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RuanGacho posted:Jokes on us, the illuminati are already in control theyre just waiting for the right moment to assert direct control of human history. It sounds even dumber when you spell it out, doesnt it?
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Oct 5, 2017 15:57
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Heh I have a idea, its easy to talk about how inanimate objects are your right to keep but what about those 50+ people who died and the 500+ injured? Probably don't want to talk about their rights huh, that'd be a shame if someone murdered them.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:01
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Only people alive have the propensity for "rights"
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Oct 5, 2017 16:02
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RuanGacho posted:Heh I have a idea, its easy to talk about how inanimate objects are your right to keep but what about those 50+ people who died and the 500+ injured? Probably don't want to talk about their rights huh, that'd be a shame if someone murdered them. 
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Oct 5, 2017 16:04
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Fixing gun culture would go a long way towards fixing the accidental death issue. I'm not quite sure how to go about that (mandated training would help but it's just as easy to completely ignore the training afterwards) but it would drastically cut down on negligent and stupid injuries and deaths. See: Potato Salad's earlier example of the dude waving a .45 all over the place while at a shooting class. Then you have the issue of suicides. IMO a two to three day waiting period would probably help a lot. When I was suicidal I was only actively suicidal in short bursts and from what I've seen that's pretty common. Even if they still attempt suicide in another manner it's a lot harder to irreversibly injure or kill yourself with pills or whatever than with a gun. Not impossible, but say an overdose case is a lot easier to keep alive and help recover than someone who has shot themself in the head. After that, you have to deal with intentional violence. This is where things can get hard, not only because it's relatively easy to make a gun disappear but also because there's two different varieties with two different causes and two different solutions. There's violence committed by people with legally obtained guns and violence committed by people with illegally obtained guns. People who murder others with legally obtained guns (outside of like the police or military, I'm just talking about private citizens) tend to be one and done killings, but they're the killings that stick in people's minds because they're generally so much more horrifying. The mother who went to a gun range with her kid, shot her kid, and then intended to shoot herself but couldn't go through with it. The VA tech shooting. Pulse, San Bernardino, this recent Vegas shooting. All are way more horrifying to the public than say a mafia war, which is more likely to have illegal and illegally obtained weapons. I don't really know how to stop it outside of a ban on semiauto centerfire rifles with detachable box magazines, although some gun control like checks into why the person wants the gun or whatever could help. Illegally obtained weapons should be fairly easy to slow or stop by mandating safes and background checks and trying to clamp down on smuggling and whatnot All that said, the issues also tie in with things like the fact that in the US the police don't actually have a responsibility to protect individual members of the public and tbh after all this poo poo that's been exposed in the past few years I wouldn't trust them to do it even if they did. Nothing like calling the cops because you thing you're getting robbed and ending up shot by the very people you called for help. All in all I have extremely complicated feelings on the subject, especially with how outright facist a lot of the country (& especially the government) has gotten lately. I'm not sure I trust the US government to implement things in a way that would actually help and wouldn't just be massively abused by police and right wing nutjobs anyway. But on the other hand if you could guarantee me that banning all guns would stop mass shootings in their tracks I would personally take a blowtorch to my family's weapons.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:09
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Christ that was a long post. Took a half hour to write.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:09
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Crowsbeak posted:THat's our right to decide. Not yours. Crowsbeak posted:Hey plenty of people in this thread have been fantasizing it. I don't think you really believe that hunting is secretly illegal in Europe or that Obama's master plan was to ban hunting and fishing and mudding. Like death panels and Obamacare, you can't debate the policy so you're making poo poo up so you don't have to debate. Crowsbeak posted:Hey if you can pass a background check? Sure. I won't let you suffer just because some sickos who should have been sent to camps in Alaska use fertilizer for violence. Really. Really. You think we should have more Oklahoma City bombings so people can have fun playtimes blowing up fertilizer in the backyard if they want. Really. Bull loving poo poo.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:11
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Moatman posted:Christ that was a long post. Took a half hour to write.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:15
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Crowsbeak posted:As long is this does not lead to Australia I can agree with this. OK, thanks for answering. I genuinely want to reach some sort of understanding, I don't think you're a monster and I believe you're arguing in good faith. Followup points, if you can agree: - A hobby or interest in using a tool as recreation does not, in and of itself, mean we should allow them to be purchased and owned by the general public. - The reason for this is, some tools are too powerful, their reach too far, and are overkill for self defense. - Just because something was traditionally allowed, does not in and of itself mean it should be allowed now. Society should react to new information and new circumstances, because harm reduction is a basic obligation and duty of civil society. - You should be allowed to defend yourself, but not with the aforementioned "overkill" tools. Still with me?
