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Taerkar posted:The previous DoJ was looking into the abuses by the various police departments around the country. imo we need to be investigating rape perpetrated by the powerful regardless of industry
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Oct 11, 2017 15:35
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Condiv posted:dude, i learned about this a week ago. I will when you stop trying to pretend Obama sold his daughter's body to Harvey Weinstein. Or are you just going to pretend you didn't imply that because you're just "asking questions"? Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 15:35
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Angry_Ed posted:That's not what this is about, and you know it. Repeating a right-wing talking point does not magically make it about what you think it is. Of course it is. It is an issue because Democrats nurtured a relationship with Weinstein.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:37
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Angry_Ed posted:I will when you stop trying to pretend Obama sold his daughter's body to Harvey Weinstein i'm not pretending he sold his daughter to weinstein, that's silly i think he knew full well that she was offlimits to weinstein (what with her secret service entourage, and being the daughter of the most powerful man on earth) and didn't particularly care that weinstein was raping people that he held power over edit: i didn't imply malia was sold off to weinstein either you nutcase
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Oct 11, 2017 15:37
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steinrokkan posted:This defensive mentality only makes you weaker by seemingly (but not really) shielding your politicians and bureaucrats from the consequences of their mistakes. that's nonsense; these days left-wing politicians are the only ones who actually do suffer any consequences for their misdeeds. See, e.g., Anthony Weiner; cf [President]
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Oct 11, 2017 15:37
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business hammocks posted:He says that "any man who degrades women in such fashion" should be condemned. I guess he's saying that he believes the charges are true, though. That's more directness than I would expect from Obama. He doesn't actually say that Weinstein should be condemned, though. He says he's disgusted by the "reports" about Weinstein. He also says that anyone who does the things the reports describe should be condemned. He carefully avoids expressing any opinion on Weinstein or linking his criticism to Weinstein. He states that he's disgusted to hear that Weinstein was accused of a crime, and then he says that anyone who does that crime should be held accountable. Separating those two statements like that is awkward and unnatural, especially since Hillary's condemnation had the exact same structure. It definitely feels like they're both hedging their bets: loudly condemning the crime, but carefully avoiding any direct criticism of Weinstein and deliberately not really addressing the actual accusations. Regardless of whether or not they knew about his behavior beforehand, they're certainly choosing an awkward way to respond to his accusations.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:38
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steinrokkan posted:Bill Clinton got under plenty of scrutiny during the election season, and back then people were freaking out that it was a Republican attack as well. And it was.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:38
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Main Paineframe posted:He doesn't actually say that Weinstein should be condemned, though. He says he's disgusted by the "reports" about Weinstein. He also says that anyone who does the things the reports describe should be condemned. He carefully avoids expressing any opinion on Weinstein or linking his criticism to Weinstein. He states that he's disgusted to hear that Weinstein was accused of a crime, and then he says that anyone who does that crime should be held accountable. Separating those two statements like that is awkward and unnatural, especially since Hillary's condemnation had the exact same structure. It definitely feels like they're both hedging their bets: loudly condemning the crime, but carefully avoiding any direct criticism of Weinstein and deliberately not really addressing the actual accusations. Regardless of whether or not they knew about his behavior beforehand, they're certainly choosing an awkward way to respond to his accusations. They're both trained lawyers, that's natural diction for them, given that Weinstein has not yet been convicted.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:39
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Fame Douglas posted:And it was. bill clinton being a perv at best and a rapist at worst isn't an attack, its a fact
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Oct 11, 2017 15:40
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Condiv posted:imo we need to be investigating rape perpetrated by the powerful regardless of industry P sure rape was illegal under Obama, what do you think the real solution to the problem of silent rape victims is?
