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It sucks I didn't get a launch day 8700K, but Ryzen's were def sold out for a pretty long time. I know cause I kept impulsively nearly buying them when they came back in stock.  And remember they rolled them out over a long window, initial launch was only the 1800X and 1700. As of right now, there is still stock of the 8100, 8350K, and the i5 8400 most places and the 8700 non-K was available until this afternoon. Really was just the 8600K and 8700K that got gobbled up, but there was obviously some pent up demand there. I dunno if its something to really get mad over. It wasn't available last week to buy, and its still not available today unless you got up early.
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Oct 5, 2017 22:53
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SourKraut posted:Oh comeon Paul, if this was AMD and they'd shipped only a few thousand units or such, you'd call it a paper launch. (Actually didn't you berate AMD about Vega's limited release quantities?) Well, how many units did Intel ship? I'm just not sure that I buy that Intel will have shortages lasting more than a quarter on a product that uses a wildly mature node like 14nm++. If true, it's gonna be a pretty poor quarter for Intel since they just Osborne Effect'd all their midrange+high-end sales out of existence. Not sure OEMs will be getting much stock this quarter though.
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Oct 5, 2017 23:04
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Stock issues need only persist for a month at this point to hurt on holiday sales, IMHO. Like they don't need a massive shortage, just not being able to meet even 50% of said demand, because Intel hasn't defeated AMD based on press but simply made Ryzen an alternative. Then, all AMD needs to do is leak poo poo about Pinnacle IF it can beat Coffeelake. People will get salty as gently caress though if Pinnacle is a 4.5Ghz ceiling and decoupled IF because Zen is core for core as fast as Skylake on 3600Mhz CL14 (Yes, gratz if you can get that right now though lmao). Like, I legit think Pinnacle has some real noticeable advantages over Summit since Raven and Pinnacle are launching inside the same window and based on AMD's prices it could be quite hard to sell someone on any 4 core Summit Rehash when Raven exists.
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Oct 5, 2017 23:32
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Paul MaudDib posted:Well, how many units did Intel ship? At least in the UK, practically none. OCUK said they got 30 OEM units and 0 retail units, and since I ordered from Scan within the first ten minutes and still got my order delayed until November 1st I assume they didn't get any retail stock either.
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Oct 5, 2017 23:38
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One national Canadian retailer still has about 40 8400 in stock. So if we’re generous, they got say 150 of each k sku for an entire country. Seems like low volume to me.
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Oct 5, 2017 23:49
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Cygni posted:It sucks I didn't get a launch day 8700K, but Ryzen's were def sold out for a pretty long time. I know cause I kept impulsively nearly buying them when they came back in stock. Paul MaudDib posted:Well, how many units did Intel ship? We can't say yet, but clearly not much at all with how quick some models sold out. I think the NES Classic stayed in stock longer.  Edit: And I'm not trying to originally imply that AMD doesn't deserve it at times, but rather that similar activities/events can happen by different companies, and people on the forums will rip out the throat of one while glossing over for the other. Companies don't deserve loyalty and should always get equal treatment/complaint. Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 00:34
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SourKraut posted:We can't say yet, but clearly not much at all with how quick some models sold out. I think the NES Classic stayed in stock longer. I interpreted the earlier rumors as "stock is going to be tight and we're probably not going to be shipping in bulk to OEMs for a while" rather than "stuff is going to be literally unavailable for 3+ months". I guess we'll see, those kind of numbers don't bode well, but on the other hand I don't understand why they would have an issue with such a mature node. This is their third spin on this process... In other words, I think this is going to be more like the 1070 launch than the 1080 launch. Stock is going to be tight for a while and it's going to sell out fairly quickly, but it will be available for someone who's willing to watch for it. Contrast that to the 1080 launch where it was restocking like once a week or less, and being instantly decimated by bots. The fact that I live near a Microcenter (if anyone has stock it'll be them), that I'm already sitting on a decent rig, and that I know there's potentially something better coming down the pipe fairly soon also tend to color my response here. I'm not sufficiently interested to the degree that I want to put up with launch shenanigans and overpay and all that crap, I can always come back in 9 months and get a Z390 instead. But you have to admit that AMD launches are the biggest trainwrecks in the industry Six months on, Ryzen is a pretty solid product and Vega will probably clean up its act somewhat too.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:06
