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BigPaddy posted:Had an offer accepted on a house so now the fun begins. Get a list of inspectors from my agent and go through looking them up on Yelp etc... the one at the top of the list i.e. the most recommended one had multiple 1 star reviews where they didn't check the roof correctly and told the new owner to do one. The whole industry seems fairly incestrous. I'd ask neighbors or friends in the area. Very few of the inspectors in my area actually had reviews, and the only one that was "5 star" on Angie's list was notorious for torpedoing deals by finding random mold problems, which had nothing to do with his mold removal business, no sir.
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Oct 17, 2017 14:47
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totalnewbie posted:Hahaha my appraisal came in 20% under my offer. So we'll see what happens, I guess. That's such a huge gap, I don't even know if it's good or bad. Mandalay posted:Homebuying adventures, halfway into a 30 day escrow: My appraisal on my previous house came in 7000 bucks (~4%) under contract price. Seller's agent tried to insist this $7000 was for the 5 year old fridge/stove/washer/dryer. I said great, I didn't want that poo poo anyway, get it out of there and I'll pay the appraisal price. Ended up paying them 3 grand (out of pocket) for the appliances but still 4 grand ahead from the offer price just because I was tired of haggling and the market was pretty tight at the time.
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Oct 17, 2017 16:18
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Spermy Smurf posted:Holy poo poo you are me. Exact same thing happened. I would have thought the 1500 bucks being in your pocket would be automatic but my mom made an offer on a house with $1000 earnest and the offer was accepted and she then backed out because ~72 hours later a house got listed that she liked better. She told her realtor that she didn't care about losing the $1,000 but her realtor told her "nah, gently caress that, you're keeping your grand" and that's exactly what happened so I don't even know what earnest money means anymore really.
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Oct 17, 2017 16:27
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If it is under a week your agent probably hasn't even handed of the earnest money check over cause they are mostly lazy when it comes to doing anything that doesn't pay them a 5 figure commission directly that day.
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Oct 17, 2017 16:38
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scrubs season six posted:My appraisal on my previous house came in 7000 bucks (~4%) under contract price. Seller's agent tried to insist this $7000 was for the 5 year old fridge/stove/washer/dryer. I said great, I didn't want that poo poo anyway, get it out of there and I'll pay the appraisal price. Ended up paying them 3 grand (out of pocket) for the appliances but still 4 grand ahead from the offer price just because I was tired of haggling and the market was pretty tight at the time. In my case, the sellers weren't willing to budge an inch. I was honestly willing to go to another bank to get a new appraisal but even then, I think the new appraisal would have come in at 320-330 tops, so then I'd be 25-35k behind. If they're not willing to budge, even to just say they'll go back down to asking price (my offer was more than asking) then, come on, get real. If they manage to sell it for 350+ then good for them. If they end up selling for 320, I'll be mad. I hope they sell for 280 like the appraisal. Bastards. Going to check out some more houses today. Also, it's somewhat understandable but completely stupid that the appraisal and inspection are on the BUYER to obtain. It should be on the sellers, with the buyers' option to get another inspection or appraisal if they want it.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:37
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totalnewbie posted:Also, it's somewhat understandable but completely stupid that the appraisal and inspection are on the BUYER to obtain. It should be on the sellers, with the buyers' option to get another inspection or appraisal if they want it. Isn’t it the buyer’s lender, rather than the buyer, who chooses to have it appraised and by whom? Or is that different in the US?
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Oct 17, 2017 19:40
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Welp, the loan contingency "deadline" of 17 days past purchase agreement has gone and nobody has said a thing. We haven't removed the conditions, and the selling agent hasn't sent a Notice to Perform. Our bank is telling us that the loan will be underwritten in the next 1-2 days, and they would advise us to remove loan contingency at that time. But apparently that is not the same thing as final loan approval (or actually funding the loan). Should I be worried? Subjunctive posted:Isn’t it the buyer’s lender, rather than the buyer, who chooses to have it appraised and by whom? Or is that different in the US? yes
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Oct 17, 2017 20:11
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Subjunctive posted:Isn’t it the buyer’s lender, rather than the buyer, who chooses to have it appraised and by whom? Or is that different in the US? Oh, sure, it is, but I just mean it's on the buyer to pay for it. I'm just saying it should be on the seller to get it appraised because wouldn't they also have an incentive to know how much it's "worth"? Of course, you need some strong way to keep the appraiser and inspector neutral. Inspector I think is doable to keep neutral, but appraiser would be much more difficult.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:15
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totalnewbie posted:Oh, sure, it is, but I just mean it's on the buyer to pay for it. I'm just saying it should be on the seller to get it appraised because wouldn't they also have an incentive to know how much it's "worth"? The seller's realtor does roughly the same thing an appraiser as part of their normal course of work, that's how they set the price. Your scenario doesn't work because cash purchasers don't need an appraisal.
