Ask Go players about Go (come play Go with us)

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derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

thats because its called 'cgoban' for some reason

# ? Sep 7, 2017 17:38

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# ? May 14, 2024 18:22

mycophobia: May 7, 2008

It's cuz CGoban was originally just a client for IGS instead of the main interface for KGS

# ? Sep 7, 2017 17:48

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

derp posted:

thats because its called 'cgoban' for some reason

Yeah, I downloaded it again and now have 4 different identical copies of it lol

I'm on as 'littleprof'

someone give me permission to enter ITGO pls sirs

empty whippet box fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Sep 7, 2017

# ? Sep 7, 2017 18:00

Xom: Sep 2, 2008; 文化英雄; Fan of Britches

empty whippet box posted:

I'm on as 'littleprof'

someone give me permission to enter ITGO pls sirs

Done!

# ? Sep 8, 2017 02:33

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

I need to play somewhere other than IGS for a while or something, I just had a game where I was ahead by 40 points, and at the very end, I kept passing and the other guy kept making worthless 'fill in' moves worth 0 points. He did it like 8 times, and then the 9th time made a real move and I passed without thinking and he won the game as a result. I really cannot even express how angry and upset this made me, like, shamefully so. But yeah I just need to play somewhere where I can not give a gently caress if I win or lose. When are goons actually on? Nobody is ever in the KGS channel when I look.

# ? Sep 15, 2017 22:09

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

i think thats a good idea. just rotate between igs and tygem and kgs, once you start to care about your rank move to another server

# ? Sep 15, 2017 22:18

Whistling Asshole: Nov 18, 2005

empty whippet box posted:

I need to play somewhere other than IGS for a while or something, I just had a game where I was ahead by 40 points, and at the very end, I kept passing and the other guy kept making worthless 'fill in' moves worth 0 points. He did it like 8 times, and then the 9th time made a real move and I passed without thinking and he won the game as a result. I really cannot even express how angry and upset this made me, like, shamefully so. But yeah I just need to play somewhere where I can not give a gently caress if I win or lose. When are goons actually on? Nobody is ever in the KGS channel when I look.

that definitely still happens on kgs, it's happened to me more than once. people are lovely everywhere

# ? Sep 20, 2017 04:34

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

empty whippet box posted:

just gonna comment as i go through the game -

move 11- what if w had taken f4 here and then cut your stone off? the knight's move was not very secure here, I can't say I know how the variations would have played out but careful, that move looked dangerous to me

15 - w coulda extended down to b2, probably would have at least gotten a ko out of it

move 25 - man, don't try to be too fancy. he induced you to take d15, giving yourself a nice shape to develop, and you went with some weird poo poo instead that left one of your stones out to dry and gave him good shape and territory

43 - it's not that your move here was bad per se but that there were bigger moves to make. white's next move pretty much makes this point for me, you could have threatened that floating group white had on the bottom and taken that entire lower side for yourself and maybe forced him to run to the center.

46 - see what I'm sayin' about that knight's move?

55 - what was your goal here exactly? it's kind of just 'plop a stone down wherever' kinda move for me, it doesn't threaten anything, it's begging to be cut off from the closest black stones to it...pretty much asking for trouble imo. white's response to this more or less proves my point

73 - if i was white here, I'd have cut your rear end so quick at o7

79 - i feel like you are a little loose with your two space jumps, I can't definitely say this was a totally bad one but it definitely made me nervous and didn't seem to have a definite purpose to me

93 - what was the point of this? was it to attack? if so, it didn't do that job well; if to defend, it didn't do that well either except that your opponent graciously didn't simply gut your territory in response to it because he wasn't certain he had eye space (he did)

129 - you could have lived here IMO. instead of d9 followup just flatted out a line underneath by threatening to connect through the holes and then make them eyes

I'm only like 7k so take all this with a grain of salt. I'm sleepy so I'll check out the rest of the game tomorrow

Shadonra posted:

19: You can consider L3 instead to unsettle your opponent's stones, but there's nothing wrong with this
21: L3 instead?
25: D10 is far enough away that you shouldn't play this way
27: Makes your stones heavy and kills aji of the left side stone, very bad
See how your stones aren't surrounding territory up to 31? Your opponent can hop right into the top side, and the left side has become solid points for him.
39: The default move in this kind of situation is double hane, not extend
43: Doesn't defend against anything, and doesn't really pressure White
45: Doesn't pressure white, doesn't defend black, E17 is really big
47: Why not f5?
55: What does this move accomplish?
57 to 71: This sequence serves no purpose for Black except to weaken everything. Try to realize that you're playing sequences like this sooner so you can cut your losses immediately
72: if at q3, black's corner is in big trouble
85: generally useful idea: keep your opponent's groups "one-dimensional". a string-shaped group of stones tends to be in much more danger than a rectangle-shaped group. m10 is a good move.

