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TV ratings will literally never go up. Even actually compelling sports have seen ratings decline. MLS is way late to the party.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:47
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Feels Villeneuve posted:It was brought up specifically because someone said MLS fans were "crying out" for big name marquee players from overseas. Then they were wrong too. Well, partly. I think a better way to make that point is: the challenge MLS faces and has faced is that they need to offer much better football than the revenue in their market might otherwise justify in order to even pretend to compete with the other sports and leagues their local audience could watch, in their own languages, in largely amenable time zones. The money to attempt this has to come from somewhere, and that has meant convincing investors that it is a relatively low risk. Gigi Galli posted:That does actually make me wonder which, if any, MLS teams are profitable. Are there any? It is deliberately unclear. Like all US sports leagues, owners like to say they are losing money when they're negotiating with the players' union (and probably also when filing with the taxman), but on the other hand they are still around and people are still investing so... That Forbes article has the best public estimates, but it's complicated by MLS' ownership structure (some revenues go on the league's books rather than the teams', and then since the team owners are part-owners of the league they make the money directly and it bypasses the teams' balance sheets entirely), and also by the existence of SUM (which works similarly but we don't even see how much money they make period). all-Rush mixtape posted:MLS: come for the debates, stay for the soccer! The soccer is on...gently caress, not until Sunday. Welp!
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Oct 19, 2017 19:51
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MLS would be much better off if FC Cincinnati and their 20k+ crowds were in MLS next year by getting promoted or whatever. As opposed to some expansion process that will take years and squander all local excitement by requiring the team step on the throats of local government to get a stadium paid for that they can not afford to build along with the expansion fee. Also maybe I am a weirdo but I would be much more likely to watch Casper, Wyoming vs. Edmond, Oklahoma if they have actual good players instead of current LA vs NY or whatever.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:10
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:MLS would be much better off if FC Cincinnati and their 20k+ crowds were in MLS next year by getting promoted or whatever. As opposed to some expansion process that will take years and squander all local excitement by requiring the team step on the throats of local government to get a stadium paid for that they can not afford to build along with the expansion fee. Recent expansion team attendance averages this season: (2011-2017 expansion teams) Atlanta: 46,721 (capacity) Minnesota: 20,538 Orlando: 25,028 (capacity) New York City: 22,459 Montreal: 20,006 (Capacity) Portland: 21,144 (capacity) Vancouver: 21,416 Or, 7 of the top 11 attendance averages in MLS. I don't really think they are squandering local excitement. (I'm not saying I'm opposed to Cincinatti, either. But its hard to argue recent expansion has been anything but a success)
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Oct 19, 2017 20:20
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Attendance numbers include tickets they give away for free and people who dont show up. Fraud numbers.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:28
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African AIDS cum posted:Attendance numbers include tickets they give away for free and people who dont show up. Fraud numbers. so does every other pro league, but this is much less of an issue with MLS numbers than it used to be. You can also look at season ticket holder numbers and waiting lists, though. also, distributing a small amount of free tickets to youth is good, and cool
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Oct 19, 2017 20:30
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as said before the real money stream the league and franchises will depend on is TV revenue which has yet to materialize.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:31
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G-Hawk posted:Well, good thing they've been taking positive steps to be less reliant on expansion fees! This includes: And yet the fees have gone up, so how are they less reliant? New teams are playing in football stadiums they don’t own, and NYCFC just played in loving Hartford. The needle hasn’t moved on ratings, and now the US have crashed out of the World Cup. The youth aren’t getting sold on - they’re going out of contract and playing in loving Denmark. And instead of trying to improve fortunes, teams are scrapping marketing to save money before vanishing or relocating. What you’re suggesting hasn’t come to pass, and unless the academies have improved that much in the last two years (I can tell you DC’s hasn’t), what is there? If Columbus to Austin actually happens, that’s gonna be a chain reaction that leads to NY6 playing in a rec center in Yonkers.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:31
