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Just to be clear: is the first welcome an accidental typo by the translator as it says welcone
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Oct 7, 2017 15:28
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tiistai posted:Well technically only the stew and the ice cream are making claims they could be lying about and the ice cream being melted makes more sense. I think it's D, the ice cream, because it's melted and gone warm. It's not cool anymore!
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Oct 7, 2017 15:31
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how is the south pole riddle the easiest
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Oct 7, 2017 15:32
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The implication of the wine is false, as alcohol dehydrates you  But this is for a six year old; it's probably that the witch was late enough that the ice cream melted in the heat of the day. D. "The ice cream." e: v That's a good point. Hm... Telum fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 15:35
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I'm gonna guess A.The Stew. It says "I've made some vegetable stew for you." but can a stew really make itself? The beginning says the magical kitchen only 'serves' a freshly-made meal, so its not really an explicit contradiction. That's kind of a rough guess though, the ice cream might be a better bet.
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Oct 7, 2017 15:45
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I'm going to go with A, the stew is lying, because it says "I made some stew for you," but a thing can't make itself; moreover, all of the other food items refer to themselves as "me." edit: ^oops, beaten
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Oct 7, 2017 15:50
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Confused Llama posted:I'm going to go with A, the stew is lying, because it says "I made some stew for you," but a thing can't make itself; moreover, all of the other food items refer to themselves as "me." Huh one thats fairly divisive. Im going with D-Ice cream since it specified that she came home VERY late and it would be melted. It could be the stew but i get the feeling that while its hard to determine if they could "make" themselves its not impossible and there was nothing contridictary about it. Also if we seem completely stuck could we ask for EVA's hint (if there is a consensus about needing it of course)?
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Oct 7, 2017 16:06
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lookw posted:Also if we seem completely stuck could we ask for EVA's hint (if there is a consensus about needing it of course)? [ten minutes of witch laughter, unskippable]
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Oct 7, 2017 16:08
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Tired Moritz posted:how is the south pole riddle the easiest Honestly, if you're coming across it for the first time it probably isn't. It's just a lot better known than most of the other puzzles, so anyone who's looked at puzzles before will probably know the answer immediately.
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Oct 7, 2017 16:24
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Going with D - Melted Ice-cream. Unless the Valentine's TIP was foreshadowing and the answer is really A because Ronove made everything.
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Oct 7, 2017 16:30
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Ice cream can stay unmelted by keeping in the freezer, but still..isn't there a contradiction? It says it will wipe away "the heat of the day," but the witch got home very late, ie at night, eg the heat of the day is already gone.
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Oct 7, 2017 16:44
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Voting D - Ice Cream because it says that the meal is freshly-made WHEN THE WITCH COMES HOME AT AN APPOINTED TIME. Since she came home late, the stew and bread would be fine and the wine would probably be fine too since you don't ice it, but the ice cream should be all melted.
Rune Full Moon fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 16:56
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Yeah, it's going to have to be D - Ice Cream for me as well. Though "I made myself for you" stew, fresh "hard bread", and "quench thirst" wine did come to mind as well. Melted ice cream is likely considered to be the liar since you can't eat it.
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Oct 7, 2017 17:13
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Also, even if the soup is cold and the bread is stale, neither of them made any statements about their own temperature, so they can't be lying. Riddles aside, I wholeheartedly agree with Eva here, she is a goddamn failure as an aunt/mother, and everyone lining up to excuse her behavior is messed up. What the gently caress, Battler, that's not how forgiveness works. It's not about making excuses like the person never did anything wrong. Forgiveness is about acknowledging someone's misdeeds, but resolving to leave the past in the past for the sake of the future. You're not gonna teach your sister anything about forgiveness by pretending the person who tormented her never did anything wrong, Battler. Even after all this time, you remain incompetent.
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Oct 7, 2017 17:16
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Cyouni posted:"I made myself for you" Huh. That's not exactly what the stew says. It says "I've made some vegetable stew for you," and it's the only food that refers to itself that way, mixing first and third person... Maybe I'm over-thinking it.