I haven't had much time for go lately, so I just got around to going through these reviews now. I just wanted to say thanks, and that they were very helpful. With respect to move 55, my thought was it aimed to link the bottom right group with J6, while simultaneously capping O6. But I think you guys are right--it doesn't really do any of those effectively at all. I think sometimes I feel lost when it's time to start looking towards the middle, although maybe I should have waited longer to do that in this game anyways.

Also,

Lyon posted:

If no one beats me to it I'll review tomorrow. Your Haskell (I think?) posts were always interesting.

Thanks!

# ? Sep 20, 2017 07:35

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

VikingofRock posted:

I haven't had much time for go lately, so I just got around to going through these reviews now. I just wanted to say thanks, and that they were very helpful. With respect to move 55, my thought was it aimed to link the bottom right group with J6, while simultaneously capping O6. But I think you guys are right--it doesn't really do any of those effectively at all. I think sometimes I feel lost when it's time to start looking towards the middle, although maybe I should have waited longer to do that in this game anyways.

Also,

Thanks!

I keep losing games because I'm too much of a goddamn cowboy about tenuki'ing when I should make one more move to shore up a shape; I think I can survive another move and then my opponent puts down a stone which, as soon as I see it, I immediately know my shape is dead. I would say most of my losses are like this. I try to keep reminding myself that a stronger shape that is more conclusively alive makes it so that I can' make bolder moves elsewhere on the board. It's hard to have that kind of patience.

# ? Sep 20, 2017 14:50

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

that feeling when you play 10 games in a day and lose 9 of them, demoting twice. :sigh:

I'm gonna drop all the way to 10k on this losing streak, I'm sure of it. That's fine, that's where I belong, it was always absurd for me to ever think I could ever be better than that no matter what I do.

# ? Sep 27, 2017 05:25

Anias: Jun 3, 2010; It really is a lovely hat

empty whippet box posted:

that feeling when you play 10 games in a day and lose 9 of them, demoting twice. I'm gonna drop all the way to 10k on this losing streak, I'm sure of it. That's fine, that's where I belong, it was always absurd for me to ever think I could ever be better than that no matter what I do.

You should stop playing while you are in this negative head space. Go to the park and stare at flowers.

# ? Sep 27, 2017 05:27

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

Cant win them all.

# ? Sep 27, 2017 06:28

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Anias posted:

You should stop playing while you are in this negative head space. Go to the park and stare at flowers.

probably should have taken this advice I guess, but I was just really desperate to win a game. I lost 13 games before it finally found someone bad enough to lose to me, and then it was only by 5 points. Good lord I am loving awful at this game.

# ? Sep 27, 2017 07:29

nrook: Jun 25, 2009; Just let yourself become a worthless person!

Is there a go book about how not to blunder away groups during endgame. Because such a book would be really great for my winrate. (I'm 12k)

gently caress this game sucks. Although it's actually good.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 05:00

Pander: Oct 9, 2007; Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.

nrook posted:

Is there a go book about how not to blunder away groups during endgame. Because such a book would be really great for my winrate. (I'm 12k)

gently caress this game sucks. Although it's actually good.

Blundering away groups? Like, you get groups killed? Or just get reduced severely?

If your groups are getting killed and you would have won if they lived, maybe just focus on taking extra moves when there are no obvious big or sente moves to make better shape or connectivity for your weaker groups.

If you're getting reduced severely, that's a bit harder to solve with half a sentence of armchair wisdom.

I mean, in endgame there really shouldn't be too much in the way of groups being saved/destroyed. That's mid-game play, unless I guess you're REALLY REALLY bad at endgame?

# ? Sep 28, 2017 06:09

Shadonra: Oct 16, 2012

nrook posted:

Is there a go book about how not to blunder away groups during endgame. Because such a book would be really great for my winrate. (I'm 12k)

gently caress this game sucks. Although it's actually good.

it's called pay loving attention in endgame

(if you're already paying attention, you should do some life and death problems. in fact you should do life and death problems anyway. everyone should do life and death problems except park junghwan, who's apparently done literally every life and death problem in every book)

# ? Sep 28, 2017 14:00

impulse 7 effect: Jun 2, 2011

Still have trouble remembering that it's better to win in gote than lose in sente.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 14:42

nrook: Jun 25, 2009; Just let yourself become a worthless person!

