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I would think they kind of have to do that for the X. They could include a second disc with the retail release, which would increase the cost and confuse people with a bone. Or they could just have bonx owners download more things. And if you are buying an xbonx, are you seriously going to only play it offline? I'm sure it works just fine once you download the data, so who the hell has a 4K TV, a 4K console and no wifi?
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Oct 5, 2017 15:21
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TheScott2K posted:People should stop walking into GameStop lmao if you aren't buying all your videos from the couch covered in a thin layer of cheetos dust
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Oct 5, 2017 15:23
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DariusLikewise posted:lmao if you aren't buying all your videos from the couch covered in a thin layer of cheetos dust Or just, you know, literally anywhere but GameStop.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:25
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Cojawfee posted:I would think they kind of have to do that for the X. They could include a second disc with the retail release, which would increase the cost and confuse people with a bone. Or they could just have bonx owners download more things. And if you are buying an xbonx, are you seriously going to only play it offline? I'm sure it works just fine once you download the data, so who the hell has a 4K TV, a 4K console and no wifi? Number of American homes which can't even get 3mbps internet: 4.9 million Number of American homes which can't get 25mbps internet: 10.6 million Number of American homes which only have one broadband ISP (makes it very likely they have strict monthly download limits with no "unlimited" option): 40 million (not counting the 10.6 million mentioned before). If every game you buy is going to have a mandatory 60 gig download even with a retail disc (and this is already the case without 4K assets for Halo 5 and Forza 7 at least, possibly other games too) that's going to be a problem with ISP's still having pretty low monthly limits for a lot of people. This is a very weird gen even without the 4K mid-gen upgrades, since there are several million who are largely cut off from it due to factors out of their control that have nothing to do with things like the console's cost.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:28
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That's really a US problem not an Xbox problem, the US internet infrastructure and quite frankly scary obsession with hardcore capitalism means the average American is getting absolutely loving gouged on everything. If you want a change, pressure your politicians not your games developers
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Oct 5, 2017 15:44
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It's possible to approach it from both angles too; the US internet infrastructure needs a serious overhaul, and devs should probably think long and hard about how their assets are distributed (although it sounds like Microsoft has something brewing for this, cautiously optimistic it turns out to be effective)
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Oct 5, 2017 16:00
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Yeah - they probably have a deal with ISPs post-net neutrality to let their data go through at lower prices.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:20
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Xbox died in non english speaking countries so a us problem is an xbox problem
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Oct 5, 2017 16:30
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univbee posted:Number of American homes which can't even get 3mbps internet: 4.9 million It's ludicrous to say the 40 million households with only one cable ISP must necessarily have low bandwidth caps, too low to use a fancy xbonex they plan to buy. Especially when even people stuck with like 300 GB caps can still do quite a few full texture pack updates. Fact is 90%+ of the country has 25 megabit service, if they want internet at all (remember like 15% of the country just doesn't have home internet), and I hardly think not reaching the other less than 10% is make or break for a midgeneration console upgrades success.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:10
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Read my post fishmech, I said it makes it likely, not that it's a guarantee. We'll have to see what happens in terms of game sizes when November 7th rolls around, a lot's going to depend on the size distribution of games.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:28
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univbee posted:(although it sounds like Microsoft has something brewing for this, cautiously optimistic it turns out to be effective) What's this?
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Oct 5, 2017 17:33
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i preordered a bonx and i really have no clue why but it sounded kind of fun at the time my S isn't even a good 4k blu ray player anymore, in fact its getting kind of bad at that too if only my friends weren't dumb master chief nutswingers and bought the right system ps the sharktank thread is broken Auron fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 17:34
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King Burgundy posted:What's this? The exact specifics aren't fully public yet but in the OS development pipeline they've made it so content types can be selectively installed/deleted. Hypothetically once this is correctly implemented it would mean you could do things like say you only want to install single player, or only want to install multiplayer, things like that. Right now the distribution of a game's size content can get super-weird and messy, especially in Europe where a game can include like 7 or 8 audio languages (Watch Dogs on PC from Europe is 22 gigs. If you delete the audio language assets for languages you're NOT using and only keep one, the game's size drops to 15 gigs with zero change in terms of playthrough. The game's options menu even handles this transparently, the "audio language" menu just auto-lists which languages are available and doesn't list languages which aren't). You also have games like DOOM and Halo 5 where they have giant patches (30ish gigs and 51.9 gigs, respectively) for online multiplayer content. I mean it's nice there's that much free content (and good thing it's free now for DOOM, since in the season pass days vanilla users had a 30 gig "gently caress you" patch they couldn't opt out of), but since it's a mandatory patch you can't opt out of installing it short of taking the console entirely offline, and lose out on any of the tweaks and fixes applied to the single player mode which would have been a much smaller patch by themselves. See, if this works out the way it looks like it will, this almost completely solves the issue I'm talking about. If Microsoft couples this with a better QA process post-firing-everyone-in-QA so they stop accidentally pushing dev builds that force a total game re-download (and then another total redownload when it's fixed) then we'll be in business. Auron posted:ps the sharktank thread is broken VideoGames has apologized for the tank having the wrong RAM and they are diligently RMAing the thread and getting ready to redownload everything. univbee fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 17:41
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Auron posted:i preordered a bonx and i really have no clue why but it sounded kind of fun at the time Your friends sound like cool dudes who do not conform to peer pressure. Also, the sharktank is always kind of broken, that's its thing.
