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The pharmacist is not a good guy. He makes an appearance in 11/22/63 also, and he's just unpleasant.
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Oct 1, 2017 07:52
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Timeless Appeal posted:Not really because you're creating a dichotomy based on a cartoon character, your own misunderstanding of why Donald Trump was elected President, and ignoring the fact that my whole point is that Bev was able to call bullshit on Pennywise's own irreverence. My absolute favorite part of this thread is only reading responses to SMGs posts and getting absolutely contextless gems
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Oct 1, 2017 08:06
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Timeless Appeal posted:Donald Trump mostly won because of what some perceive as law and order which they interpret as asserting fear See, that's the CD Subtext Game in action. Like Pennywise is bad and Donald Trump are bad, therefore Pennywise is Donald Trump. (Pennywise is also a stern schoolteacher.) [Like many presidents and schoolteachers, Pennywise is secretly a giant spider, travels through the pipes in your home, and is only visible to people under the age of 15.] I'm not sure your post is based on anything I've written, or on the actual film. Beverley does not 'overcome' anything by killing her father. She ends up as another 'missing child', one of the undead. And then, on the flipside, Donald Trump doesn't fear children(?) and the power of friendship(?!). Here's a better way of reading, from King himself. Five years before the release of IT (the novel), King took the time in Danse Macabre to praise a little movie called The Giant Spider Invasion. Released in 1975, King praises its retro style, comparing it to films like It Came From Outer Space (which he namedrops): "The Giant Spider Invasion ... comes equipped with a plot straight out of the fifties, and there were even a lot of fifties actors and actresses on view in it, including Barbara Hale and Bill Williams." The plot? A weird meteor crashes to Earth, in a crummy hick town in Wisconsin, and creates a 'space warp' that opens up an interdimensional portal. The town is then slowly infected by a magic giant spider from this hell dimension, as "In spite of the title, there is really only one giant spider, but we don't feel cheated because it's a dilly. It appears to be a Volkswagen covered with half a dozen bearskin rugs. ... The taillights double neatly as blinking red spider eyes. It is impossible to see such a budget-conscious special effect without feeling a wave of admiration." King is doing a bit of CinemaSins bullshitting here, accidentally creating the myth that the Giant Spider was a volkswagen. (The Giant Spider was actually realized with two life-sized puppets, both custom armatures, and neither is shaped anything like a car. Also the eyes aren't red.) But King's point is that he loves the spider - it fills him with admiration and nostalgia for his youth. In a 70s narrative about how the town is actually plagued with poverty, alcoholism, and child abuse, with the Cold War looming in the background, the bad-effects Giant Spider is a comforting presence - an "irascible friend" from King's childhood in the 50s. You trade all those little fears for a bigger one: "You ever see the movie Jaws? It makes that shark look like a goldfish!" -The sheriff in Giant Spider Invasion, upon seeing the Giant Spider. See, even though King gets the facts wrong, he's nonetheless paying attention to the formal qualities of the work instead of the plot content. The cheapo form of the spider stands for budget-consciousness and ambition. It's characterization - if not for the Giant Spider, then certainly for whoever unleashed it upon the world. In this way, the Giant Spider stands for the film crew that invaded that small town, disrupting people's lives in pursuit of art and profit. The film bears an uncanny resemblance to Maximum Overdrive.
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Oct 1, 2017 09:36
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beep beep richie
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Oct 1, 2017 13:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:[Like many presidents and schoolteachers, Pennywise is secretly a giant spider, travels through the pipes in your home, and is only visible to people under the age of 15.] My original statement was that the movie is about how adults try to control children through fear. It's not really a subtext game, but pretty surface level textual. Almost every major adult in this film is somehow using fear to try to control children. And that includes Pennywise who acts like a befuddled substitute teacher when he realizes Bev isn't scared of him before remembering he's a cthulu monster. I was responding to claims to a film being about the nature of childhood not being political being flawed because as a teacher, it literally is the fight that is being had regarding education. There are adults who honestly think the purpose of school is to control kids and fear is the way to achieve this. You created this weird dichotomy of either kids are being controlled through fear or are Bart Simpson which is working with a lot less nuance than both the film and book. I admit I went way too far up my own rear end to try to respond to you.
