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Sebadoh Gigante posted:That would have undermined the message of the movie about how humanity isn't determined by how one comes into the world. Well obviously I didn't know what the message of the movie was at the halfway point of the movie...
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Oct 17, 2017 06:24
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As long as we're talking about our fan fictions, I saw the short where they mentioned in passing that Niander stopped a famine with genetically engineered food so I made the prediction that the twist would be that hey guess what the entire world is replicants because we've been eating replicant food for so long that our DNA got slowly replaced. I know that's not how DNA works, but I liked the idea because it would have been like an entire world of white supremacists finding out they were part black.
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Oct 17, 2017 06:31
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Steve Yun posted:As long as we're talking about our fan fictions, I saw the short where they mentioned in passing that Niander stopped a famine with genetically engineered food so I made the prediction that the twist would be that hey guess what the entire world is replicants because we've been eating replicant food for so long that our DNA got slowly replaced. I know that's not how DNA works, but I liked the idea because it would have been like an entire world of white supremacists finding out they were part black. What's funny about this is that there seem to be no downsides, biologically, to being a replicant EXCEPT you can't reproduce. You're stronger and tougher than a person, you just have significantly fewer legal rights. So if the world was transformed into replicants by the food, yeah I guess they would go extinct from not being able to have kids, but otherwise they would just all be better off. Like in the Catwoman movie, how the villain's cosmetics product turns the people who use them into super soldiers.
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Oct 17, 2017 06:36
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Sebadoh Gigante posted:Isn't that kind of what "zombie" originally meant? Someone who had been brainwashed/hypnotized and turned into a slave? I mean before the current definition of "reanimated corpse that feasts on the flesh of the living". Like in White Zombie, Bela Lugosi is supposed to be so evil that he tries to use his voodoo ritual on a white person omg.
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Oct 17, 2017 06:42
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Steve Yun posted:As long as we're talking about our fan fictions, I saw the short where they mentioned in passing that Niander stopped a famine with genetically engineered food so I made the prediction that the twist would be that hey guess what the entire world is replicants because we've been eating replicant food for so long that our DNA got slowly replaced. I know that's not how DNA works, but I liked the idea because it would have been like an entire world of white supremacists finding out they were part black. The bioengineered food came from all the Replicants that didn't make it.
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Oct 17, 2017 06:52
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This movie had some A+ hellscapes.
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Oct 17, 2017 07:07
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I would've been happy if this movie were nothing but a Koyaanisqatsi-esque trip through Futureworld.
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Oct 17, 2017 07:32
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Ferrinus posted:This movie had some A+ hellscapes.
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Oct 17, 2017 07:39
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Speculation on Deckard's motivation Was he a part of the resistance/revolution? It seems that he kind of had nothing left to do with the revolution since he lived by himself but when he said "That was the plan" while explaining why they had to hide his daughter, it seems to imply that he aligns with the revolution. Does he believe in the cause or is he in it just for protecting his daughter? Of course it could be a mix but other than his desire to protect his daughter, it seems up for speculation the degree of his commitment to the cause .
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Oct 17, 2017 13:09
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Snak posted:Well obviously I didn't know what the message of the movie was at the halfway point of the movie... I mean it'd go against the message of the first movie too. Raxivace posted:Yeah if you look at early "zombie" movies (Such as White Zombie (Starring Bela Lugosi) and the Jacques Tourneur-directed and Val Lewton-produced I Walked With a Zombie), they were playing off of fears of like, Haitian voodoo rituals and stuff like that being used as mind control, and more specifically that mind control being used on "us" instead of the "other". Is that the real reason most modern zombie movies don't actually call them zombies? IIRC the current definition didn't come about until after Night of the Living Dead, even though they never use the Z-word there either. Who started to redefine the word of it wasn't George Romero?
