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Don Gato posted:Personally I thought the beginning of Diamond Age was a better parody of the typical cyberpunk protagonist. I also thought that in general, The Diamond Age was better but I havent met anyone that agrees with me there.
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Oct 22, 2017 20:54
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Ugly In The Morning posted:c That's not really all that surprising when you realize that Stephenson's real gift as a writer is taking esoteric, technical stuff and explaining it in compelling ways understandable to layman. His actual plotting and action stuff isn't any better than Micheal Crichton, or Jim Butcher, or any number of other more pulpy genre authors. I usually hate his overly-technical stuff more because the have the most smug pontificating from the insufferable STEMlord protagonist . At least in the overly-actiony ones like Reamde or Snowcrash, that dude has to get off his pedestal for a while to run away from the bad guys.
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Oct 22, 2017 21:45
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Don Gato posted:Personally I thought the beginning of Diamond Age was a better parody of the typical cyberpunk protagonist. I also thought that in general, The Diamond Age was better but I havent met anyone that agrees with me there. I'm not sure that I agree with the idea that Stephenson's strength is in the esoteric technical stuff because my favorite thing he's ever written was the Baroque Cycle and it wasn't very technical at all.
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Oct 22, 2017 21:56
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NorgLyle posted:I don't like The Diamond Age (because of the ending thing you mention) but I still like it better than Snow Crash. All that stuff about currency and cryptology doesn't count? I'm not saying he's writing technical manuals, just that when the plot requires the reader to understand some aspect of mathematical theory or organic chemistry, he has a knack for clear, simple explanations so it doesn't get too dry.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:24
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NorgLyle posted:I don't like The Diamond Age (because of the ending thing you mention) but I still like it better than Snow Crash. I like the first 80% of The Diamond Age a lot. My favorite Stephenson.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:25
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I own and generally enjoyed all Stephenson books but I should still get Cryptonomicon as hardcover. The Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O. was pretty easy to get through, compared to Anathem. Something different: Xprize sets up a writing contest for established authors and regular folk. One of the rules was to be generally optimistic about the future. Peter Watts knocks it out of the park, but it must’ve been hard for the organization to accept that submission because it’s uh.. technically correct. Other submissions are pretty bad because they don’t come up with anything really new so I guess those qualify for this thread. Didn’t see it mentioned in here after a quick forums search so sorry if this is a dupe. https://seat14c.com/future_ideas/intro
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Oct 22, 2017 22:40
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I admit I used to love Xanth, I even submitted a couple puns in the hopes he would use them  . However at work last night I was thinking of his other series that I remember liking more which was Incarnations of Immortality, and realized that they are still a bit hosed up. Specifically in the book about War he basically says that feminism is a plot from Satan and the main character gets rid of his fiance/wife? because she starts wearing pants and wanting to have her own life. Also Satan's book completely retcons all the previous books and just ruin it. I still like the concept of the different embodiments of War Death etc. being temporary jobs essentially, and I liked the descriptions of how the jobs work and the fact that when one of them temporarily took over someones body it does mention their disorientation because of how people perceive things differently. Unfortunately my enjoyment of them is now marred by knowledge of what type of person Piers is and what type of characters he prefers.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:33
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I think the best thing I can say about Piers Anthony's character is that he maybe hasn't actually raped anybody. Good for him.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:45
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I think the best thing I can say about Piers Anthony's character is that he maybe hasn't actually raped anybody yet. Good for him. Sham bam bamina! posted:I think the best thing I can say about Piers Anthony's character is that he maybe hasn't actually raped anybody over 13. Good for him. Couldn't decide.
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Oct 23, 2017 01:01
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I like it when a Piers Anthony character stumbles into the Rape Store and is like "oh hang on, not for me, I'll just have a hamburger steak combo" and when the proprietor says that they aren't serving HB steak and even if they were, they don't do combos, a Culture Mind sneezes and in that wash of ionized molecules both creates and destroys a diner in Reform, Alabama, United States of America, Planet Earth
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Oct 23, 2017 01:11
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Elohssa Gib posted:I admit I used to love Xanth, I even submitted a couple puns in the hopes he would use them Ugh, you're dredging up my repressed memories of those books. I think the final(?) book has a scene where two women are turned into men and immediately try to rape each other, this being an empathy-building exercise given to them by a god or something so they can know how hard men have it trying not to rape women. There was also a pedophile judge who has child prostitutes dress in diapers for him, and one of his victims nominates him to take over the role of God because he's so good at heart.
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Oct 23, 2017 01:55
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Tagra posted:I loaded this book because it's sci-fi, and has a female protagonist who is also a military space pilot. It was intriguing and looked like it would be right up my alley. If you've not read it yet, do yourself a HUGE favor and read the Ancillary trilogy by Ann Leckie. It's brilliant.
