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Leading K&P Core package + Invisibote if that core option is not allowed then Gripen + Invisibote I want more Razgriz F-14 fantasies but because Grey Hunter is the reason I gave  I feel that I should honor him by giving him his bote.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:01
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| # ? Jun 12, 2024 11:35 |
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Gripens and Invisiboat
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Oct 18, 2017 03:10
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Mirages and InvisiBoat
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Oct 18, 2017 03:14
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After running some tests of the Mirage vs the Flanker, I'm inclined to change my mind to IVANOV LENIN
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Oct 18, 2017 03:17
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Gripens & Boat
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Oct 18, 2017 03:28
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Mirages: only other core options would be worth taking, but two core options wasn't listed as a possibility. A boat designed to watch the Russian navy is just a drain on our resources: we'd have to protect the drat thing without any ships of our own to actually do it, and that means either cutting into our already precariously low CAP, or staying near lakeside airstrips for the foreseeable future. Seriously, how would we even stop it from getting stolen by pirates in motorboats? It has no weapons, and we have nothing to watch it 24/7.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:55
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Gripens and Invisibote, exactly as Bacarruda proposes.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:02
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Mirages and Invisiboat Sure, the bote isn't useful every theatre, but it's nice to give us long range sweeping. Also GreyHunter.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:49
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thetruegentleman posted:Mirages: only other core options would be worth taking, but two core options wasn't listed as a possibility. We have the Sea Beggars on retainer. They can watch the intelligence ship in dangerous situations.
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Oct 18, 2017 04:59
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Also, with the sudden introduction of the Faction system, anything we can use to get more intel and tell us more about who is thinking of hiring us, why, and how much they can actually pay is a real good thing for our business.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:02
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Yeah the bote is a decent asset to help passively triangulate emitters in tandem with the Saab during missions, but where it really shines is using its ELINT suite to intercept every single phonecall and email sent within a thousand miles on the strategic layer between missions.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:05
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I mean imagine if we'd been able to read Mitsu's mail while we were negotiating for the job with them. Think of all the poo poo that could've saved us.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:07
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pinchofginger posted:IRIS-T has a gimpy range though (15nm), and good planes still die to below-average AAMs if you have to close to within the no-escape zone. Just gonna reiterate this, the IRIS-T is a WVR missile and trying to run pure-WVR will get a ton of goons killed for no real reason as our enemies fling even lovely R-27s or something at us from 3x our engagement range. The Gripen also is a pretty mediocre ground attack jet because it's so small, it just can't lift that much ordnance into the air. Voting Gripens means accepting the Meteor tax as a fact of life because otherwise any plan is total suicide if the enemy has any kind of meaningful fighter presence at all.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:09
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If you're worried about BVR and don't want to pay the tax, you want the Flankers Ivanov are offering. I tried it against the Mirages, the other best tax-free BVR fighter and the Mirages got whooped.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:35
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Quinn has been testing the Mirage vs the various other options, and it's given some food for thought. SARH is a big problem. The Sparrow III and its derivatives (55nm) got hosed up by the shorter range MICAs as they had to evade and break lock. Old Hornets or Tornadoes will be fairly bad in A2A mission environments despite their technical range advantage. They can shoot stuff as long as it doesn't have A2A weapons more modern than 1989. If we fight AMRAAMs or Adders then they're toast. The Flanker performed rather better, as the long-range Alamo gave it enough breathing space to hit then evade despite being SARH. Still took losses, but had a clear advantage over the Mirage wing. ARH missiles vs other ARH missiles (like Mica vs Amraam or Mica vs Adder-A) are usually a mutually annihilative scenario. For example, 16 Bisons with awacs backup managed to kill 10 out of 12 Mirages, but all 16 Bisons got shot down. 8 Bisons with no awacs backup killed 5 out of 12 Mirages before being annihilated, their awful radar being just barely good enough to get them in range to fire. The ~40nm fire-and-forget missiles simply typically shoot at the same time. That also means Tomcats, lacking the AIM-54, would get slaughtered out there. Overall? I find it really hard to justify Mirages or F-16s if they mutually annihilate against anything with a 40nm active radar homing missile. Bisons are going to drop like flies, but aren't so bad that they can't tangle with expected A2A threats. Their problem is being in the right place at the right time. If we want mid-tier A2A then either we go Ivanov or invest in Flanker tooling for the printer. pinchofginger posted:IRIS-T has a gimpy range though (15nm), and good planes still die to below-average AAMs if you have to close to within the no-escape zone. Don't use Gripens on A2A unless you've authorized Meteors, then. And don't let them close to IRIS-T range if they're out of Meteors either. I mean, even without the restriction, we still learned to avoid Gripens trying to use WVR missiles early in the Bering theatre. Honestly, I'm not even sure I'd authorize AMRAAM Bs on Gripens if we could use them (like the Gripen C/D can). We'd need a range advantage before I'd even consider it.