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Oct 17, 2017 13:11
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The Biggest Jerk posted:Speculation on Deckard's motivation Was he a part of the resistance/revolution? It seems that he kind of had nothing left to do with the revolution since he lived by himself but when he said "That was the plan" while explaining why they had to hide his daughter, it seems to imply that he aligns with the revolution. Does he believe in the cause or is he in it just for protecting his daughter? Of course it could be a mix but other than his desire to protect his daughter, it seems up for speculation the degree of his commitment to the cause . The lady running the rebels straight up says he doesn't care about their revolution. That plus everything Deckard says and does makes it clear he was only interested in protecting his daughter.
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Oct 17, 2017 13:16
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Movie was super good, a lot to unpick and I think it might be the most 'movie about movies' thing I've ever seen. The only things that are bothering me are a few plot holes or things I maybe followed wrong. Like, did Joi just coincidentally call the prostitute that was also an agent the night before K left so she could plant a tracker? Because that seems like a staggering coincidence. Joi is a Wallace product, they keep hammering that home, how is it not feeding information back to Wallace? Was the Pinnochio-I-want-to-be-a-real-girl story being played straight? It just seems so odd. Also, the false memory given to K that led him to the resistance, was the implication that other replicants had been led there by the same memory?
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Oct 17, 2017 13:33
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Vitamin P posted:Movie was super good, a lot to unpick and I think it might be the most 'movie about movies' thing I've ever seen. 1. Joi says she noticed K liked her, so she hired her. 2. Apparently, Joi wasn't feeding data, but the emanator can give location data. Before K got on Wallace's radar, it didn't matter. Once they had to run, Joi told K to destroy a tracking chip in the emanator. Which is why Luv had to go to the LAPD to use the computer there to track K. 3. The false memory was apparently in a lot of replicants because the resistance leader says that they all have that dream of being the born replicant. Goons really are bad at watching movies. edit: Fixed for clarity. Jose Oquendo fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 13:57
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Not to beleaguer the point, but I absolutely loved the movie (and the original is my all time favorite movie). Literally the first red herring was Gosling as officer 'K'. My mind immediately did the math between 'D'eckard and 'R'achael and of course 'K' is exactly in the middle. I suppose this could be symbolic as well but I immediately guessed (wrongly of course) that he was the byproduct of them both.
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Oct 17, 2017 14:10
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I mean, it's not clear they all had the exact memory. After all, K was the first one to go find the horse in real life.
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Oct 17, 2017 14:11
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Snak posted:I mean, it's not clear they all had the exact memory. After all, K was the first one to go find the horse in real life. That was more by luck though. The lead took him to that orphanage. When he got there, he realized it might have been the same place and he turned out to be right. You are right though that it's not clear if they had the same exact memory. There's a lot to this movie and I love that it can spark a lot of discussion.
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Oct 17, 2017 14:17
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Jose Oquendo posted:3. The false memory was apparently in a lot of replicants because the resistance leader says that they all have that dream of being the born replicant. Except that the trail is kicked off with a one-off grave that it's a huge coincidence K finds, the horse it leads to is precious, Badger hadn't seen one like it before and it's worth a ticket off-world that someone would have taken instead of following the trail, and K had to use his Runner skills and resources to follow it himself. There's no way it's the same memory each time because the chain of events just doesn't work. And Ks memory doesn't say he's a born replicant, at all, it just gives him a clue about the case he's working. I'm not bad at watching movies homes the quick 'yeah we all thought that' line implies something that can't actually be correct. The only read I can see that makes sense is that there are lots of created memories that could potentially lead replicants to finding the resistance, using simulacrum to manipulate reality, but that doesn't line up either. How could a girl in a bubble put down a trail of breadcrumbs that runs true in the real world?