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I'm wondering if Vega availability has more to do with the incoming transition to the 12nm. If it's coming in like the next 4-6 months with much improved performance there is a pretty limited reason to keep pushing it on an 14nmLPP besides filling out MI25 and Apple orders. I mean custom AIB versions are only just going to start trickling out by the end of the month, real availability by the end of November, and then it's possible Vega 10v2 on 12nmLP in March-April would leave a pretty sour taste in peoples mouths.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:10
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FaustianQ posted:I'm wondering if Vega availability has more to do with the incoming transition to the 12nm. If it's coming in like the next 4-6 months with much improved performance there is a pretty limited reason to keep pushing it on an 14nmLPP besides filling out MI25 and Apple orders. I mean custom AIB versions are only just going to start trickling out by the end of the month, real availability by the end of November, and then it's possible Vega 10v2 on 12nmLP in March-April would leave a pretty sour taste in peoples mouths. If you put the rumors together, what it kinda suggests is that HBM2 is in real short supply, particularly stuff that can hit the clocks they want, and that it's quite expensive. AMD really had no choice but to launch regardless, and they just did a small batch which was sold at/below cost. They're hanging out and waiting for Hynix to get HBM2 production going and partners to get custom cards going. Which is exactly the definition of a paper launch, tbh. Let alone Vega FE, which I don't think has even gotten a driver update since launch  I mean, even with yield issues they should be rolling in Vega 56 dies, so why not make cards? Either there's some other bottleneck in the supply chain (gazes meaningfully towards HBM2) or they're selling them at a loss or both. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 01:16
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I only bought ryzen because Intel is a garbage rear end company that I hate even more than amds constantly crashing gpu drivers back in the day. Ill never buy another amd gpu but I really dont want them to fail, intel is shady and exactly the type of company to abuse a monopoly. They already with the whole no solder thing.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:17
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underage at the vape shop posted:I only bought ryzen because Intel is a garbage rear end company that I hate even more than amds constantly crashing gpu drivers back in the day. Ill never buy another amd gpu but I really dont want them to fail, intel is shady and exactly the type of company to abuse a monopoly. They already with the whole no solder thing. I might actually be willing to buy an AMD GPU at some point when they actually have the moment of Zen they've been hinting at since Vega was announced, seeing as how all GPU drivers are bastards in 2017, but this is about my opinion on Intel.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:30
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Paul MaudDib posted:If you put the rumors together, what it kinda suggests is that HBM2 is in real short supply, particularly stuff that can hit the clocks they want, and that it's quite expensive. AMD really had no choice but to launch regardless, and they just did a small batch which was sold at/below cost. They're hanging out and waiting for Hynix to get HBM2 production going and partners to get custom cards going. Which is exactly the definition of a paper launch, tbh. I don't deny that HBM2 might be the primary bottleneck, in fact I think it's why Vega has released so late. But I don't think at this point it's the primary reason why there is such a great degree of unavailability, rather AMD is simply fast approaching a refresh and feels no need to invest in large orders of Vega 10 on 14nmLPP anymore, fulfilling bare minimum contractual obligations. Imagine being the guys looking at the margins and sales numbers on Vega 10 right now for consumer and trying not to laugh at the absurd notion they'd recommend producing more.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:33
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Paul MaudDib posted:The fact that I live near a Microcenter (if anyone has stock it'll be them), that I'm already sitting on a decent rig, and that I know there's potentially something better coming down the pipe fairly soon also tend to color my response here. I'm not sufficiently interested to the degree that I want to put up with launch shenanigans and overpay and all that crap, I can always come back in 9 months and get a Z390 instead. I'm sitting on a sandy bridge E rig here (workstation, not that much gaming) from 2012 and I am looking fondly at the new consumer CPUs as I just off-loaded my VMs and build machines and whatnot to the dual-Xeon basement machine. But even I would not be willing to overpay for this crap. If need be I'll hold until ryzen 2 or the next Intel platform, as my machine is still running and serving me well. The X and TR lines from both AMD and Intel, while quite speedy and awesome, do demand quite a hefty premium and I wonder if it's all worth it. I have 6 wish-lists on newegg with various combinations of MBs and CPUs and drat, even the cheapest versions go at around $1400 CAD for MB+CPU+32GB RAM+cooler. and they run all the way to over $2k. gently caress that poo poo.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:39
