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SwissCM posted:Turok 3 would be cool if only because it never got a proper PC release at all and it was pretty ambitious in it's own way, hobbled by the hardware it was running on. I remember finding lip synced cutscenes to be particularly impressive on the N64 of all things
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Oct 17, 2017 13:45
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In a perfect world, Turok Rage Wars would have a PC release with fully featured dedicated server support. It's nice to dream.
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Oct 17, 2017 15:27
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Ended up playing a bunch of Halo, currently partway into The Library. I started on Heroic but that quickly became a chore so I knocked it down to Normal. Almost two decades on it's still a good, moreish shooter with some memorable sequences and a host of flaws. Putting aside* my opinions on the two gun limit and regenerating health, here are some random thoughts. -I can definitely see how impressive it must have been back in '01 to see those massive levels, vehicles, and the different factions batting it out. Anyone know if it actually was the first singleplayer FPS with such a grand scale? -Decent variety of enemies and their different behaviour patterns make for entertaining adversaries -Enemies can be bullet sponges, but they have enough stagger that it still feels good to kill 'em and you can crowd control pretty well -Levels are mostly fun to fight in but are ugly to look at. Epic Forerunner ruins just look like poured concrete -There is a shameful amount of geometry re-use, literal copy-and-paste arenas with different monster spawns. This, coupled with your slow movement speed and the amount of backtracking you have to do makes the game a lot longer than it needs to be -God drat you move slow -Weapon balance is odd. The standard assault rifle is hot garbage, but the pistol is surprisingly effective. The only really good Cov weapon is the plasma rifle. Its high ammo pool and zero recoil meant I ended up using the sniper as an anti-Elite hipfire gun. Plasma grenades are so common that they're basically a primary -TTS (Time To Shotgun) is unacceptable -It's a good shotgun tho *Aside: I don't completely hate them, I just hate the fact that near every single FPS had them for years on end with no deviance.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:03
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Has Halo CE been patched, officially or unofficially, to include gamepad support? I haven't played in a long time, but if I did play again, I think I'd want it to feel like I remember
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Oct 17, 2017 17:13
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Mordja posted:-I can definitely see how impressive it must have been back in '01 to see those massive levels, vehicles, and the different factions batting it out. Anyone know if it actually was the first singleplayer FPS with such a grand scale? I don't think it was, Tribes did outdoors with vehicles first and ridiculously huge architecture was a staple of late 90s FPSes like Unreal. It may have been the first to do all of those things at the same time, though. quote:-There is a shameful amount of geometry re-use Oh you ain't seen nothing yet 
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Oct 17, 2017 17:14
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Man, I'd love to be able to log onto Steam, load up Halo or Halo 2, easily connect with my friend 6 hours away, and then just play for hours. This is after having bought the aforementioned games, all patched and updated and ready to go, from Steam itself. That said, I might buy him Borderlands 2: GOTY, because it sort of feels the same, and co-op is a blast.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:17
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haveblue posted:I don't think it was, Tribes did outdoors with vehicles first and ridiculously huge architecture was a staple of late 90s FPSes like Unreal. It may have been the first to do all of those things at the same time, though. Yeah, especially for a singleplayer campaign. Halo was the first to really knock it out of the park integrating stuff like vehicles, interesting friendly AI, and big open spaces. There's nitpicking that can be done about Halo not being technically "first ever" to do various individual features or mechanics, but I feel that's kind of missing the point.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:20
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ToxicFrog posted:- A bug that shoots lightning, and if you find another one, they'll fight to the death to see who gets to keep you Is there some special behaviour that only occurs if you are wielding one at the time?