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Oct 17, 2017 20:57
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scrubs season six posted:I would have thought the 1500 bucks being in your pocket would be automatic but my mom made an offer on a house with $1000 earnest and the offer was accepted and she then backed out because ~72 hours later a house got listed that she liked better. She told her realtor that she didn't care about losing the $1,000 but her realtor told her "nah, gently caress that, you're keeping your grand" and that's exactly what happened so I don't even know what earnest money means anymore really. If it was 3 days after the purchase agreement was accepted then you are almost definitely within the inspection contingency still, so she was able to get the earnest money back for basically any reason at that point ie "I thought the kitchen drawers were dovetail-jointed but it turns out that they're not, sorry I'm pulling out of the agreement now"
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Oct 17, 2017 21:42
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totalnewbie posted:Oh, sure, it is, but I just mean it's on the buyer to pay for it. I'm just saying it should be on the seller to get it appraised because wouldn't they also have an incentive to know how much it's "worth"? It’s worth to the seller what a buyer will pay for it. It’s up to the buyer to figure out how to pay that price, which might involve meeting the terms of a lender, including an appraisal according to their model. I didn’t have a lender when I bought my place, so why should the seller have paid for an appraisal, and by whom?
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Oct 17, 2017 23:01
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totalnewbie posted:In my case, the sellers weren't willing to budge an inch. I was honestly willing to go to another bank to get a new appraisal but even then, I think the new appraisal would have come in at 320-330 tops, so then I'd be 25-35k behind. If they're not willing to budge, even to just say they'll go back down to asking price (my offer was more than asking) then, come on, get real. Yeah 20% is crazy. Even the difference between 280 and 300 is bad, let alone 320. I think a lot of the 4% on my old house was just that the market was jumping so quick, the appraiser was just a bit off. Which is understandable in a market that's hot or heating up. Northern Nevada has gone up like 60% in the last five years. 10-20% off is much less understandable regardless of market.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:30
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QuarkJets posted:If it was 3 days after the purchase agreement was accepted then you are almost definitely within the inspection contingency still, so she was able to get the earnest money back for basically any reason at that point Ah, I hadn't really thought of it that way, you're right. Like when I think of the inspection I think "If there's anything major and they won't fix it then I can get my dough back" but it isn't at all that limited. I'm lucky my buyers didn't back out because of: "Intention in tile at downstairs bathroom in the closet. I do not know what could have caused this. It does appear to be cosmetic at this time." (it was caused by a bottle of CLR tipping over and dripping on the floor for lord knows how long, I'm actually surprised he saw this) or "The cosmetic cover is not installed on the multi-zone duct system control panel in the attic." (it took him longer to type that sentence than it would have taken to just put the cover back on but I understand issues of liability and whatnot if he trips while doing it and rips it off the wall and then falls through the ceiling of the floor below).
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Oct 17, 2017 23:40
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Does an appraiser know the offer price beforehand? Our appraisal came in at exactly our final bid which was fine by us but seemed odd.
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Oct 18, 2017 00:09
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Yeah, they're supposed to review the contract and comment on it in the appraisal report.
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Oct 18, 2017 00:28
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howdoesishotweb posted:Does an appraiser know the offer price beforehand? Our appraisal came in at exactly our final bid which was fine by us but seemed odd. Normally, because they are always in cahoots with the buyers agent.
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Oct 18, 2017 00:44
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howdoesishotweb posted:Does an appraiser know the offer price beforehand? Our appraisal came in at exactly our final bid which was fine by us but seemed odd. I was actually going to ask that but figured it was 100% yes. I think the real potential shadiness probably has to come with brand new constructions which I'm guessing appraise for sale price or more literally 100% of the time.
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Oct 18, 2017 01:30
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Let's be honest here: the best indication of what something is worth is what someone who is actively trying to buy it is willing to pad for said item, not comparing a bunch of similar items that were recently sold in similar locations. I get that's not 100%, but seriously it seems like the most important input into "what is this house worth" is THE CURRENT OFFER FROM A POTENTIAL BUYER OF THAT HOUSE.
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Oct 18, 2017 01:41
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Yeah, I got my place appraised after I bought it and the bank’s appraiser wanted to know purchase price, how long ago, and what changes I’d made. He then walked around counting rooms and declared it worth what I paid. Took 5 mins plus no doubt weeks of poring over comparables.