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Oct 5, 2017 16:18
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Rent-A-Cop posted:That's akin to a mental disorder. I was really bored waiting for my class to start and have had all those feelings stewing around in my head since the shooting happened.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:19
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This is bullshit by the way. At best it describes one comparatively small subset of modern propaganda.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:20
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The Kingfish posted:This is bullshit by the way. At best it describes one comparatively small subset of modern propaganda. Only one small subset of modern propaganda wants to misinform or push an agenda?
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Oct 5, 2017 16:21
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Only a small subset of propaganda is designed "exhaust critical thinking" or "annihilate truth" in any meaningful sense.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:24
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Moatman posted:I was really bored waiting for my class to start and have had all those feelings stewing around in my head since the shooting happened.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:25
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The Kingfish posted:Only a small subset of propaganda is designed "exhaust critical thinking" or "annihilate truth" in any meaningful sense. On the other hand the GOP 
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Oct 5, 2017 16:26
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The Kingfish posted:Only a small subset of propaganda is designed "exhaust critical thinking" or "annihilate truth" in any meaningful sense. One could argue that modern propaganda exhausts critical thinking and annihilates truth in the process of misinforming people and pushing an agenda. To those behind abominations like Brexit and the election of Trump, truth and critical thinking are inconveniences at best, and the enemy at worst.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:27
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RuanGacho posted:Heh I have a idea, its easy to talk about how inanimate objects are your right to keep but what about those 50+ people who died and the 500+ injured? Probably don't want to talk about their rights huh, that'd be a shame if someone murdered them. This but Americans' right to drink alcohol weighed against 88,000 deaths per year.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:31
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Main Paineframe posted:Having neighborhood moms sit at street corners with "Moms on Patrol" shirts isn't going to end gun violence. Even if it keeps unruly teens from getting into gang fights out of boredom, it's not going to stop things like domestic abuse or spree killings. There is no one single solution for ending violence. America is awash in violence due to a variety of factors. Naturally building community ties with alienated youth isn't going to fix a culture of misogyny born out of patriarchal values. It has dramatically reduced violence among the victims of systemic racism and economic inequality, the people who bear the large share of violence in this country, accounting for exponentially more victims than spree killers. I would think the difference between local families collaboratively enforcing pro-social standards of behavior vs. having the violent enforcers of white supremacy show up to assault, imprison, and isolate troubled members of the community would be immediately obvious. But, I'm open to discussing it I guess? I can't find any article describing MASK as 'harrassing' the youth beyond the type of 'harrassment' you would expect from your own family.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:31
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Dead Reckoning posted:This but Americans' right to drink alcohol weighed against 88,000 deaths per year. You seem to forget that from the last time around that this doesn't land with me because I don't think humans should drive nor consume alcohol before operating machines. The only way we're going to teach you what you need to learn is if you have to paint the words "This is the price of freedom, at least it's not my blood" with mass shootings victims blood under their portraits while each of the families make sure you do it. You are done of being absolved of responsibility for this. You don't get to talk about guns without the price OTHER PEOPLE are paying anymore.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:38
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RuanGacho posted:You seem to forget that from the last time around that this doesn't land with me because I don't think humans should drive nor consume alcohol before operating machines. The obvious response to this is that humans should not use guns to shoot other humans, and we have laws with severe consequences stating that. But they do it anyway, just like people drive drunk and crash into people despite being told not to. I would say that yes, there is a strong argument that we should probably ban alcohol. We even tried to do it, but unfortunately the reaction was so severe and violent that we reluctantly concluded that we're better off with legal alcohol and all the consequences from allowing it. We can also try banning guns with some exceptions for hunting rifles. If the reaction to that is worse than not banning guns, then fine, we can un-ban them later.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:43
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Difference between owning a car and owning a gun is that you need to be tested, licensed and insured to own and operate a car. Same should be done for guns, which is what most people agree on when it comes to gun regulation.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:45
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Rigel posted:The obvious response to this is that humans should not use guns to shoot other humans, and we have laws with severe consequences stating that. But they do it anyway, just like people drive drunk and crash into people despite being told not to. This isn't about consumer goods, it's about the freedom to live without fear that Dead Decking and all who sympathize with him not having to take responsibility for their actions. Alcohol is not analogous, and even if it were I value strangers lives over your bad day escape. It's even funnier that a gun fucker would bring up booze whataboutism because Austalia has a culture that people drink sometimes at lunch and yet they're no worse than us. Once again an abdication of personal responsibility. If you want to solve the alcohol bullshit the legal limit is now 0. No need to ban all booze, just make people responsible for their actions.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:48
