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Karl Barks posted:you guys didn't have stack or robert's rules of order? how did you do stuff very fetontishly
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Oct 20, 2017 14:24
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Ruzihm posted:I'm in MD, a super blue & closed primary state. I'm probably going to stop voting entirely for non-open-socialist dem candidates, but I'm going to stay registered as dem and continue voting in dem primaries just for damage control. What part of MD comrade Syndlig posted:we did it! we loving did it, y'all! oh HELL yeah
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Oct 20, 2017 14:33
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Karl Barks posted:you guys didn't have stack or robert's rules of order? how did you do stuff Who's got a link to that recording of the meeting Fetonte ran to determine the chapter's position on him? Oh wait that scenario already kinda answers the question.
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Oct 20, 2017 14:35
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Karl Barks posted:you guys didn't have stack or robert's rules of order? how did you do stuff do... stuff? 
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Oct 20, 2017 15:16
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Syndlig posted:we did it! we loving did it, y'all!  
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Oct 20, 2017 15:38
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COOL CORN posted:What part of MD comrade laurel, but i'm in the greater baltimore dsa
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Oct 20, 2017 15:41
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Nice job Austin, way to turn it around in the face of a crisis. Let's see how LA is doing with their sexual harassment issues https://twitter.com/CApuffin/status/921385541186154496 Wow Austin really fantastic work!
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Oct 20, 2017 16:00
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Vhak lord of hate posted:Nice job Austin, way to turn it around in the face of a crisis. Let's see how LA is doing with their sexual harassment issues that's a whole lot of words
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Oct 20, 2017 16:05
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There's nothing wrong with the statement, nor not contacting people to issue a statement.
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Oct 20, 2017 16:06
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Actually no: the statement is too long, and is badly formed, grammatically, in places. Otherwise, it's fine.
rudatron has issued a correction as of 16:13 on Oct 20, 2017 |
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Oct 20, 2017 16:07
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lol gently caress off you idiot, this is how they described three people texting a woman gun emojis and then "run" https://twitter.com/Arpwel/status/921387704344088576
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Oct 20, 2017 16:24
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I'm sympathetic to LA because it's clear that this was as more just not knowing what to do rather than real malice. All they needed to do was apologize, say they're investigating, and that they're starting new policies. Instead we got this long bullshit no one is going to read, that tries to protect everyone when some folks are clearly huge creeps, and gives us no impression that anything is going to get better.
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Oct 20, 2017 16:31
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So remember how I said, a while ago, that if every internal dispute in the DSA gets fought on twitter, that it would eventually kill the org as a whole? This is part of that process. What should be a small, internal issue, of a personal conflict between members, is slowly transforming itself into credibility damaging drama. Everyone wants to be 'right', on the 'right side', and do all that poo poo that makes one a 'good ally'. No one is interested in doing things properly. What is the proper way to deal with this situation? Because I can tell you, it's not automatically assuming the most damning and uncharitable interpretation possible, of a statement by the org on an issue, that you almost certainly don't even have a direct stake in. "But what if there's an "insidious culture of misogyny?" - and what if there's not? What if this is all reading into the situation something that isn't actually supported from limited information available, which are themselves from a handful of sources, which may not be objective about the issue? And more importantly, why do you think you can accurately make that distinction? What makes you sure that you know best? Where is that confidence coming from?
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Oct 20, 2017 16:34
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LA smells to me like young leadership who is trying hard but don't have the maturity or are unwilling to actually address lovely elements in the org because they go to house parties together. Like, they know this poo poo is bad and will rot the foundations of the organization and that's why they wrote 30,000 words about it but they also go to great lengths to protect ~both sides~ because part of the steering committee is going "nah, not Jeff though! C'mon guys we all know Jeff, he'd never do anything like this, he's a real sweetheart!" Maybe that's a bad read on my part, but I saw this happen all the time when I was organizing in college
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Oct 20, 2017 16:39
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What the gently caress? Women being harassed out of the DSA is way bigger danger than twitter gossip. And if this had been handled back in May, if DSA LA was a healthy orginization, it would have stayed a small, internal issue!!!
