|
New Butt Order posted:Most people hated Alpha Protocol's high-pressure, high-risk dialog system. I've never seen these people? The only consistent complaint I've seen the internet across is just that the RPG mechanics of leveling your shooting and stuff sucks, mostly if you don't know to just dump it all in pistols and chain headshots forever.
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 03:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:37 |
|
|
New Butt Order posted:Most people hated Alpha Protocol's high-pressure, high-risk dialog system. These forums (myself included) have a much higher opinion of Obsidian than people with correctly functioning brains. uh what? Nearly every review and poo poo praised that, in fact a lot of them said it was the only really good part of an average cover shooting RPG with a broken skill tree!
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 04:24
|
|
|
I actually went back and looked at reviews to try to back myself and the main complaint related to dialogue was actually that the summaries didn't necessarily match the words/tone of your character's delivery and not what I said at first. My bad. I retract the first statement of that post but fully stand by the second.
New Butt Order fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Oct 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 05:13
|
|
|
New Butt Order posted:I actually went back and looked at reviews to try to back myself and the main complaint related to dialogue was actually that the summaries didn't necessarily match the words/tone of your character's delivery and not what I said at first. My bad. I retract the first statement of that post but fully stand by the second. that's a problem with all dialogue systems that summarise what you're about to say really RPGs never actually adapted to voice acting properly, in the old days when I was but a wee lad you just clicked on the dialogue you wanted and that was that (though I suppose some older school type games still do that today) but when it came to giving you a fully voice acted game, they either left you with a mute main character (like in kotor) or they voice the MC but summarise what you're going to say based on the choice because reading exactly what you're about to say then the MC going through the motions of saying it is awkward and redundant I think it's a design problem that nobody has actually solved well
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 05:35
|
|
|
cat doter posted:I think it's a design problem that nobody has actually solved well Modders did pretty well, a bit of redundancy is better than "What the gently caress, I didn't mean that" like look at this for the Keep Up one.  It's that easy, most of the responses in these games are at most a sentence anyway.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 05:46
|
|
|
it's still a little awkward but clarity is always preferred over some vague 2 word phrase
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 05:50
|
|
|
cat doter posted:I think it's a design problem that nobody has actually solved well Deus Ex: Human Revolution came pretty darn close by having the dialogue wheel initially show general topics, but highlighting one would show exactly what you were about to say by choosing it. Though it certainly also helped that the only times you really needed to consider your options were in the word fights instead of having five minute conversations with every other NPC like in most traditional western RPGs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 06:28
|
|
|
New Butt Order posted:Most people hated Alpha Protocol's high-pressure, high-risk dialog system. These forums (myself included) have a much higher opinion of Obsidian than people with correctly functioning brains. sexpig by night posted:uh what? Nearly every review and poo poo praised that, in fact a lot of them said it was the only really good part of an average cover shooting RPG with a broken skill tree! I like the dialog system, but there were a couple of times where I'd suddenly be given a dialog prompt and you had barely a second to select something, and I'd end up selecting something I didn't mean to pick. It only happened maybe a grand total of two times, but overall, I can understand why'd you be put off that kind of system. If I'm being a little more critical, I found that with most all of characters (with two major exception being Steven Heck and SIE), you can gain or maintain a positive relationship with them by sticking to the 'Professional' stance. That being said, I only ran through the game once, so maybe there's another exception I'm missing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 06:38
|
|
|
Max Wilco posted:I like the dialog system, but there were a couple of times where I'd suddenly be given a dialog prompt and you had barely a second to select something, and I'd end up selecting something I didn't mean to pick. It only happened maybe a grand total of two times, but overall, I can understand why'd you be put off that kind of system. A positive relationship with someone isn’t necessarily a good thing in Alpha Protocol
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 07:49
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:Deus Ex: Human Revolution came pretty darn close by having the dialogue wheel initially show general topics, but highlighting one would show exactly what you were about to say by choosing it. Though it certainly also helped that the only times you really needed to consider your options were in the word fights instead of having five minute conversations with every other NPC like in most traditional western RPGs. I remember when I played Mass Effect, I got to the first city and was lost and talked to the first person I found, like a janitor or some guy just standing around in a hallway. Ten minutes later he'd just finished his life story and I was still lost. I much prefer Human Revolution's style because it only really kicks in for conversations that matter. 90% of the time they don't, and honestly I'd much rather have directions on where to go than an epic tale of tragedy from some schmuck in an alley.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 08:01