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Your Boy Fancy posted:And yet the fees have gone up, so how are they less reliant? New teams are playing in football stadiums they don’t own, and NYCFC just played in loving Hartford. The needle hasn’t moved on ratings, and now the US have crashed out of the World Cup. The youth aren’t getting sold on - they’re going out of contract and playing in loving Denmark. And instead of trying to improve fortunes, teams are scrapping marketing to save money before vanishing or relocating. the fees have gone up because demand has gone up. Why wouldn't they? They have a dozen+ potential cities to expand to. If you asked for a $150 million expansion fee in 2005 everyone would have told you to gently caress off. Now they're lining up to pay it. NYCFC is a problem, yeah. The previous post was correct ratings are fighting against declining ratings across all u.s. television. Academies have in many cases only existed a few years, those that have existed longer and established younger programs are producing. I never said everything about MLS is perfect, but I think its completely absurd to think the league hasn't made significant progress. 10 years ago if you told me MLS looked like this, I'd be thrilled.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:34
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G-Hawk posted:10 years ago if you told me MLS looked like this, I'd be thrilled. this I was at the first "Kansas City Wiz" game in 1996. It was played in a big mudhole half empty NFL stadium and the teams best player was a guy from zimbabwe named digital. also, the team's name was "The Wiz".
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Oct 19, 2017 20:43
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whypick1 posted:Hey, here's something about this league that's not another loving pro/rel argument: Manchester Yankees probably playing in the Mets' stadium for the playoffs. Avoided only if NYC gets the #2 seed (could happen) or the Yankees don't make it to the World Series (please happen, because gently caress the Yankees). I don't understand how they'd host a 2nd leg Semifinal if Citi Field is going to be a golf course on November 5th http://www.stadiumlinksgolf.com/locations/new-york-city/ . Even if they chose to take the 1st leg as the higher seed, they'd only have 2 days to set the entire golf course up.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:45
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bewbies posted:this I love the Wiz and I have a Kansas City Wiz bumper sticker. Fight me
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Oct 19, 2017 20:46
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Flags Of The World posted:I don't understand how they'd host a 2nd leg Semifinal if Citi Field is going to be a golf course on November 5th http://www.stadiumlinksgolf.com/locations/new-york-city/ . Even if they chose to take the 1st leg as the higher seed, they'd only have 2 days to set the entire golf course up. Looks like a few turf mats, should be easy enough.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:52
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Sure, but they're not going to cancel the people that are actually scheduled on the 5th, and I'm not sure NYCFC would agree to the "disadvantage" of taking the 1st leg at home.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:54
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whypick1 posted:Hey, here's something about this league that's not another loving pro/rel argument: Manchester Yankees probably playing in the Mets' stadium for the playoffs. Avoided only if NYC gets the #2 seed (could happen) or the Yankees don't make it to the World Series (please happen, because gently caress the Yankees). One of my biggest fears about the playoffs is that the Cup Final could be held at Yankee stadium. Games there are loving horrid to watch. I doubt Shea (is it still called Shea?) Stadium is much better.
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Oct 19, 2017 21:00
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Flags Of The World posted:Sure, but they're not going to cancel the people that are actually scheduled on the 5th, and I'm not sure NYCFC would agree to the "disadvantage" of taking the 1st leg at home. It looks like first tee times are at 6AM, figure last is around noon, everyone should be wrapped up by 4, if it’s an 8p start they should be fine.
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Oct 19, 2017 21:01
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bewbies posted:this One of the women that plays in a different division on our regular futsal night has an old school Wiz jersey she wears all of the time. I love it. I also think the Sporting KC rebrand was a good move.
