PYF Historical Fun Fact: (USER LOSETH POSTYNG PRIVILYGES FOR FOUR AND TWENTY HOURS)

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verbal enema: May 23, 2009; onlymarfans.com

That was a cool as post thanks System Metternich

# ? Oct 18, 2017 00:01

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# ? May 14, 2024 03:02

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Lol if you don�t have a manservant named �Enrique� to crank your meatspit.

# ? Oct 18, 2017 01:37

Automatic Retard: Oct 21, 2010; PUT THIS WANKSTAIN ON IGNORE

I hire a French maid twice a week

# ? Oct 18, 2017 05:19

Ellie Crabcakes: Feb 1, 2008; Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Platystemon posted:

Lol if you don�t have a manservant named �Enrique� to crank your meatspit.

How terribly nouveau riche. I have a Kensington who spits on my meatcrank.

# ? Oct 18, 2017 05:21

Keru: Aug 2, 2004; 'n suddenly there was a terrible roar all around us 'n the sky was full of what looked like 'uge bats, all swooping 'n screeching 'n divin' around the ute.

John Big Booty posted:

How terribly nouveau riche. I have a Kensington who spits on my meatcrank.

Whatever cranks your hog.

# ? Oct 18, 2017 06:57

Pookah: Aug 21, 2008; 🪶Caw🪶

System Metternich posted:

Ah, the joys of a simple Georgian/early Victorian English kitchen: Good conversations, good ale, the children are playing, the fire is roaring in the chimney and a small dog is running in a large wheel affixed to the wall. Wait, what?

Meet the “turnspit dog“ (canis vertigus or “dizzy dog“) or “vernepator cur“, a now extinct breed of dogs that nevertheless was a staple of large English kitchens throughout the early modern era. You've probably all seen or read the cliche image of a medieval scullion slowly turning a large piece of meat over an open fire as to prepare it for the feast. Well, this was dull and repetitive work and probably not very popular with whoever had to do it, so the 16th century (the dogs were first mentioned in 1576 as “turnespetes“, but they may well have been employed first at an even earlier date) saw an innovation that would revolutionise the kitchen: a dog, running in a wheel and thereby turning the meat - well, not automatically, but close enough. The wheels were put far away from the fire as for the dogs not to overheat, and they would also work in shifts - turning spits all day was exhausting, and so most every kitchen would keep at least two turnspits to relieve each other. Extant sources of the time even tell us that the dogs would know when their time was up and would leave their wheel as if on cue for the other one to take over. They also doubled as foot warmers, and there's the nice anecdote of the Bishop of Gloucester once giving a sermon in Bath and saying "It was then that Ezekiel saw the wheel...", when a couple of foot-warming turnspits among the audience would hear the last word and immediately run for the door, although I cannot say whether they wanted to jump into the wheel right away or tried to get the gently caress out of Dodge instead.

The usage of turnspit dogs wasn't limited to the UK, though; we know of several large kitchens in the US where they were employed as well. Benjamin Franklin's Philadelphia Gazette had advertisements for both dogs and wheels, and their bad treatment by NYC hotel owners in the 19th century was one of the main reasons for the formation of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

The advent of automated roast spit turners, so-called “clock jacks“ or “roasting jacks“ in the 19th century would eventually lead to the breed's disappearance. By 1750 they were ubiquitous, by 1850 only poor people still had them and by 1900 they were effectively extinct, although Queen Victoria would adopt unemployed turnspits as pets.

The short-legged breed died out that quickly because most people saw them as nothing more than tools, and many sources take note of how ugly they were and that they tended to have a “morose disposition“ as well. You can be the judge of that - above you can see “Whiskey“, the only taxidermied example of a turnspit dog in existence, displayed at the Abergavenny Museum in Wales. It's not the best example of taxidermy, either. Personally I think it looks cute.

I'm no expert in dogs, so I'll have to rely on the experts who tell me that the turnspit was either a kind of Glen of Imaal Terrier or Welsh Corgi, so it may well be that the closest living relatives of the lowly wheel-running dog now are the Queen's favourite pet.

As an aside to this very excellent and informative post, my grandfather is credited with saving the Glen of Imaal terrier from extinction in the 1950's. They are nice dogs :3:

Pookah has a new favorite as of 08:22 on Oct 18, 2017

# ? Oct 18, 2017 08:12

Khazar-khum: Oct 22, 2008; Cat Army
2nd Battalion

Pookah posted:

As an aside to this very excellent and informative post, my grandfather is credited with saving the Glen of Imaal terrier from extinction in the 1950's. They are nice dogs

Adorable!