Shadonra posted:

it's called pay loving attention in endgame

Yeah, you're right, it's just this. At least now I'll have this memory to carry me forward whenever I drift off during endgame.

# ? Sep 28, 2017 17:29

nrook: Jun 25, 2009; Just let yourself become a worthless person!

Anyone feel like reviewing this game for me?

I think I was ahead at around move 74, but somehow after that it all went downhill.

e: WOW that picture of the game turned out big. and I can't edit it, whoops

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Oct 2, 2017 01:41

Shadonra: Oct 16, 2012

The left side white group is not alive until move 174 - b9 kills. You might not be able to see that, but look at how few points it has - it means you can probably force him to live if you tighten the space, and b9 is the best way to do that. He got to play b10 in endgame, but b9 should have been your sente - the difference is 7 or 8 points, just assuming he lives, and 8 points reverse sente is about as big as a 15 points gote. You lost by about komi.

# ? Oct 2, 2017 13:21

impulse 7 effect: Jun 2, 2011

Shadonra posted:

The left side white group is not alive until move 174 - b9 kills. You might not be able to see that, but look at how few points it has - it means you can probably force him to live if you tighten the space, and b9 is the best way to do that. He got to play b10 in endgame, but b9 should have been your sente - the difference is 7 or 8 points, just assuming he lives, and 8 points reverse sente is about as big as a 15 points gote. You lost by about komi.

Help an old man out - how does B9 kill? I honestly can't see it, even with the double hane ko-starter of A8 :ohdear:

Edit: So even with the descend to A9, white can 'buy' another move by counter-cutting and sacrificing with B10

impulse 7 effect fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Oct 4, 2017

# ? Oct 4, 2017 19:14

nrook: Jun 25, 2009; Just let yourself become a worthless person!

Shadonra posted:

The left side white group is not alive until move 174 - b9 kills. You might not be able to see that, but look at how few points it has - it means you can probably force him to live if you tighten the space, and b9 is the best way to do that. He got to play b10 in endgame, but b9 should have been your sente - the difference is 7 or 8 points, just assuming he lives, and 8 points reverse sente is about as big as a 15 points gote. You lost by about komi.

1. drat.

2. Thanks! This is good to know. You're right that I'm nowhere near being able to see a killing line for Black, but I do think I understand why b9 is sente, at least. I guess the lesson I should take from here is that against a group without much eye space, even if it's alive, I should want to play moves which reduce the eye space, because they're often going to be sente.

# ? Oct 5, 2017 04:58

Shadonra: Oct 16, 2012

impulse 7 effect posted:

Help an old man out - how does B9 kill? I honestly can't see it, even with the double hane ko-starter of A8

Edit: So even with the descend to A9, white can 'buy' another move by counter-cutting and sacrificing with B10

B9 B8 B10 and White has no move to live, that's all.

# ? Oct 5, 2017 14:03

impulse 7 effect: Jun 2, 2011

Shadonra posted:

B9 B8 B10 and White has no move to live, that's all.

W plays A6? B can get an almost 5 shape but can't suicide himself?

The hane of black A3 is not the end of the world because white has the 'mystical corner magic' where he responds with B6.

If b pushes again with A4, white throws in with A2 to activate the corner magic miai

edit. Nope; you're right. Can edit as many times as I like but white is dead

edit2: just in case - how do you kill if W A6 and responds to A3 with C2 to make a small group living in the corner/ko?

impulse 7 effect fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Oct 5, 2017

# ? Oct 5, 2017 15:45

Shadonra: Oct 16, 2012

a3 c2 d2 a4 b5 c5 a8?

# ? Oct 6, 2017 03:39

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

B9 b8 b10 A7 A8 A5 C5 B5 A3 white is dead. I mean it could go a couple other ways but it all ends with 'white is dead' if black takes B9 first

B9 b8 b10 A6 B5 C5 B6 // branch here for variations // B7 A8 A5 A3

// A5 A3

// B7 A8 A3 A5

all end with 'white is dead'

W may be able to get a seki with - B9 B8 B10 B5 A6 A5 but if w goes with B6 instead of A5 white is, again, dead. But hoping for b to make a mistake is pretty much all w has here.

empty whippet box fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Oct 6, 2017

# ? Oct 6, 2017 04:30

Xom: Sep 2, 2008; 文化英雄; Fan of Britches

# ? Oct 6, 2017 08:16

impulse 7 effect: Jun 2, 2011

empty whippet box posted:

B9 b8 b10 A7 A8 A5 C5 B5 A3 white is dead. I mean it could go a couple other ways but it all ends with 'white is dead' if black takes B9 first

B9 b8 b10 A6 B5 C5 B6 // branch here for variations // B7 A8 A5 A3

// A5 A3

// B7 A8 A3 A5

all end with 'white is dead'

W may be able to get a seki with - B9 B8 B10 B5 A6 A5 but if w goes with B6 instead of A5 white is, again, dead. But hoping for b to make a mistake is pretty much all w has here.

