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Well, okay then. Putting your hand around someone during a photo op is fine. It's not creepy at all unless you make it so.
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Oct 6, 2017 07:54
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CelticPredator posted:Well, okay then. I think the context in which idubz did it definitely made it creepy. If any given fan were to sling his or her arm around her I still think it would be a little overly chummy, but that's in the eye of the beholder. If you go on a cross-country roadtrip for the premeditated purpose of making someone you don't know uncomfortable then you probably shouldn't touch them at all. To be honest, I don't really want to be arguing the specifics of him holding his hand around her because I think the entire act of him going out there is dreadful.
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Oct 6, 2017 08:03
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cat doter posted:the particulars of the incident aren't really all that important, the response itself is just weird and slightly creepy like loving seriously do people not get that No because there was literally nothing creepy or sexual about any single part of the whole thing seeing as it was demonstrating a person's total hypocrisy? He went there, it happened, he was asked to leave and he left without any further incident. I mean, if someone else who had a following who I'd not interacted with in the slightest told me out of the blue to kill myself I'd be pretty pissed off too as I'm sure any of you would be. Like, when people bitch here about the sort of dickheads who make bags of money doing Youtube, Tana Mongeau is literally the exact person you're talking about. She's an arsehole with a record of treating people, staff and so on like total poo poo - she's really quite awful, and really not worth favouring here...like, at all. JordanKai posted:... EDIT: Dude, the trip wasn't cross-country, it was LA to San Francisco. Why are you repeating that EDIT 2: And man, it was at a loving meet and greet. People PUT ARMS around each other for photos, especially at meet and greets. Like, that'd be 9 photos out of 10. Seriously come on now. Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 08:04
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Kim Justice posted:EDIT: Dude, the trip wasn't cross-country, it was LA to San Francisco. Why are you repeating that I come from a fairly small country, so for me a four-ish hour drive is cross-country. My bad. The specifics aren't really important, however. I could replace the statement with "halfway across the state" and it wouldn't really change anything about my stance.
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Oct 6, 2017 08:09
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But the important thing is, did she ever say anything negative about white people that could be taken to be hateful If she did, she deserves everything coming to her. Is there an Internet reviewer named Jesus somewhere? This thread could use them right about now
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Oct 6, 2017 08:40
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As long as you're here, Kim, any plans for a documentary on Team 17 ? I mean, their bullshit lawsuit would be material enough for a video, but I'd love to see a complete history on them.
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Oct 6, 2017 08:42
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Kim Justice posted:I have a few misgivings about posting this article but it does cover a couple of people who tend to get (mostly negative) time in the thread - it's noted skeptic Richard Carrier's account of MythCon IV, the event that just happened which featured a talk from Armoured Skeptic and Shoe0nhead, as well as a debate between far left skeptic Thomas Smith and Sargon of Akkad (you may recall that folks like Kristi Winters and Steve Shives tried to get both of these things shut down). It breaks down the contrasts between the talk and the debate and detailing the different approaches in play and what can be done, and I personally found it to be quite an interesting read although I'm sure people will have strong opinions on it either way. Just try not to take anyone's heads off or stuff like that. Thanks for sharing that article, it was a very insightful look at the situation. One line that really stuck out to me was “You can’t correct a perspective you don’t understand. And you can’t understand a perspective if you never listen to anyone living it.” It’s a very powerful statement and resonates perfectly with my own beliefs. That kind of attitude is also sadly quite a rare thing these days, especially online, so it was good to see someone advocating for it.
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Oct 6, 2017 09:22
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Bad Wolf posted:As long as you're here, Kim, any plans for a documentary on Team 17 ? I mean, their bullshit lawsuit would be material enough for a video, but I'd love to see a complete history on them. Almost definitely,. yes. Prob before the year is out.
