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Superior artillery is also the way to make every battle a defensive battle. The AI isn't polite enough to sit still while being fired on from range, they'll always come to you even if you are the attacker
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Oct 16, 2017 13:24
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The Bramble posted:Superior artillery is also the way to make every battle a defensive battle. The AI isn't polite enough to sit still while being fired on from range, they'll always come to you even if you are the attacker I'm pretty sure Total War AI still has the IF SHOT BY ARTILLERY -> ATTACK trigger that ruined Napoleon. Sitting pretty on a hill with more cannons than your opponent? OH NO WE GOT SHOT BY A SIXPOUNDER, CHARGE!  Unrelated: I'm pretty disappointed there are no unique Naggaroth - Cult of Pleasure diplomacy lines. Surely declaring war on my dear old mum warrants more of a response than a boilerplate "I KILL U".
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Oct 16, 2017 13:52
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Geisladisk posted:I'm pretty sure Total War AI still has the IF SHOT BY ARTILLERY -> ATTACK trigger that ruined Napoleon. Sitting pretty on a hill with more cannons than your opponent? OH NO WE GOT SHOT BY A SIXPOUNDER, CHARGE! They barely do lines for generic inter-race diplomacy why would they go the extra mile for interesting conversations?
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Oct 16, 2017 14:02
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Yeah, diplomacy between Teclis and Tyrion just use the same generic rear end in a top hat elf lines they have for anyone else.
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Oct 16, 2017 14:17
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"We will never be kin, but..."
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Oct 16, 2017 14:18
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Fangz posted:Other than artillery, this is kinda the entire point of tarpits. The opponent will reshuffle their units to find good matchups if they can, but not if they are already engaged in melee. Lock their troops in combat with your trash melee units, and then do the flank. If you have anything with Vanguard Deployment like light/archer cav, there's usually a little bit of space behind the enemy deploy zone around the corners where you can drop them too. The AI has trouble reacting to units coming from two different directions and will usually spaz out and make poor placement decisions. For Glade Lords and Hat Elf Princesses specifically and if the enemy doesn't have artillery: If you can get above 200 missile range you can literally fire every single arrow your lord has at an enemy army and they won't ever start approaching you. Since your arrows hit like a junior ballista you can do some pretty hefty damage to monsters or lords before you run your dudes in.
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Oct 16, 2017 14:30
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Jesus Christ I left a DE lord at home while Malekith went to get his home back and I'm more afraid of this lord turning on me than anything else in the game right now.
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Oct 16, 2017 14:44
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JBP posted:Jesus Christ I left a DE lord at home while Malekith went to get his home back and I'm more afraid of this lord turning on me than anything else in the game right now. Assassin's have a skill that increases a generals loyalty while they are embedded with them.
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Oct 16, 2017 14:54
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Ah yeah poo poo I forgot that. Hopefully I can get one in there. It's been 20 turns of political maneuvering and trying to get Malekith more XP but then she gets a boost and has been single handed winning war after war.