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Oct 17, 2017 14:31
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Vitamin P posted:Except that the trail is kicked off with a one-off grave that it's a huge coincidence K finds, the horse it leads to is precious, Badger hadn't seen one like it before and it's worth a ticket off-world that someone would have taken instead of following the trail, and K had to use his Runner skills and resources to follow it himself. There's no way it's the same memory each time because the chain of events just doesn't work. And Ks memory doesn't say he's a born replicant, at all, it just gives him a clue about the case he's working. I'm not bad at watching movies homes the quick 'yeah we all thought that' line implies something that can't actually be correct. I mean, the movie explicitly says that Joi called for the hooker that she noticed he liked, and it specifically shows the degree to which Wallace can tap Joi for information. The movie doesn't bother explaining how replicants find the resistance, so it doesn't matter. But I doubt Stellinne is making hundreds of completely unique memories for millions of replicants so you can assume there is some overlap. I don't think there is anything to indicate she is explicitly aiding the resistance, either. Replicants do not need to successfully find, or even want to find, the horse for them to join a resistance. In fact the entire plan of hiding Stelline would fall apart if hundreds of people were picking through the breadcrumbs all the time. K's specific job role made him uniquely qualified to follow the trail, as seen in the movie when he accesses police records to find out about the birth date and then uses his police badge to get to the area that the horse was kept in.
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Oct 17, 2017 14:52
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Sebadoh Gigante posted:Is that the real reason most modern zombie movies don't actually call them zombies? IIRC the current definition didn't come about until after Night of the Living Dead, even though they never use the Z-word there either. Who started to redefine the word of it wasn't George Romero?
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Oct 17, 2017 15:02
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Halloween Jack posted:Zombies as they typically appear in movies were invented by George Romero. It's a bit plonky for every zombie movie to exist in a world where zombie movies were never made, but more plonky to go "turns out this movie monster that was invented 50 years ago is real!" Unless it's a comedy, of course. That's a little different than saying "Vampire myths are thousands of years old; turns out some of them are true!" Eh, but Zombies are from Hatian folklore... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie#Folk_beliefs quote:Zombies are featured widely in Haitian rural folklore as dead persons physically revived by the act of necromancy of a bokor, a sorcerer or witch. The bokor is opposed by the houngan or priest and the mambo or priestess of the formal voodoo religion. A zombie remains under the control of the bokor as a personal slave, having no will of its own. So, it's exactly like your vampire example. The real reason they're not called zombies most of the time is that it's short-hand for characters not knowing what they are or how to kill them in order to create drama: https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/17603/why-isnt-the-term-zombie-used Huzanko fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 15:39
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Huzanko posted:Eh, but Zombies are from Hatian folklore... Halloween Jack posted:Zombies as they typically appear in movies were invented by George Romero.
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Oct 17, 2017 15:48
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DC Murderverse posted:SALLIE: They'd better have a loving dump truck full of money. That actress got paid a day rate. A few thousand max. I think the script should read more like: AGENT: There's a part in a major Hollywood film that-- SALLIE: Yes, I'm in. - END -
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Oct 17, 2017 15:54
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Snak posted:I mean, it's not clear they all had the exact memory. After all, K was the first one to go find the horse in real life. The resistance has a person planted there who keeps putting a new horse back in the furnace every time a replicant with the memory pulls it out.
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Oct 17, 2017 16:11
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Steve Yun posted:The resistance has a person planted there who keeps putting a new horse back in the furnace every time a replicant with the memory pulls it out. Possible, but doesn't really fit with real wood being super valuable. It did certainly occur to me that they put it back when they find the resistance. I think it's more likely that Ana spread out her childhood memories and lots of replicants have different pieces of her memory. K was the one who had the specific memory of hiding the horse. So sure, it's a lucky coincidence that he is the one who hunts Sapper and has the memory of hiding the horse. But any replicant that had a memory of the horse and saw the date carved on the tree could have made a similar connection. So there are some coincidences, but ultimately that's the "miracle" that allows K to realize his humanity. Are we not spoiler tagging the identity of Rachel's child? We don't seem to have been, but I would certainly start if that's something people want... It would have been a much bigger coincidence for K to have been Rachel's child AND been turned in to a Blade Runner AND been sent to find Sapper. So I was actually really happy that he turned out not to be the child. edit: AdmiralViscen posted:I