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Oct 1, 2017 15:44
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If Donnie doesn't hate kids then why is he trying to kill them by exacerbating climate change, denying them healthcare and blowing them up, smart guy. 
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Oct 1, 2017 15:51
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The way the adults treat the kids, from ignoring them to outright abusing them, is spelled out pretty clearly as them being a part of the monster, at least symbolically. The whole movie is about overcoming childhood fears. The mistrust of adults, the power and control they wield and the damage they can cause through either direct abuse or outright negligence is a rather obvious huge part of that. I don't think there are layers upon layers of ways to look at that part of the story either, but when has that ever stopped SMG?
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Oct 1, 2017 17:26
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Looke posted:beep First as tragedy Looke posted:beep Then as farce Looke posted:richie the Other ---- i think im getting the hang of this
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Oct 1, 2017 17:30
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BiggerBoat posted:The whole movie is about overcoming childhood fears. Well no not really. The film is about the fantasy of "childhood fears" and what they're a cover for. That's why the evil clown is a petty bully that keeps coming back, and all the teen bullies are uncomfortably sexualized.
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Oct 1, 2017 18:42
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Pennywise/It seems to have some relationship with the power structure of the town. He's in the "kiddie show" broadcast which even the adults have going, like it's some sort of subliminal brainwashing- they're not watching the news or soaps or anything, they're watching a Romper Room-style schoolmistress tell kids they should play in the sewers and occasionally Pennywise pops in as well. And of course she tells Eddie to kill his dad. Like it's clear that It/Pennywise isn't the author of ALL the town's ills- in the book this is made more explicit, like the Black Spot fire being an entirely human act that he just showed up to watch. But he's part of the corrupt structure- he's worked his way in, he benefits from it, from the adults' silence. Which is why, yeah, the ending is incomplete- of course they haven't destroyed it entirely. To do that you'd have to wash the whole town away or something.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:30
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[quote="“Eifert Posting”" post="“476942821”"] If Donnie doesn’t hate kids then why is he trying to kill them by exacerbating climate change, denying them healthcare and blowing them up, smart guy. [/quote] Trump is infamously afraid of staircases, and claimed to be a germaphobe (in an effort to dismiss the piss tape rumours). Even if Trump were afraid of children, that would be pretty far down the list of his prominent traits. Timeless Appeal posted:My original statement was that the movie is about how adults try to control children through fear. It's not really a subtext game, but pretty surface level textual. Almost every major adult in this film is somehow using fear to try to control children. And that includes Pennywise who acts like a befuddled substitute teacher when he realizes Bev isn't scared of him before remembering he's a cthulu monster. I was responding to claims to a film being about the nature of childhood not being political being flawed because as a teacher, it literally is the fight that is being had regarding education. There are adults who honestly think the purpose of school is to control kids and fear is the way to achieve this. The problem here is, first, that phrases like 'using fear' are extremely nonspecific (the kids themselves 'use fear' to control other kids) and, second, that even those loose terms don't apply in the film. We don't see a single teacher using fear to control kids in the movie; the filmmakers make a very deliberate point of how the events take place during summer vacation. The police do not use fear to control kids; they are simply distant. Billy's dad doesn't use fear to control Billy - and Pennywise himself does not use fear to control kids. Pennywise scares kids for fun, but controls them with hypnotic light shows (signals from the TV, etc.). These same signals serve to pacify the adult population. The specifics are important.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The problem here is, first, that phrases like 'using fear' are extremely nonspecific (the kids themselves 'use fear' to control other kids) and, second, that even those loose terms don't apply in the film. I'm not saying that the film is a statement on cops or teachers, and I'm unsure where that's coming from besides being a teacher is a lens that I bring with me. I'm saying that adults utilize fear to get what they want out of kids, be it compliance or be it abuse or even a misguided sense of safety (Eddies' mom). It's a theme that is transferable. I can't find a good clip of the actual scene, but it's worth noting that the kid show is designed as an old-school call and response TV show. It's an adult sitting in the center of a group of kids, telling them what to do and what to think. You're correct that it's not necessarily fear, but more the complaint group think that is Derry.