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Oct 7, 2017 17:20
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D - ice cream. Eva is dead now. What Ange needs is to see that Eva was human, that people actually liked her once upon a time, that she honestly tried to be a good parent. It's not supposed to make her think that Eva was a good person all along, it's supposed to get her to realize that there was good along with the bad. Because at this point, the only thing she really knows is being miserable, not knowing how to find her own silver linings.
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Oct 7, 2017 17:25
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Is the bread lying... down? 🤔
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Oct 7, 2017 17:29
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^^^This is good too! I'm probably going to be wrong about this since the statement about the heat of the day seems the most pertinent, but I think the soup is lying. Soup can't make itself, unless it is god soup. EagerSleeper fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 17:51
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Cyouni posted:Melted ice cream is likely considered to be the liar since you can't eat it. But I've eaten melted ice cream many times 
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Oct 7, 2017 18:32
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bman in 2288 posted:Eva is dead now. What Ange needs is to see that Eva was human, that people actually liked her once upon a time, that she honestly tried to be a good parent. It's not supposed to make her think that Eva was a good person all along, it's supposed to get her to realize that there was good along with the bad. If I were Ange I'd be pretty pissed to hear my parents of all people being used to say my abuser did nothing wrong. If Eva were still alive she could show her good side by apologizing and resolving to do better by Ange in the future. But since she's already dead, it doesn't really mater if Eva was literally Satan, it's still in Ange's best interest set aside he hatered and forgive her. Eva is saying all the right things here, and if this conversation is about absolution for Eva the everything is fine. But if everything in this story is for Ange's benefit, it feels like Rudolf and Kyrie forgive her a little too easily. Instead of "we don't blame you at all" it ought to be "everything you've said is true, but we forgive you anyway". That might just be the exact problem with Battler's approach here: the candy-coated Halloween dream is such a stark contrast to previous depictions that it all feels fake, when the point is to show that these are nuanced people with both good and bad. But then we're not done yet, and these games have all started happy before taking a downward turn, so maybe when this one starts going downhill it'll end up somewhere closer to the truth than any of the other games.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:41
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ZiegeDame posted:If I were Ange I'd be pretty pissed to hear my parents of all people being used to say my abuser did nothing wrong. If Eva were still alive she could show her good side by apologizing and resolving to do better by Ange in the future. But since she's already dead, it doesn't really mater if Eva was literally Satan, it's still in Ange's best interest set aside he hatered and forgive her. Eva is saying all the right things here, and if this conversation is about absolution for Eva the everything is fine. But if everything in this story is for Ange's benefit, it feels like Rudolf and Kyrie forgive her a little too easily. Instead of "we don't blame you at all" it ought to be "everything you've said is true, but we forgive you anyway". Except the thing is that Eva's blaming herself for not having the patience of a saint. "Why did I not spend 10+ years trying to show constant affection to a person that hated my guts and instead give up after a few years" is what she's basically saying there. I suspect you'd find it hard to find anyone that would be able to fulfill those requirements. tiistai posted:But I've eaten melted ice cream many times Is it still considered eating something if the item in question's a liquid?