mean, the movie explicitly says that Joi called for the hooker that she noticed he liked, and it specifically shows the degree to which Wallace can tap Joi for information. This really highlights the similarities between Joi's emanator and a modern smartphone. The fact that Joi was able to notice that K liked Mariette just from the emanator being in K's pocket means that she's always listening, even when she's not being projected. Just like how modern voice activated technology is constantly listening. The fact that the emanator is also being used to track K's location by law enforcement is another obvious parallel. edit2: I don't remember if it appears in the movie, but in the full Baseline Test text found in "The Art and Soul of BLADE RUNNER 2049" the baseline test contain the exchange "Did you buy a present for the person you love?" "Within Cells Interlinked" Which is notable because K buys a present for Joi. I think that it is in the film, because it's immediately followed by "Why don't you say that three times" "Within Cells Interlinked. Within Cells Interlinked. Within Cells Interlinked" Which is in the film. I really need to go see this again. Snak fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 16:38
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I was just jokin' https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yavYMMpzBrA&t=90s
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Oct 17, 2017 17:02
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starkebn posted:I'm the kind of viewer who just goes with the narrative the film is building, I don't bother trying to "work it out" before hand. Most of the time anyway. I thought K was probably the kid, until he wasn't, and I thought it was told well. same
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Oct 17, 2017 17:17
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Sebadoh Gigante posted:I mean it'd go against the message of the first movie too. I mean, if there are both Replicants that can give birth, and humans that can be converted to replicants, it would mean that "replicantism" is entirely a social construct. I don't really think that that would be against the message of either movie, it would just be different. It would essentially be Wallace asserting opposite of the message of the first film, by saying "it doesn't matter where you come from, if you're a replicant, you're a slave". Which is of course, wrong, but he's the villain. It would have been in line with Wallace's pro slavery line that slaves are necessary for progress, but society has lost the stomach for non-artificial slaves. So if he was converting poor people into artificial slaves as a stopgap until he was able to successfully breed replicants, it would be totally in line with his motivation and moral views.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:22
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feedmyleg posted:That actress got paid a day rate. A few thousand max. I think the script should read more like: i actually read an interview with the actress (who is danish, if i remember correctly), and she apparently took the role because she's a big fan of villanueve. it's her first role in hollywood and she does more art and acting and poo poo in Europe. i think that interview was done prior to actually squeezing her out of a plastic bag onto a tarp naked while covered in goop only to be poked, prodded, stabbed, and kissed by creepy Jared Leto. I really hope she got paid more than day rate.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:07
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I just had a thought. When K is in his apartment with the police chief recounting his memory, she responds with "Thats a good one". At first I just assumed she liked it, but could the implication also be she may have heard it before? We know by the end of the movie that many replicants were implanted with that memory, so would it be far-fetched for her to have asked others and experienced it already?
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Oct 18, 2017 00:14
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The only reason against Roger Deakins not getting an Oscar is his unfortunate resemblance to Jimmy Saville.
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Oct 18, 2017 00:27
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Jose Oquendo posted:The lady running the rebels straight up says he doesn't care about their revolution. That plus everything Deckard says and does makes it clear he was only interested in protecting his daughter. Blade Runner 2 was really beautiful, 3rd best sequel this year, but the ending was disappointing. While it's really funny that Deckard is still a pathetic excuse for a man, K shoulda shot him and brought Stelline to her army.
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Oct 18, 2017 00:31
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Black Bones posted:Blade Runner 2 was really beautiful, 3rd best sequel this year, but the ending was disappointing. While it's really funny that Deckard is still a pathetic excuse for a man, K shoulda shot him and brought Stelline to her army. you should write the script for the direct to DVD asylum version so we can all get drunk and laugh at it
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Oct 18, 2017 00:40
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Hey uh maybe I'm misremembering but I thought Stelline said that using real memories in replicants was illegal? So why does K/Joe have her real memory?
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Oct 18, 2017 01:54
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Admiral Bosch posted:Hey uh maybe I'm misremembering but I thought Stelline said that using real memories in replicants was illegal? So why does K/Joe have her real memory? Because she intentionally gave it to him. And most likely many others, like Mariette.