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Oct 17, 2017 17:29
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I remember before the Xbox launched in the UK, one of the people at the branch of Game I worked at bought one in the US and brought it in. After we played the opening of Halo there was a bit of a pause and the store manager said "Well that makes the PS2 look like a big pile of poo poo then." I mean, it didn't really, but the feeling at the time was very much "gently caress, how did they manage this on a console?" At the time it was pretty staggering.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:30
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Cat Mattress posted:You have to convince Eternal to make a map pack that requires it. Then it'll be supported by PrBoom+ and finally be more than one of the countless standard project that doesn't actually become a standard.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:36
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Fil5000 posted:I remember before the Xbox launched in the UK, one of the people at the branch of Game I worked at bought one in the US and brought it in. After we played the opening of Halo there was a bit of a pause and the store manager said "Well that makes the PS2 look like a big pile of poo poo then." I mean hell, visually it still does make the PS2 look pretty lovely. If there was one thing you could usually rely on, it was any decent multi-platform game that got ported to the Xbox looked best on it due to the much greater graphics processing capability and more RAM to throw around.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:57
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Mordja posted:-Weapon balance is odd. The standard assault rifle is hot garbage, but the pistol is surprisingly effective. The only really good Cov weapon is the plasma rifle. Its high ammo pool and zero recoil meant I ended up using the sniper as an anti-Elite hipfire gun. Plasma grenades are so common that they're basically a primary Real bad opinion here. The rear end rifle is the worst weapon in the game but the plasma rifle is a close second, if not for the stun it would be strictly worse than the plasma pistol (it can fire almost as fast and has the charged shot). And the needler is just great. Quickest way to kill elites if you don't have a rocket/sniper handy and because it chain reacts with dropped grenades, it can take out whole groups. Grenade spam is definitely viable and a good way to play the higher difficulties -- toss one and follow it up and not many enemy groups will tough it out. Grenades are STRONG in Halo 1, they go a long way and do loads of damage over a big area. They get nerfed to poo poo in the sequels so I always like to go nuts with them here.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:00
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skasion posted:Real bad opinion here. The rear end rifle is the worst weapon in the game but the plasma rifle is a close second, if not for the stun it would be strictly worse than the plasma pistol (it can fire almost as fast and has the charged shot). And the needler is just great. Quickest way to kill elites if you don't have a rocket/sniper handy and because it chain reacts with dropped grenades, it can take out whole groups. PR gets faster as you hold down the trigger and seems to knock down elites pretty quickly, which is the baseline I'm using. I must be using the Needler wrong because I've magdumped with the thing and they just seem to shrug it off. Like I said, I am playing on Normal so maybe its tracking becomes more vital on higher difficulties.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:17
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Fil5000 posted:I remember before the Xbox launched in the UK, one of the people at the branch of Game I worked at bought one in the US and brought it in. After we played the opening of Halo there was a bit of a pause and the store manager said "Well that makes the PS2 look like a big pile of poo poo then." Back in these days I was working on an internet café (less café and more coke/pepsi with people playing Q3, UT and CS than anything) and my boss bought a Xbox as soon as it came out in EU (march 2002?). As someone that last touched a console with the SNES, I was really amazed by Halo, and these days I was "proud" of being a PC gamer that didn't touch the PS1 and PS2 at all. When I knew that Halo would have a PC release of course went and purchased it on launch, just to get dissapointed that of course, the game didn't translate well to the speed of PC FPS standards by these days. I don't think Halo was a great game but it was the first console FPS that felt right in a console. Halo is a franchise I'm kind of salty about because while it was perfect for consoles, it brought a lot of negative things to PC FPS. Slower player movement, regenerating health, weapon limits and while Halo was really open, devs started to dumb down maps to corridor shooters (well this isn't purely Halo's fault but more of lazy dev teams). We are still trying to get past some of these lovely features. That doesn't mean that I didn't like any FPS games from early 2000's until now but only a few PC fps from 2002 to 2013 avoided Halo features and made me have some hope. Serious Sam, FEAR, Crysis (the first one!) and so. Years have passed and of course, my 2002 vision of "consoles are lovely" has changed, I play more genres than in these days (being older helps) and now you can have great fps games on consoles that don't have these limitations and play well with a controller like DO4M, Shadow Warrior 1/2, new Wolfenstein tittles, Titanfall 2... etc.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:24
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I'm not sure what's going wrong with the needler but it should only take 7 hits (oh, bungie) to get a big detonation, maybe they're dodging? The projectiles are extremely slow. That said, it's a gimmick weapon anyway so not a big deal.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:27