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Oct 6, 2017 11:00
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That piece humanizes both armored and shoe, but in a "Oh God, everyone around them is either vile or stupid". Including on how guilable the writer is ("Asra Nomani is on the pro side! Never mind the super dishonest Muslim Trump voting poo poo! Waaa, how was Laci Green vilified in the first place with ties to Chris Gun and how she straight up embraced people who drew her rape art bc thry didn't tell her to gently caress off with the two gender s-*Bucket falls on head* Who turned out the lights"). Good God I feel so bad for them now. Well, at least the next time """a skeptic""" shows up online that wasn't boasted thru some dark money mercer poo poo, i can at least go "ok was the editor of their pieces not also a garbage human". Christ Almighty. I took the time to read and attempted to be as charitable as i could, but my only syhmpathies are with those two. Kunster fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 12:40
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Kunster posted:That piece humanizes both armored and shoe, but in a "Oh God, everyone around them is either vile or stupid". Including on how guilable the writer is ("Asra Nomani is on the pro side! Never mind the super dishonest Muslim Trump voting poo poo! Waaa, how was Laci Green vilified in the first place with ties to Chris Gun and how she straight up embraced people who drew her rape art bc thry didn't tell her to gently caress off with the two gender s-*Bucket falls on head* Who turned out the lights"). Good God I feel so bad for them now. I hardly think the author gave Asra Nomani a pass on that seeing as he basically said that her support for Trump was bizarre, that she was crediting him for things he had basically nothing to do with and didn't give her much credit for anything really beyond being civil in her debate in comparison to Sargon. And he wasn't wrong when it comes to how people took Laci's "red pilling" or whatever you want to call it - it didn't go down well at all, and that's before you get to her meeting folks like Sargon at Vidcon (I dunno, what was she supposed to do? Spit in his face? Do something utterly against the direction that she'd decided to take? I mean, if you say "I want to converse with people on the other side" and then personally ignore one of the biggest voices - like it or not - on that side then that's a pretty bad look) or anyone even knowing she was in a relationship with Chris Ray Gun tbh. As soon as Laci said she was going to start debating anti-fem/MRA/MGTOW people and all that with the aim to meet on some middle ground, the SJ community at large turned against her. I threw my own coins in then too. Things like two genders and all that...jeez yeah, that's just a subject for another time right there. I don't see how the article paints the author as a "garbage human" at all, but I guess that's the way the conversation works these days.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:47
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This is cool and not a lovely back-and-forth about some idiot I don't care about, so I'm bumping it to this page.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:48
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The default reaction to Carlgon should be spitting in his face.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:52
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Kim Justice posted:I hardly think the author gave Asra Nomani a pass on that seeing as he basically said that her support for Trump was bizarre, that she was crediting him for things he had basically nothing to do with and didn't give her much credit for anything really beyond being civil in her debate in comparison to Sargon. And he wasn't wrong when it comes to how people took Laci's "red pilling" or whatever you want to call it - it didn't go down well at all, and that's before you get to her meeting folks like Sargon at Vidcon (I dunno, what was she supposed to do? Spit in his face? Do something utterly against the direction that she'd decided to take? I mean, if you say "I want to converse with people on the other side" and then personally ignore one of the biggest voices - like it or not - on that side then that's a pretty bad look) or anyone even knowing she was in a relationship with Chris Ray Gun tbh. As soon as Laci said she was going to start debating anti-fem/MRA/MGTOW people and all that with the aim to meet on some middle ground, the SJ community at large turned against her. I threw my own coins in then too. Things like two genders and all that...jeez yeah, that's just a subject for another time right there. I didn't call the author a garbage human, just guilable. Second, Laci's turn involved looking at years of rape threats and going "yeah this side is way better than the one who told my recent pieces sucked". She's just as much of a huckster than the one you defended that idubbz thung on. Third, the garbage human part is directed at those that guided armored and shoe into aiding the alt right and reassuring of positons that were otherwise bad as being neutral.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:57
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Kim Justice posted:I think people here could generally go for Papa Franku at least. Most of the videos he does (at least what I've seen) are just flat out funny and weird (and sometimes disgusting...hair cake...) in the main and don't have much of a political slant. Although there is a chance with watching him that you'll collapse into the Omniverse and start wearing a pink bodysuit, I guess. Found these today: perspectives from Thomas Smith and Matt Dillahunty.
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Oct 6, 2017 14:22
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I don't care how entertaining his content might be, idubbbz using friend of the family and human being as a grown-rear end, nearly 30 year old man is terrible and casts a pall over anything he does imo. I've seen people who lambasted PDP for dropping a hard r but then they're completely fine with idubbbz being reprehensible because he makes "funny videos" attacking other YouTubers. I personally don't see how this makes him any better than PDP or someone like Keemstar. Also gently caress Laci Green's TERFing rear end. I regret sticking up for her in this very thread a few months ago but that was before she drank whatever Kool-Aid she's on now.