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Oct 18, 2017 02:07
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Motronic posted:Let's be honest here: the best indication of what something is worth is what someone who is actively trying to buy it is willing to pad for said item, not comparing a bunch of similar items that were recently sold in similar locations. I agree in theory but it only works if the potential buyer is fairly well informed and not an idiot. How much of the population falls into that category is debatable. Like if it's 1-5% then appraisals are a waste of money that's just loving things up for everyone else. If it's 33%, well...
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Oct 18, 2017 02:58
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Subjunctive posted:Took 5 mins plus no doubt weeks of poring over comparables. 
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Oct 18, 2017 02:59
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As in every other line of work, some appraisers are incompetent. Sometimes their employers quickly recognize they're incompetent and replace them, sometimes they don't and they stick around for years. Also sometimes the bank isn't really that enthusiastic about the potential mortgage and decide they want the pot sweetened a bit to make it worth their time. In recent years it's gotten real fun comparing a bank's appraisal of a property to the appraisal of tax assessors representing increasingly desperate-for-cash local governments.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:06
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I was under the impression that appraisers, unless something is egregiously wrong, generally do whatever will move the sale along. The property I bought last year was originally listed at $90k, dropped 87.5 and I offered 83 for it and my offer was accepted. A few weeks later, I get a packet of information from the appraisal company and they determine it's worth $83000, exactly what I offered. I was a bit suspicious about it- I know the appraiser just drove up to the property and said "yeah, it's all good." But I didn't really care- I love this place. Also, this should be obvious and go without saying, but I've actually personally known people who thought this- an appraisal is NOT an appropriate substitute for an inspection. Not on your life! I kid you not- I knew a guy who wanted to save money on a home inspection and justified it by saying "the appraisal came back fine, so I don't need an inspection." Granted, he was moving into a top floor unit in a newly constructed condominium complex so the risk of serious defects was minimal, but still...
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Oct 18, 2017 03:49
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I can't imagine buying a car without first having it thoroughly inspected by a professional I trust, much less a house.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:02
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Though if it's a brand new construction, and a condo to boot, it's probably the safest thing to skip an inspection on if you were to do so. But now I'm looking at a cape cod and wondering if I should buy it - and then move into the basement. The second floor isn't very big and doesn't reeeeaally have any closet space (it's kind of bizarre, actually) but the basement is nice, has a full bath, and a wet bar. The second floor also has a full bath, of course, but crucially has a massive balcony (you could fit a half dozen lawn chairs on it side-by-side laid down flat) so it seems like it would be great to turn it into a recreation area. On the other hand, the idea of buying a house and then moving into the basement is kind of ehhh.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:21
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Eric the Mauve posted:I can't imagine buying a car without first having it thoroughly inspected by a professional I trust, much less a house. Yeah and you should definitely get a home inspector. Hell, get several (general, pest, and plumbing at least, others if the general inspector recommends them) I'm meandering off-topic now but imagine also hiring a guy who just tells you how much he thinks the car is worth, after a price has already been agreed on. This is useful if there's a chance that you're going to offer way too much because you did no research whatsoever, but is it useful otherwise?
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Oct 18, 2017 04:24
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Motronic posted:Let's be honest here: the best indication of what something is worth is what someone who is actively trying to buy it is willing to pad for said item, not comparing a bunch of similar items that were recently sold in similar locations. The incentives and risks for the buyer and the lender are not the same. Navy fed often holds onto the mortgage notes and would be on the hook to resell the home if the buyer stops paying, so they want a more realistic appraisal.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:37
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QuarkJets posted:I'm meandering off-topic now but imagine also hiring a guy who just tells you how much he thinks the car is worth, after a price has already been agreed on. This is useful if there's a chance that you're going to offer way too much because you did no research whatsoever, but is it useful otherwise? Cars are much easier to price because they aren’t effectively all unique, and there’s more activity in the market. It’s really not the same risk to a lender.
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Oct 18, 2017 10:39
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I would use multiple inspectors. Most will do a walk through without a written report and just tell you what they see for much cheaper. The written report is only for negotiating. I find it more useful to just be there with the inspector and have them point things out. (This saves money for sewer scopes, blower door tests, perc tests etc to find out how deep the money pit is) Also you can use a long inspection periods to basically get free options to purchase multiple properties. Good for locking down bank repo houses that may be underpriced and picking the best worst one.