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Oct 23, 2017 03:38
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I spoiler tagged this earlier on in the thread because it’s disturbing and gross and hateful but you know what? In wake of recent news here it is unspoiled because gently caress Anthony and his disgusting ideas: The first Incarnations book features a scene where the love interest is tortured by the main henchman via electric shock to her naked tits with a device specifically designed for that purpose. The smell of blackened, burning flesh is described. At one point she tells the protag to keep going on his quest as he’s considering the idea that she’s not really being tortured at all and the villain is just creating an illusion to sway him from his purpose. There is zero description of any aftercare/healing after she’s rescued, nor does the protagonist acknowledge he was wrong to think she was still safe at the time. No clue if it’s brought up in later books but my bet is no. I can’t remember a drat thing from the second book and quit on the first chapter of the third but frankly that was the scene that put me off the entire genre forever, and given what’s been shared in this thread that was for the best.
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Oct 23, 2017 04:03
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:If you've not read it yet, do yourself a HUGE favor and read the Ancillary trilogy by Ann Leckie. It's brilliant. Second!
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Oct 23, 2017 09:53
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The_White_Crane posted:Second! Motion passes!
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Oct 23, 2017 13:10
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SerialKilldeer posted:Ugh, you're dredging up my repressed memories of those books. I think the final(?) book has a scene where two women are turned into men and immediately try to rape each other, this being an empathy-building exercise given to them by a god or something so they can know how hard men have it trying not to rape women. There was also a pedophile judge who has child prostitutes dress in diapers for him, and one of his victims nominates him to take over the role of God because he's so good at heart. It gets worse-better: the book revolves around the protagonists trying to change the definitions of Good and Evil (for the purpose of whether people get into Heaven or Hell when they die), and one of their reasons for this is that the judge (in his 60s) loving a fifteen-year-old was considered Evil and they all decide it shouldn't be. One of the protagonists, of course, is eventually elected God because her soul is exactly half evil and everyone agrees this is a good thing, apparently.
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Oct 23, 2017 13:40
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Laserjet 4P posted:I own and generally enjoyed all Stephenson books but I should still get Cryptonomicon as hardcover. The Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O. was pretty easy to get through, compared to Anathem. Haha. Reading the winning entry and then Watts' was a pretty big hoot. Link, for the lazy: https://seat14c.com/future_ideas/37D
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Oct 23, 2017 13:50
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Cat Army 
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Could you copy and paste it somewhere? That website refuses to load on several devices.
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Oct 23, 2017 13:56
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The Iron Rose posted:Haha. Reading the winning entry and then Watts' was a pretty big hoot. Wow, Watts is clearly not down with the contest premise. I wonder who strongarmed him into writing an entry?
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Oct 23, 2017 14:01
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lifg posted:Seveneves by Stephenson is not good. It’s barely even a book, it’s a series of technological solutions to problems, surrounded by a thin plot and thinner characters. This book might be fine if you read it expecting “The Martian 2.0.” But if you’re like me, and have heard nothing but superlatives about what Stephenson is doing to sci-fi, about his heavy tomes pushing the genre forward, then this book is a heavy let down. Oh, I wanted to read it  I didn't read anything by Stephenson and thought that it would be a good place to start. (Probably still will read it though)edit: Can't decide if Gibson's Blue Ant trilogy is dryer or not than his other works - the anticlimaxes of endings made me reread Bridge and still can't decide. canis minor has a new favorite as of 14:24 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 14:20
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canis minor posted:edit: Can't decide if Gibson's Blue Ant trilogy is dryer or not than his other works - the anticlimaxes of endings made me reread Bridge and still can't decide. I would say they are, and I think deliberately so. At times the Blue Ant books seem like they're deliberately parodying thrillers/Gibson's earlier books.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:12
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Laserjet 4P posted:I own and generally enjoyed all Stephenson books but I should still get Cryptonomicon as hardcover. The Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O. was pretty easy to get through, compared to Anathem. The winner seems like it went down a list of elements to win a modern book award. It's so formulaic and hand wavy that it reads more like an idle daydream written on Livejournal back at the turn of the century. Watts' piece, on the other hand, is a punk finger flying in the face of the contest and is glorious.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:34
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PJOmega posted:The winner seems like it went down a list of elements to win a modern book award. It's so formulaic and hand wavy that it reads more like an idle daydream written on Livejournal back at the turn of the century.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:02
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Sham bam bamina! posted:It also has the most worthless opening paragraph I've read in a long, long while. The Paragraph in Question posted:It's a special kind of mindfuck to realize the moment between “Down With The Sickness,” and Shostakovich’s “String Quartet No. 3 (3rd Movement),” was twenty years for the world and maybe two blinks for everyone on that plane. For the record, Shostakovich is as Metal as Classical gets, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. About the Author posted:Aidan Menuge is a musical composer and performer, and writer, living in the United States. He has composed for nationally recognized chamber groups, maintains a small Youtube channel of his music, and has been recognized for his writing by the UW-Milwaukee English Department.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:07
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lifg posted:Seveneves by Stephenson is not good. It’s barely even a book, it’s a series of technological solutions to problems, surrounded by a thin plot and thinner characters. This book might be fine if you read it expecting “The Martian 2.0.” But if you’re like me, and have heard nothing but superlatives about what Stephenson is doing to sci-fi, about his heavy tomes pushing the genre forward, then this book is a heavy let down. I like Neal Stephenson (well okay, anathem, diamond age and the baroque cycle) but The Rise and Fall of Dodo was so badly written I got about 30 pages into it and gave up. It read like terrible teenage self published fanfic.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:50
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Zamboni_Rodeo posted:If you've not read it yet, do yourself a HUGE favor and read the Ancillary trilogy by Ann Leckie. It's brilliant. I'll load it immediately! Thanks. For content, how about a book that is bad for reasons OTHER than sex, rape, or misogyny! Good Graces, by Lesley Kagan. I ended up rating it 2 stars on Goodreads because it wasn't entirely terrible, but the ending made me  in a 'what were you thinking?' sort of way.The book follows a ~10 year old girl trying to deal with her rebellious little sister in what feels like an abusive relationship, where her sister will do something awful and she'll spend several pages (if not chapters) justifying it to herself via inner monologue. There's a bit of a murder mystery slog to it and a lot of the more interesting aspects of their relationship is set aside as they try to figure out whodunnit. At the end of the book, these girls, ages 9 and 10, kill the murderer, destroy all the evidence of the deed, and bury his body in a construction pit. Then they go home while all the adults wander around going "where did [murderer] go? Hunh he must have left town." No one ever discovers that he was murdered, or that he was actually the murderer, and everyone carries on their lives in ignorance of the events. This is presented, unblinkingly, as a lighthearted happy ending. What the gently caress.