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^^^Halo 1 doesn't really have gimmick weapons imo, there's only eight in the game and they all have their niche, even if some of the niches are pretty useless on higher difficulties ("low damage automatic with loads of ammo for cleaning up trash" isn't very impressive when the any individual "trash" enemy can focus you down in a couple of seconds). Relatedly I kind of wonder if anyone has modded H1 to have no weapon limit - the small number makes me suspect that when they were designing this as a Mac game they were planning to bind weapons to the numrow. Mordja posted:PR gets faster as you hold down the trigger and seems to knock down elites pretty quickly, which is the baseline I'm using. I must be using the Needler wrong because I've magdumped with the thing and they just seem to shrug it off. Like I said, I am playing on Normal so maybe its tracking becomes more vital on higher difficulties. PP doesn't have automatic fire but if you tap the trigger it will shoot very fast. The PR strips shields in fewer shots than the PP, but is significantly weaker against health, so I think it is generally inferior because the PP can strip shields with a single charged shot anyway. The needler takes a bit of getting used to, needles move and turn slowly and don't track immediately so you need to be at the right range: far enough that the needles don't just overshoot, but not far enough that the enemy has time to dodge or break line of sight. That said, if you can lodge 6 or 7 needles in an enemy it will kill just about anything. skasion fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 18:31
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haveblue posted:I'm not sure what's going wrong with the needler but it should only take 7 hits (oh, bungie) to get a big detonation, maybe they're dodging? The projectiles are extremely slow. The Halo 1 Needler is kind of poo poo and tricky to get used to, Halo 2 and onward they increased the fire rate and I think made the needles faster as well, so it became a much more viable weapon. As said above there's a narrow distance at which the needles track efficiently and it's a matter of finding that range.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:01
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haveblue posted:I don't think it was, Tribes did outdoors with vehicles first and ridiculously huge architecture was a staple of late 90s FPSes like Unreal. It may have been the first to do all of those things at the same time, though. Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri did huge outdoor spaces with lots of (friendly and hostile) NPCs in singleplayer, and was in fact the inspiration for Tribes. You couldn't pilot the vehicles, though -- the closest it came was letting you launch remote-controlled drones from your backpack -- nor could you enter buildings. I suspect Halo was the first FPS to combine huge levels + user-pilotable vehicles; it's certainly the first I can think of offhand. Nostalgamus posted:I just remember all the lightning bugs after the first doing damage instead of being a weapon pickup. Nah, this is just a bit of artistic license on my part. They jump at you and bite a few times and then die. The one you're carrying wiggles around if you have it ready, but it does that randomly sometimes anyways.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:23
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I vaguely recall that the plasma weapons also slow down your turning speed when you're hit by them, though I must wonder how well that plays with mouse turning where you can usually turn on a dime (compared to the already-kinda-slow turning speed analog sticks tend to offer). I'm guessing "not that well".
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Oct 17, 2017 19:45
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Yeah, that's the stun I was referring to. Turn and movement speed are both slowed pretty considerably for players (not sure how this interacts with mouse, I never really played PC multiplayer much), and AI controlled enemies flinch when hit by plasma. This is the one department in which the plasma rifle is straight up better than the pistol, it can basically stunlock enemies to death at close range despite its low damage against health.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:52
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ToxicFrog posted:I suspect Halo was the first FPS to combine huge levels + user-pilotable vehicles; it's certainly the first I can think of offhand. Nah, Tribes did it in 98.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:09
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Pope Guilty posted:Nah, Tribes did it in 98. Again, I'm talking strictly singleplayer here. And no, botmatches don't count.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:28
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Pope Guilty posted:Nah, Tribes did it in 98. First singleplayer FPS. I did mention Tribes in my post.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:31
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Delta Force had huge outdoor levels and was also released in '98, but I don't know if driveable vehicles showed up until the sequels.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:43
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Does something like this not count? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fucTAq3VmbI
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Oct 17, 2017 20:45
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Aha! I just found out that Parkan: Iron Strategy came out in February 2001. And on that note, I guess Battlezone and Battlezone 2 kind of count.BattleMaster posted:Does something like this not count?
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Oct 17, 2017 20:56
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Mordja posted:Aha! I just found out that Parkan: Iron Strategy came out in February 2001. And on that note, I guess Battlezone and Battlezone 2 kind of count. I thought of Battlezone, but it's more of a weird tank sim/RTS hybrid with FPS elements than an FPS per se. If you consider it an FPS it definitely predates Halo to those features, though!
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Oct 17, 2017 21:53
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BattleMaster posted:Does something like this not count? LGR dude may speak badly about those graphics as much as he wants but mid-90s pixelated 3D is soooo my poo poo.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:09
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Negrostrike posted:LGR dude may speak badly about those graphics as much as he wants but mid-90s pixelated 3D is soooo my poo poo. Oh yeah, I love the poo poo out of that era of graphics. Software rendered with 256-colour unfiltered textures, even better if the textures were made from scanned photographs or prerendered 3D source art.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:22
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Mordja posted:Again, I'm talking strictly singleplayer here. And no, botmatches don't count. What about Skynet?