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Oct 6, 2017 14:23
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Vanderdeath posted:I don't care how entertaining his content might be, idubbbz using friend of the family and human being as a grown-rear end, nearly 30 year old man is terrible and casts a pall over anything he does imo. I've seen people who lambasted PDP for dropping a hard r but then they're completely fine with idubbbz being reprehensible because he makes "funny videos" attacking other YouTubers. I personally don't see how this makes him any better than PDP or someone like Keemstar. PewDiePie actually appears at the end of the latest Content Cop video he did. Wasn't sure if anyone else noticed that, but it's...interesting considering recent events. (I wonder, though, if maybe it was filmed before PDP on-stream slur incident)
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Oct 6, 2017 14:41
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lol what is the hypothetical middle ground with the anti-fem/MRA/MGTOW people
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Oct 6, 2017 14:54
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The closet, closest thing I can picture is sometimes MRA folk follow Dirtbag Left figures (And part of why I brought up Asra was because the event has rather shaky views of what a pro-stance could be if they're picking someone who happily does the "I'm a Muslim but let me just defend every awful GOP thing" ordeal, even if the closest "reasonable" part of her piece was Trump rejecting GCC support (Which was bullshit then and now) and to this day someone like Rania Haiek (I presume she's Dirtbag Left?) is still getting poo poo from Hillary fans over a statement that was far, far more mild than Asra Nomani's .... entire Muslim Trump piece or current attacks on the Women's March). And I say "closest" on the grounds that it immediately collapses as soon as it catches their eye.
Kunster fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 15:02
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:lol what is the hypothetical middle ground with the anti-fem/MRA/MGTOW people strasserism
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Oct 6, 2017 15:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX4V8xWJyPw mweeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooo-BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN-mweeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooooo
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Oct 6, 2017 16:05
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I legitimately thought that was gonna be a review of Blade Runner 2049, given that's how the soundtrack is like.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:13
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Vanderdeath posted:I don't care how entertaining his content might be, idubbbz using friend of the family and human being as a grown-rear end, nearly 30 year old man is terrible and casts a pall over anything he does imo. I've seen people who lambasted PDP for dropping a hard r but then they're completely fine with idubbbz being reprehensible because he makes "funny videos" attacking other YouTubers. I personally don't see how this makes him any better than PDP or someone like Keemstar. Terf??? Can you please elaborate? I have to admit that at first I was horrified that Laci "switched sides". Then I got really embarrassed that I had the thought "Oh this is her boyfriends doing!". She's her own person (and a hella smart one) and it seems like these feelings were brewing even before she even met him. She was kind of hostile to the left at first but with the backlash she got I think that it's very understandable. When I look at her twitter now I just see, albeit with some eye roll worthy centrism thrown in there, a lot of the good work she's always been doing. I think that it's demeaning and misogynist to see RG as the person who "turned her". Being in what was basically cult probably made her worried about the echo chamber she had wandered into. That's what I think she distanced herself from. I don't see her as someone who switched sides. If she has the patience and energy for exploring the arguments from both sides more power to her. As a queer, biracial and not mentally healthy person I can't.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:29
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shes good at talking about like the act of sex but she's kinda dumb in everything else rip
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Oct 6, 2017 16:57
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Sarcopenia posted:Terf??? Can you please elaborate? Yeah she's not actually a TERF at all, don't worry about it. The crux of that whole thing seemed to come when she lambasted the belief that not wanting to have sex with a trans person is transphobic and misrepresented a joke Zinnia Jones tweet to do it...which is a shame, but hey it's not like you could just pull up a Riley Dennis video or something where she says the same thing (people naturally have preferences that can't just be changed). Also talking about biology with the whole two genders thing, which is fair enough because biology, chromosomes etc. are just one aspect of what makes someone who they are. As a trans woman some Youtube comment type trying to test me by saying I'm biologically male isn't exactly something that ruins my day 'cause it's like well...yeah - what's your point? Don't mean much in the other areas like psychology and brain make-up and poo poo - my sex/physical characteristics are male, this does not match up with my mental characteristics/the gender I feel, ergo I experience dysphoria and therefore decided to start transitioning. If you wanted to really stretch the bull you could say "Well she had a conversation with noted TERF Meghan Murphy" but said convo also included