Up until the 20th C, animals were expected to earn their keep. That's still true in much of the Third World. Even the earliest of animal fairs and shows were searching for 'perfect' specimens who had the correct build for doing a task. Every horse, dog, sheep, swine or cattle rulebook I've seen insists the animal be judged by its ability to do the task first, and all other attributes later. Yes, even that one. That one too. Dogs have actually come a long way from 1970s, when they were even more extreme than now.

# ? Oct 18, 2017 10:22

pidan: Nov 6, 2012

Khazar-khum posted:

Adorable!

Up until the 20th C, animals were expected to earn their keep. That's still true in much of the Third World. Even the earliest of animal fairs and shows were searching for 'perfect' specimens who had the correct build for doing a task. Every horse, dog, sheep, swine or cattle rulebook I've seen insists the animal be judged by its ability to do the task first, and all other attributes later. Yes, even that one. That one too. Dogs have actually come a long way from 1970s, when they were even more extreme than now.

To be fair for many animals their task was "be decorative" or "be fun to play with". Though the examples I can think of (pugs, chihuahuas, Pekinese dogs, fancy ducks and chickens) were all first developed outside the western world.

pidan has a new favorite as of 10:50 on Oct 18, 2017

# ? Oct 18, 2017 10:42

System Metternich: Feb 28, 2010; But what did he mean by that?

I did some additional research and found out that the use of turnspits wasn't limited to the UK and the US, but they are at the very least found in Germany/Austria and France as well. An 1815 Viennese journal reports that "until recently" two dogs were in use at the Lilienfeld monastery, while the manorial kitchen in Frankstadt (probably today's Nov� Mal�n in north-eastern Czechia) still employed some. The article tells us of two dogs who were so good at their job that they smelled when the roast was ready and gave the cook notice by barking. Apparently sometimes dogs were also used in the smithy to work the bellows. Another encyclopedia entry from 1791 claims that most turnspits were actually found in France, while Dutch dogs were sometimes used to churn butter. An 1859 article in the Atlantic reports that there was at least one "old Dutch-Yankee farmer, in a remote and very rural district" who still had his dog run the dairy wheel. In the same article the author also talks about the turnspit's descendants, though he obviously is not a fan: " I have alluded to his alleged descendants, as pointed out to my observation in boyhood; but they were an effete and degenerate race, purposeless, and wallowing much with the pigs, whom their grandsires would have recognized only to roast." :drat:

Finally have some anecdotes related to the turnspit:

The Book of Days. A Miscellany of Popular Antiquities, Vol. 1 (1863), p.490-491 posted:

[T]wo turnspits were employed in the kitchen of the Duc de Lianfort at Paris, taking their turns every other day to go into the wheel. One of them, in a fit of laziness, hid itself on a day that it should have worked, so the other was forced to go into the wheel instead. When the meat was roasted, the one that had been compelled to work out of its turn began to bark and wag its tail till it induced the scullions to follow it; then leading them to a garret, and dislodging the skulker from beneath a bed, it attacked and killed its too lazy fellow-worker.

A somewhat similar circumstance occurred at the Jesuits' College of La Fl�che. One day, the cook, having prepared the meat for roasting, looked for the dog whose turn it was to work the wheel for that day; but not being able to find it, he attempted to employ the one whose turn it was to be off duty. The dog resisted, bit the cook, and ran away. The man, with whom the o a particular favourite, was much astonished at its ferocity; and the wound being severe and bleeding profusely, he went to the surgeon of the College to have it dressed. In the meantime the dog ran into the garden, found the one whose turn it was to work the spit for that day, and drove it into the kitchen; where the deserter, seeing no opportunity of shirking its day's labour, went into the wheel of its own accord, and began to work.

Turnspits frequently figure in the old collections of anecdotes. For instance, it is said that the captain of a ship of war, stationed in the port of Bristol for its protection in the last century, found that, on account of some political bias, the inhabitants did not receive him with their accustomed hospitality. So, to punish them, he sent his men ashore one night, with orders to steal all the turnspit dogs they could lay their hands upon. The dogs being conveyed on board the ship, and snugly stowed away in the hold, consternation reigned in the kitchens and diningrooms of the Bristol merchants; and roast meat rose to a premium during the few days the dogs were confined in their floating prison. The release of the turnspits was duly celebrated by many dinners to the captain and officers.

# ? Oct 18, 2017 12:32

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

pidan posted:

To be fair for many animals their task was "be decorative" or "be fun to play with". Though the examples I can think of (pugs, chihuahuas, Pekinese dogs, fancy ducks and chickens) were all first developed outside the western world.