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Oct 7, 2017 19:11
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Cyouni posted:Except the thing is that Eva's blaming herself for not having the patience of a saint. "Why did I not spend 10+ years trying to show constant affection to a person that hated my guts and instead give up after a few years" is what she's basically saying there. I suspect you'd find it hard to find anyone that would be able to fulfill those requirements. There's a pretty big gap between heaping affection on someone and tormenting her to the point that you have armed men bring her to your hospital room so you can tell her to go gently caress herself from your deathbed. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 19:38
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ZiegeDame posted:There's a pretty big gap between heaping affection on someone and tormenting her to the point that you have armed men bring her to your hospital room so you can tell her to go gently caress herself from your deathbed. I thought Ange went and visited Eva on her death bed herself. To try and get the truth form her one last time. Also it seems less that Eva tormented Ange that Ange was determined to be miserable no matter what. Combined with Eva suffering from Madness.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:13
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Yeah, it has to be the ice cream. As tiistai pointed out, only two items actually make statements as opposed to issuing commands, and that's the one that's most likely to be false.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:49
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Re: Eva.... this is another hard bit. On the one hand, I absolutely see where ZD is coming from, and have a lot misgivings at the threads of thought being presented here, whatever the reason for them. What particularly rankles is Rudolph's cavalier attitude abut Ange's "not accepting" Eva's love,- it reeks too much of dismissal of Ange's own problems as weaknesses that were her fault, a recidivist idea that leads to some really poisoned places of thought. We do not blame or punish the sick for being sick; that is not how a civilized society works. But on the other hand, and by the same token... Eva was sick, too, and to beat herself up for something that never really should have been solely her responsibility isn't healthy either. It's not really a question of who failed the other when the failure is so complete that tragedy is the only way this situation could have ended. Here is a young girl who has suffered a shock so traumatic that it damaged her ability to attach herself to the only family she had left, put into the care of someone who so thoroughly internalized the cruelty of her family that it turned her into such an unforgiving try-hard in her later years that it drover her into rages to see anyone else not also giving 110%... and the only real option to take down that barrier is a truth about the island that most certainly would have laid even more trauma on Ange than was already there if it was told. Even now, Eva takes the whips out and unfairly blames herself for a problem that could only have reasonably been dealt with by a third party, like a family therapist- maybe even someone else willing to alleviate the burden of raising a child. And the sad thing is, even if such help were offered, Eva was more likely to reject it than Rosa, and for the same reason- "I need to do this on my own, this is my responsibility." All the ways the problems can be fixed are right there,obvious to anyone.... and equally obvious is the understanding of why those ways were never explored... I suppose that's why we call them tragedies.  Re: the riddle- I'm going to be no help here, I think. This does have to do with wording, yes- what is being said by the food? In that case, the only one I'm drawn to is ice cream , because it's the only food item that makes an if/then statement, instead of a declaration or invitation, but it stands out so much it feels like a trap. But I can't see anything else it could be, so... D-ice cream, i guess.
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Oct 7, 2017 22:38
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I mean Eva explicitly made a rape threat to Ange on her deathbed I thought*, so regardless of the morality of foisting Ange off on an boarding school because the tension was too unbearable, there was definitely some hosed up stuff Eva was actively doing to mess with Ange, even if I doubt she'd actually have hired people to hurt Ange. Even if you've decided your ward is going to hate you no matter what, that's not an excuse to threaten them. I think her sending Ange off to boarding school out of emotional fatigue is not explicitly abusive. It didn't end up being emotionally healthy for Ange, but neither would living with Eva at that point. But there's a lot of stuff we get that does seem explicitly abusive. * Am I misremembering? It was something like 'I've hired people to take off your arms and legs' or something. I might be just misremembering the sexual violence aspect but it was definitely super gory. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 22:46
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She said she could have done that, but didn't, and that a more appropriate revenge would be letting Ange inherit everything and, in fact, making sure she had even more money to inherit.
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Oct 7, 2017 22:52
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"I've thought of something even more interesting. *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*! I've worried over it a lot. What could I do to make things horrible for you? I thought about killing you. I also thought about erasing all of my wealth, leaving you penniless, and selling you off to a slave trader or something. Wouldn't that be wonderful? You'd have your arms and legs chopped off and be forced to take customers until you died. Aaah, that would be so wonderful, *cackle*cackle*cackle*!!" "...Having fun?" "Oh yes, it is. It's fun to scare you, but very soon, I will die. So I thought about how I might continue to cause you pain even after my death. And then, *cackle*cackle*!! It was surprisingly simple. I called you because I wanted to talk about it."
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Oct 7, 2017 23:11
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See, that's so over the top. That kind of sounds like Eva decided "well, if she's going to hate me anyway, I might as well play the role she's cast me in; maybe that'll give her some sense of satisfaction."