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FaustianQ posted:I don't deny that HBM2 might be the primary bottleneck, in fact I think it's why Vega has released so late. But I don't think at this point it's the primary reason why there is such a great degree of unavailability, rather AMD is simply fast approaching a refresh and feels no need to invest in large orders of Vega 10 on 14nmLPP anymore, fulfilling bare minimum contractual obligations. Imagine being the guys looking at the margins and sales numbers on Vega 10 right now for consumer and trying not to laugh at the absurd notion they'd recommend producing more. Is 12LP such a big deal? I thought it was basically just one of those evolutionary die-shrinks where they finally feel they've got enough of a handle on the process to warrant coming up with a new marketing name for it, like when they went to the "new process" on the RX 580. But yeah I'm sure there's lots of factors that are contributing to AMD slow-walking production. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 01:43
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They have unhelpfully claimed 15% smaller die area and 10% increase in performance over...16nmFF+. So the imrpovement from 14nmLPP to 12nmLP is all about 14nmLPPs relative capability versus 16nmFF+. It could mean loving anything honestly, up to and including being a marketing name and nothing more, but I want to lean on it being substantial enough for GloFo and AMD to be taking these measures. Like, rebranding 14nmLPP performance is going to loving fool anyone in this industry. Right? Right?!
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Oct 6, 2017 01:56
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"12LP" is a rebrand of Samsungs 14LPP with Global Foundries designed 7.5T libraries in places. Pretty much everything else is the same. It's what AMD was calling 14+ on earlier slides. As that extremetech article put it: "Anyone expecting anything but the most modest of performance or power improvements is probably overselling the boost."
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Oct 6, 2017 02:04
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That's my understanding too, this is a 14LPP+ with marketing crap tacked on top, just like TSMC's 12nm node that NVIDIA is using for Volta. "Leading performance" is a great name because it can mean literally anything. Is it "leading" as in "early", and it sucks? Is it "leading" because it's the best? ...
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Oct 6, 2017 02:09
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Cygni posted:"12LP" is a rebrand of Samsungs 14LPP with Global Foundries designed 7.5T libraries in places. Pretty much everything else is the same. It's what AMD was calling 14+ on earlier slides. I hope they do a revision to the layout and logic at the same time, because there is some low hanging fruit that should be easily fixable with Zen. That probably doesn't include the linked memory<->internal bus, that seems like a decision that was made too early in the design process to change quickly, and will be the big thing for Zen2. The nice thing at least is that it should be easy to identify 14nm vs 12nm chips, as they will get different model numbers.
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Oct 6, 2017 02:47
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Cygni posted:"12LP" is a rebrand of Samsungs 14LPP with Global Foundries designed 7.5T libraries in places. Pretty much everything else is the same. It's what AMD was calling 14+ on earlier slides. I don't think it's going to be revolutionary, but Zen with +10% frequency and an even smaller die size is a serious net positive.  Am I reading this graph right, in that the 7.5T libraries are worse than 9T? WTF?
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Oct 6, 2017 03:21
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I really hope that the Pinnacle 1800X (1801X? 2800X? How will that work 🤔) hits ~4400mhz @ < 1.4v, and maybe does something useful with >3666mhz DDR4 I've never paid attention before, do timings usually tighten down over time? AFAICT most of the >3600mhz DDR4 is CL18+ Edit: Saw this over on r/amd,  HOW
New Zealand can eat me fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 04:23
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New Zealand can eat me posted:Edit: Saw this over on r/amd, Must be the mayonnaise.
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Oct 6, 2017 07:09
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The box said X370 compatible 
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Oct 6, 2017 09:23
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I don't know understand what's going on in that photo... maybe it's because my brain is trying to preserve my sanity.
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Oct 6, 2017 09:25
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I don't know understand what's going on in that photo... maybe it's because my brain is trying to preserve my sanity. If I see everything correctly, the CPU turned into a LGA/PGA hybrid.
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Oct 6, 2017 10:03
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I don't know understand what's going on in that photo... maybe it's because my brain is trying to preserve my sanity. I think the pins broke off inside the socket on the motherboard.
