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LesterGroans posted:Debbie and Holden or Ed and Holden? Well I mean the whole season builds to Ed hugging Holden
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Oct 16, 2017 17:02
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FreudianSlippers posted:"have a cow man!" have cow will man
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Oct 16, 2017 18:14
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Timby posted:While everyone is shocked and appalled (and justifiably so, because this stuff is shocking and appalling), women everywhere are going This kind of statement pisses me off cause, like, rich black people also get away with rape Eat the rich imho
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Oct 16, 2017 18:18
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and I don't blame them one bit for not exactly being impressed by all the sudden outrage and surprise. They've been screaming about this poo poo for years (I'm not talking about Hollywood), and the vast majority of people haven't cared enough to listen. They only care about it when it's a name they recognize.
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Magic Hate Ball posted:have cow will man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWGGgJT3D8Y
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Oct 16, 2017 18:31
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corn in the bible posted:This kind of statement pisses me off cause, like, rich black people also get away with rape I mean, it's both. The society was designed for rich white men, by rich white men. Those architects never intended for there to be rich black men.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:33
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glam rock hamhock posted:Yeah, no one acting offended isn't either a straight out Nazi or a troll or a Nazi that's trolling by pretending not to be a Nazi The trolls are just Nazis that won't admit yet that they're Nazis.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:34
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I know some of y'all are fans. Screaming Females just announced a new album (this is like, a really good week for things I'm into) and I'd like for us to not die in nuclear war before we get that album.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:38
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TrixRabbi posted:The trolls are just Nazis that won't admit yet that they're Nazis. Eh, I think this is a dangerous line of thinking when it's applied to adolescents. It's hard to underestimate adolescent contrarianism for its own sake. Young people now live in a world based on follower counts and upvotes and likes, and tripping over themselves to be edgy and contrarian. It's a rat-race to get in on the ground floor of new things before they become mainstream and need to be reviled. I bet there are a lot of stupid kids who haven't ever stopped to thing about what they actually believe or about issues at all, and are instead just trying to get a rise out of people for attention, We want there to be an option for them to grow out of this phase of being a complete moron. I don't actually know how to present that option, I just think that dismissing trolls as all being nazis is simplifying the completely and utterly hosed up society in which today's youth is growing. Kids who've had social media their entire lives are more alien to us than any foreigner.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:44
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Or they're just nazis.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:45
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Of course some of them are. Maybe you're right. I just see the echo-chambers created by social media and it's horrifying. The echo-chamber of being a WASP a hundred years ago pales in comparison to these online communities. Because not only are they echo-chambers, they have built-in reward and reinforcement systems to reward and signify popularity.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:50
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Saying hosed up things is what kids do hth
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Oct 16, 2017 18:51
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What's to stop a young person who's being a Nazi ironically from becoming a full-blown Nazi? That's exactly what happened with the alt-right. The only way to deal with ironic Nazis is treating them like actual Nazis.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:51
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X-Ray Pecs posted:What's to stop a young person who's being a Nazi ironically from becoming a full-blown Nazi? That's exactly what happened with the alt-right. The only way to deal with ironic Nazis is treating them like actual Nazis. I agree that's totally what happens if you just let them keep being that way. I'm saying that, unlike real nazis, ironic nazis might still be susceptible to realizing they're wrong and bad and changing their minds. If we write them off without trying to change their minds, there's a really good chance they do just become real nazis. edit: But like I said, I don't actually know how to do that. I'm not pretending to have a solution, I'm just making an observation.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:54
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Snak posted:The echo-chamber of being a WASP a hundred years ago pales in comparison to these online communities. No it doesn't. The internet didn't unlock some evil secret to manipulating the human heart, this is the same poo poo it's ever been, just visible.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:22
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If you benefit from white supremacy, don't take steps to end white supremacy, and actively champion the values of white supremacy, yr a loving white supremacist
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Oct 16, 2017 19:32
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Snak posted:Of course some of them are. couple hundred years ago we had slavery and black people wanting to escape was classified as a mental illness
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Oct 16, 2017 19:44