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Oct 7, 2017 23:23
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No one is obligated to love anyone and Ange really did go "gently caress you" first. Eva good
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Oct 8, 2017 01:14
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Tired Moritz posted:No one is obligated to love anyone Rosa, Kinzo, and Maria's father will be happy to hear this.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:35
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D: The ice cream. It would've melted since the witch got home late.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:38
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Therein lies the problem, because I would've said that ice cream made even as early as morning would still be considered freshly made in comparison to regular ice cream purchased from a store. What narrow scope of definition do you consider to be freshly made, puzzle writer? What. Is. Freshly. Made. To you? Why, yes, I did have a bad time with Professor Layton games. Why do you ask?
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Oct 8, 2017 02:11
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Confused Llama posted:See, that's so over the top. That kind of sounds like Eva decided "well, if she's going to hate me anyway, I might as well play the role she's cast me in; maybe that'll give her some sense of satisfaction." Tired Moritz posted:No one is obligated to love anyone and Ange really did go "gently caress you" first. Actually parents and guardians of children are in fact obligated to love their children and provide emotional care for them. It's a theme of this very Visual Novel, even. Ange did go 'gently caress you' first but she was six years old up to maybe, what, ten years old? She treated Eva harshly, but she was literally a child with an underdeveloped brain and little life experience. As the adult in this equation, and more specifically, Ange's caretaker, Eva is the one with the obligation to be understanding and keep attempting to make Ange happy, even when Ange is being a brat. Love and affection is literally a psychological need, not a want, and especially so for children. It's understandable that Eva burned out and if she'd just sent Ange to a highly-rated boarding school with other kids her age in the hopes of giving Ange what she needs at an emotional difference, I wouldn't be judging her nearly so harshly, but at some point along the 12 years before she died, something went seriously wrong with her mental state and decision making, and I don't think brushing over that is helpful. Even if Eva acted the part of the evil witch in an attempt to keep Ange from suspecting her parents because she thought that'd cause more emotional damage, even if it was a twisted act of love, that doesn't make it good. What Kinzo did to his daughter was also an act of love, and his intent doesn't really matter there. EDIT: I actually really like Eva and I think what she did was understandable, I just don't think it was smart, kind, or justified.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:46
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It really depends on how Ange/Eva's relationship really is. It's not like Maria who is basically just kinda an occult kid who really wanted to love her mom. Eva did try her hardest to take care of Ange, but if Ange just refuse to reciprocate, then there's just nothing Eva can do. Love is a two-way street and Ange was just unwilling to give any back. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Ange wanted Eva to act like an saturday morning villain as it give her an excuse to hate on her more. I'm not trying to excuse both of their behavior, but I'm not sure if I'm a fan of people planting their relationship's issues solely on Eva.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:15
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Ange in EP4 recounts how Eva had her physically beaten, and often punished her arbitrarily just because she was in a bad mood, so I'm not really happy to get on the Eva Apologism Train, myself. EDIT: EP4 posted:The moment I grabbed at my head, my scalp was kicked by someone at a bad angle, and my head was filled with stars... The feeling of stars flickering in this gray, twisted world...was one I remembered clearly. Raelle fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 03:26
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Mmm, dang. Physical abuse is really terrible so I don't know anymore. everyone is awful. r.i.p.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:37
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You can feel worse for Ange while still feeling bad for Eva, as it's not like the latter didn't herself go through a life of abuse topped off with one of the most horrific events one might imagine. It doesn't excuse her treatment of Ange but it's not nothing. E: it's almost like the game is underlining that abuse and trauma are cyclical!
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Oct 8, 2017 03:58
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Rodyle posted:You can feel worse for Ange while still feeling bad for Eva, as it's not like the latter didn't herself go through a life of abuse topped off with one of the most horrific events one might imagine. It doesn't excuse her treatment of Ange but it's not nothing.
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Oct 8, 2017 07:08
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PetraCore posted:she's got nobody keeping her from going off the deep end. She had Okonogi. I don't remember enough about the specifics of Higurashi to know if that's a good thing.
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Oct 8, 2017 07:16
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