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Oct 18, 2017 00:00
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The game that I always think about when I think of that chunky, gritty 90s 3D aesthetic is Havoc, a rare thing put out by Reality Bytes in '95. It's like Terminal Velocity, but if it was made out of filth and rust and fire. 
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Oct 18, 2017 00:06
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Guillermus posted:I don't think Halo was a great game but it was the first console FPS that felt right in a console. Halo is a franchise I'm kind of salty about because while it was perfect for consoles, it brought a lot of negative things to PC FPS. Slower player movement, regenerating health, weapon limits and while Halo was really open, devs started to dumb down maps to corridor shooters (well this isn't purely Halo's fault but more of lazy dev teams). I don't think Halo really deserves as much blame as it gets for some of its quirks showing up in so much of the genre for the next several years. They were all things that worked because they were designed as part of the whole (move speed makes vehicles more important, health regen keeps the game to a certain pace and rhythm, weapon limits encourage the player to constantly switch out weapons rather than rely on ammo pickups, and the last two also make for better co-op) but many devs afterwards took a dumb cargo cult approach with the thinking that "hmm Halo has health regen and was successful, therefore health regen must be why halo was successful and if we put it in our game it will be successful too!"  And of course those devs almost always avoided stuff like interesting AI, huge open levels, and fun vehicle integration because that would actually take effort on their part. All of those poo poo FPSes that copied low-hanging fruit from Halo were always going to be poo poo. Doom also inspired a tidal wave of garbage shovelware during the 90s but it would similarly be silly to be mad at Doom because of it.
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Oct 18, 2017 02:19
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DoombatINC posted:The game that I always think about when I think of that chunky, gritty 90s 3D aesthetic is Havoc, a rare thing put out by Reality Bytes in '95. It's like Terminal Velocity, but if it was made out of filth and rust and fire. I played a ton of this as a kid, as well as another similar game that was called something like Zone Runners. Racing game with hover cars with similar graphics
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Oct 18, 2017 02:19
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Negrostrike posted:LGR dude may speak badly about those graphics as much as he wants but mid-90s pixelated 3D is soooo my poo poo. If you haven't seen it already, Recoil from 1999 is pretty great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgffQUf3tDs
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Oct 18, 2017 02:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt-HixevAP8 It was Zone Raiders. I had a good time driving around anyway.
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Oct 18, 2017 02:28
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BattleMaster posted:Oh yeah, I love the poo poo out of that era of graphics. Software rendered with 256-colour unfiltered textures, even better if the textures were made from scanned photographs or prerendered 3D source art. Man I love that era of games, too. I think it came at the tail end of that trend but I used to play a *ton* of Microsoft's Urban Assault: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ci-SQvxsBU
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Oct 18, 2017 02:47
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Gobblecoque posted:"hmm Halo has health regen and was successful, therefore health regen must be why halo was successful and if we put it in our game it will be successful too!" The Halo health system is deeper than it looks and a lot of people missed it. You have two separate health bars, a shield that recharges and armor that doesn't, and so do the enemies. Some weapons work better on one, some on the other. And it's a soft sci-fi setting where that sort of thing feels like it belongs. The imitators just gave you the one recharging bar and homogenous weapon collection and all it does is remove health pack hunting from the game and make for jokes about shrugging off bullet wounds by catching your breath.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:00
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Prophet of Nixon posted:What about Skynet? I was wondering about that one, because there are definitely a number of larger levels that aren't really "open world", but are unusually open and free to explore in a way that a lot of contemporary FPS games were not. The one thing I couldn't remember was if you could freely enter and exit your vehicle (specifically the jeep; I'm almost positive you couldn't with the aircraft)--I want to say you could, but I can't say for certain. Cream-of-Plenty fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 03:47
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DoombatINC posted:The game that I always think about when I think of that chunky, gritty 90s 3D aesthetic is Havoc, a rare thing put out by Reality Bytes in '95. It's like Terminal Velocity, but if it was made out of filth and rust and fire. I remember having a demo for Havoc that I would just play over and over again, it was pretty nice.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:45
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Vakal posted:If you haven't seen it already, Recoil from 1999 is pretty great. Huh, apparently it's the same engine that Mechwarrior 3 used.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:41
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