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Oct 5, 2017 17:46
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univbee posted:Number of American homes which can't even get 3mbps internet: 4.9 million That's nice and all, but downloading 60GB isn't a big deal for me, and not a big deal for any of my friends. If it's possible for that to not be a big deal for me, then it is possible for anyone. People in these bad situations where they don't have much bandwidth, or have download caps need to complain to their ISPs. Why is it they have trouble giving their customers more speed and data? In most cases it's total bullshit so they don't have to spend money to improve their infrastructure. The US government has even given money to ISPs over the years to improve their service and they don't do anything. This isn't an Xbox problem, it's an ISP problem. ISPs need to realize that the future of the internet is people downloading lots of data. Games are getting bigger, and so are streaming movies and TV shows. Pretending they can't offer more than 15mbs won't cut it. Unfortunately people are going to get mad at Microsoft instead of their internet provider.
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Oct 5, 2017 18:02
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Nah people get mad at their ISP's plenty, and in a lot of areas are promptly told to get hosed (or a boilerplate response that expansion is planned or something) because it's not like they have any other option short of moving homes. Availability can be really just random; I have unlimited gigabit internet where I am but I can also walk to areas where your only internet option is sub-3mbps with download limits of like 10 gigs a month and cost >$100 a month. People can and have complained extensively in these areas especially since that limits a lot of job prospects, they get a cookie-cutter response about how new areas are getting wired up regularly and it's been like that for...10 years or so at least? And lol if you think the FTC or CRTC are ensuring anything gets done.
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Oct 5, 2017 18:11
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univbee posted:The exact specifics aren't fully public yet but in the OS development pipeline they've made it so content types can be selectively installed/deleted. Hypothetically once this is correctly implemented it would mean you could do things like say you only want to install single player, or only want to install multiplayer, things like that. Oh, this is super cool.
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Oct 5, 2017 18:25
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Cojawfee posted:That's nice and all, but downloading 60GB isn't a big deal for me, and not a big deal for any of my friends. If it's possible for that to not be a big deal for me, then it is possible for anyone. FYGMbps
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Oct 5, 2017 20:25
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Max22 posted:FYGMbps Way to read the entirely wrong message from that.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:27
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Why organise a protest movement to force the national ISP oligopoly to improve service and infrastructure for customers on predatory data cap pricing when there's already a console for people like that and it's called the Xbox 360
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Oct 5, 2017 20:31
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Cojawfee posted:Way to read the entirely wrong message from that. No that's exactly what you're saying. It's very much not possible to download that much data for a large amount of people. I know some, it's not a fun time. They're trying to change it, but nothing's changed so far.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:32
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univbee posted:No that's exactly what you're saying. It's very much not possible to download that much data for a large amount of people. I know some, it's not a fun time. They're trying to change it, but nothing's changed so far. Yeah that's sad and all, but I'm not part of the barely Internet crew and am thus not interested.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:35
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Zedsdeadbaby fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 20:36
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Cojawfee posted:Way to read the entirely wrong message from that. Well this is the Xbox thread. univbee posted:No that's exactly what you're saying. It's very much not possible to download that much data for a large amount of people. I know some, it's not a fun time. They're trying to change it, but nothing's changed so far. Look, if you don't pay bonuses to executives, they'll look for jobs elsewhere and all you'll be stuck with is people actually willing to do their jobs for an inflated salary.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:41
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Guys, I bought a $90k car but I can't afford to put gas in it/nor does my 1 stoplight town sell gasoline in any form but two stroke chainsaw petrol, this is clearly Microsoft's problem and why do they keep making their games bigger, why don't they just optimize 4k textures down into kb sized chunks like the GOOD programmers used to do on games like EA's "Summer Games" on the Apple II? Because greed, that's why <posts a thousand words on how an extra 3 P's make a different console that has the same online problems as every modern device is actually superior>
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Oct 5, 2017 20:51
