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Captain Oblivious posted:How exactly does Confederation work? I'm wanting to confederate Har Ganeth as Malekith, but have no real ideas on how to go about it other than being bigger than them and having high relations. Should I throw some payments their way to expedite relations? If it's anything like the first game, they need to be involved in wars with opponents who are much more powerful than them as well. So close allies, high relations, plenty of existing treaties, and the confederation target has to be in a fight and on the ropes.
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Oct 7, 2017 06:59
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NeurosisHead posted:If it's anything like the first game, they need to be involved in wars with opponents who are much more powerful than them as well. So close allies, high relations, plenty of existing treaties, and the confederation target has to be in a fight and on the ropes. On top of this, check their traits in the diplomacy screen. Some may make the effort required greater when you can just sort of punch them in the snoot far easier.
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Oct 7, 2017 07:41
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On my end, I fell behind on the ritual a fuckton, due to picking a fight with basically the entire southlands, and wasting a lot of time smacking around the two undead factions. The two elf factions both were only a little nudge away from starting the final rituals, and tho I could have just turtled and won the final battle poo poo, that would also be stupidly shameful and dumb and essentially have been a loss if it wasn't for the pity out. I begun to set off at only a little bit before the last minute, which meant that as my invasion was only setting off from Khemri when the dark elves begun their last ritual. I wanted to get to Naggarond via the High Elf territories, and Queek arrived first. He got two buffs on the way there, which made his stormvermin were more hardcore than white lions., which meant that he pretty effortlessly obliterated two elf stacks and smashed three cities. The elves, maybe out of desperation, maybe out of elven arrogance, but also maybe because AI dumb, begun their ritual anyways, which meant my good armies got sort of roped into dealing with that, so my Naggarond expedition was instead headed by two level eight lords, with armies of clanrats and skavenslaves, with around four good units each. They ended up having to fight Alastar and a stack of elite assholes, which hurt, and burned down a high elf city on the way there. The high elves military was beaten up badly enough, that the chaos armies and intervention forces went through a tear, burning down all their ritual cities and their capital. I'd planned ahead a bit, and saw that I was on good terms enough with some dark elves south of Malekith that I could get military access and an alliance, which allowed those two rat forces a place to land safely and get some replenishment on their way to battle. The bad news was, that these two chump stacks could only reach Naggarond, rather than a perhaps more vulnerable city. Fortunately, the area wasn't that intensely defended since intervention forces had peeled away the bigger armies, and ol' Darth Burnie was heading to Ulthuan. The army garrisoned there, which was about 2/3 a stack of black guards, darkshards, and dragons, ran out to fight my armies, which I had rushed up in march stance, so that wound up being a bit of a messy fight. The garrison at Naggarond sallied out as well, which was another messy fight where my reinforcements wound up coming in the wrong side of the map, and the AI decided to split its forces, and I decided to try to see how awful not pausing or using slowmo would be. I wound up being saved due to the various magic reserve buffs I'd accumulated (two knowledgeable characters, and the black pyramid) to spam enough plague and vermintide spells to endure that mess. Now, I've taken Naggarond, preventing the ritual with three turns left. A dark elf army marched up the next turn, so I've now got to fight that. And next I've got to probably take a stab at the lizards, while also ensuring neither elves can restart their rituals for the long rear end time its going to take me to prepare for mine. I've been accumulating as much wealth as possible to that ends; I plan to raise some extra forces to defend my lands during the ritual proceedings, and/or just let the rest of my rat realm burn to poo poo while I ensure the important sites are protected. so, yeah, in my own experience, the vortex campaign mechanics have resulted in me having to move outside my comfort zone, fight difficult battles, juggle multiple problems, and have fun doing it. So I've actually enjoyed the vortex campaign and its mechanics quite a lot. I do really think they should have just kicked people in the face if they played on anything higher than normal and done a "no you just fuckin lost" thing if they failed to stop the opposing rituals, since that added pressure adds a lot to the whole experience. People would have, of course, complained a lot, and modded it out, because players are baby scum. The complaints about the other Good But Hated TW Mechanic, Realm Divide, at least had some substance due to several parts of it completely blindsiding the player, but the ritual stuff is telegraphed in an inordinately incessant manner, so the easy out ends up being a disservice. Even the most complained about thing, the spawning armies during your own ritual, is something that is only triggered by you, is telegraphed far in advance, and is something that is entirely within your power to prepare for. You can lose settlements despite preparation, but that just means you need to plan for that, as well. Losing is fun, and memorable.