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:No it doesn't. The internet didn't unlock some evil secret to manipulating the human heart, this is the same poo poo it's ever been, just visible. Really? Because now they are connected all across the country and the world. It used to be you had individual neighborhoods that were their own separate, if identical, echo-chambers. Now there are giant ones. edit: ^ yes? And? I'm talking about the size of social echo-chambers that young people are in today. If you were a young person 100 years ago, you knew like 100 people who shared your views and you assumed the rest of the world was like that. Now you know a million. That's all I'm loving saying. So if you want to twist my words into some kind of "facebook is a worse crime against humanity than slavery" I'm not remotely talking about. I'm talking about one specific thing, and making one specific claim about it. Snak fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 19:44
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100 years ago you could still lynch people
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Oct 16, 2017 19:46
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Snak posted:Really? Because now they are connected all across the country and the world. It used to be you had individual neighborhoods that were their own separate, if identical, echo-chambers. Now there are giant ones. It's much easier for a small community to remain insular and stuck in its ways than a large one. A hundred years ago you could assume that everyone shared your opinions and if you only knew 100 people you'd never be challenged on it. Like, if anything this has the exact opposite of the effect you're suggesting, although it's not enough to overcome the basic human tendency towards tribalism.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:55
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:It's much easier for a small community to remain insular and stuck in its ways than a large one. A hundred years ago you could assume that everyone shared your opinions and if you only knew 100 people you'd never be challenged on it. Except these online communities are insular. They don't allow their ideas to be challenged. Anyone who challenges them is just blocked. Since they aren't geographic in nature, you can easily cut out anyone who disagrees. The have the ability to put all the nazis in one giant virtual suburb with no one to challenge them.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:58
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Snak posted:Except these online communities are insular. They don't allow their ideas to be challenged. Anyone who challenges them is just blocked. Since they aren't geographic in nature, you can easily cut out anyone who disagrees. The have the ability to put all the nazis in one giant virtual suburb with no one to challenge them. Like I said, nothing's really changed in this respect. This isn't to downplay the power of mass media in terms of top-down effects but "there basically is no dissent and if there is people keep their mouths shut for fear of their neighbors" to "it's easy to exclude dissenters if you want but dissent can be voiced anonymously and is basically inescapable in mainstream forums" isn't a change towards insularity or conformity.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:58
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Except they are bigger. Which is what I said.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:59
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Snak posted:Except they are bigger. Which is what I said. This might be relevant to their ability to organize but doesn't really make them any better at enculturation. Also you're severely overestimating how united nazis are in general, speaking from experience. They splinter as bad as leftist groups.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:02
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Snak posted:Kids who've had social media their entire lives are more alien to us than any foreigner. Not sure how old you are, I'm 26 and largely since I was at least early double digits been on social media. It's a little different than kids today being given iPads out of the womb, but I'm old enough to remember when 4chan was new and the way sites like Maddox's Best Page in the Universe were shared as edgy and insightful commentary when in actuality it was just reinforcing sexist and racist norms. The problem with the ironic Nazism is that the longer you stay in it the more it becomes earnest. If you get into spats online throwing swatzikas around does it matter if you're just "trolling?" It's the same endgame, which is to proliferate white supremacy and legitimize Nazism in the eyes of the public. Maybe some of them will "grow out of it." But for the time being, if you talk like a Nazi, post like a Nazi, and espouse Nazi beliefs. Well, you just might be a Nazi.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:05
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like do you think the KKK was lacking in "built-in reward and reinforcement systems to reward and signify popularity" when they literally ran entire towns and could help get their own members elected to government positions
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Oct 16, 2017 20:06
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:This might be relevant to their ability to organize but doesn't really make them any better at enculturation. Also you're severely overestimating how united nazis are in general, speaking from experience. They splinter as bad as leftist groups. I know that nazis splinter as bad as leftist groups. My whole point was that these large echo-chambers are available to the stupid and directionless youth, and that every kid that's a moron isn't necisarrily a nazi yet. But whatever. I don't know why I try to say anything. If saying something as simple as "kids are dumb and haven't actually committed to an ideology they are espousing to get up upvotes" immediately leads to me have to qualify what I said as not defending slavery, I'm clearly not cut out for this arena. edit: TrixRabbi posted:Not sure how old you are, I'm 26 and largely since I was at least early double digits been on social media. It's a little different than kids today being given iPads out of the womb, but I'm old enough to remember when 4chan was new and the way sites like Maddox's Best Page in the Universe were shared as edgy and insightful commentary when in actuality it was just reinforcing sexist and racist norms. The problem with the ironic Nazism is that the longer you stay in it the more it becomes earnest. If you get into spats online throwing swatzikas around does it matter if you're just "trolling?" It's the same endgame, which is to proliferate white supremacy and legitimize Nazism in the eyes of the public. Maybe some of them will "grow out of it." But for the time being, if you talk like a Nazi, post like a Nazi, and espouse Nazi beliefs. Well, you just might be a Nazi. Facebook was invented my freshman year of college. Tuxedo Catfish posted:like do you think the KKK was lacking in "built-in reward and reinforcement systems to reward and signify popularity" when they literally ran entire towns and could help get their own members elected to government positions Not at all. But pre-social media, if you lived in a place that was fairly liberal and had no local KKK chapter of influence, if you wanted to join, you had to either start a local chapter of move to get involved. Now you can get involved from home to rebel against your liberal parents. Just like, on your smart phone. And instantly, you're right there in the toxic culture. You're really telling me there's no difference between how finding groups that accepted your views was before social media and the way it is now? Snak fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 20:09