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Oct 19, 2017 21:05
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highme posted:One of my biggest fears about the playoffs is that the Cup Final could be held at Yankee stadium. Games there are loving horrid to watch. I doubt Shea (is it still called Shea?) Stadium is much better. NYC can still fall as far as fifth if they lose Sunday, which would be Cool and Good and reduce the chances of hilarious logistical nightmares in the playoffs (as well as ensuring a home playoff game for pissed-off Crew fans to protest at on national TV, which would be a win-win).
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Oct 19, 2017 21:11
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The current top 3 teams from the East are guaranteed to host if they make it. quote:the finalist with the highest regular-season point total hosts MLS Cup Also, I should unequivocally state for the record; gently caress Vancouver.
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Oct 19, 2017 21:21
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highme posted:The current top 3 teams from the East are guaranteed to host if they make it. Yeah, the host will almost certainly be from the East (the alternative is "NYRB makes an amazing playoff run" and, well, it's NYRB) but NYC is in iffy form and if they fall down the table into the knockout round I think it'll be harder for them to go far. quote:Also, I should unequivocally state for the record; gently caress Vancouver. For once our tendency to draw games we could have won can work in our favour!
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Oct 19, 2017 21:36
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G-Hawk posted:the fees have gone up because demand has gone up. Why wouldn't they? They have a dozen+ potential cities to expand to. If you asked for a $150 million expansion fee in 2005 everyone would have told you to gently caress off. Now they're lining up to pay it. And yet the league can’t produce a group of players capable of winning the hexagonal in CONCACAF. Your league is a joke and a blight with its dumb requirements.
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Oct 19, 2017 21:41
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Dirk Pitt posted:And yet the league can’t produce a group of players capable of winning the hexagonal in CONCACAF. Your league is a joke and a blight with its dumb requirements. sure it can, it just wasn't set up to do so 10 much less 20 years ago, when it would have affected qualifying now. MLS didn't even start 'producing" players until recently, and its good they're developing the academy structure instead of relying on NCAA soccer. I look forward to seeing the national team in the next few years fill up with players produced by MLS academies or European academies, and not a bunch of NCAA players who didn't join a professional club until their 20s. The national team basically relied on one academy in the entire country (Bradenton) and a few standouts who made it to Europe to carry it for 2 decades, but now there are numerous domestic academies (some MLS, some not) and Americans are joining academies in Europe at younger ages. Maybe MLS should have done this in 1996, but they didn't. Academies started a decade ago and are only really now being fully built out and starting to have classes who have been in the system for multiple years. What everyone thinks needs to happen with youth development is happening, it just started later than it probably should have and takes longer than anyone wants. edit: To add, the USMNT roster that crashed out: 14 of 25 played college soccer. I don't think we'll ever see a USMNT in qualifying again where the majority played NCAA soccer, and thats a very good thing. 6 others were IMG/Brandenton. Those that were neither: Jorge Villafana Tim Howard Kellyn Acosta Bobby Wood Christian Pulisic Howard who is done, Villafana who is meh, and probably the 3 players from last month with the most future in the national team. (Along with Arriola, who was at IMG but also did a bit of time at a MLS academy). G-Hawk fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 22:06
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G-Hawk posted:sure it can, it just wasn't set up to do so 10 much less 20 years ago, when it would have affected qualifying now. MLS didn't even start 'producing" players until recently, and its good they're developing the academy structure instead of relying on NCAA soccer. I look forward to seeing the national team in the next few years fill up with players produced by MLS academies or European academies, and not a bunch of NCAA players who didn't join a professional club until their 20s. They aren’t there yet but I wouldn’t be surprised if you see Matt Miazga, Tyler Adams, or Sean Davis in some of these USMNT friendlies coming up as they test out some of the kids. All three came out of the Red Bull’s academy.
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Oct 19, 2017 22:36
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For one last thing on that point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_FIFA_U-17_World_Cup_squads#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_FIFA_U-17_World_Cup_squads#.C2.A0United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_FIFA_U-17_World_Championship_squads#.C2.A0United_States Compare where the kids on the u17 team right now are playing compared to the team 6 years ago, much less 12. The majority of the current team are playing either in a MLS team, academy or a European academy, with a couple exceptions. They're already in a professional structure. 2005 looks like a whos who of pay to play youth programs that fed into college soccer. Its a big difference.