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Oct 7, 2017 08:31
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Helion posted:Absolutely. Most people do not play strategy games so they can lose. I think that's lovely, but that's how it is. Didn't XCOM 2 have pretty much the same mechanic? There's a scary timer but they give you an easy way out out if you run out of time
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Oct 7, 2017 08:41
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Flavahbeast posted:Didn't XCOM 2 have pretty much the same mechanic? There's a scary timer but they give you an easy way out out if you run out of time There is a timer mechanic, but there isn't really an easy out on the level of the vortex battle. Although with the expansion they added some stuff that absolutely trivializes it and lets you play forever without losing.
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Oct 7, 2017 08:55
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Tiler Kiwi posted:so, yeah, in my own experience, the vortex campaign mechanics have resulted in me having to move outside my comfort zone, fight difficult battles, juggle multiple problems, and have fun doing it. So I've actually enjoyed the vortex campaign and its mechanics quite a lot. I do really think they should have just kicked people in the face if they played on anything higher than normal and done a "no you just fuckin lost" thing if they failed to stop the opposing rituals, since that added pressure adds a lot to the whole experience. People would have, of course, complained a lot, and modded it out, because players are baby scum. The complaints about the other Good But Hated TW Mechanic, Realm Divide, at least had some substance due to several parts of it completely blindsiding the player, but the ritual stuff is telegraphed in an inordinately incessant manner, so the easy out ends up being a disservice. Even the most complained about thing, the spawning armies during your own ritual, is something that is only triggered by you, is telegraphed far in advance, and is something that is entirely within your power to prepare for. You can lose settlements despite preparation, but that just means you need to plan for that, as well. Losing is fun, and memorable. I really like the idea of the last battle being an emergency out to not lose everything if you've hosed up or fallen behind and I don't think it should be removed at all, but I'd like it to be tweaked to be substantially harder instead of essentially a cakewalk. It should only knock the loser out of the vortex race for a certain amount of time(10-15 turns before they can restart, maybe?) so it acts like a brief reprieve from loss to give you time to get your rear end in gear to complete your own/harass theirs, and make it so every time the same faction retries the final battle they get increasing, stacking bonuses in it to keep the pressure mounting.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:24
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Thats probably more fair than my idea, of having the game signing into your social media and broadcasting your failure to the world.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:25
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Remind me: Cavalry count as 'large' right when it comes to stuff like Anti-Large and Spears?
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Oct 7, 2017 09:26
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Sedisp posted:Anyone else got opinions on this? Sounds like fun but like...its radious. Radious solves a lot of the AI problems with just more money. If you can't find a more money mod, or like 5, that do the same thing as radious, just try it out. There will be a lot more armies, a lot more threats, and a lot more fighting. For warhammer 1, I had to have better trade, higher background income, and better economy buildings to get the same kinda fighting.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:26
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Pierson posted:Remind me: Cavalry count as 'large' right when it comes to stuff like Anti-Large and Spears? Most cav counts as large. So do most large looking monstrous units. There were very few exceptions, like some dog units were large, others were not. Goblin spider riders are neither large nor infantry. I think beastmen had a few big looking units that were not large. But if they are riding something or a big looking unit with low model count, they are probably large.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:30
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Third World Reggin posted:Most cav counts as large. So do most large looking monstrous units. Don't forget that new feature they added: the icon to the left of the model count in the unit card now shows if a unit counts as a large unit.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:31
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Pierson posted:Remind me: Cavalry count as 'large' right when it comes to stuff like Anti-Large and Spears? Basically the rule is anything bigger than a human is "large" for the purposes of anti-large. There might be some weird edge cases where it doesn't quite work (either something you'd think should be large that isn't, or something that you wouldn't think would be large but is), but that's a general rule of thumb to go by.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:41