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Oct 11, 2017 15:40
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Fame Douglas posted:And it was. just  if you think "bill clinton is a rapist" is a controversial or untrue statement
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Oct 11, 2017 15:41
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Condiv posted:just Oh my
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Oct 11, 2017 15:41
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steinrokkan posted:Bill Clinton got under plenty of scrutiny during the election season, and back then people were freaking out that it was a Republican attack as well. There is never a good time to attack any Democrat, apparently, it always leads to accusations of partisanship or to deflections. This defensive mentality only makes you weaker by seemingly (but not really) shielding your politicians and bureaucrats from the consequences of their mistakes. Actually, I think if you go back you'll find that it was Hillary who got attacked for association with Bill who the GOP was otherwise a-ok with his behavior by this point. Kind of puts the objectives into perspective.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:42
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steinrokkan posted:Of course it is. It is an issue because Democrats nurtured a relationship with Weinstein. Yes you're right only Democrats ever nurtured a relationship with Weinstein. Oh wait, no.  Why didn't Ivanka and Jared do something?  Why didn't Donald Trump do something? Why are you so obsessed with feeding the right wing narrative that this is entirely a Democrat problem instead of a problem for literally everyone because we as a nation have allowed the rich and powerful to get away with this poo poo? The moment you make this the continual team sport bullshit that the left is paradoxically obsessed with, that's the moment the GOP continues to have power.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:42
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Radish posted:The reason that the Republicans are talking about this is because they want to create an environment where their own sexual predators are normalized in the public eye because the other side does it too. This is an astute observation. Republicans thrive on "both sides, both sides" to deflect from all their evil poo poo. People can see there are problems in our country and when instead of proposing solutions we point fingers at the Republicans and say "hey they're bad too" it just makes the whole system look rotten. If no one can trust the system it's easier for Republicans to win by promising to destroy the government ("it's corrupt anyway, it only works for the insiders in Washington"), or by playing on people's fears, or by spouting nonsense like "I'm so rich I can't be bought unlike all these dirty politicians, what have you got to lose".
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Oct 11, 2017 15:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:that's nonsense; these days left-wing politicians are the only ones who actually do suffer any consequences for their misdeeds. See, e.g., Anthony Weiner; cf [President] Yes, that's what I'm saying. By insisting that scrutiny into the lives of politicians is yielding to right wing pressure, you are setting up incidents where they are going to end up in the middle of some scandal at the worst possible time. Finally, you can pick, do you want a system where both parties can do whatever they want with impunity, or one where both parties are held responsible for their actions? If you want the former, go ahead and protect Democrats from introspection. If you want the latter, let Democrats be the change you want to see in politics, and use it against the GOP.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:42
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Potato Salad posted:P sure rape was illegal under Obama, what do you think the real solution to the problem of silent rape victims is? they're not silent. they're silenced. there's a difference. lots of people tried to sound the alarm on weinstein. they were not taken seriously because of the way our culture views rape (where even trying to claim that having sex with an intoxicated person who says yes is rape is controversial)
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Oct 11, 2017 15:43
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The gently caress is going on in this thread?
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Oct 11, 2017 15:43
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Angry_Ed posted:
i seem to recall a tape coming out a year ago showing the trump had in fact taken action on weinstein by joining him
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Oct 11, 2017 15:43
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Potato Salad posted:Oh my what do you call the potus pressuring an intern into a blowjob? i call it rape
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Oct 11, 2017 15:44
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, that's what I'm saying. By insisting that scrutiny into the lives of politicians is yielding to right wing pressure, you are setting up incidents where they are going to end up in the middle of some scandal at the worst possible time. You're on a false premise. Because the reality is that only one party will ever be held responsible by their constituents. Until you can overcome that premise your dichotomy will never be accurate.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:44
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Party Plane Jones posted:The gently caress is going on in this thread? D&D and sexual assault chat is a bad, bad time.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:44
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Angry_Ed posted:Yes you're right only Democrats ever nurtured a relationship with Weinstein. Oh wait, no. I'm not saying that, you idiot. If you want to talk about Trump, do so. But are you saying that if Trump did so, then the other side is entitled to it as well? The amount of willful stupidity is astounding.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:46
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Angry_Ed posted:Yes you're right only Democrats ever nurtured a relationship with Weinstein. Oh wait, no. republicans, the party of "if it's an illegitimate pregnancy, the body has ways of shutting it down", are a-ok with rape and rapists?! 