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Oct 16, 2017 15:08
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JBP posted:Jesus Christ I left a DE lord at home while Malekith went to get his home back and I'm more afraid of this lord turning on me than anything else in the game right now. An "Elf servant" is a follower you can loot from fighting High elves. When equipped, all Lords in the character's region have a chance to gain loyalty. Region, not Province. Still very powerful. https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Elfservant I've found (at the advice earlier in the thread) that for DE you can boost your income massively by focussing slaves in a province built for it with +income from slave buildings and agents with +income from slaves. Slaves can be hard to come by if you're not constantly at war, but it is worth it to send a fleet out to grab treasure at sea and sack coastal cities in Ulthuan and the Southlands. Give you pirate lord some good followers and skills to increase captives after battle and watch you income soar! https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Overseer https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Slaver Having a few thousand slaves is kind of sad when you realize most provinces can hold ~14000 slaves each! RBA-Wintrow fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 16:08
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Wow, War Hydras seem pretty heavily favored in autresolve. I absentmindedly autoresolved a just-captured settlement because the bar was like a sliver of yellow and figured I didn't want to waste 20 minutes only to lose it anyway. It was only after the battle resolved that I saw what the DE AI stack had: Just a Lord, a Hag, and a Hydra. Given that the basic High Elf garrison gives you 3 units of spearmen and 2 archers, I was kind of surprised they would be so heavily favored. Then again, playing against DE the Hydras have a breath attack that fries basic spearmen pretty good, so it could be that.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:27
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Hydras also are meat sponges with regeneration so they just last forever. I would bet the auto resolve is looking at total health plus regen, which your two archers may not be able to get half way.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:22
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Geisladisk posted:I'm pretty sure Total War AI still has the IF SHOT BY ARTILLERY -> ATTACK trigger that ruined Napoleon. Sitting pretty on a hill with more cannons than your opponent? OH NO WE GOT SHOT BY A SIXPOUNDER, CHARGE! What else is there to do if your opponent outranges and outshoots you? I'm sure the computer could attack more effectively, but sitting still until the human player runs out of ammo sounds boring and might still result in a rout. Regarding Napoleon, anyway. In TWWH they should at least send in flyers or cast some magic.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:27
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Check if they have equal or superior artillery, spread out, stay there. Send out skirmishers. There is no real reason to send the entire army out if they have less artillery than you.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:28
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Panfilo posted:Wow, War Hydras seem pretty heavily favored in autresolve. I absentmindedly autoresolved a just-captured settlement because the bar was like a sliver of yellow and figured I didn't want to waste 20 minutes only to lose it anyway. It was only after the battle resolved that I saw what the DE AI stack had: Just a Lord, a Hag, and a Hydra. Given that the basic High Elf garrison gives you 3 units of spearmen and 2 archers, I was kind of surprised they would be so heavily favored. A hydra would basically smoke that garrison solo. If you add a lord and a hag it's basically a laughable blowout. While spearmen of any elf variety have anti-large written on the tin, they are still t1 units that have 22ish melee attack unbuffed. Garrison spears are fine setting against a cav charge and for holding a line with backup from shards and such, but without lord redline buffs and promotion ranks and magic support they just won't have the melee attack or defense to put damage down on the bigger monsters like Hydras, dragons, and dinosaurs. They aren't like Pheonix Guard/Black Guard/Wildwood rangers that can reliably be a dragon can-opener sight unseen. The best you could hope for is that the spears tie up the Hydra long enough for the darkshards to shoot it to a retreat, but that won't work vs the lord and the hag, both of whom eat blocks of lovely infantry for breakfast and don't have the downside of being large enough for your bows to shoot over your troops.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:06
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Counter-battery fire isn't really a thing in Warhammer. If they have superior artillery they can do a duel, sure, but a canny player can keep their more expensive units out of range while pounding the crap out of their elite units. If you try and do a calculation of whether the AI is doing better out of an artillery duel than the player, then that creates an exploitable mechanic where the player can dance units forwards and backwards to make the AI units confused about whether to commit to the attack or not, shooting them all the while. If you actually do a good job of making AI that hides its units effectively from artillery fire... that'll probably just piss players off. Sending skirmishers out unsupported is suicide. To a first approximation, especially with terrain bonuses relatively small, attacking when being shelled is the right decision. Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 18:15
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The final Vortex battle is hugely cathartic, even if it's a cakewalk. Just slapping fools around and nuking them with impunity. Really wish you got some sort of permanent campaign bonus from winning.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:56
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Deified Data posted:The final Vortex battle is hugely cathartic, even if it's a cakewalk. Just slapping fools around and nuking them with impunity. You totally do. Look at your faction summary or the campaign buffs on the top right, it should show you.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:59
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Barent posted:You totally do. Look at your faction summary or the campaign buffs on the top right, it should show you. Ah, didn't notice. What do you get?
