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EagerSleeper posted:I was editing my previous post, but found that I was having a lot of ideas come to mind that were going beyond the original post, so I'll just write them here. I wonder if the themes of having to determine the truth for yourself behind the stories that people made up will be what the ending is as well. Like Ange will have a choice to make. Choose to believe the romantic story that Battler eventually discovered the truth behind everything, probably even making up with Yasu, and had that final comfort before the bomb blast occurred. (There in lies even the glimmer of magical whimsy, that maybe Battler is still alive somewhere on Rokkenjima). Or accept the stories told by other people that he most definitely died, and probably with no idea why. You know, random fairy tale thought this brought to mind: if the old military base had 900 tons of explosives just laying around, is it also possible it had a bunch of shelf-stable rations sitting in a closet somewhere? Enough that Battler could feed himself for twelve years after getting left behind on the island.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:47
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Yeah, but having one or two good to okay facets doesn't undo, neutralize, or otherwise ameliorate being a huge piece of poo poo. This rosy portrait is a nice fantasy, but... Choosing what you believe can mean choosing to overlook ugly truths, and the world is too full of that already. Again, this is personal to me because this portrayal of Kinzo vaguely reminds me of my Grandpa who was a super lovely dad and romantic partner but was always a loving and understanding grandpa to me, to the point that I really had to figure out the family history through other channels because he didn't show that side of himself to me. My feelings for him are complicated? I love him but he has the potential to be really nasty and I'm not sure if he's sorry about it.
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Oct 6, 2017 01:57
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 BGM: HANE  "That's right. It wasn't one of the choices, but green beans would have worked too."The names all followed the alphabet. Apple was 'a'. Butternut squash was 'b'. Cabbage was 'c'. It kept going with 'd', 'e', and 'f'. So, after 'f' comes 'g'. That's why the answer had to be something that started with 'g'.  "Thanks, Aunt Eva. I got it right thanks to your hint!" "*giggle*. You solved it by yourself, Ange-chan. Incredible." "Yep, nice work! Now, here's your medal for gettin' it right...!"Hideyoshi took out a gold-colored medal and placed it on my palm. It felt heavy in my hand. Yeah, this is what victory feels like. I'd better keep it up!  For a glimpse into the localization process, here's Hideyoshi's puzzle in Japanese:  "One day, sweet chestnuts (amakuri) came down the river. The next day, iyokan came. The next day, a melon (uri). The next day, edamame. The next day, okra. The next day, a persimmon (kaki). What came down the river the day after that?" A. Cabbage B. Lettuce C. Corn (toumorokoshi) It follows the same pattern as the English version, based on the first kana - the Japanese kana order goes a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, etc, so cabbage (kyabetsu, which starts with a キ) is correct - Eva also suggests cucumber (kyuuri, same deal) as an alternative.  BGM: Doorway of Summer "Then maybe I should give Ange-chan a puzzle." "Huh? You will?" "Sure. A quiz for the princess from her attendant♪ I've thought of a fun one, so please, have a go at it!"Aunt Eva smiled brightly. I want to get as many medals as possible, so of course, I want as many chances as I can get. "Okay, I'll have a go at it." "*giggle*. That's the spirit. Okay, here it comes."  "Yeah. You said you like traveling overseas a lot." "That's right. So this will be a puzzle about traveling. There was a traveler in a certain place." "A traveler?" "First, the traveler walked five kilometers north." "...Should I write this down on a piece of paper?" "Don't worry. The puzzle isn't that hard, so listening to it will be enough. The traveler first walked five kilometers north. Then, he walked five kilometers to the east. Then, he walked five kilometers to the south." "...Five kilometers north. Five kilometers east. Five kilometers south. You mean, like a blocky 'n'?" "That's right! You work it out, and he's in a spot five kilometers to the east of where he started."  "Wahaha, there's no way! His compass must've gone crazy." "Of course it didn't! Eheheheheh, do you know, Ange-chan?" "It wasn't because of his compass? Is this a play on words?" "No, this is a real quiz. For a hint, why don't you try thinking about a globe?" A very hot place A very cold place Such a place couldn't exist Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Oct 6, 2017 13:25
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I swear that this is the easiest one. Some actual thought may be required starting this weekend.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:27
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B - Very Cold  I used to whip out a variation of this riddle all the time as a kid
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Oct 6, 2017 13:29
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Ah! This one's a classic. B - a very cold place - the South Pole.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:30
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ArashiKurobara posted:Ah! This one's a classic. B - a very cold place - the South Pole. I agree it seems like it should be B
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Oct 6, 2017 14:25
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I can't come up with anything stupid to say immediately, so just gonna vote B - a very cold place.