ContraPoints and was part of a look at both sides of said debate. People saying that Chris Ray Gun turned her is...yeah, just embarrassing, lol. Especially if it's said by anyone who identifies as feminist - that's top banter right there if you're purposefully removing a woman's agency. quote:lol what is the hypothetical middle ground with the anti-fem/MRA/MGTOW people Engagement and debate, whether it ends up reaching some hypothetical middle ground or not, is important because they have a lot of followers that could potentially be reached? In YouTube terms (for the sake of nothing else 'cause that's my homecourt), we're talking about accounts with six-figure subs. Some are closing in on a million...to think that all of these people who follow said accounts are a hivemind who think the same and are perfectly in line with the belief system of, let's say a Sargon or a Stefan Molyneux or someone on the extremes like that is fallacious. There are many different reasons why someone subscribes to these folk...by engaging them, there's a possibility you can change some minds. To take the Steve Shives approach and say that doing so is just a waste of time...personally, I don't see how that does anything but doom the Left, my poor Left to irrelevancy (which is kind of where I come from in this whole thing, really. I'm frustrated with what we're doing because we seem to be barely doing anything but losing). Not that a debate between Steve Shives and Sargon, for example, would be anything but a complete shitshow with slanging matches on both sides, absolutely no achievement, and both sides just claiming total victory in the end. So best to look for those where ground can potentially be gained. Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 17:05
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Kim Justice posted:Yeah she's not actually a TERF at all, don't worry about it. The crux of that whole thing seemed to come when she lambasted the belief that not wanting to have sex with a trans person is transphobic and misrepresented a joke Zinnia Jones tweet to do it...which is a shame, but hey it's not like you could just pull up a Riley Dennis video or something where she says the same thing (people naturally have preferences that can't just be changed). Also talking about biology with the whole two genders thing, which is fair enough because biology, chromosomes etc. are just one aspect of what makes someone who they are. As a trans woman some Youtube comment type trying to test me by saying I'm biologically male isn't exactly something that ruins my day 'cause it's like well...yeah - what's your point? Don't mean much in the other areas like psychology and brain make-up and poo poo - my sex/physical characteristics are male, this does not match up with my mental characteristics/the gender I feel, ergo I experience dysphoria and therefore decided to start transitioning. Phew. I've always been puzzled by people saying that not wanting to have sex with a trans person is transphobic. Most of my trans friends are cool (although saddened) by that aspect. They just wish that people would be accepting enough for them to not fear physical danger or ridicule. People should have sex with whoever they want. Yeah there are biological facts involved but that doesn't mean that people should be bigoted but they should be accepting and acknowledging trans people. Btw it's really cool to see people like you and Contra figure out who you are and talk so honestly about it. Back in the day I used to watch Colin Mochrie's child's reviews on TGWTG and wanted to know if they we're still doing videos. To my surprise I found an interview with her and Colin talking about her transitioning. It's just nice to know that we live in a world where so many people just 5 years ago would have been completely lost can stumble upon a youtube video about gaming history or watch "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" and be comforted by the fact that there are people like them out there 
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Oct 6, 2017 17:49
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as a middle ground, i agree to being only half-murdered, that seems fair
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Oct 6, 2017 18:39
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Here's hoping that people see Blade runner 2049 this weekend so we can drown this discussion with a different discussion about dummies who go into this film thinking it's an action movie. Saw it last night. It was very good in that Denis Villeneuve way. He was pretty much the perfect director to capture Ridley Scott's style without Scott's madman tendencies.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:58
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AriadneThread posted:as a middle ground, i agree to being only half-murdered, that seems fair Wut?
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Oct 6, 2017 19:15
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I belive they were talking about the hypothetical middle ground between anti-fem/MRA/MGTOW people and feminists.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:26
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What does that have to do with murder, though?
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Oct 6, 2017 19:42
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^^the core TERF outlook is 'trans women are just men trying to rape people' and that's steeped in lots of 'so self defense against them is ok' and 'trans panic' stuff. Shockingly, the bigots eager to make the other seem less than human tend use language and rhetoric that makes it seem ok to kill them. Laci's been tweeting tons of TERFy poo poo, she's absolutely a TERF. Her whole thing for the past grip has been "MAYBE THOSE ICKY TRANS PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE LITERALLY RAPING PEOPLE???"