Not saying they don't also fill the "toy dog" function, but Chihuahuas were also rat catching dogs. Their small frame lets them follow vermin into their dens.

And any dog breed that was bred to kill is likely still very good at that job. I had a terrier as a kid and he was bringing a fresh possum or squirrel to the back door every other month with a dopey dog grin and wagging tail. Which was even more impressive after he had a stroke and he only had full use of three legs (his front right leg was permanently paralyzed and stuck out fully extended).

# ? Oct 18, 2017 18:46

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

InediblePenguin posted:

ok listen, I am aware that historically "naked" often just meant "not in a state of full formal dress worthy of being shown in public," such that a man without his coat on could be so described even with his shirt and trousers-equivalents on, but even so I am puzzled as to how this dude was naked enough to wash his cock in his wine glass in full view of god and everyone, but still dressed enough that THEN he pulled down his breeches

This was a while ago, but

Back in the 1600s, "pants" weren't the garment we know today; they were either two completely separate pant legs (this is why it's "a pair of pants" today), or two legs joined at the back but not at the front. The idea of button-up flies was still a century away. This meant that if you needed to piss (or wash your dick in a wineglass) you could just whip off your codpiece and go for it without taking your pants off, but you'd still need to drop trou to "excrementize".

# ? Oct 19, 2017 03:19

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

ToxicFrog posted:

This was a while ago, but

Back in the 1600s, "pants" weren't the garment we know today; they were either two completely separate pant legs (this is why it's "a pair of pants" today), or two legs joined at the back but not at the front. The idea of button-up flies was still a century away. This meant that if you needed to piss (or wash your dick in a wineglass) you could just whip off your codpiece and go for it without taking your pants off, but you'd still need to drop trou to "excrementize".

And people say history is boring. :allears:

# ? Oct 19, 2017 09:43

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

And because the way people are the codpieces became bigger and bigger. Both because, obviously, it implied that the wearer had a big dick and because it was a handy way to hide your syphilis.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 11:17

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

ToxicFrog posted:

This was a while ago, but

Back in the 1600s

Yes, it was :haw:

# ? Oct 19, 2017 15:16

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

In archaeological circles these pendants has been the source of some controversy:

They were believed depict Thor's hammer but critics has claimed that it doesn't look enough like a hammer to be one. But recently a pendant was unearthed that had the inscription "this is a hammer" which more or less settled the argument.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 15:47

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

Alhazred posted:

In archaeological circles these pendants has been the source of some controversy:

They were believed depict Thor's hammer but critics has claimed that it doesn't look enough like a hammer to be one. But recently a pendant was unearthed that had the inscription "this is a hammer" which more or less settled the argument.

Downright disrespectful to offer your gods something so badly made that you have to write down what it's supposed to be.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 15:56

xthetenth: Dec 30, 2012; Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Alhazred posted:

And because the way people are the codpieces became bigger and bigger. Both because, obviously, it implied that the wearer had a big dick and because it was a handy way to hide your syphilis.

They're also a useful place to put your money if you're a mercenary.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 16:37

Canemacar: Mar 8, 2008

xthetenth posted:

They're also a useful place to put your money if you're a mercenary.

*Grabs crotch*

I got your money right here.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 16:46

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Alhazred posted:

In archaeological circles these pendants has been the source of some controversy:

They were believed depict Thor's hammer but critics has claimed that it doesn't look enough like a hammer to be one. But recently a pendant was unearthed that had the inscription "this is a hammer" which more or less settled the argument.

To be fair...the story behind Thor's Hammer was that it wasn't exactly well made. Quite the opposite: the dwarves hosed up them loving up ended up making it awesome due to some fluke.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 16:49

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Alkydere posted:

To be fair...the story behind Thor's Hammer was that it wasn't exactly well made. Quite the opposite: the dwarves hosed up them loving up ended up making it awesome due to some fluke.

I thought it was that they hosed up (or rather were hosed up by Loki in disguise), but they were such awesome craftsmen that it still turned out to be something useful despite the upfuckery.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 17:25

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I thought it was that they hosed up (or rather were hosed up by Loki in disguise), but they were such awesome craftsmen that it still turned out to be something useful despite the upfuckery.

Yeah, Loki made a bet with the dwarves that they couldn't make something that was better than Odin's spear. When Loki realized that the dwarves were going to succeed he turned himself into a fly and tried to bother the dwarves so much that they failed. The dwarves still won the bet because Mj�lner was pretty awesome despite being so short it could be wielded by one hand and then claimed Loki's head as reward. Loki kept his head because of a technicality (he claimed that the dwarves could not get his head without cutting his neck and the neck was not part of the clam), but the dwarves got to sew Loki's mouth shut as a consolation prize and also because the gods was probably tired of Loki's bullshit by then.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 18:04

Technocrat: Jan 30, 2011; I always finish what I sta

Back in 1989, at the tail end of the Cold War, can you guess who had the world's seventh-largest submarine fleet? If you don't already know, it's probably not someone who'd be among your first guesses - it was Pepsi.