|
|
|
Linear Zoetrope posted:Ross Scott did Life is Strange for Game Dungeon. His take is... uh... bad. I felt like I was watching "old man yells at cloud". Yeah, I feel like he's being somewhat unfair, considering that a) The script was written by a French studio and b) a lot of the VAs were I believe relatively new. The fact he apparently didn't even loving bother to finish Episode 1 in the service of his Hot Take (like, seriously if he'd at least finished the loving episode it would have set up a lot of the stuff he apparently was a fan of). Plus apparently because he can't do literally whatever he wants the choices are apparently all immediately bullshit. I like him pulling out Infallible Logic(TM) as to why the correct thing to do is let a teenage girl be murdered. Like, he does realise in adventure games that there's always some element of linearity, right? Yvonmukluk fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Oct 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 10:43
|
|
|
Ross has shown himself to be incredibly pedantic in other videos so this shouldn't come as a surprise.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 10:48
|
|
|
It's just...he loving finished Armed & Delirious but couldn't finish the last part of one episode?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 10:51
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:I like him pulling out Infallible Logic(TM) as to why the correct thing to do is let a teenage girl be murdered. I mean we're talking about LIS here right
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 10:53
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:It's just...he loving finished Armed & Delirious but couldn't finish the last part of one episode? This is the guy who has posted half hour rants on why companies should run MMO servers forever even if the community's dead.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 10:58
|
|
|
Lessail posted:I mean we're talking about LIS here right Yeah, except the Sacrifice Chloe ending only takes place after it's established that saving Chloe has genuine negative unforeseen consequences. Plus she asks you to do it. This was him just deciding sight unseen that letting a person be murdered is the 'right' thing to do.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 11:01
|
|
|
It looks like Idubbbz released a follow-up video to his last Content Cop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VazkMsdcvooYvonmukluk posted:Yeah, except the Sacrifice Chloe ending only takes place after it's established that saving Chloe has genuine negative unforeseen consequences. Plus she asks you to do it. This was him just deciding sight unseen that letting a person be murdered is the 'right' thing to do. I haven't played Life is Strange, and I haven't watched Ross's video yet, but I remember someone saying that the ending was really bad in how it was set-up, where the game establishes a romance, but the ending gives you the option of 'continue romance, but everyone else dies' or 'nothing ever happened'. I don't know if that's what you're referring to or something else.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 11:09
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, I feel like he's being somewhat unfair, considering that a) The script was written by a French studio and b) a lot of the VAs were I believe relatively new. Also, the dialogue, while not perfect, is a bit more accurate than he gives it credit for. I know people around that age in Oregon and while it's exaggerated, my friends who were around that age in 2014 when it came out have a lot of similar mannerisms and word choices. Like, I have friends who went to an art high school, and while they don't, some of the people they knew absolutely talk in that weird, pretentious, overly verbose way some of Max's classmates did. I'm not saying the dialogue is perfect, it can be far from it at times, but his endless nitpicking of the "accuracy" of the dialogue and music choices is... well, he's nitpicking a lot of the wrong things given the age of the characters and the setting. Honestly, his theorizing on people "forgiving" the high school drama and music and such got on my nerves too. Like, I don't just get "past" that stuff to get to the time travel or whatever. The time travel aspect is cool but the real selling point for me was the atmosphere, characters, how much I identified with Max and Chloe, and the queer subtext (or text depending on how you play). It was nice to have a Telltale-style adventure game with an interesting plot, good emotional beats (with some missteps), and some characters I can actually relate to, whether they're younger than me or not. Max Wilco posted:I haven't played Life is Strange, and I haven't watched Ross's video yet, but I remember someone saying that the ending was really bad in how it was set-up, where the game establishes a romance, but the ending gives you the option of 'continue romance, but everyone else dies' or 'nothing ever happened'. I don't know if that's what you're referring to or something else. Yes, I love LiS for many reasons, but I will complain about the ending forever and ever because it's utter garbage. Bae before bay every time. Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Oct 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 11:29
|
|
|
Yeah, LIS’s dialogue is pretty drat accurate and everyone who complained that no teenagers talked like that were like in their 30s.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 11:54
|
|
|
Congrats now you all know how I felt when watching the Deus Ex video. Paul Denton at the start of game: "hey we are policemen, stick with the the prod when facing the NSF" Ross in this voice: "but how caaan I doooo that when laater in the gaaame in the Hong Kong MJ12 facility I'm faced with MIB???1!1"
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 12:29
|
|
|
poparena posted:Two new episode of Nick Knacks! Two great instalments to a wonderful series you have embarked upon!