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Oct 6, 2017 19:42
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TheMaestroso posted:This is cool and not a lovely back-and-forth about some idiot I don't care about, so I'm bumping it to this page. It's worth mentioning that the interviewer compared her to Ebert in a complimentary fashion that seemed perfectly appropriate and rational in context. Wherever she's going, she's getting there. "Video essayist" is a gig that's really actually kind of sort of happening. I'm excited for (this particular aspect of) the future.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:47
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sexpig by night posted:^^the core TERF outlook is 'trans women are just men trying to rape people' and that's steeped in lots of 'so self defense against them is ok' and 'trans panic' stuff. Shockingly, the bigots eager to make the other seem less than human tend use language and rhetoric that makes it seem ok to kill them. So I just looked over the last 3 months of her Twitter and didn't see anything of the sort in threads where she talked about trans people. When I found a thread she created where she was talking about trans people, it was going in against the Trump Military ban and retweeting Laverne Cox, which doesn't seem to jive with saying that all trans folk are rapists or whatever she's apparently been saying according to you (examples would be nice ta).
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Oct 6, 2017 20:04
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Kim Justice posted:When I found a thread she created where she was talking about trans people, it was going in against the Trump Military ban and retweeting Laverne Cox, which doesn't seem to jive with saying that all trans folk are rapists or whatever she's apparently been saying according to you (examples would be nice ta). The entire shtick with Zinnia Jones. "To demonstrate how out of control the trans community has become, Green states that transgender YouTubers are forcing people to sleep with trans women. In one case, without referencing her name, Green states that trans rights blogger Zinnia Jones advocates “rubbing her dick and balls all over a straight guy’s face until he’s into it,” which she calls “gross or creepy.” And to make her point, Green pulled a tweet from Jones’ Twitter account, censoring out her name and implying that Jones is telling all trans women to force cisgender people into having sex." "Except there’s one problem: Jones never actually said that. The tweet Green cites was taken out of context from Jones’ page. In reality, Jones was providing a witty response to a transphobic user’s tweet." "'I don’t see a problem with telling straight guys who are exclusionary of trans women partners that they should try to work through that,' Jones originally stated. In response, user Count Slambo implied that having sex with a trans woman is gross, asking Jones “How does THAT work exactly?” So Jones replied with a comeback." "'Have your trans girlfriend rub her balls and dick on your face until you realize how awesome it is? I don’t know dude,' she said. Jones was never telling trans people to force themselves onto cis people. She was just defending herself from an internet troll."
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Oct 6, 2017 20:41
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So uh, you still want to defend Transphobe Laci Green? I as a Trans person would love nothing more than for you to explain to my poor broke brain why I'm wrong in thinking that Laci Green is a transphobe.
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Oct 6, 2017 21:51
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Seriously, like it's a pity she used to be a good speaker for sex positivity and whatever, but she's pretty firmly gone down the shitter for those juicy net-nazi clicks now.
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Oct 6, 2017 21:58
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So she misread a tweet by Zinnia "I like to post photos on my public Twitter of me shoving dildos up my arse" Jones. Ok then. She did not say that this was something all trans people wished to do, although she did argue against people saying that hey, you can just change your preferences and therefore not be transphobic because you don't want to date trans people! (and quite right too). This is the video in question. In which, at the end, she says that she is against transphobia, speaks out against TERFs and what they do and says, outright, that trans women are women (and by extension, trans men are men) because biology and what's between your legs is not the be-all and end-all of woman/manhood. Yep, sounds real TERFy to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPdVDjQ9BE8 There are many TERFs out there who represent a great threat to trans people and actively try to doxx them, force them out of work and disrupt trans-related public events. They are dangerous, and they are the scum of the earth. Laci Green is quite clearly not one of them. Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 22:21
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Laci Green made a mistake in not understanding the sarcasm of that tweet, but what Zinnia had said before that in complete sincerity is still really awful. The idea that people can and should “work through” a lack of sexual attraction to a specific group is the same kind of bullshit that you’d hear at a gay conversion camp, which is exactly the point Laci was trying to make.
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Oct 6, 2017 22:30
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Kim Justice posted:"I like to post photos on my public Twitter of me shoving dildos up my arse" Is there some kind of issue with this
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Oct 6, 2017 22:41
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sorry for any confusion, i was just riffing off this post:A Gnarlacious Bro posted:lol what is the hypothetical middle ground with the anti-fem/MRA/MGTOW people I'm not really invested in whether this person is or isn't a terf to be honest, though i can understand not wanting someone to be 'falsely accused' finding out someone is a terf has completely killed any ability for me to try and divorce creator from creation about that when trying to enjoy their work. like, checking out the twitter of the lady behind the sita sings the blues and related stuff and finding out she was full-on terf was pretty heartbreaking
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Oct 6, 2017 22:42
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