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Mukip posted:Swordmasters are probably the best melee infantry unit in the game if they are able to do their job of blendering infantry without interruption. Dark magic is good, but you also get access to fire magic and shadow magic, and fire magic is way better now that you can turn their wind spell. Your first dark magic spell is power of darkness which you can use on your self or an ally to get more power at the cost of their health, but you get 3 charges of this. Thankfully you get hydras with regeneration. Chillwind is your wind spell, it gives -speed to the enemy, and its damage isn't that great. It shoots a bit farther than the graphic shows. Overcharging adds a negative to reload skill, meh. Word of pain is a debuff for melee attack and range accuracy, largely useless since I rarely want to cast it on anything. Overcharging it also adds melee defense which makes it a bit better but most of your kills are gonna be from things not in melee. Bladewind is your vortex spell that is pretty much amazing. The damage is way better than chillwind for about double the cost. Overcasting just extends the duration. Doombolt summons a homing attack from the sky and is good against single units. I haven't really seen it do a whole lot of damage even for the cost. Anything I could use this spell on I'd probably be shooting with darkshards and killing it faster. As far as homing goes, I swear I've seen it miss a few times or it did really poo poo damage. Soul stealer is an aoe life steal attack that goes back to the caster. You can not overcharge with it. If your caster needs health you probably hosed up somewhere. The damage isn't good for its cost unless the enemy is tightly packed. The passive is -15 armor for 18 seconds map wide after casting a spell which is great. But with being able to turn wind spells, it feels like shadow is stronger with more useful debuffs and fire is a lot stronger. Third World Reagan fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 09:44
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toasterwarrior posted:Don't forget that new feature they added: the icon to the left of the model count in the unit card now shows if a unit counts as a large unit. I've missed this and now I gotta go find it.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:45
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Thanks! I've just been playing quick battles and getting blasted by random spells with no idea what's going on, sine I'm preoccupied with other aspects of the game. Reminds me how complicated this game is when you aren't already familiar with it like I was with TW1. HElves bring a really fun napalm army in quick battles against Skaven. You can bring Tyrion with Sunfang, a high mage with the phoenix bombing run spell and then one or two flamespyre phoenixes to further douse the ratmen in fiery death.
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Oct 7, 2017 09:56
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Captain Oblivious posted:How exactly does Confederation work? I'm wanting to confederate Har Ganeth as Malekith, but have no real ideas on how to go about it other than being bigger than them and having high relations. Should I throw some payments their way to expedite relations? Confederating works by comparing your power level with their power level, and if you are much higher and have good relations they will want to join you to gain the benefits. You might also have to throw some serious cash their way if your levels are not that far apart (I'm currently having to throw 140K at factions to get them to confederate. Thankfully, since I'm playing as Mazdimoney, I'm rolling in cash). Here's the kicker. When they check their power level they add the level of their allies too. If one of those allies is you, you can never be more powerful then them. So you should never ally with anyone you want to confederate. And if you are allied with them, you might have to take the relations hit and break alliance. At least it won't affect your reputation unless you declare war on them as well.
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Oct 7, 2017 10:08
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I'd be on board with ditching the last chance battle, except for one thing: after the final Skaven ritual failed in my game, they got to try again. Fair enough, except the ritual only had one city listed, and it was already a ruin. It stayed ruined for the entire 20 turns and the ritual completed successfully. In that case I was fine with having a last chance battle, because that would have been a bullshit way to lose. I'm assuming it was a bug, but still.
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Oct 7, 2017 10:10
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Flavahbeast posted:Didn't XCOM 2 have pretty much the same mechanic? There's a scary timer but they give you an easy way out out if you run out of time Not quite. The Avatar Progress bar increases over time and you can take actions and missions to reduce it. If the bar fills up all the way you have 24 in-game hours to take an action or mission to reduce it, and that will give you a stay of execution. However, the game will not provide you with a mission and if you haven't unlocked an area with a mission, it's game over.