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Oct 19, 2017 22:51
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Uh these MLS academies are garbage though, many kids on the Timbers one quit to play high school soccer because at least the outcome is better. There are multiple players on this list who quit or declined to join it http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/10/meet_oregons_high_school_socce.html
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Oct 19, 2017 22:56
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African AIDS cum posted:Uh these MLS academies are garbage though, many kids on the Timbers one quit to play high school soccer because at least the outcome is better. There are multiple players on this list who quit or declined to join it Good point, for many teenagers going to college is probably more realistic and a better outcome than becoming a professional soccer player. Although I think portland is considered one of the shittier in MLS
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Oct 19, 2017 23:07
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:MLS would be much better off if FC Cincinnati and their 20k+ crowds were in MLS next year by getting promoted or whatever. As opposed to some expansion process that will take years and squander all local excitement by requiring the team step on the throats of local government to get a stadium paid for that they can not afford to build along with the expansion fee. This is the argument the NHL used in locating so many teams in the south and we saw how that played out in most markets. A few years of excitement then fans lose interest in the flavor of the month.
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Oct 19, 2017 23:48
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G-Hawk posted:For one last thing on that point: One of the exceptions on the 2017 list, Josh Sargent, signed a contract to move to Werder Bremen in January.
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Oct 20, 2017 00:27
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in actual relegation news, i'm loving how much of a comic book villain this guy is
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Oct 20, 2017 01:17
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Azerban posted:in actual relegation news, i'm loving how much of a comic book villain this guy is
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Oct 20, 2017 01:23
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G-Hawk posted:Good point, for many teenagers going to college is probably more realistic and a better outcome than becoming a professional soccer player. They are all poo poo. All of them
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Oct 20, 2017 01:29
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XyrlocShammypants posted:They are all poo poo. All of them And yet they're still a better route to developing into a professional soccer player than the NCAA.
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Oct 20, 2017 01:30
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Shrapnig posted:And yet they're still a better route to developing into a professional soccer player than the NCAA. yeah this. rome wasn't built in a day and all
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Oct 20, 2017 01:32
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Shrapnig posted:And yet they're still a better route to developing into a professional soccer player than the NCAA.
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Oct 20, 2017 01:33
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Azerban posted:in actual relegation news, i'm loving how much of a comic book villain this guy is I assume you mean Archie comics. Or possibly Scooby-Doo. Really he's just a born-on-third failson who wants his toy in a nicer place and also doesn't know when to shut up. Courtemanche or his own PR guys must be tearing their hair out.
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Oct 20, 2017 01:38
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Crazy Ted posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not even a full-scholarship sport in the NCAA, which is why players can transfer without having to sit out a year, right? True, but to be fair only baseball, basketball, football, and hockey have that rule. Baseball, basketball, football, and hockey...
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Oct 20, 2017 01:45
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Shrapnig posted:And yet they're still a better route to developing into a professional soccer player than the NCAA. Yes
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Oct 20, 2017 01:50
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Azerban posted:in actual relegation news, i'm loving how much of a comic book villain this guy is Comic book villains are way better at planning than this.
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Oct 20, 2017 03:11
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Perhaps Young Anthony stepped out of line 
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Oct 20, 2017 03:33
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:MLS would be much better off if FC Cincinnati and their 20k+ crowds were in MLS next year by getting promoted or whatever. As opposed to some expansion process that will take years and squander all local excitement by requiring the team step on the throats of local government to get a stadium paid for that they can not afford to build along with the expansion fee. Sure, but Cincinnati is, what, 12th in total points in the USL? They wouldn’t be going anywhere.
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Oct 20, 2017 04:24
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