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Oct 18, 2017 15:29
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Motronic posted:Legally correct. Not the situation I want myself fighting, which will take both years and cubic dollars shoveled into the legal system. What's up Doylestown buddy. Lived there for a solid chunk of my childhood, went to Lenape and CBWest  On another note and given some of the recent convo. Wife and I are going to be building a house in an up and coming neighborhood. I have never had a builder build a house for me so it's a new process for me. Question I was mulling over was what if the house doesn't appraise for the contracted purchase price? Is it the same situation as any other house where I come up with the difference or walk? House I am building will be probably 330K all in and comps in the same neighborhood are anywhere from 310-380 depending on the builder since there are like 4 of them in there. Do new homes buy large builders ever not appraise for the purchase price or do they have it down to a science by now? We're not doing stupid poo poo that costs extra money, but adds no residual value or anything.
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Oct 18, 2017 19:22
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thebushcommander posted:What's up Doylestown buddy. Lived there for a solid chunk of my childhood, went to Lenape and CBWest It'll appraise, don't worry about that, especially if you're using the builders mortgage/title/appraisal services. The only time I've heard of any sort of issue is when folks go absolutely nuts at the design center and put really expensive finishes in a house/neighborhood that can't support the price upgrades. Usually when that happens the builders in my area make you put down a big chunk of the cost of the upgrades to offset any issues with the appraisal. If you're not going crazy with level 18 imported Italian marble floors you're probably going to be OK.
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Oct 18, 2017 19:44
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RE: inspection chat, also remember that you can do everything right and still get turbofucked. We had the sewer scoped on our new place before we bought it, found that the line was broken and got two different quotes that both said it would take 10k to fix and would only require digging up the front lawn. We tried to get the sellers to do the work, but in the end just agreed on a 10k credit, so we close and have the plumbers start the work. Now we find out that at some point in the hundred years that the house has existed either the house settled quite a bit (no signs of settling in the inspection), the sewer main heaved up somehow (utility actually came by and scoped it and saw no damage, so even though I think this is likely I'd never be able to prove it), or they just installed it badly in the first place, but our sewer line is somehow running uphill to the main, and in order to fix it they need to cut into the street and retap into the main at a different angle so the sewage can actually run downhill. Additional cost: $44k, not helped by the fact that the city makes you re surface a 20-foot long piece of the entire street after you make a cut, even though the actual digging is basically an 8-foot square right in front of the house, which means the contractors have to hire flaggers and whatnot since the whole street will be under construction, not just our side of it. Moral of the story: don't be me I guess.
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Oct 18, 2017 20:21
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Ouch. 44k really sucks. It's not possible to put in a sump/pump system? My basement bathroom pumps up to the street ~10' above it.
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Oct 18, 2017 20:29
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skipdogg posted:It'll appraise, don't worry about that, especially if you're using the builders mortgage/title/appraisal services. The only time I've heard of any sort of issue is when folks go absolutely nuts at the design center and put really expensive finishes in a house/neighborhood that can't support the price upgrades. Usually when that happens the builders in my area make you put down a big chunk of the cost of the upgrades to offset any issues with the appraisal. If you're not going crazy with level 18 imported Italian marble floors you're probably going to be OK. Ok that's what I was thinking. The entry level finishes are "level 3" out of 5 possible upgrade levels according to the woman we're working with so I don't think I need to do much more than pick colors at this point, of course that will probably change
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Oct 18, 2017 20:40
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scrubs season six posted:Ouch. 44k really sucks. Well, according to my plumbers at least the city won't approve a system like that unless it really was impossible to have a gravity-fed line, and purely from the perspective of the sewer I agree with them, I'd much rather have just a pipe than have a whole pump system which might break and flood my basement with sewage. The actual sewer work is almost nothing, just putting some pipes together in a different way, almost all the cost is coming from having to redo the street.
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Oct 18, 2017 21:57
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Actually cities prefer to have a sewage grinder as it makes the poo poo flow in the sewer better. Can you raise the pipe end that is in your house? I know mine is about 4 feet from the basement ceiling. (I don't have pipes in my basement floor.
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Oct 18, 2017 23:37
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Elephanthead posted:Actually cities prefer to have a sewage grinder as it makes the poo poo flow in the sewer better. Can you raise the pipe end that is in your house? I know mine is about 4 feet from the basement ceiling. (I don't have pipes in my basement floor. Ours is right under the basement floor, but the basement has a full bathroom in it we'd like to keep, not to mention the floor drain, so raising the pipe in the house isn't really an option.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:00
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Hmm I wonder if your pipe is a U now. Maybe only part of it is down hill. I don't think your house could sink enough the run should have been pretty steep unless your house in 3 feet from the sewer.
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Oct 21, 2017 14:56
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LogisticEarth posted:
Eastern PA, best PA. Doylestown is a nice area, I'm just barely in Chester County over by Pottstown/Spring City/Royersford/Limerick area.
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Oct 21, 2017 19:44
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Steampunk Hitler posted:Eastern PA, best PA.
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Oct 22, 2017 03:40
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