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Kokoro Wish posted:Difference between owning a car and owning a gun is that you need to be tested, licensed and insured to own and operate a car. Same should be done for guns, which is what most people agree on when it comes to gun regulation. Even an originalist or strict textualist has to admit the Constitution calls for something to be "well regulated"
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Oct 5, 2017 16:53
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Hey now, Australians are also on tons of meth. (though we call it 'ice'). And weed. We're all pretty hosed up on everything. I don't think we have the opiates problem, though I could be wrong.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:53
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Dead Reckoning posted:This but Americans' right to drink alcohol weighed against 88,000 deaths per year.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:54
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Inescapable Duck posted:Hey now, Australians are also on tons of meth. (though we call it 'ice'). And weed. We're all pretty hosed up on everything. I don't think we have the opiates problem, though I could be wrong. Nah, they love oxy and chasing the dragon down under. quote:Australians' addiction to prescription opioids soaring
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Oct 5, 2017 16:58
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Ravenfood posted:I'd happily listen to your thoughts on ways to decrease the number of drunk driving deaths, or any other alcohol-related deaths that are inflicted by the drinker on other people. If the vast majority of gun-related deaths were self-inflicted, we wouldn't be talking about this right now. A substantial majority of gun-related deaths are self-inflicted.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:59
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Kokoro Wish posted:Difference between owning a car and owning a gun is that you need to be tested, licensed and insured to own and operate a car. Same should be done for guns, which is what most people agree on when it comes to gun regulation. Stop using car analogies, they're awful. If you want to add license fees... well, the analogue there would be a carry permit. And they have similar fees to a driver's license. Insurance would be something I suppose, though difficult to pass. Maybe if you use an argument that any carry permit needs to be accompanied by insurance to be valid or something. If we're comparing testing... sorry, but that's got to be some sort of joke, right? I tested twice in my life: once when I first got my license and again when I had to get a California license because they wouldn't accept my testing for whatever reason. Both times it was incredibly softball questions and the driving test portion was a joke. You can buy a car now and drive it around on private property to your heart's content without ever renewing the registration, insuring the vehicle or maintaining a driver's license. Again, don't do car analogies. You're comparing a machine that can be deadly but is designed for transportation to something that is designed from conception to be a deadly weapon.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:03
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Answer this gun fuckers. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/las-vegas-shooting-victims-names-latest-list/ I'll post ever name, face and story when I'm not phone posting and no more "muh rights" until you acknowledge their lives are worth it.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:03
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What is who supposed to be answering.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:05
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I am terribly sorry that a maniac killed those people. It has no effect on my rights.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:06
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RuanGacho posted:Answer this gun fuckers. Oh hunny. We killed more people in a single day in Iraq. Why do you seem to care so much about 50 or so white people dying from gun violence when every single day across the world thousands die from it? This is who we are. We are no better. We can not be any better.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:07
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Yardbomb posted:What is who supposed to be answering. This is a disingenuous post.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:07
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Potato Salad posted:This is a disingenuous post. It really isn't, they've been getting nearly incoherent in some posts.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:08
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Oh hunny. We killed more people in a single day in Iraq. I'm glad that excuses violence, and I'm glad that the next time someone tries to harm you, you'll lie down, close your eyes, and think of all the murdered people in Iraq.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:09
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gently caress off
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Oct 5, 2017 17:09
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[quote="“The Kingfish”" post="“477080753”"] I am terribly sorry that a maniac killed those people. It has no effect on my rights. [quote="“The Kingfish”" post="“477080753”"] I am terribly sorry that a maniac killed those people. It has no effect on my rights. [/quote] The point is what a lot of people are preposing is not effecting your rights. You don't have the right to an assault rifle or handgun. 
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Oct 5, 2017 17:10
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RuanGacho posted:Answer this gun fuckers. Wasting your time, blood is the price for freedom to gun nuts. Dead children won't stop them and they don't argue in good faith. gently caress em, I say repeal the second amendment and burn it off the constitution
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Oct 5, 2017 17:10
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VitalSigns posted:
On the subject of your facts. Yeah not gonna win people over if they don't feel safe in their neighborhoods. On shitposting. So why then do you care what i say?
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Oct 5, 2017 17:11
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Potato Salad posted:I'm glad that excuses violence, and I'm glad that the next time someone tries to harm you, you'll lie down, close your eyes, and think of all the murdered people in Iraq. It doesn't excuse violence. I just don't know why in this day and age you're expecting something else. We humans are so interesting. Still trying to find hope where there is none.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:11
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