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Oct 7, 2017 10:15
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Wafflecopper posted:I'd be on board with ditching the last chance battle, except for one thing: after the final Skaven ritual failed in my game, they got to try again. Fair enough, except the ritual only had one city listed, and it was already a ruin. It stayed ruined for the entire 20 turns and the ritual completed successfully. In that case I was fine with having a last chance battle, because that would have been a bullshit way to lose. I'm assuming it was a bug, but still. sort of an obvious question but... are you sure it was a ruin? if so, yeah, dumb bug i guess
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Oct 7, 2017 10:18
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Tiler Kiwi posted:sort of an obvious question but... are you sure it was a ruin? Yup, even hired an intervention which spawned right there to remove fog of war. It was 100% a ruin. And it was the only ritual city. None others listed when I moused over the icon and no glowy poo poo from any other cities
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Oct 7, 2017 10:37
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I don't know if it's hardcoded or whatever but despite my initial impression that armies cannot Underway between Karak Zorn and Kroq-gar's starting province turning out to be wrong, both the Dwarfs and the Greenskins there seem to not actually want to do just that. Which is good; I'm already gaming the Elves in the south-eastern corner islands by avoiding all contact with them (because you know those assholes will launch an invasion the moment you say hello), and since you can't even get to their cities without getting wrecked by Skaven naval autoresolve, opening up the entire loving coast to naval incursions would be the worst loving thing on VH.
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Oct 7, 2017 10:53
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Wafflecopper posted:Yup, even hired an intervention which spawned right there to remove fog of war. It was 100% a ruin. And it was the only ritual city. None others listed when I moused over the icon and no glowy poo poo from any other cities This sounds like a case of intervention armies not knowing how to uncover skaven cities rather than it being a genuine ruin.
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Oct 7, 2017 10:55
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Wafflecopper posted:Yup, even hired an intervention which spawned right there to remove fog of war. It was 100% a ruin. And it was the only ritual city. None others listed when I moused over the icon and no glowy poo poo from any other cities Sounds like that was exactly what the Rats wanted you to think. Well played Queek, well played.
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Oct 7, 2017 11:01
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who is excited for norse to wipe out the empire and then skaven to move in
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Oct 7, 2017 11:04
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John Charity Spring posted:This sounds like a case of intervention armies not knowing how to uncover skaven cities rather than it being a genuine ruin. Oh, do Skaven get a mechanic where their cities appear as ruins? That would make sense. I've only played as Helfs so far so haven't had much interaction with them. Still doesn't explain how they can ritual with only one city. Unless the others were hidden because they were also "ruins"? That doesn't seem consistent with the one that did show up though.
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Oct 7, 2017 11:04
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Wafflecopper posted:Oh, do Skaven get a mechanic where their cities appear as ruins? That would make sense. I've only played as Helfs so far so haven't had much interaction with them. Still doesn't explain how they can ritual with only one city that is pretty much their defining mechanic maybe they only had one city
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Oct 7, 2017 11:05
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drat it I made all these Phoenix Guards and wondered why every fight they get stomped by everything and then I see I should of made Swordmasters.
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Oct 7, 2017 11:19
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Wafflecopper posted:Oh, do Skaven get a mechanic where their cities appear as ruins? That would make sense. I've only played as Helfs so far so haven't had much interaction with them. Still doesn't explain how they can ritual with only one city. Unless the others were hidden because they were also "ruins"? That doesn't seem consistent with the one that did show up though. It kinda fucks with the AI a bit, in that they seem to know to send armies in your general direction and will remember settlements that have already been discovered, but if they don't have an actual target they'll be more prone to loving around uselessly. With some creativity you can easily bait enemy armies into ambushes with the garrison reinforcements and whatnot.
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Oct 7, 2017 11:21
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Third World Reggin posted:
Overcharged Doombolt deals armor piercing damage and can snipe enemy leadership fast. The homing is pretty good, but sometimes it still misses anyway. Testing on a mounted Skaven Warlord. Doombolt did 5% of total hp damage for 11 Winds. OC Doombolt did 15% of total hp damage for 16 Winds. RBA-Wintrow fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 12:02
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Third World Reggin posted:who is excited for norse to wipe out the empire and then skaven to move in Skavenblight is going to be such a Thunderdome! Estalia! Tilea! Dwarves! Wood elves! Beastmen! Orks from the south, Goblins from the north! Everybody hates everybody else!