And thank you, Shadonra. That hane/C5 reduction of eyespace is just so simply strong. Much appreciated.

# ? Oct 6, 2017 08:28

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Just looked at my game records out of curiosity and I see that I have played just shy of 1,000 games of go so far this year. :woop:

# ? Oct 7, 2017 23:12

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Anyone got a solution for this? I've been staring at it for a couple days and I can't figure it out.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Oct 14, 2017 06:17

Borachon: Jun 15, 2011; Whiskey Powered

empty whippet box posted:

Anyone got a solution for this? I've been staring at it for a couple days and I can't figure it out.

G2/F2/G3/G4/H1?

EDIT: F1 or G1 instead of H1, since H1 forces B to erases the aji of the cutting stone that you still need to capture some B stones, and W loses the capturing race if she forces B takes the cutting stone by playing H1?

Borachon fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Oct 14, 2017

# ? Oct 14, 2017 16:55

Shadonra: Oct 16, 2012

empty whippet box posted:

Anyone got a solution for this? I've been staring at it for a couple days and I can't figure it out.

a2 b1 (without this exchange, Black can give up 2 stones at d2 and monkey jump you to death) then e3 e2 g2 f2 g3 g4 f1

# ? Oct 14, 2017 17:57

Borachon: Jun 15, 2011; Whiskey Powered

Shadonra posted:

a2 b1 (without this exchange, Black can give up 2 stones at d2 and monkey jump you to death) then e3 e2 g2 f2 g3 g4 f1

I obviously left off the e3/e2 exchange from my sequence, which I had assumed. A2/B1 does seem necessary first.

# ? Oct 14, 2017 18:06

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Just got to the last move of the game, and my opponent took a while to pass. I got distracted and forgot I was playing a game and my clock ran out and I lost on time. I was 9 points ahead. :aaa:

# ? Oct 17, 2017 01:43

Lyon: Apr 17, 2003

Ah the old Cho Chikun anti tesuji.

# ? Oct 17, 2017 02:04

takamoron: Mar 27, 2011; practice nonviolence plz

Just got back into playing after a while, slowly learning to play this drat game. I was really proud of this game I just finished. My goals with the game were specifically to think about direction of play and count constantly. I'm black and won by half a point.

http://eidogo.com/#2qKuIGnfT

Move 11 - F17, maybe should be an enclosure like O17 with possible extension around Q10?
Move 13 - Too slow or should've happened earlier?
Move 17 - Allows R14 which isn't good?
Move 28 - This ends a sequence which is okay for both sides?
Move 30 - Not a good response to my 3 space jump?
Move 31 - Thinking I can build the middle
Move 41 - Is this okay?
Move 66 - Too deep?
Move 81 - Greedy, I didn't read out the ladder
Move 83 - H8 is better?
Move 117 - How much sente was actually here?
Move 159 - Managing a bad situation decently?
Move 216 - Should be at L9
Move 222 - K10 is a waste of a move

takamoron fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 17, 2017

# ? Oct 17, 2017 06:37

BitesizedNike: Mar 29, 2008; .flac

Here's a link to some SGFs of Alpha Go Zero's games against various AlphaGo versions and itself.

# ? Oct 18, 2017 18:52

empty whippet box: Jun 9, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Anyone seen The Surrounding Game? Apparently you can get it screened for 100 bucks if you're a student and you get a sweet 9x9 board with it https://www.surroundinggame.com/collections/frontpage/products/official-screening-pack

# ? Oct 24, 2017 03:56

derp: Jan 21, 2010; when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again; Lipstick Apathy

I saw it. It was p good

# ? Oct 24, 2017 04:30

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# ? May 14, 2024 18:22

CaptainEO: Sep 24, 2007; Found Something Great Here

The Surrounding Game is the perfect prequel to the AlphaGo movie

# ? Oct 28, 2017 23:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask Go players about Go (come play Go with us)

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