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Oct 6, 2017 14:50
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The version I heard has the guy seeing a bear, and you have to guess the colour. Which is white, as the solution works at either pole.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:09
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im stupid. based on the goons' answer, I assume that the person skidded on ice and landed on the same place?
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Oct 6, 2017 15:09
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Tired Moritz posted:im stupid. based on the goons' answer, I assume that the person skidded on ice and landed on the same place? They started at the south pole. North is any direction away from it, and then south is back towards it, no matter how much you move east or west.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:29
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Ah, I get it. Kind of like how there's no up or down in outer space. A.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:30
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B - It also works at (read: near) the north pole, if the initial position is 5 kilometers south of a point where 5 kilometers east is a complete loop around the globe.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:41
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A; I always like the variation asking what color is the bear since that's a bit more lateral. It's nice seeing them act like a family. usually when reading some of my books you get this kind of behavior at the front-end, then the backstabbing and skeletons in the closet as the story progresses.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:43
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B I gotta say, I am feeling kinda disappointed by how easy these riddles are so far considering... well, the entire story up until now. Then again, these ARE designed for a six-year-old.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:43
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ZiegeDame posted:B - It also works at (read: near) the north pole, if the initial position is 5 kilometers south of a point where 5 kilometers east is a complete loop around the globe. Or at the infinite series of points 5km south of successively halfway to the pole from the northern point (so that you circle the pole twice, three times, etc.) Although I'm voting for A: He hasn't changed position because he never changes position. He is doomed to wander and never reach a destination. Always searching, never finding, stuck in a limbo of hopelessness. The man is in hell. Kangra fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 15:54
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B - A very cold place, for reasons everyone else has already said. Though I will add that A is about as wrong as you can get, considering that for similar reasons, you will be closer to exactly 5 km east of where you started if you start at the equator than if you start anywhere else on Earth.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:59
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Kangra posted:Although I'm voting for A: He hasn't changed position because he never changes position. He is doomed to wander and never reach a destination. Always searching, never finding, stuck in a limbo of hopelessness. The man is in hell. 6 years old, Kangra, six year old! This is a happy time! But yeah- B- a cold place because of the poles. I was stumped the first time, but I wasn't thinking globally; Hide's hint about the compass is really, really big that way.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:07
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Kangra posted:Although I'm voting for A: He hasn't changed position because he never changes position. He is doomed to wander and never reach a destination. Always searching, never finding, stuck in a limbo of hopelessness. The man is in hell. But this is Umineko so the man must be a betrayer of some sort, so the answer is still B. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 16:14
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Or endlessly lost in purgatory, like Erika!
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Oct 6, 2017 16:41
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Who?
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Oct 6, 2017 16:46
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ZiegeDame posted:But this is Umineko so the man must be a betrayer of some sort, so the answer is still B. Gohda betrayed nobody! Probably! Per information available as of yet!
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Oct 6, 2017 17:09
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^^^Agreed. It's a cold place. I don't know if it's possible for it to be on either pole, but it's a pole indeed.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:32
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 Good old Snufkin
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Oct 6, 2017 18:40
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Looks like we're still on the standard riddles. B.Doc Hawkins posted:Gohda betrayed nobody! Probably! Per information available as of yet! He betrayed the rose, the worst betrayal of all.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:49
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Doc Hawkins posted:Gohda betrayed nobody! Probably! Per information available as of yet! Gohda betrayed his fellow workers by sucking up to the boss at the expense of his proletarian comrades. 