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Oct 7, 2017 12:09
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RBA-Wintrow posted:Overcharged Doombolt deals armor piercing damage and can snipe enemy leadership fast. The homing is pretty good, but sometimes it still misses anyway. that explains why I thought it was doing poo poo damage. It looked like it hit quite often but still did poo poo damage which was probably just a miss or something else in combat hitting it.
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Oct 7, 2017 12:18
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Third World Reggin posted:that explains why I thought it was doing poo poo damage. It looked like it hit quite often but still did poo poo damage which was probably just a miss or something else in combat hitting it. I've noticed that the 'homing' really means that the target tracks until the bombardment actually starts, then it stops tracking. Which means if a unit keeps moving, the doombolt will miss it.
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Oct 7, 2017 12:26
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gently caress Saphery and Ellyrion! They are so worthless hating all the other elves and they get the inner ring. Also gently caress Avelorn too because they also have access to the fortress gates and they fail at holding anyone back.
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Oct 7, 2017 12:53
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Tiler Kiwi posted:so, yeah, in my own experience, the vortex campaign mechanics have resulted in me having to move outside my comfort zone, fight difficult battles, juggle multiple problems, and have fun doing it. So I've actually enjoyed the vortex campaign and its mechanics quite a lot. I do really think they should have just kicked people in the face if they played on anything higher than normal and done a "no you just fuckin lost" thing if they failed to stop the opposing rituals, since that added pressure adds a lot to the whole experience. People would have, of course, complained a lot, and modded it out, because players are baby scum. The complaints about the other Good But Hated TW Mechanic, Realm Divide, at least had some substance due to several parts of it completely blindsiding the player, but the ritual stuff is telegraphed in an inordinately incessant manner, so the easy out ends up being a disservice. Even the most complained about thing, the spawning armies during your own ritual, is something that is only triggered by you, is telegraphed far in advance, and is something that is entirely within your power to prepare for. You can lose settlements despite preparation, but that just means you need to plan for that, as well. Losing is fun, and memorable. My feelings exactly, though in my case as Mazdamundi I burnt down half of Naggaroth and left two armies occupying the DE non-capital ritual cities and sent Mazda himself on a desperate bid to take one of the HE ritual cities (we started our rituals in the same turn, so technically I didn't need to do that, but felt appropriate). The invasion turned hilarious when Greybeard's Prospectors sent four doomstacks to invade Lothern and settled some grudges. As for my own ritual invaders, they burnt down a few ancillary cities and I sent some sacrificial armies their way to damage their armies enough so that my garrisons could take them. It was all and all a very memorable and very challenging ending for a Total War campaign and mostly because I engaged with the Ritual mechanics in good faith and pushed hard for ritual cities while sabotaging the other guys. If you play boring, your game will be boring. I understand why CA didn't go all in with the loss condition, but I hope they disable the pity ritual-cancelling fight from Very Hard and Legendary eventually.
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Oct 7, 2017 13:37
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 Dinos rule.
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Oct 7, 2017 13:44
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ok so I've finally gotten the white lion and I swear when I was playing skaven I saw someone else with a very long last name I swear it was somethingratname from mordheim or something and I am now wondering if they were unique as well
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Oct 7, 2017 13:48
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It's a shame you got to jump through hoops to build star chambers and complete a once every 10 turn ritual to be able to recruit Slann Priest lords, but they are just so underwhelming compared to your carnosaur riding regular generals or skink casters riding stegodons. Thematically it's neat to jump through those hoops to recruit a special type of lord, just wish they were better then the ones you don't have to jump through hoops to get.
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Oct 7, 2017 13:55
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The big reveal about the twin-tailed comet has got to be the most Skaveny thing possible. 
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Oct 7, 2017 14:04
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Someone please tell me how to overcast again? I double click spells but it just turns them off again?
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Oct 7, 2017 14:09
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The more I play them, the more I feel that the Skaven are pretty much the best faction at letting the player utilize their strengths as a human player. I hope that sentence doesn't sound too crazy, but it's stuff like an extremely powerful ranged arsenal, great skirmishers with debuffs, magic that's very good against blobs, and the best tarpit units in the game (and an ability that can drop a tarpit anywhere in an instant); all of these are way better in the hands of a human player than an AI.
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Oct 7, 2017 14:10
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