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Oct 1, 2017 22:54
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Of course it's about Donnie, there's an underage gangbang.
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Oct 2, 2017 01:59
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Well no not really. The film is about the fantasy of "childhood fears" and what they're a cover for. That's why the evil clown is a petty bully that keeps coming back, and all the teen bullies are uncomfortably sexualized. I don't read it that way at all and think you're overanalyzing it. The message of the the book and especially the film seems rather obvious to me and I just went to see the movie for a second time this afternoon.
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Oct 2, 2017 04:15
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The bit with Georgie at the start is legit as scary as the film gets, it shocked me and made me think "oh poo poo, this is going to be harsh" and then............... bit disappointed in all honesty. Aspects of it were legit good and freaky, the Jewish kid's fear of that loving painting and the resulting scares from the lady in it were great and disturbing. Everything else just kinda fell short though. There were bits right at the end that were hosed up, IT vomits forth a bunch of hands and the imagery of that was freaky but I dunno, a lot of it came across as funny rather than scary? It seemed a little lost in places.
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Oct 2, 2017 10:27
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Man, this thread is a ride
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Oct 2, 2017 11:22
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Im just glad that a blockbuster horror movie has plenty of things to discuss
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Oct 2, 2017 13:42
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Giant IT in the projector/garage scene got the only jump out of me. Up until that point I basically thought my wife who refuses to see it could probably handle it.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:31
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[quote="“Timeless Appeal”" post="“476955148”"] It’s a broad umbrella in the film. Eddie, Henry, and Bev’s parents are all completely different in their intent, but they all use fear to get some level of compliance out of their children. The film begins with Pennywise engaging in very child predator behavior leveraging Georgie’s guilt of losing the boat to coax Georgie in doing something he knows is the wrong thing to do. The intent is different, but in function it’s not different from “I worry about you, Bev.” I’m not saying that the film is a statement on cops or teachers, and I’m unsure where that’s coming from besides being a teacher is a lens that I bring with me. I’m saying that adults utilize fear to get what they want out of kids, be it compliance or be it abuse or even a misguided sense of safety (Eddies’ mom). It’s a theme that is transferable. I can’t find a good clip of the actual scene, but it’s worth noting that the kid show is designed as an old-school call and response TV show. It’s an adult sitting in the center of a group of kids, telling them what to do and what to think. You’re correct that it’s not necessarily fear, but more the complaint group think that is Derry. [/quote] I get the impression that you are kinda free-associating this stuff, because your posts are becoming increasingly difficult to parse. Like of course 'fear' is a very basic theme in the movie. So is 'childhood'. But once we get into the critique of the film, you're writing stuff like 'Pennywise is an exaggeration of how adults utilize compliant groupthink, and Beverley overcomes the exaggeration of how adults utilize compliant groupthink via her embrace of the word "no", which stands for her realization that adults cannot function without compliant groupthink (because friendship is stronger than adults once their groupthink is understood as a half-imaginary stress).' SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 04:37
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SMG finds someone else's writing impenetrable. next, we'll end up discovering a fully-intact Bigfoot corpse or something.
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Oct 3, 2017 05:54
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[quote="“LORD OF BOOTY”" post="“477005412”"] SMG finds someone else’s writing impenetrable. next, we’ll end up discovering a fully-intact Bigfoot corpse or something. [/quote] Not impenetrable; difficult to parse. 'Impenetrability' implies hidden depth - that we must find the meaning beneath the surface of the language. Parsing is just figuring out the grammar. I understand what Timeless has written (it's not that difficult to parse), but the phrasing is both vague and... unusual. Instead of 'adults utilizing compliant groupthink', why not just say 'authority figures'? (Probable answer: Pennywise, the sewer clown, is obviously not any sort of authority figure - so Timeless' thesis depends on being nonspecific. Pennywise is just, like, utilizing... stuff.) The ideas are also incomplete. Timeless writes that Pennywise is 'an exaggerated adult', but skips the basic question of who is doing the exaggerating. The kids? Pennywise himself? And then, why?