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Snak posted:Not at all. But pre-social media, if you lived in a place that was fairly liberal and had no local KKK chapter of influence, if you wanted to join, you had to either start a local chapter of move to get involved. Now you can get involved from home to rebel against your liberal parents. Just like, on your smart phone. And instantly, you're right there in the toxic culture. You're really telling me there's no difference between how finding groups that accepted your views was before social media and the way it is now? I think the problem comes before that. Little nazis aren't (significantly) coming from the kids of liberal parents rebelling against dad, they're coming from conservative families that are basically a dog whistle away from that ideology to begin with, and attracted to the idea of saying openly what dad thinks but is afraid to say. "Finding groups that accept your views" is the key phrase here. Radicalization is a thing and the internet is one place that it happens but it's a process that draws from groups that are already adjacent, which is to say, the problem is the same problem it's always been: America's full of terrified, racist white folks clinging to whatever power they have.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:21
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All I wanted to say was that maybe some of them weren't beyond hope. gently caress it. Put em all up against the wall. There are too many people anyway.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:23
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Snak posted:All I wanted to say was that maybe some of them weren't beyond hope. I'm not the one being negative about the future here, I think it's better than the picture you're painting. 
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Oct 16, 2017 20:24
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It's okay. I literally don't know anything. You guys are the only people I talk to besides my 2.5 real life friends. And all we do is drink and watch shows and movies.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:26
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wanna meet that half-friend
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Oct 16, 2017 20:28
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Snak posted:Not at all. But pre-social media, if you lived in a place that was fairly liberal and had no local KKK chapter of influence, if you wanted to join, you had to either start a local chapter of move to get involved. Now you can get involved from home to rebel against your liberal parents. Just like, on your smart phone. And instantly, you're right there in the toxic culture. You're really telling me there's no difference between how finding groups that accepted your views was before social media and the way it is now? Pre-social media if you wanted to join a group of aggrieved white dudes you could put on a blindfold and walk fifty paces in any direction.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:28
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Snak posted:It's okay. I literally don't know anything. Are you me? I think you might be me Any ways, unrelated but I can't heads or tails of The Foreigner. The whole thing seemed oddly pointless and not in a way where seeming pointless was the point
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Oct 16, 2017 20:47
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glam rock hamhock posted:Are you me? I think you might be me it was the film equivalent of an airport read. pulpy, fun, and completely forgettable with questionable logic if you think about it for 10 seconds after the movie is over.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:35
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LesterGroans posted:wanna meet that half-friend I believe they prefer to be called "little friends".
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Oct 16, 2017 21:57
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I believe they prefer to be called "little friends". My Little Buddy: Friendship is Midget
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Oct 16, 2017 22:05
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apropos of nothing, hopefully lars von trier's reputation and oeuvre get shipped off to the trash bin after that bjork story manifestly obvious that the cosplaying nazi loves to humiliate women on screen, and bjork's telling of events (and strong implications about the themes underlying Dogville) seals that deal
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Oct 16, 2017 22:11
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Arkane posted:apropos of nothing, hopefully lars von trier's reputation and oeuvre get shipped off to the trash bin after that bjork story When she relayed the story I'm actually not even sure why she bothered to leave out von Trier's name, who else could it be besides him?
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Oct 16, 2017 22:17
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2006 movie marathon idea, theme: "The Revolution, and its Discontents" My Country, My Country x Thomas Sankara: The Upright Man x Joe Building: The Stalin Memorial Lecture x 12:08 East of Bucharest
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Oct 16, 2017 22:26
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Triple Feature Idea: Ikiru ('52) x Synecdoche, New York ('08) x Lucky ('17) Theme: The Meaning of Life, or Lack Thereof
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Oct 16, 2017 22:29
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