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Oct 18, 2017 05:38
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Mirages + Invisibote
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Oct 18, 2017 05:52
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Gripens + Invisibote Guys, Gripens are our thing and since we got most of them killed last theater, we need new ones. Invisibote then gives us the most interesting new options.
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Oct 18, 2017 06:53
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Xarn posted:Guys, Gripens are our thing and since we got most of them killed last theater, we need new ones. Invisibote then gives us the most interesting new options. For those that keep saying Gripens are 'our thing'; Our Thing is to generate a reasonable return on assets for the share holders of Hired Goons. PMCs don't get attached to one tool; they pick the right hardware for the job from what's at hand. Diluting our investment on assets with no immediate and meaningful way of generating returns is irresponsible, and picking planes knowing we have to pay a premium on ordnance to make them effective violates the duty of care we owe to our investors.
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Oct 18, 2017 07:09
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Gripens have so far served us well, but against modern fighters they're not great. And with our best loadout for them getting way more limited, ti's best to also have other options available.
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Oct 18, 2017 07:38
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TheDemon posted:Gripens and Invisiboat
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Oct 18, 2017 07:58
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Just a reminder that anyone who’s voting for Gripens and the Invisibote hates fun and is morally degenerate.  Tomcats are the future and there’s no stopping it from happening. Also, DESTINY DEMANDS SATISFACTION.
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Oct 18, 2017 08:02
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HereticMIND posted:Just a reminder that anyone who’s voting for Gripens and the Invisibote hates fun and is morally degenerate. They also smell funny and their Mother wears combat boots.
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Oct 18, 2017 08:03
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HereticMIND posted:Tomcats are the future and there’s no stopping it from happening. Also, DESTINY DEMANDS SATISFACTION. Grey's destiny of getting a bote is more important though. I wouldn't even be here without his WITP LP.
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Oct 18, 2017 08:18
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Dreamsicle posted:Grey's destiny of getting a bote is more important though. I wouldn't even be here without his WITP LP. Good for you! We’re not gonna get a bote. Hell, we HAD our chance in the previous theater to get one. But we dawdled and now it’s 40 phathoms deep. No bote for you. I signed on because of Chip Cheezum.
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Oct 18, 2017 08:28
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HereticMIND posted:I signed on because of Chip Cheezum. poo poo, now I need to change my dude's callsign Yooper if/when I get back into a plane change my callsign to Hank the Chog
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Oct 18, 2017 08:33
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I think I'm going with InGripiBote. We definitely need to print up something that can replace our Phantoms as decently capable multirole tho, ie something that can fire something mid- to longrange AA and also drop a guided bomb in a pinch.
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Oct 18, 2017 08:34
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Gripenvisibote aesa... fukken.... radar...
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Oct 18, 2017 08:37
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Again, reminder to all the people voting for the Invisibote that we had a chance to get a bote for free. You didn’t want it then. You flipped flopped. You bickered. You hemmed. You hawed. And now that bote is sunk and it’s all your fault. You should’ve gotten it when you had the chance! So you don’t get this shiny new bote. Sorry, you had your shot and you blew it.
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Oct 18, 2017 08:43
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HereticMIND posted:Again, reminder to all the people voting for the Invisibote that we had a chance to get a bote for free. You didn’t want it then. You flipped flopped. You bickered. You hemmed. You hawed. We got a nuke instead. And planes flown in by the Pope. I'd call that a win.