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Oct 16, 2017 19:00
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Deified Data posted:Ah, didn't notice. What do you get? I don't remember all of it, but: -All existing lords and heroes get 5 free rank ups -Newly recruited lords and heroes get +14 rank on recruit -Enemy winds of magic power reserves -50 -Probably something else i'm forgetting It's the same for all factions, unfortunately. I wish it was more powerful and flavorful.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:03
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When people in this thread talk about their AI opponents fielding four to five stacks against them, do they play on Very Hard or Legendary? Because I'm ~120 turns into a Hard Tyrion campaign and I think the most stacks I saw at the same time was three stacks of Skaven from a confederated Queek/Skrolk faction. (I guess the Dark Elves AI probably has more than five stacks running around its continent, but they usually only showed up in pairs to defend cities.)
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Oct 16, 2017 19:05
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I'm really enjoying the High Elf campaign. Spending influence to get lords with amazing traits rules. Loremasters seem really strong, tons of ranged goodness and lots of bonuses on trade.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:09
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Randler posted:When people in this thread talk about their AI opponents fielding four to five stacks against them, do they play on Very Hard or Legendary? Because I'm ~120 turns into a Hard Tyrion campaign and I think the most stacks I saw at the same time was three stacks of Skaven from a confederated Queek/Skrolk faction. (I guess the Dark Elves AI probably has more than five stacks running around its continent, but they usually only showed up in pairs to defend cities.) It's rare you'll fight more than 3 stacks at once, the only scripted time more than 3 appear at once is the last 2 rituals, and that's still largely chance they spawn close together. But the AI does get pretty huge upkeep reductions in VH and even more on Legendary so yeah that's where you'll see multiple stacks. I know in my DE game Mung went loving crazy and had 18 settlements before I was in a position to declare/wipe them out. They had 7 stacks at that point, but werent close enough together to support each other en masse. Which is good, because all of them had a shitload of dogs and horses. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 19:11
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Everyone please install the faster end turn camera mod if you haven't already: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1159014317 It's such an insane improvement in turn speed I couldn't possibly imagine playing without it now. Hell, put it in the op.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:16
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Zhulik posted:Everyone please install the faster end turn camera mod if you haven't already: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1159014317 or just turn off camera movement in the turn options?
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Oct 16, 2017 19:21
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Ammanas posted:or just turn off camera movement in the turn options? I'd like to be able to see some motion sometimes without having the camera take ages to pan over to the next thing to view, though. Turning camera movement off got a lot of my Black Arks "ambushed" because I just didn't check to see if they were in danger before I ended turn and has gotten me ambushed too, since otherwise you can just see armies vanish on the map and have an idea of where they are.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:29
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With the new climate system, is it ever worth taking provinces with bad climates for you? Is it viable to take settlements like that early or is it just to statisfy map painting urges once you're doing your victory lap?
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Oct 16, 2017 20:38
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Ojetor posted:With the new climate system, is it ever worth taking provinces with bad climates for you? Is it viable to take settlements like that early or is it just to statisfy map painting urges once you're doing your victory lap?
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Oct 16, 2017 20:48
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So would Chaos Dwarves be a lot like Dark Elves mechanics wise? Also, are they aligned with the big 4 or do they just kinda do their own thing?
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Oct 16, 2017 21:02
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Amuys posted:So would Chaos Dwarves be a lot like Dark Elves mechanics wise? Also, are they aligned with the big 4 or do they just kinda do their own thing? They have their own Chaos God, Hashut, who's kind of a Moloch analogue. They do their own thing but sometimes sell the warriors of chaos siege weapons and stuff.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:05
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Red climate provinces need a lot of +public order effects. You can make them worth your time and effort, but you'll need to invest heavily into them. An occupying force to beat up rebels periodically is often required. I usually don't bother. The downsides and needed investment in turns aren't worth it unless the province has something I really, really want. A goldmine or strategic location for example. Morathi doesn't get to trade by sea because you need an overland route between your capital and a city with a port. She has no easy access to one. The Ss'ildra Tor faction to her south is the nearest port. But to get it you need to conquer or confederate Ss'ildra Tor and colonize a red climate region between you and Ss'ildra Tor.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:05
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RBA-Wintrow posted:
They always get run over by skaven, lizardmen, and adventurers when I play, which means not waiting to confederate. It is also really close, not sure what about it isn't easily accessible. Worst case scenario you attack the would be allies and have a port by turn 15, maybe 20. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 21:12
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Can someone explain the exact effects of the Skaven one-off plague priest and earthquake engineer, and also the best ways to use them? I sieged a city the AI started a plague in, waited until the plague was over, attacked, and there was no attrition of the enemy garrison. I'm not sure what practical benefit the earthquake gives you that a regular warlock engineer can't already do by damaging enemy walls. Will a settlement hit by a quake actually lose levels?
