten them to the new reality (that ongoing development is increasingly dependent on a high level of continued ship purchases). This is deception by omission and one the backers could conceivably call him out on if they ever actually loving organised themselves and demanded to see the books rather than acting like weird cult disciples.

There is a difference between what you're marketing and straight up fraud. Chris Roberts and team have long since crossed that line. Even the worst games from Kickstarter/early access that are not steam shovelware at least, have what they pitch. I don't consider games like Daikatana a scam, I consider it terrible and got tricked into buying it because it was made by John Romero. If Star Citizen was already released, had all it's base promises and was just another terrible kickstarter game, this thread wouldn't even be 5 pages long.

It's this constant stream of lies and deceit from the guy at the top, to the community managers, to the lowly code monkeys getting in front of a camera and saying such dribble crap that turns this into a scam. Nothing they say exists outside of dreamland.

The most ardent defenders of this project will not ever grow a spine and question the status of this project, they will defend this project till the day it's being auctioned off in the Coutts and co parking lot. CIG has found the dumbest of dumb gamers(and in some cases, non gamers) milking their bank accounts dry on a nostalgic franchise and nergasims of Mark Hamill being in the game.
The rumblings that occured from the disaster that is Gamescom has been largely forgotten, Citizencon will light a fire under their rear end for maybe a month AT best, then the cycle will continue.

Buy an Idris.

Sunswipe
Feb 5, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
Think I've found Derek's latest project:
https://twitter.com/Ninety7life/status/910526455783845888

Risc1911
Mar 1, 2016

Colostomy Bag posted:

Thanks. What venue did this take place on?

He had her skype number from the video they did together so that was the main venue as far as i remember.

Rugganovich
Apr 29, 2017

Risc1911 posted:

I hope that when this comes to a conclusion, there will be an investigation what exactly went wrong. I am a firm believer that no matter the intention, Chris Roberts dug his own grave as this will never live up to the standards and will go down in history as the biggest crowd funding failure. I fully expect documentaries resulting from this.

I think this just highlights a growing movement within the consumer base as a whole. For a very long time, software and inherently it's development, has been given a free pass when it comes to the 'final' product. Consumer protection through legislation is finally catching up to include digital goods and where once a software development company could shrug off complaints about it's buggy half arsed product, times are a changing. More and more software companies are going to be forced to refund consumers going forward as the product supplied isn't what was advertised and funnily enough kickstarter et al seem to be part of the catalyst of change, purely for the fact that govt. authorities are stating that under these schemes consumers have the same rights as other purchase methods.

It's been far to long coming and the thin edge of the wedge was Steam and other software distribution companies finally offering refunds.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Truga posted:

That's actually not clever and in fact incredibly lovely. A random memory bug happens, but the game crashes with "CD read error" so you think your CD is scratched instead, rather than game just being a buggy piece of poo poo.

Haha... I actually remember getting that error several times back in the day. I figured it was the CD or my CD-Rom was going out. I took out the CD and polished it bunches. Of course the game worked again so I figured that was the problem despite the CD being clean.

That's a pretty terrible error and very misleading to knowingly blame a users hardware because you had a software error you couldn't figure out how to fix. It worked on me, but I thought my Pentium was on the fritz rather than the game. :(

Slow_Moe
Feb 18, 2013

So... since we've established crobbers is a spineless idiot who doesn't know about game development, do y'all think he's just being set up as the fall guy?

Imagine this: nerds give money by the truckload and CIG goes over to a "promise based" delivery model, crobbers goes along with it because of course he wants more money to realise his dreams.

Ortwin, or someone else, quietly embezzles funds out while the master director is distracted shooting mocap. Say something like a mill or 2 a year, for 5 years, would still be a nice retirement package, especially if no one can trace the money. Which would explain the shell companies.

At some point CIG goes titsup, crobbers gets the blame as the guy that squandered 160M on mocap and alpaca hoodies. Nobody looks into it, because of the hollywood accounting and crobbers oscarwinning role as the incompetent manager.

Ortwin retires to a fancy mansion somewhere in southern europe and lives happily ever after.


This has been today's scheduled conspiracy theory :tinfoil:

Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat
The only reason Chris Roberts is making any sort of effort to push out a MVP(lol at their acronyms) is to keep this cash cow going.

He didn't deduce this himself I am sure Ortwin and Sandi sat him down and used simple words to explain to him that the gravy train was running low.

He's an idiot, but he's a mean idiot.

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014

thread is broke

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

The Titanic posted:

Haha... I actually remember getting that error several times back in the day. I figured it was the CD or my CD-Rom was going out. I took out the CD and polished it bunches. Of course the game worked again so I figured that was the problem despite the CD being clean.

That's a pretty terrible error and very misleading to knowingly blame a users hardware because you had a software error you couldn't figure out how to fix. It worked on me, but I thought my Pentium was on the fritz rather than the game. :(

I wonder if anyone ended up buying a new copy of the game and/or a new CD drive because they kept getting that error and thought it was real.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
This may kill the forums

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer
Wing Commander 3 - a game so badly written that now I can't even find my post or the entirety of thread page 2376

Sir Simon Milligan
Mar 27, 2003

Yes, I have walked along the path of evil many times, it's a twisting curving path, that actually leads to a charming block garden, but beyond that evil!

I only skim these days, but it seems like CIG backed some other kickstarter. How is that remotely cool, like I give company A my money and then they donate it to company B. It's not like they've ever turned a profit, so they're just giving away other people's money. I assume they're funneling money at this point and the sweaters are Sandis company or some poo poo.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
So I am a man

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Lladre
Jun 28, 2011


Soiled Meat
This is why we can't have nice things.

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