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Oct 18, 2017 09:32
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wedgekree posted:Gripens have so far served us well, but against modern fighters they're not great. And with our best loadout for them getting way more limited, ti's best to also have other options available. Well, these are the most modern fighters being offered. The Gripen NG is so brand new it literally only just flew a few months ago. Nothing else on offer even comes close. As for needing other options, I totally agree. Thankfully, there are loads of things that we can 3D print from the 1980s. If we want to got Soviet: MiG-31 Foxhound - Mach 3 max speed. 445 nmi combat radius carrying four AA-9 Amos SARH missiles with a 90 nmi range and two IR-guided AA-6 Acrids that can shoot 45nmi. Su-27S Flanker B - no need to buy the new Flankers, we can print perfectly-respectable Flankers of our own. For the war crimes lobby, they have cluster bombs fire and bombs! Also has runway busters, rocket pods and iron bombs . More to the point, it can carry two AA-10 Alamo Cs and two Alamo Ds with a 70nmi range and Alamo As with a 45nmi range. It can carry all that 200 nmi and then stay on CAP for 95 minutes. Oh, and it can do in-flight refueling. If y'all want to stick with the Eurotrash theme Tornado F.3 (or some other Tornado ADV) keeps with our Tornado theme. Plus, it can carry four Sky Flash SARH missiles with a 55 nmi range. And it's got an operational radius of 325 nmi and stay on CAP for 140 minutes. And it can refuel from an old friend, our ex-RAF VC-10 tanker. Or if you want to go with the Americans and their friends F-15D Eagle "Baz" from Israel can carry four AIM-7M Sparrow IIIs with a 55 nmi range. And for a bonus, they have Mavericks and GBU-15 glide bombs, so they can chip in do do ground strike if we ever have another "drive to Luanda" style mission. It's a two-seater, so bonus goon spots! F-15C Eagle is the American version. One seat, "not a pound for air to ground" and a better radar. F/A-18A Hornet Aside from all the cluster bombs, sea mines, and old-school Mavericks it can carry four AIM-7M Sparrow IIIs with a range of 55 nmi. And of course, the one you've all been waiting for...paging power crystals...the F-14B Tomcat. It has Sparrow IIIs, but if Yooper is nice we might even get 4-5 Phoenixes to use with it. And we can blast Kenny Loggins all day long. thetruegentleman posted:Seriously, how would we even stop it from getting stolen by pirates in motorboats? It has no weapons, and we have nothing to watch it 24/7. We can also fit weapons to ships in the editor. A couple of 40mm Bofors guns should do the trick. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 10:04
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I think Bacc is onto a good thing there. Selecting Gripen NG gives us a great platform to build from. We end up with a fantastic RADAR and some potentially expensive "silver bullet" munitions. We then select something reasonable to fill the everyday CAP role. Something cheaper that we can use a little more freely. Bear in mind we are unlikely to be going up against F-22/PAK-FA/whatever, we're heading for less technologically advanced foes and having the AESA + Meteor combo as the ace up our sleeve is brilliant. For everything else there's Flankers/F-15C/D whatever. edit: Actually doesn't the Gripen have a pretty great IRST capability too? edit2: Anyone worried about the boat being defenseless should note that Yooper has said if we want the Dutch Karel Doormans we have them on retainer. Any theatre where the spy boat is useful the KD's will also be useful. slothrop fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 10:38
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Mirage + Invisiboat
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Oct 18, 2017 12:19
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Gripens + Invisibote
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Oct 18, 2017 12:25
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wedgekree posted:We got a nuke instead. And planes flown in by the Pope. I'd call that a win. Worth losing the chance to satisfy the bote lobby for basically nothing? Worth watching our chance to have a floating hospital ship sink like a stone? You had the opportunity to get a bote for free. You blew it. End of story.
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Oct 18, 2017 12:32
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You know, I was hoping the latest triumph of the boat/bote/boʊt/ship lobby on us actually picking up a useful floating asset would at least have made them happy. Nope, recriminations forever!
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Oct 18, 2017 12:37
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HereticMIND posted:Worth losing the chance to satisfy the bote lobby for basically nothing? Worth watching our chance to have a floating hospital ship sink like a stone? I think it speaks to your nous that you consider a superyacht run aground for months on the side of a godforsaken Aleutian island to be the equivilent of perhaps the greatest floating sensor platform ever created
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Oct 18, 2017 12:43
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 Voting will continue a bit longer, but I think we've reached a sufficient majority that I won't have to re-poll. Right now it's assured we'll be using something from K&P. At the moment it's up between Gripens and Mirages. If it's close enough I might re-poll the BFLM and Ivanov folks for plane choice. But if it's not close I'll just call it.
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Oct 18, 2017 12:46
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You’re welcome to try, big boy. You are certainly welcome to come over and try. quote:I think it speaks to your nous that you consider a superyacht run aground for months on the side of a godforsaken Aleutian island to be the equivilent of perhaps the greatest floating sensor platform ever created. We had the opportunity to get a bote for free. You and the rest of the bote lobby didn’t take it. The opportunity slipped us by when the free bote sank. We lost out on getting a free bote because of your ineptitude and sheer hypocrisy. I’m sorry, but free is better than paying out the goddamn nose for a shiny new toy. End of the day: We are buying those drat Tomcats and you WILL say “Thank you, sir” when we get them. HereticMIND fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 12:48
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And what use is a "super yacht"?
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Oct 18, 2017 13:07
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| # ? Jun 12, 2024 11:35 |
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Look I literally had God in the backseat telling me I was good for weapons release. HereticMIND posted:I’m sorry, but free is better than paying out the goddamn nose for a shiny new toy. Not an actual member of the old bote lobby  but there wouldn't have been anything "free" about the insane amount of work we would have had to do to make that scrapheap seaworthy. I honestly think it had more value AS scrapmetal by the point we could have gotten to it.
Groggy nard fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 13:07
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