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Oct 20, 2017 16:40
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I would not feel safe in the DSA if I was barred from speaking out about things that make me uncomfortable. gently caress you if you want to change that.
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Oct 20, 2017 16:41
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part of the problem is that the issue wasn't addressed until it blew up to what it is now. i agree twitter isn't handling it well in the sense that online is often a shitshow but we wouldn't be here if la sc they did a halfway competent job
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Oct 20, 2017 16:43
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Not everything will be handled competently. Mistakes will always be made. Error is unavoidable. The most you can do is mitigate. And you mitigate it, with a system, which you get everyone to stick to it. And you will know when everyone is sticking to the system, when everyone is acting properly. Do you get what I'm saying here?
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Oct 20, 2017 16:57
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rudatron posted:Not everything will be handled competently. Mistakes will always be made. Error is unavoidable. The most you can do is mitigate. I loving don't you weird shithead
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Oct 20, 2017 16:59
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rudatron posted:Not everything will be handled competently. Mistakes will always be made. Error is unavoidable. The most you can do is mitigate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e7Fha9e6q4
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Oct 20, 2017 17:00
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this poo poo is really bad and gross, but I don't think it's going to destroy the organization like you think it will. it's not like the immediate response to the situation was to post to web, this was months in the making when the resolution was to push a victim of sexual abuse out. this is exactly the thing that needs to be aired out so that it can be dealt with and publicly condemned in a way that shows that we as an org will not stand for it. like people were quick to pat themselves on the back for early adopters of the twitter outrage train against danny fetonte, but then someone explaining why they won't go back to a chapter that ostracized them and allowed abuse and death threats to go unpunished is a bridge too far? edit: i mean we could just do it the way they do in PSL where we kick out everyone that tries to speak out against anything because diversity of opinions is verboten.
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Oct 20, 2017 17:07
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an actual dog posted:I loving don't you weird shithead He's saying that airing out every grievance, no matter how big or small, on an international platform (Twitter), is a really bad look for the org and it should have been kept internally Basically, the conversation is right, the platform is wrong, especially factoring in how toxic said platform is to discourse
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Oct 20, 2017 17:18
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Business Gorillas posted:He's saying that airing out every grievance, no matter how big or small, on an international platform (Twitter), is a really bad look for the org and it should have been kept internally it's not a good look, but i don't know how you prevent people from talking about it on twitter. this is just our new reality
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Oct 20, 2017 17:22
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sure but think of all the Fetonte memes we got to post Twitter is bad. I keep wading too deep into it and it would be best to step back, but all my friends and most of my comrades are there
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Oct 20, 2017 17:23
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Karl Barks posted:it's not a good look, but i don't know how you prevent people from talking about it on twitter. this is just our new reality You have adults in leadership (!!!) positions that aren't afraid of conflict and create positive environments within the org. Make it so people don't feel like their only avenue is Online
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Oct 20, 2017 17:33
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Issues not getting resolved locally and blowing up on Twitter is better than issues not getting resolved locally and getting swept under the table.
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Oct 20, 2017 17:33
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Business Gorillas posted:You have adults in leadership (!!!) positions that aren't afraid of conflict and create positive environments within the org. Make it so people don't feel like their only avenue is Online maybe. i would hope that would work. i think people will still post poo poo on twitter tho
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Oct 20, 2017 17:34
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Business Gorillas posted:He's saying that airing out every grievance, no matter how big or small, on an international platform (Twitter), is a really bad look for the org and it should have been kept internally The bad look is actually that a someone had to quit because they were being harassed. I know there are issues with social media use but I don't think any of it is relevant in this situation. Also I have no idea how you pulled out this meaning from that post lol
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Oct 20, 2017 17:35
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Ace of Baes posted:Issues not getting resolved locally and blowing up on Twitter is better than issues not getting resolved locally and getting swept under the table. not empty quoting
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Oct 20, 2017 17:35
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If you look at the history of this thread even, it's a rolling argument about Twitter fights with the occasional nugget of Good Thing. If I was a brand new or prospective comrade, how do you think the endless argument we have itt would look as a first impression? Export that feeling to a global scale and that's what rudatron is talking about wrt endless callout culture
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Oct 20, 2017 17:38
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I don't know how you'd prevent it.