How did this happen? Had the cola wars reached DEFCON 1? Well, back in the days of the USSR, Pepsi had managed to secure quite a coup by becoming the sole supplier of imported cola drinks in the Soviet Union, since the Olympics in 1980 (which, having been boycotted by the USA, was a bit of an own goal publicity-wise). Anyhow, the way the USSR did business meant that Pepsi couldn't just sell the drinks, and take the roubles out of the country - they had to receive payment in Russian product - initially, mostly vodka, which is a fair enough trade for Pepsi. However, there was only so much vodka that they could sell in the USA, so opted to diversify their portfolio a bit when it came to goods received from Russia. Amongst the various things they took as payment was shipping, including 17 submarines, a cruiser, a frigate and a destroyer, that they then passed on to a company in Sweden for scrap recycling. Sure, they eventually disposed of them, but for the few days they had them, Pepsi possessed the world's seventh largest fleet of submarines.

The president of Pepsi, Donald Kendall, told the National Security Adviser of USA: "We are disarming the USSR faster than you".

# ? Oct 19, 2017 18:35

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Technocrat posted:

The president of Pepsi, Donald Kendall, told the National Security Adviser of USA: "We are disarming the USSR faster than you".

# ? Oct 19, 2017 19:08

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

Alhazred posted:

And because the way people are the codpieces became bigger and bigger. Both because, obviously, it implied that the wearer had a big dick and because it was a handy way to hide your syphilis.

It occurs me that the guy may have been so hammered that was trying to wear a wineglass and drink out of a codpiece, and that got reported as "washing his dick in a wineglass".

# ? Oct 19, 2017 20:58

hard counter: Jan 2, 2015

Alhazred posted:

In archaeological circles these pendants has been the source of some controversy:

They were believed depict Thor's hammer but critics has claimed that it doesn't look enough like a hammer to be one. But recently a pendant was unearthed that had the inscription "this is a hammer" which more or less settled the argument.

it's my (very loose) understanding that at some point when certain pagan groups were undergoing relatively peaceful christianization via missionaries that some scholars argue that there was a transitional period where the hammer motif was morphing into a cross - the hammer wasn''t just exclusive to thor or vikings but figured into other european pantheons too - where the figure of Christ was also initially adopted as a sort of philosopher-warrior king who on the one hand taught mercy, humility, charity, etc but on the other hand scourged the unrighteous and personally, violently undertook the harrowing of hell a la doomguy when he was dead for 3 days; that interpretation would later finalize into something much more orthodox later on

i can't give any more detail than that because it was in a documentary i watched years ago and it may only apply to certain pendants that look even more unusual than that

# ? Oct 19, 2017 21:43

syscall girl: Nov 7, 2009; by FactsAreUseless; Fun Shoe

hard counter posted:

it's my (very loose) understanding that at some point when certain pagan groups were undergoing relatively peaceful christianization via missionaries that some scholars argue that there was a transitional period where the hammer motif was morphing into a cross - the hammer wasn''t just exclusive to thor or vikings but figured into other european pantheons too - where the figure of Christ was also initially adopted as a sort of philosopher-warrior king who on the one hand taught mercy, humility, charity, etc but on the other hand scourged the unrighteous and personally, violently undertook the harrowing of hell a la doomguy when he was dead for 3 days; that interpretation would later finalize into something much more orthodox later on

i can't give any more detail than that because it was in a documentary i watched years ago and it may only apply to certain pendants that look even more unusual than that

Christ: Knee-Deep in the Damned is a new one on me but sounds pretty intriguing.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 22:06

Mister Olympus: Oct 31, 2011; Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

syscall girl posted:

Christ: Knee-Deep in the Damned is a new one on me but sounds pretty intriguing.

The idea is that he took that time to bring all the formerly-damned Old Testament figures back to Heaven because were only there because they predated Christ.