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Oct 18, 2017 01:57
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Admiral Bosch posted:Hey uh maybe I'm misremembering but I thought Stelline said that using real memories in replicants was illegal? So why does K/Joe have her real memory? I took that as "It's illegal to copy someone's memories and sell them". If she's selling her own memories, how could anyone bust her unless she turns herself in? So what she's doing might technically be illegal, but how would she ever be caught?
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Oct 18, 2017 01:59
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She said it was illegal to do so because it is and she didn't mention that she has done it because she's talking to a cop. Also, Mariette doesn't recognize the the horse from an implanted memory. She's enamored with it because "it's from a tree", tying in to her first conversation with K. Nroo fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 02:23
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Inspector Gesicht posted:The only reason against Roger Deakins not getting an Oscar is his unfortunate resemblance to Jimmy Saville. Oof.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:01
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Admiral Bosch posted:Hey uh maybe I'm misremembering but I thought Stelline said that using real memories in replicants was illegal? So why does K/Joe have her real memory? It’s not a real memory as in a memory copied from a person. It is an autobiographical artwork derived from Stelline’s own experience. We’re getting a lot of this plot speculation, which I think is a symptom of how the film’s narrative is vague in a way that isn’t fruitful. There’s no actual mystery to Joseph’s origins; Joseph is rather explicitly a “child of the blackout.” The film uses the metaphor of how all the baby pictures got erased, but the mothers’ tears remain a testament to their loss. Joseph is ‘fake’ simply because he doesn’t have any sort of mother to cry for him. (He doesn’t even have a cruel sweatshop owner as a father-figure; the film’s conceit is that he has nothing.) Of course, Joseph absolutely does have an origin, and parents of a sort - and that’s where the film runs into trouble. What Blade 2 does a rather poor job of expressing is that Joseph’s artificial memories exist to supplant the fact that he was obviously created in a factory, and put together by technicians or whatever. Joseph was packaged, and sold, but everyone simply (though understandably) buys into the illusion and acts as if Joseph just sprang from the aether. This lack of a basis in truth is what generates fake mysteries, and leads to goofy speculation like “maybe it was all a dream, and he never existed before waking up in the car.” Or “maybe his girlfriend is a government agent, part because of a conspiracy,” etc. The only way to redeem this silliness is to assert that Joseph is specifically programmed not to think about the factories - and, moreover, that he cannot think about the fact that he is forbidden the think of them. And, so, the way to challenge this programming is to do exactly that: to think of where things come from, and who is doing the work. Back to the baby pictures: ‘belief’ in the film is fundamentally a belief that there was something there, something that is now missing. The belief comes from seeing the pages torn from the book, and imagining the vital contents that were erased. And so Stelline’s art - poetry - is used to fill in the blank spot for Joseph. There’s little or no ambiguity there. The actual ambiguity is in what Joseph believes (and what the robot rebellion believes). Is it violent poetry, or is it poetic violence? “So what if Plato was right here? What if he did stir up a sensitive nerve with his idea of throwing the poets out of the city? Poets DO lie, poetic mimesis DOES entangle us in the interpassive game of practicing something we do not really believe in, of experiencing emotions we know are not ours: we are affected, although we know it is just a fiction. So what if, far from just mistrusting emotions, Plato was rather disturbed by the weird emotions that are not ours but make us react as if they were ours? [...] The real violence of terrorizing and torturing people needs a poetry that deprives it of its horror and transforms it into a sublime ethical (patriotic) act. [But, on the other hand,] Poetic violence targets and undermines the very sublime greatness of patriotic and other ideological myths, which serve to legitimize real violence.” -Zizek
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Oct 18, 2017 03:04
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Nroo posted:Also, Mariette doesn't recognize the the horse from an implanted memory. She's enamored with it because "it's from a tree", tying in to her first conversation with K. Maybe I misheard. I thought she said "It's from a dream". From a tree does make sense though in the way you're saying.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It’s not a real memory as in a memory copied from a person. It is an autobiographical artwork derived from Stelline’s own experience. It's so much cooler when you like the movies I like.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:45
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