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Ether Frenzy posted:Guys, I bought a $90k car but I can't afford to put gas in it/nor does my 1 stoplight town sell gasoline in any form but two stroke chainsaw petrol, this is clearly Microsoft's problem and why do they keep making their games bigger, why don't they just optimize 4k textures down into kb sized chunks like the GOOD programmers used to do on games like EA's "Summer Games" on the Apple II? Sir,
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Oct 5, 2017 20:54
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univbee posted:No that's exactly what you're saying. It's very much not possible to download that much data for a large amount of people. I know some, it's not a fun time. They're trying to change it, but nothing's changed so far. I suppose you could argue that with that small snippet of my entire post taken out of context. Read the rest of my post and you should understand what my point was. If you don't, I'll reiterate it: Downloading a lot of data these days isn't a big deal. And if it is a big deal, there is a problem with that ISP. There's no reason to be bandwidth or data limited. Any ISP who says that is lying to you. Aside from very rural areas where ISPs refuse to run lines despite being paid to do so by the government, there's no reason for anyone in an area with a water and sewer system to have subpar internet. Downloading a new major game that's 60GB isn't new, and it isn't a lot. That's the norm and it will only be getting bigger. If people aren't able to download that much, they need to complain to their ISP and ask them why they haven't caught up to the rest of the civilized world. I wasn't bragging about my big American internet, I was stating that it is not normal to worry about hitting a data cap on home internet. I don't even have good internet, it's only 25Mb/s at best. I used to get almost 100Mb/s when I lived in San Antonio.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:57
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Guys lemme make a car analogy so you non Xbros might get it (or not, you're probably too poor to afford one lmao):
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Oct 5, 2017 20:58
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Cojawfee posted:I suppose you could argue that with that small snippet of my entire post taken out of context. Read the rest of my post and you should understand what my point was. If you don't, I'll reiterate it: Downloading a lot of data these days isn't a big deal. And if it is a big deal, there is a problem with that ISP. There's no reason to be bandwidth or data limited. Any ISP who says that is lying to you. Aside from very rural areas where ISPs refuse to run lines despite being paid to do so by the government, there's no reason for anyone in an area with a water and sewer system to have subpar internet. Downloading a new major game that's 60GB isn't new, and it isn't a lot. That's the norm and it will only be getting bigger. If people aren't able to download that much, they need to complain to their ISP and ask them why they haven't caught up to the rest of the civilized world. I wasn't bragging about my big American internet, I was stating that it is not normal to worry about hitting a data cap on home internet. I don't even have good internet, it's only 25Mb/s at best. I used to get almost 100Mb/s when I lived in San Antonio. I agree with everything you've written here except the suggestion that complaining to your ISP is likely to change a goddamn thing other than the blood pressure of the punching bag the ISP hired for you to take out your aggression on. 
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Oct 5, 2017 21:05
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Healbot posted:Guys lemme make a car analogy so you non Xbros might get it (or not, you're probably too poor to afford one lmao): Go on. Commit to the bit. 
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Oct 5, 2017 21:11
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univbee posted:I agree with everything you've written here except the suggestion that complaining to your ISP is likely to change a goddamn thing other than the blood pressure of the punching bag the ISP hired for you to take out your aggression on. They get away with it because a vast majority of their customer base is old people who use all their services. My dad rents a bunch of cable boxes, of which only half see any use. He uses the ondemand features and records onto the two DVRs he rents. He doesn't have any kind of streaming media accounts. He stays within their ecosystem, and he's the ideal customer. I don't watch cable TV, I get all my media from streaming media or downloading. All of my data comes from outside their network, so they probably hate me. As more and more people start dropping cable and treating their ISP as a service provider, instead of a media provider, they will start demanding better service. It will take a while, but cable companies have survived by pissing off a minority of their customers while most just pay the bill each month and watch the history channel or whatever Real Housewives of City Name show. Eventually those people will be outnumbered by people who just want internet and the cable companies will have to change.
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Oct 5, 2017 21:17
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Healbot posted:Guys lemme make a car analogy so you non Xbros might get it (or not, you're probably too poor to afford one lmao): Shitposts are met with shitposts, it's how this thread works. Sorrrrrry for making a joke on this, a comedy forum, but "People who buy luxury products (which is what all video game consoles are) should be ready to pay for the associated costs" isn't that wild a latestage capitalism statement. Meanwhile the PS4 has the exact same goddamn constraints. As does every part of being in an online world.