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 12:29
|
|
|
Max Wilco posted:I haven't played Life is Strange, and I haven't watched Ross's video yet, but I remember someone saying that the ending was really bad in how it was set-up, where the game establishes a romance, but the ending gives you the option of 'continue romance, but everyone else dies' or 'nothing ever happened'. I don't know if that's what you're referring to or something else. Maybe Life is Strange chat should come over to the BTS thread in games, rather than derailing this thread any further.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 12:33
|
|
|
Kunster posted:Congrats now you all know how I felt when watching the Deus Ex video. Pretty much, Ross feels like one of those guys blinded completely by nostalgia in a lot of ways. A lot of his stuff (outside of when he digs up some really obscure but garbage Game Dungeon game) is so much "it's new so it sucks."
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 12:38
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:Well, first off Ross' video only gives (the first half of) episode 1 of the game (and if you're interested, it's free on Steam so you can make your own judgements), but when it comes to the ending, I feel that is an oversimplification. I mean, it's an oversimplification but the full version isn't really that complicated. It turns out that the storm that got teased was directly caused by Max loving about with time, and the "trigger point" for all this is specifically her saving Chloe. Chloe was destined to die and preventing that basically started causing Sci-Fi ISO Standard Time Travel Abuse Consequences™. Chloe asks you undo saving her in order to save the bay, and you can say yes or no. In fact, the "romance" only becomes clear text if you elect to sacrifice her because that's the only scene where the kiss triggers if the other conditions are met. If you do that you get a very long scene showing what happened to everyone, you using your groundhog day foresight to prevent problems you faced over the course of the game from happening, as well as Chloe's funeral. If you say "gently caress that I'm not undoing literally everything I've done in the game", you get a scene of Max and Chloe driving through the ruined town to the opening music and TBH it's presented in a happier light than it probably should be but it's a very brief scene. I could give my opinions on these endings and how they fit in with the overall narrative and how they feel in general, but this isn't really the place for that. Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Oct 15, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 12:45
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, I feel like he's being somewhat unfair, considering that a) The script was written by a French studio and b) a lot of the VAs were I believe relatively new.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 13:09
|
|
|
I honestly think the voice acting in LiS is fine though? The script has some issues, but the performances are pretty solid across the board.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 13:14
|
|
|
I think LIS's acting starts pretty bad but not abysmally bad, and got way better as the episodes went on. I was more just commenting on that specific statement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 13:19
|
|
|
Linear Zoetrope posted:I mean, it's an oversimplification but the full version isn't really that complicated. I feel that Max would be shaped the choices and the experiences in the game, regardless of the ending. Even if everyone else effected is dead/doesn't remember it, she does, and that's what counts. I'd like to here more of your take. Maybe we cant take this to the appropriate thread in games?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 13:22
|
|
|
Mokinokaro posted:Pretty much, The difference is that while you can go to youtube and if you sleep for a bit on watching footage or two at some point you will get some screaming idiot going on how LIS is Tumblr The Videogame, the Deus Ex video is... uniquely bad. "Hey I've been playing this game for nearly 20 years, however I approach this like if I'm 15 and stumbled upon... everything stated on this game after a day or two of playing it." I said this previously, but if I was hearing this from Vinesauce's Joel during a stream, my response would have been "Well, he didn't quite play this before and he's not as used to thinking about this sort of stuff and he's doing it on the fly, I can deal with it" but as far as I know, Ross is someone who puts a lot of work into editing and writing stuff like this.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 15:26