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Oct 3, 2017 08:44
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Lol
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Oct 3, 2017 12:44
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I appreciate that SMG is harsh on how people write so they can try and bring their thoughts across clearer. No irony
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Oct 3, 2017 14:59
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Olympic Mathlete posted:The bit with Georgie at the start is legit as scary as the film gets, it shocked me and made me think "oh poo poo, this is going to be harsh" and then............... bit disappointed in all honesty. Aspects of it were legit good and freaky, the Jewish kid's fear of that loving painting and the resulting scares from the lady in it were great and disturbing. Everything else just kinda fell short though. There were bits right at the end that were hosed up, IT vomits forth a bunch of hands and the imagery of that was freaky but I dunno, a lot of it came across as funny rather than scary? It seemed a little lost in places. It is an adventure kids movie like ET or Goonies only with the possibility of kids dying in it, and the opening scene sets those stakes.
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Oct 3, 2017 16:50
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:SMG finds someone else's writing impenetrable. next, we'll end up discovering a fully-intact Bigfoot corpse or something.
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Oct 3, 2017 16:52
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SMG's posts are infinitely more enjoyable to read if you imagine them narrated by Werner Herzog. That is not an insult.
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Oct 3, 2017 16:59
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Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned that someone should do a version of Pennywise but as the Crimson Ghost. Well I didn't do exactly that but it was a fun design. I'll probably tweak it some more.
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Oct 3, 2017 22:41
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the popular kids posted:Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned that someone should do a version of Pennywise but as the Crimson Ghost. Well I didn't do exactly that but it was a fun design. I'll probably tweak it some more. Hey, that was me! Well done, man. Awesome work.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:12
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Fart City posted:Hey, that was me! Well done, man. Awesome work. Thank you 😙 I have a friend who wants it on a tee-shirt so that will be neat.
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Oct 5, 2017 02:51
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the popular kids posted:Thank you 😙 I would buy that on a shirt too, looks awesome!
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Oct 6, 2017 01:09
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Fart City posted:SMG's posts are infinitely more enjoyable to read if you imagine them narrated by Werner Herzog. I read SMGs post as if they're being read by Ben Stein because that's how loving dry, boring and worthless they are. This is absolutely meant as an insult.
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Oct 6, 2017 04:03
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Neat poscast interview with Bill Skarsgard about getting and preparing for his role and developing the character, with a funny story about gas. Can't wait to watch the Georgie scene again with all this in mind. https://www.google.com/amp/variety.com/2017/film/news/playback-podcast-bill-skarsgard-it-stephen-king-1202558033/amp/
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Oct 6, 2017 19:57
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I think by the time I saw the first shot of the Munster house I checked out. What a lovely movie.
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Oct 7, 2017 12:38
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It was good enough for Georgie!!!!!
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Oct 7, 2017 15:38
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End of Shoelace posted:I appreciate that SMG is harsh on how people write so they can try and bring their thoughts across clearer. No irony your brain functions poorly.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:42
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SwissCM posted:I think by the time I saw the first shot of the Munster house I checked out. What a lovely movie. It was spooky as gently caress you philistine!
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Oct 7, 2017 19:06
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I kind of thought it looked ridiculous as well. Also I thought it looked like that house from what's it called animated movie
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Oct 7, 2017 19:07
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It's a fantasy spook house.
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Oct 7, 2017 19:59
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CelticPredator posted:It was good enough for Georgie!!!!! That part is so good.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:05
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CelticPredator posted:It was good enough for Georgie!!!!! Ahahaha.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:01
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