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Oct 5, 2017 22:20
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univbee posted:Read my post fishmech, I said it makes it likely, not that it's a guarantee. It doesn't make it likely, that's the loving point. There's no connection at all between the things. Fact is the vast majority of America only has one actual choice for their internet connection: the local cable provider. Because DSL is completely non-competitive due to being like 7 megabit service at best in most areas. A small percentage of places have a fiber ISP which can actually provide an alternate service, or an alternate cable ISP. Yet the vast majority of Americans don't have any bandwidth cap. I don't know what dumb poo poo is going on up in Canada besides the CRTC being useless and everyone having like 1 megabit upload max, but that has very little to do with America. Cojawfee posted:Why is it they have trouble giving their customers more speed and data? In most cases it's total bullshit so they don't have to spend money to improve their infrastructure. The US government has even given money to ISPs over the years to improve their service and they don't do anything. This isn't an Xbox problem, it's an ISP problem. ISPs need to realize that the future of the internet is people downloading lots of data. Internet has actually improved massively in the us over the years, though. Speeds have increased massively, even the minority of people with data caps have had the data caps increased by a lot, while the majority still have no data cap. Cojawfee posted:Aside from very rural areas where ISPs refuse to run lines despite being paid to do so by the government This doesn't happen. You seem to be thinking of the 90s plans to implement "broadband" everywhere where the definition of broadband was services over 200 kilobits per second (because this was the mid-90s that the rules for it were being written, and 56k analog modems had basically just came out. obviously 200k would be broadband, it was 4x faster!!), and which most ISPs involved decided to do by building cell towers and selling them to the big carriers, which soon supported such speeds. No one was ever going to get 100 megabit service at home out of that program, but it did massively expand rural cell phone services.
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Oct 5, 2017 22:46
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If you don't have an unmetered gigabit connection you might as well not be human tbh. E: Also ISP's are evil and the entire c-suite of every one of them should probably be dragged through the streets by their entrails, mounted on pikes until only their bones remain which will then be returned to their families.
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Oct 5, 2017 22:53
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Lol Jesus Christ. "What about the people who don't have good internet and can't download lots of things?" "They should complain to their ISP, low bandwidth isn't acceptable." "Actually, most people have really fast internet, so no one has problems with low bandwidth. I don't know why you are bringing up bad internet speeds."
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Oct 5, 2017 22:56
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Cojawfee posted:Lol Jesus Christ. You actually posted some conspiracy theory poo poo about how nothing's been improved in years and that an FCC program that ended in 2000 is still going though, bro.
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Oct 5, 2017 23:00
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https://twitter.com/majornelson/status/909488959188746240
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Oct 5, 2017 23:06
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fishmech posted:You actually posted some conspiracy theory poo poo about how nothing's been improved in years and that an FCC program that ended in 2000 is still going though, bro. It's not a conspiracy theory when ISPs themselves make statements saying it's unfair that some people download a lot and they start testing low data caps in some markets.
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Oct 5, 2017 23:52
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Cojawfee posted:It's not a conspiracy theory when ISPs themselves make statements saying it's unfair that some people download a lot and they start testing low data caps in some markets. You claimed that they're getting money to expand in rural areas and then refusing to expand in rural areas. That was a thing that happened in the 90s and specifically was because of the way the rules were written, building cell towers counted as building broadband service under the very low standards for broadband of the time. You claimed, "Why is it they have trouble giving their customers more speed and data? In most cases it's total bullshit so they don't have to spend money to improve their infrastructure. The US government has even given money to ISPs over the years to improve their service and they don't do anything. ". This isn't true, the services have improved across the board, and even bandwidth caps in the places that have them have been raised. The main things that stagnate are places where the only service is DSL, because DSL service is effectively incapable of being improved - there's a fixed relationship between distance to the central office and maximum possible speed on the line which means DSL providers rarely meet promised speeds and have next to no hope of improving actual speeds. Also what do you even mean by "testing low data caps in some markets" when all of those markets have straight up had low data caps for 15+ years - that's not a loving test anymore bro.
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Oct 6, 2017 00:05
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I find it funny being on the upside down side of the world (Australia) where the situation is the opposite. We used to have strict on-peak and off-peak quotas as well as a "freezone" (some ISPs would offer steam / xbox / apple downloads quota free). and now we can get an unlimited service from whatever provider you want wherever you are and it will be 25Mbit guaranteed (from 2020 onwards).
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Oct 6, 2017 00:08
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