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Oct 20, 2017 17:38
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an actual dog posted:The bad look is actually that a someone had to quit because they were being harassed. I know there are issues with social media use but I don't think any of it is relevant in this situation. having open arguments on twitter can be a bad look and someone quitting because of harassement can be a bad look, and they can both be a bad look at the same time
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Oct 20, 2017 17:39
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Ace of Baes posted:Issues not getting resolved locally and blowing up on Twitter is better than issues not getting resolved locally and getting swept under the table. That's absolutely true and this should be treated as an org-wide learning experience, not another chapter in the Twitter Wars
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Oct 20, 2017 17:39
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People not in the DSA who learn about the problems in DSA LA and Austin through twitter is a good thing. I don't want people to join the DSA and not know what they're getting into. Close the new members facebook group though, for the love of god.
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Oct 20, 2017 17:42
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maybe chapters should mandate that anyone in or seeking leadership positions go through anti-oppression training? i can't really see any downside to learning how not to be a oppressive shitbird.
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Oct 20, 2017 17:43
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Karl Barks posted:maybe. i would hope that would work. i think people will still post poo poo on twitter tho that's fine and you can't change the wind the objective should be identifying problems, addressing them quickly, and minimizing their impact to the org. you can't prevent everyone from yelling on twitter, but i'd bet a lot of money that the parties involved wouldn't have taken to twitter if the issues in question were handled correctly and maturely at a local level edit: an actual dog posted:People not in the DSA who learn about the problems in DSA LA and Austin through twitter is a good thing. I don't want people to join the DSA and not know what they're getting into. (this also plays into the intentional stereotype that every leftist org is a clusterfuck btw) Business Gorillas has issued a correction as of 17:50 on Oct 20, 2017 |
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Oct 20, 2017 17:48
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Business Gorillas posted:that's fine and you can't change the wind That's not a bet, of course she wouldn't have posted about it if DSA LA handed it!
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Oct 20, 2017 17:50
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Business Gorillas posted:that's fine and you can't change the wind This is gonna be the situation with the DSA as long as it's the largest and fastest growing org in the country. Other socialists groups will continue to attack us to try and poach, liberals will continue to attack bc they see us as a threat/their pathology, and cons will continue to attack bc we're socialists. Anyone whos expecting building socialism in the belly of the global imperialism hegemon was going to be quick clean or easy is very misguided.
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Oct 20, 2017 18:03
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Syndlig posted:maybe chapters should mandate that anyone in or seeking leadership positions go through anti-oppression training? i can't really see any downside to learning how not to be a oppressive shitbird. This, and I'd add that it would be a great cultural change if anti-oppression training was seen as a valuable and desirable training to go through for self improvement instead of a punishment for screwing up. I'd go to one if my chapter announced it and I don't think I've done anything wrong, I just want to become better as an organizer and a person. Also, gently caress anyone who says that ~process~ and ~decorum~ is more important than members being driven out because of harassment. I hate Twitter more than most and I'm writing up a goddamn manifesto about socialist engagement with capitalist social media, but this and the situation with injured comrades not receiving funds were aired precisely because the organization failed. They tried the system and it let them down, and they went public. Don't want that? Fix your poo poo. Your actual comrades matter more than your image of the organization. If the DSA somehow fell apart tomorrow, I'd still be organizing with all the amazing people I've come to know.
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Oct 20, 2017 18:17
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apokaladle posted:This, and I'd add that it would be a great cultural change if anti-oppression training was seen as a valuable and desirable training to go through for self improvement instead of a punishment for screwing up. I'd go to one if my chapter announced it and I don't think I've done anything wrong, I just want to become better as an organizer and a person. this is literally what i'm saying lol
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Oct 20, 2017 18:19
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