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Oct 11, 2017 15:46
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Boon posted:You're on a false premise. Because the reality is that only one party will ever be held responsible by their constituents. Until you can overcome that premise your dichotomy will never be accurate. The GOP operates on some different plane of existence? The reason they are not under scrutiny is because Democrats suck at politics. Maybe they wouldn't suck if the public was more engaged in picking and controlling their leaders.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:46
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Condiv posted:they're not silent. they're silenced. there's a difference. Correct, they're silenced! What yokes do you think a person can have that silences them? What do you think can help someone throw off those yokes? Hint: 
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Oct 11, 2017 15:47
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steinrokkan posted:I'm not saying that, you idiot. If you want to talk about Trump, do so. I'm not the one regurgitating right wing talking points designed to cover up the moral hypocrisy of the GOP. For gently caress's sake this has been going on for over 2 decades. Al Franken loving devoted a whole chapter to it in full satire mode in his first book  It's amazing how easily you buy right wing narrative because you think it'll somehow make the left stronger. It will not. Especially when you're attacking a former president with a 60%+ approval rating.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:48
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The GOP and Democrats play on the same field, if the GOP is able to do a better job defending themselves from scandals, it is because the other team is doing something very, very wrong.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:48
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Why am i reading a clinton rape truther Is there anyone else in here who believes this, it would be easier for both of us if i just ignore you now
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Oct 11, 2017 15:48
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My biggest issue with people being stubborn on this because republicans are saying it is...so what? Ideally both parties should take any opportunity to call each other out on horrible poo poo, rather than mutually complicit silence. What happened to us being into transparency? I dont give a wet poo poo from what direction it comes from, so long as someone's not letting our current arrangement of elite pedophiles and intern-rapers influencing future potential POTUS's and DA's and NYT CEO's slide. "the other side does it too!" is something you say when it's some harmless morally grey issue like insufficient paperwork or unregistered software and other mundane crap, not buddying up to rapists for 30 years.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:49
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Potato Salad posted:Correct, they're silenced! obama and the clintons are not particularly fond of communism so that's kind of moot. plus i don't think you'd appreciate it if I said they supported these rapes cause they support a system of capitalist exploitation that allows richer than god creeps like weinstein to prey on the lower classes.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:49
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steinrokkan posted:The GOP operates on some different plane of existence? Yes. Clearly. It is why you are attacking only democrats.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:50
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Angry_Ed posted:I'm not the one regurgitating right wing talking points designed to cover up the moral hypocrisy of the GOP. For gently caress's sake this has been going on for over 2 decades. Al Franken loving devoted a whole chapter to it in full satire mode in his first book Yes, having higher standards in the code of conduct would in fact make the left stronger, not only in the PR battle, but also in their policy focus.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:50
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Potato Salad posted:Why am i reading a clinton rape truther so you think it's totally ok for one of the most powerful people in the world to pressure their vastly less powerful underlings into sex and that is not rape? cause i've been worried for any woman in the trump administration (or any woman who comes into contact with trump) for those reasons for a while now
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Oct 11, 2017 15:51
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Potato Salad posted:Why am i reading a clinton rape truther i'm inclined to believe juanita broaddrick. the lewinsky stuff is complicated, since the encounters were consensual according to her but the power differential at play makes that not so easy.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:51
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You can separate the actual pro-victim posters from the people just using it to score points in a thread where nobody supports republicans because the latter are acting like Clinton, then-president of the united states coercing an intern into sucking his dick isn't some sort of unethical breach of power and abuse of authority at best.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:51
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Stereotype posted:Yes. Clearly. It is why you are attacking only democrats. Why should I be attacking the GOP in a thread with literally zero GOP supporters? That would be the most pointless endeavor possible.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:52
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Stereotype posted:Yes. Clearly. It is why you are attacking only democrats. Actually, it's because everyone here is well-aware that republicans suck. That's why Obama won so handily in his two elections; because people thought that democrats had someone actually good for once. Republicans being awful is something the vast majority of americans already know. The democrat struggle is to prove that they not only suck marginally less, but are actually worth actively voting for.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:They're both trained lawyers, that's natural diction for them, given that Weinstein has not yet been convicted. This isn't a courtroom and they're not talking ot a judge. "Sexual assault is bad, but I'm not going to directly condemn this serial sexual assaulter until he's convicted in a court of law" isn't really worth issuing a press release over. Angry_Ed posted:Yes you're right only Democrats ever nurtured a relationship with Weinstein. Oh wait, no. Why didn't Donald Trump do something? Because he's misogynistic scum who assaults women on a regular basis and has been caught on tape bragging about it in private. Now why didn't all those Democrats do something? What's their "excuse"? You're the one looking at an abuse by the rich and powerful and trying to make it a team sports thing by claiming we're only allowed to criticize one party for being cozy with serial rapists.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:54
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Neurolimal posted:My biggest issue with people being stubborn on this because republicans are saying it is...so what? Ideally both parties should take any opportunity to call each other out on horrible poo poo, rather than mutually complicit silence. What happened to us being into transparency? Transparency is weakness, honesty is weakness, responsibility is weakness. Instead let us act as suspiciously as possible and lose to a bald used car salesman.
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Oct 11, 2017 15:54
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