It was a major part of the whole Jesus story in the medieval conception of things though; no idea why it went out the window.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 22:13

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Jesus Christ�s difficulty level: Hurt Me Plenty

# ? Oct 19, 2017 22:14

Gyro Zeppeli: Jul 19, 2012; sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Yeah, it's called the Anastasis, the Byzantines in particular were all about it.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 22:27

hard counter: Jan 2, 2015

syscall girl posted:

Christ: Knee-Deep in the Damned is a new one on me but sounds pretty intriguing.

i'm sure there were more lines of thinking that weren't included in the evidence presented in the documentary but the argument from the scholars who believe this was that there are depictions of Christ that are bizarrely swole and armed to the teeth, ready to do battle in hell for 3 straight days to break the curse of death forever, that were associated with these pagans during these transitional periods and that these depictions were falsely categorized as alternate ways of imaging odin/wodin/etc even tho they don't match any earlier depiction while also featuring strange new christian iconography

i doubt this argument is widely accepted as of yet but as long as i'm not misremembering it's definitely what some scholars argue, it's certainly not a historical fun fact but it might be why some people were skeptical of certain hammer amulets

Mister Olympus posted:

The idea is that he took that time to bring all the formerly-damned Old Testament figures back to Heaven because were only there because they predated Christ.

It was a major part of the whole Jesus story in the medieval conception of things though; no idea why it went out the window.

it's my (again shoddy) understanding that the details of Jesus' three days in hell isn't sourced enough for certain christian theologians who won't even include the line He descended into hell when reciting the apostle's catechism, going further ahead to comment on whether it was in humiliation or in victory or if it was to save all righteous pre-gospel people is probably going beyond what some people are comfortable with stating and maybe it fell out of favor for that reason

e: i should also mention that iirc there are also issues with the language itself being unclear

hard counter has a new favorite as of 23:08 on Oct 19, 2017

# ? Oct 19, 2017 22:58

Ellie Crabcakes: Feb 1, 2008; Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Keru posted:

Whatever cranks your hog.

Though far lower in station, Hazelton is still a human being. Whoever, please.

# ? Oct 20, 2017 04:15

System Metternich: Feb 28, 2010; But what did he mean by that?

I can't speak for other faiths, but at least in Catholic churches around here the apostles creed is said during every mass with the line “[he] descended into the realm of death“, but otoh I've never heard anybody speaking or preaching about that bit in terms of the harrowing of hell. If asked, most people would probably think that it's nothing more than a wordily stated “he was dead, and rose again“

# ? Oct 20, 2017 06:39

Mr. Sunshine: May 15, 2008; This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt); Fun Shoe

Yeah, in Swedish Protestantism it's the same. Jesus descended into "d�dsriket" ie the kingdom (or realm) of death. Then again, in old Norse the kingdom of death is "Hel", so...

Also, funny thing: In the abrahamic religions, sprung from the dry and hot lands of the levant, hell is a place of eternal fire. In the norse faith, hell is a place of eternal cold and ice.

# ? Oct 20, 2017 08:13

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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Alkydere posted:

To be fair...the story behind Thor's Hammer was that it wasn't exactly well made. Quite the opposite: the dwarves hosed up them loving up ended up making it awesome due to some fluke.

He had to rub the end of it in order to make it grow.

Should also be pointed out that Thor is a fertility god.

# ? Oct 20, 2017 08:25

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

Josef bugman posted:

He had to rub the end of it in order to make it grow.

Should also be pointed out that Thor is a fertility god.

Shame about his imperfect hammer.

# ? Oct 20, 2017 09:54

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

Mr. Sunshine posted:

Also, funny thing: In the abrahamic religions, sprung from the dry and hot lands of the levant, hell is a place of eternal fire.

In christianity hell is a place of eternal fire because Gehenna, the hebrew word for hell, was a place were children were sacrificed by fire and therefore considered to be cursed.

# ? Oct 20, 2017 17:39

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007; Can't post for 45 hours!

It's in Dante's Inferno too - the gates of Hell are wide open because Jesus kicked them in, He took the Jewish prophets from Limbo, and all the way down in the Eighth Circle all the bridges over the Malebolge are still wrecked from the earthquake of Christ smashing his way through Hell.

Gyro Zeppeli posted:

Yeah, it's called the Anastasis, the Byzantines in particular were all about it.

# ? Oct 22, 2017 04:14

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Byzantine posted:

It's in Dante's Inferno too - the gates of Hell are wide open because Jesus kicked them in, He took the Jewish prophets from Limbo, and all the way down in the Eighth Circle all the bridges over the Malebolge are still wrecked from the earthquake of Christ smashing his way through Hell.

lmao at the three wise men being like "hes too much. you notice how he dances when hes suposed to be dead?"

# ? Oct 22, 2017 04:51

Philippe: Aug 9, 2013; (she/her)

I assume one of them is like, "Why did I give him incense? What use is incense for a baby?"

# ? Oct 22, 2017 06:05

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# ? May 14, 2024 03:02

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

What use is gold to a baby?

# ? Oct 22, 2017 06:19

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