|
|
|
I stopped watching that Ross guy's videos when I saw his Deus Ex Human Revolution one. He was complaining about how having it doesn't make sense that people having augs would get jobs over non augmented people, and listed a bunch of jobs, like a chef. How could augs help someone be a chef??? What a complete lack of imagination
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 17:17
|
|
|
His whole Deus Ex series was kind of embarrassing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
I like Ross and I find whinging about him amusing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 17:44
|
|
|
It's hard for me to listen to a guy complain about games when his voice is incredibly irritating. Glad to know he has other problems.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
watho posted:Everyone who complained that no teenagers talked like that were like in their 30s. Nobody said they never talked like that, it was more that LiS kept pulling out really weirdly dated phrases.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 18:27
|
|
|
But we need to continue the narrative that Ross Scott is a bad person for having outdated opinions on games that I liiiiiiiiike.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 18:39
|
|
|
My only issue with Ross is when he goes into rants about some obscure game three people played is no longer playable because the developers shut down the servers. Like, on paper I get it, but in reality nobody is mourning the loss of some random game that nobody played. Hell, I think one of his reviews about a can't-play-anymore game, he spent most of the review bitching about it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
I gave up on Ross after the Arcade America videos which were like watching some insipid reaction video. Dude had nothing interesting to say about the game or developer in the video and then I realized that was the common theme for all of his videos.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:My only issue with Ross is when he goes into rants about some obscure game three people played is no longer playable because the developers shut down the servers. Like, on paper I get it, but in reality nobody is mourning the loss of some random game that nobody played. Hell, I think one of his reviews about a can't-play-anymore game, he spent most of the review bitching about it. To clarify, Ross' point is (and always has been) that killing ANY game is bad. If you're going to shut down servers, at the very least release the server and/or instructions on how to make one. So that way people who PAID FOR the game can play it. Or future people who want to try it, for play or curiosity or academia or any reason. Your "only three people playing it" comment is disingenuous and, to the best of my knowledge, not based in any-- umm-- facts. Of things that have actually been said. By Ross. With words. The episode you're probably referring to is "Battleforge" found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvcJuBOaQE That's where he laid out his argument against killing games by shutting down servers. The game in question, Battleforge, had significantly more than 3 players left, as addressed in the video. But it didn't matter, because EA didn't want to run the servers anymore. Which is their prerogative. Ross' point is that there should be SOME system in place to keep the game playable-- either a social contract with game makers + players-- or consumer protection acts (some existing ones may actually be applicable, but have never been enforced). If the company doesn't want to or CAN'T keep the servers running, then make them public somehow. Offer them to someone else to host them. Or release binaries for the server. Or open source the code and release it. Or document it well enough to let people reverse-engineer a server (and make that action in itself legal). Or don't require always-on activation servers to begin with, especially for games that don't need it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
lornekates posted:To clarify, Ross' point is (and always has been) that killing ANY game is bad. If you're going to shut down servers, at the very least release the server and/or instructions on how to make one. So that way people who PAID FOR the game can play it. Or future people who want to try it, for play or curiosity or academia or any reason. you're yelling at the hot dog man
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 20:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:37 |
|
|
At best he'll come back with some braindead "BUH IT WERENT POPULAR SO BAD" spew.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2017 20:09
|
|