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Oct 6, 2017 10:08
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I don't know understand what's going on in that photo... maybe it's because my brain is trying to preserve my sanity. The socket is half full of pins.
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Oct 6, 2017 10:30
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I thought it was some cool two-tone thing for a premium SKU, maybe.
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Oct 6, 2017 10:35
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I can only assume that when they pulled the processor, they peeled it out instead of lifted straight up and I see what's going on now. This actually makes some sense when you consider how sockets are manufactured, but I think that's what happened: Someone tried to pull the chip at an angle, and torqued the pins into breaking the top cover of the socket. Had to open the image up in a new tab and zoom in, but I finally got there! SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 10:42
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I'm sure this sort of stupidity was prevalent since a long time ago, but before the ubiquity of social media sensationalism and smartphone cameras.
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Oct 6, 2017 10:52
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ufarn posted:The 99th percentile performance if Intel vs AMD is pretty disgusting. Selling people on Ryzen as a videogame CPU is hard, and marketing CPUs to "content creators" (ugh) is still a new concept, but looks like that's what AMD needs to do given how the videogame performance looks.  What is going on with the memory performance on Ryzen on these benchmarks? Are they testing against a non-PC3200 config, because throughput should be considerably higher. I smell some bullshit.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:12
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Assume all Ryzen benchmarks are done with DDR4-2400 unless confirmed otherwise
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Oct 6, 2017 16:17
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I get that AMD made things unnecessary complicated for themselves by synchronizing the IPC to memory clock and poo poo like that is what has gotten them a bad reputation with major OEMs for desktops and server platforms alike, but running a poor config with a substantial performance penalty on multi-threaded workloads while at the same time making the effort to overclock a 8700k to its ragged edge is dogshit journalism.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:22
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:
It's perfectly fair to use stock RAM speeds for Ryzen.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:23
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Lolcano Eruption posted:It's perfectly fair to use stock RAM speeds for Ryzen. Not when you're using PC3200 on the comparison chip, which the benchmark was.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:48
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AMD has to know that decoupling the IF from the IMC is hugely important, like the number one thing they need to address in some fashion, even if it's a better divider due to inherent design limitations. Yeah, and for a proper review why aren't they clear about the platforms used to test for both AM4 and LGA1151v1? Also what's is up with the funky Crypto performance on Coffeelake? It's ratio compared to other performance metrics is eerily similar to Summit, while all other Intel CPUs put forward very strong performance. Is this merely an optimization issue?
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Oct 6, 2017 17:18
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Xae posted:Not when you're using PC3200 on the comparison chip, which the benchmark was. Also, they measured performance against Ryzen chips, but the power draw against Threadripper and the 1800X...
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Oct 6, 2017 17:31
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"Crypto" could be a lot of things, I don't know the specific of Geekbench's Implimentation, but its probably some flavor of AES128/256, probably in CBC mode, throughput testing. They might or might not be using AES-NI or just doing it entirely in software. If you're encrypting files on disk, you're going to need to need multiple NVMe drives before disk isn't the bottleneck and you would need to be running multiple 10gb encrypted network tunnels for it to be an issue with network throughput. AES GCM mode seems to be considerably faster on modern processors too, and they probably aren't using that.
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Oct 6, 2017 17:33
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Have any official websites done some controlled benchmarks on the effect of RAM speed and timings on Ryzen? I know a ton of end-users have, but I'm looking for that anandtech-level rigor here.
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Oct 6, 2017 17:34
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bobfather posted:Have any official websites done some controlled benchmarks on the effect of RAM speed and timings on Ryzen?
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Oct 6, 2017 17:49
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:gamersnexus did iirc Indeed they did, thanks. Here's the link. For the 1700x, the takeaway is basically: 1700x oc'ed to 3.9ghz + 2933 RAM <= 1700x at stock + 3466 RAM 1700x oc'ed to 3.9ghz + 3466 RAM is quite fast. Still 10-20% slower than the 7700K at stock speeds. Which I think is totally expected for gaming. Any recent Coffee Lake review that was not using fast RAM for the Ryzens is doing those chips a huge disservice. Which is probably what those sites are incentivized to do anyhow. bobfather fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 18:03
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