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Oct 16, 2017 21:13
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RBA-Wintrow posted:Red climate provinces need a lot of +public order effects. You can make them worth your time and effort, but you'll need to invest heavily into them. An occupying force to beat up rebels periodically is often required. It’s only yellow, not red. Take Ss’dra Tor’s province right after taking Vaul’s Anvil province. You’re gonna want to push to Mazda’s mirror pool and gold anyway.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:27
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Unrelatedly, I really like how the various Landmarks are both a lot more prevalent and a lot more powerful than they were in WH1, and hope that's a change they pull back into the combined campaign.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:28
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Ammanas posted:or just turn off camera movement in the turn options? Do you mean the zoom dropdown (one of which is "off") in the per-faction end turn settings, or is there some other set of camera options I'm missing? If it's the former, I already turn off the camera for most factions. However, even if you only have it on for 3-5 factions, it feels like the default glacial camera movement speed when switching between them adds an extra half a minute of waiting every time you hit the end turn button.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:42
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Ravenfood posted:Unrelatedly, I really like how the various Landmarks are both a lot more prevalent and a lot more powerful than they were in WH1, and hope that's a change they pull back into the combined campaign. Some have been datamined. Vampires get a unique building in Mousillon and dwarves get one that buffs gyrocopters somewhere.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:44
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In my High Elf campaign I united all the hostile Ulthuan factions then went right into Canada and started taking all the DE lands (and norsca and pirates) and I never had a problem with public order at all. Though, High Elves seem to be a lot better than the Dark Elves at public order.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:45
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Kainser posted:Some have been datamined. Vampires get a unique building in Mousillon and dwarves get one that buffs gyrocopters somewhere. I'm guessing the latter is in Zhufbar; that Karak is particularly known for technological advances.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:50
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Amuys posted:So would Chaos Dwarves be a lot like Dark Elves mechanics wise? Also, are they aligned with the big 4 or do they just kinda do their own thing? The best analogy would be that Chaos Dwarves would probably be to Regular Dwarves what Wood Elves are to High Elves. At it's core, your chorf warriors are going to be very similar to basic dwarf infantry, but they will diverge rather wildly from there. Whereas Vanilla dwarves do their own fighting, chorfs incorporate a lot of slave regiments to bolster their numbers. You know Greenskin Black Orcs? Chaos Dwarves basically genetically engineered them, did too good of a job and they smartened up, slave revolted, and left to go join the main greenskin hordes. Chorf infantry isn't going to be nearly as robust (or probably even as powerful on a unit-by-unit basis) as regular dwarves, but they make up for it with dirty tricks. Expect Blunderbuss infantry for zany chaos shotguns and dwarf sorcerers who are dipping into dark magic and trying to stave them turning into stone (because dwarf and wizarding are like oil and water normally). Bull Centaurs will be your cavalry and act a lot like a more heavily armored Centigor unit. Low tier you're probably looking at slave irregulars pulled from hobgoblin, orc, and probably human lines. Mid tier will probably be your generic chorfs and bull centaurs and generic artillery. High tier will be crazy daemon-bound war engines that are powerful but also unstable, as well as armored giants, bull daemons made of liquid magma, and things of that nature.
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Oct 16, 2017 22:01
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