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Oct 6, 2017 18:57
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Cyouni posted:Remember also that Maria's diary is also being interpreted through Ange's lens - a lens which we know was already tailored to believe the worst of Rosa. I believe we can be fairly certain Rosa's parenting was about as bad as portrayed, because 1. Maria's behavior itself is largely the direct result of that poor parenting and 2. Yasu was both older and quite close with Maria (compared with, say, Ange), so what we see in her bottle stories is going to be fairly accurate. Also, while it's not from a Yasu-written story, I think that we can assume the "Beato teaches Maria to kill Rosa in her mind" stuff from Episode 4 reflects something that actually happened when Maria finally couldn't maintain her "white magic" after Rosa destroyed Sakutarou. The same goes for the rest of the Ushiromiya family's behavior towards one another. I think what we see in Episode 8 sorta represents what could have been a possible outcome if you took all these people and somehow excised out the toxic history. For example, it's been mentioned explicitly how Eva isn't as mean outside of these conferences, so there's a good chance that Eva outside of Rokkenjima is similar to her Episode 8 persona. I also think that it's quite possible Kinzo behaved in a friendly way at times, though there are some things that make me doubt that it was a common occurrence. I consider Kinzo the least sympathetic figure mostly because I feel like his personal trauma isn't enough to really "justify" the level of his crimes. Even Rosa, despite being guilty of literal child abuse/neglect, is behaving in a way that is fairly realistic/expected for someone with her background and experience (I would argue that Rosa has probably had the worst life of any of the Ushiromiyas). I would consider Kinzo's adultery and neglect of his non-Beato children to be similar to Rosa's crimes, in that they're at least somewhat understandable (though still deeply immoral) given his experiences, but raping your child isn't really something most people in that same situation would be capable of. Second least sympathetic is probably Rudolph, though that's largely because we never really get much direct info on the sort of trauma he experienced as part of the Ushiromiya family. We just know he was sorta lazy/playful or whatever and then went on to do some sort of shady criminal stuff when he got older (ignoring the Rokkenjima murders). I don't mention Kyrie here because we don't really know enough about her particular upbringing. It's not clear whether her Yakuza upbringing actually required her to "get her hands dirty" in a way that might help psychologically enable her to commit her later crimes. She's probably the worst person of the cast in terms of her morality at the time of the Rokkenjima massacre, but I'm not sure how to judge her in terms of "how would the average person react given her same experiences/background." PetraCore posted:The versions of him in Yasu's bottles are written by someone who knew him, yes, but this is after they've learned the worst of him, and frankly it doesn't sound like Shannon or Kanon were very close to Kinzo when he was alive, but that Kinzo would do things like teach Kanon to use guns sometimes, etc. I feel like the mixed portrayal of Kinzo (both as a terrible person but also in a sympathetic manner) is largely due to the conflict between Yasu's knowledge of his actions and her likely friendly interactions with him when he taught Kanon how to shoot and stuff. I have little doubt that Kinzo probably treated Kanon similar to the way he treats Lion in Episode 7, so there's this mismatch where "I know this guy did terrible things, but he's also been really nice to me." Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 19:12
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Ytlaya posted:I feel like the mixed portrayal of Kinzo (both as a terrible person but also in a sympathetic manner) is largely due to the conflict between Yasu's knowledge of his actions and her likely friendly interactions with him when he taught Kanon how to shoot and stuff. I have little doubt that Kinzo probably treated Kanon similar to the way he treats Lion in Episode 7, so there's this mismatch where "I know this guy did terrible things, but he's also been really nice to me."
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Oct 6, 2017 20:04
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Kinzo: Not literally a dragon
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Oct 6, 2017 20:16
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ZiegeDame posted:Kinzo: Not literally a dragon I dunno. Did you see that mountain of gold?
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Oct 6, 2017 20:46
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I was originally thinking it would work on a very small planet, but B. A very cold place works too.
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Oct 6, 2017 23:15
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Presumably a very small planet would be a very cold place
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Oct 7, 2017 00:25
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A planet that small would almost certainly be unable to clear out its own orbit, thus failing to meet the third and final requirement for planethood, landing it firmly in the category of dwarf planet. Actually, at that small, I its own gravity couldn't force it into a spherical shape, and would in truth just be a small asteroid. Of course, now I've gone and introduced astronomical semantics into a riddle that a child could solve.
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Oct 7, 2017 00:31
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Clearly this is why I don't make the puzzles.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:13
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ZiegeDame posted:Gohda betrayed his fellow workers by sucking up to the boss at the expense of his proletarian comrades. Gohda actually championed the rights of the working class by participating in a strike against his former job's bourgeois owners. He's clearly just showing his appreciation the Ushiromiyas for somehow being a better employer than the other folks. Godha may not be the protagonist of the story, but he is most definitely the hero. EagerSleeper fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 03:15
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 BGM: Doorway of Summer "Perfect! Ange-chan, you must really be a genius, to get something like that at your age." "If you start at the south pole, then after you go north, going east just draws a circle around the south pole. So, anytime you go south again, that just takes you right back to the south pole." "I tried to make it an extra hard puzzle, but Ange-chan was just too good." "Congrats! Here's another medal for ya."I got a heavy, gold-colored medal. All right, I did it...! Aunt Eva and I held up our fists in celebration. "Okay, that's all for our puzzles! Go ask one of the others to give you one!" "Okay! Thank you, Uncle Hideyoshi...!" "Your aunt's really clever...! With the two of you together, you'll be gettin' medals right and left!" "Yep, that's right!" "Yeah. Let's do our best together, Aunt Eva." Probably the easiest one of the whole set.  BGM: Apathy   "Eva..."Eva hung her head. A single tear sparkled in her eye...  "Her reaction was only natural, considering how she felt. But I... wasn't able to see past it and accept her feelings..." "It can't be helped. You're as human as anyone else. Humans tend to be more fragile than you'd think." "Even so, it was my fault...! After all, I already had the experience of bringing up a child, right?! I should have become her mother. And yet, I let sadness overwhelm me, and I didn't do it at all..." "It can't be helped, I tell you...! Don't think you were the only one at fault...! You shouldn't blame yourself so much!"By now, Eva was unable to hold back her sobs... Large tears dripped down her cheeks as she stared at the ground and shook... "What a sin I've committed... My sadness was no greater than hers...! And yet, I decided that I was suffering the most, so I didn't accept her feelings... I'm a failure of a mother... I wasn't able... to become a mother for her..." "Kyrie-san..."Kyrie and Rudolf were standing behind Eva now.  "I know the lengths you went to... to keep the truth from Ange." "...You held out well, Aneki. Guess that daughter of ours really has been a pain, clueless about how much you suffered."After the accident on Rokkenjima... Eva, the only one who left Rokkenjima alive, adopted Ange, the girl who had been absent and survived. While they would eventually develop a sad and mutually painful relationship, it wasn't like that at first. Eva tried to show affection for Ange, her last remaining blood relative. She tried to become Ange's new mother. Even as she fought back the sadness she herself felt. However, Ange wasn't able to accept that kindness. She lashed out at Eva, the only one who had returned alive, for stealing her parents away from her. Eva, understanding the wounds that this little six-year-old girl bore, withstood these attacks. She grit her teeth and poured all of her affection onto Ange... affection that went ignored. However, the wounds Eva herself bore were also extremely deep. She was never rewarded for her sad efforts, and the future in front of her grew dark.   "But still, that was just for my own satisfaction. Ange-chan never felt any of it..." "Ange was the one who couldn't accept it. It isn't your fault." "But who could possibly ask that of Ange-chan when she was just six years old...?! I should've held out much, much longer, until she could understand my feelings...!" "Eva nee-san. I want you to believe one thing." "..." "We... don't blame you in the slightest." "...Kyrie-san..." "Thank you so much... for suffering so long for Ange's sake... If that kid has a human heart, then I'm sure she'll recognize the affection you showed her someday." "Thank you, Aneki. We'll always be grateful..." "...Isn't that wonderful, Eva... All of your efforts... have been witnessed..." "Uuuuu... uwaaaaaaaahhhh..." BGM: Stuffed Toy  "Hohohoho. And I, Kumasawa, have a ve~ry tricky puzzle for you." "It doesn't matter how hard it is. I'm not alone. I'll solve it with Aunt Eva!"Gohda and Kumasawa offered to challenge me. I'll have to go up against everyone in the end, so it doesn't matter who comes next. I waved at Aunt Eva to hurry up, and she ran toward me.  "Okay... Gohda-san." "Very well, as you wish. Here is my puzzle." "Hohohohoho. I'll warn you, it's a toughie." "I'll still solve it. I've gotten the knack of it." "You'd better not underestimate Ange-chan. Right?!" "Right!" "My, my. Well then, being the humble chef that I am, here is a puzzle about food and the kitchen." "We'll fight together this time. If you don't get it, just ask me to lend a hand. I'll give you a hint." "...If I get a hint, does that mean I don't get a medal?" "It won't affect your medals at all, so feel free to ask away!" Eva's Hint The stew The bread The wine The ice cream Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Oct 7, 2017 14:15
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Not really sure what I should be looking for here. First thought is the ice cream since she arrived late, so it could have melted down?
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Oct 7, 2017 14:30
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ice cream because it melted. D I kinda want to see what kind of hints Eva has though...
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Oct 7, 2017 14:36
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I'll put up the hints after we're done with the quiz tournament.
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Oct 7, 2017 14:44
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Well technically only the stew and the ice cream are making claims they could be lying about and the ice cream being melted makes more sense. If "freshly made" means they were made today, white wine takes much longer than a day to make so that doesn't seem right. Maybe it just finished today? Fresh bread would probably take more than an afternoon to go hard too, but depends on the bread I guess. Well regardless I'll go with C, wine just to avoid the obvious melted ice cream thing.
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Oct 7, 2017 15:02
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