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Oct 24, 2017 01:15
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PJOmega posted:The winner seems like it went down a list of elements to win a modern book award. It's so formulaic and hand wavy that it reads more like an idle daydream written on Livejournal back at the turn of the century. Eh, he glosses over a lot in his quest to indict human nature- it's not just short term gratification that prevents people from doing the right thing but an uncertainty as to what will actually do any good. It's not like everyone knows what's best but just doesn't wanna do it.
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Oct 24, 2017 02:46
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The Iron Rose posted:Haha. Reading the winning entry and then Watts' was a pretty big hoot. Man I hate that webdesign. My optimistic vision of the future is one where we won't have websites that suck as bad.
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Oct 24, 2017 03:06
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PJOmega posted:The winner seems like it went down a list of elements to win a modern book award. It's so formulaic and hand wavy that it reads more like an idle daydream written on Livejournal back at the turn of the century. I liked the winning entry. What am I missing?
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Oct 24, 2017 03:23
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Maxwell Lord posted:Eh, he glosses over a lot in his quest to indict human nature- it's not just short term gratification that prevents people from doing the right thing but an uncertainty as to what will actually do any good. It's not like everyone knows what's best but just doesn't wanna do it. Yeah it really smacks of a particular sort of slacktivist types. "The problem is that nobody wants to think about the BIG PROBLEMS, everybody is shortsighted sheep except me" In reality people are totally willing to try to tackle big problems and more often than not end up loving things up. People tend closer to the Midgley end of the scale than the Borlaug.
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Oct 24, 2017 04:14
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Tagra posted:I'll load it immediately! Thanks. That's cute as gently caress.
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Oct 24, 2017 04:34
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That ending kicks rear end.
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Oct 24, 2017 05:27
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ashnjack posted:I liked the winning entry. What am I missing? It's glurgey and predictable. Sure, it's just a short essay, but it doesn't go anywhere. The person was sad because their friend got early-onset dementia. Then they went to the future and it was cured! Yay! Also something about apps and being a smart cool coder and all the coffee and also music is the secret key to the brain. Watts' entry is fantastic. The central concept of a genetically-engineered altruist given supreme authority over life and death is lifted wholesale from his own Maelstrom and Behemoth, but who cares. He's right. Maxwell Lord posted:Eh, he glosses over a lot in his quest to indict human nature- it's not just short term gratification that prevents people from doing the right thing but an uncertainty as to what will actually do any good. It's not like everyone knows what's best but just doesn't wanna do it. No, it's a lot closer to that than you think. Everyone knows what we need to do about racism, sexism, healthcare, poverty, climate change. Short-term personal greed is absolutely what keeps us from moving forward in those fields. I think I'll subject myself to the KJA one next e: it was bad quote:Magdalene remembered what the medical techs had said after she collapsed in the terminal. They laughed, relieved that she “only” had brain cancer. She tried to put the pieces together. “So removing a brain tumor is nothing more complicated than getting a filling at the dentist?” (this is immediately after he describes how her brain tumor was treated with future medical tech by drilling a hole in her skull, albeit a very small one) 
Sagebrush has a new favorite as of 06:29 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 06:01
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Sagebrush posted:Everyone knows what we need to do about racism, sexism, healthcare, poverty, climate change. Short-term personal greed is absolutely what keeps us from moving forward in those fields. We have a general idea. The EXACT things we need to do are a little more nebulous. So, okay- what precise policies do we enact? What's the exact formula for ending racism? What precise level of sacrifice will save the planet, or whatever (and don't get me started on the nebulous phrasing of such a concept- the problem isn't life on Earth ending, it's Earth's ecosystem becoming hostile to human survival.) And there's the fact that some people don't accept the reality. The walking over coals analogy doesn't hold- we can't see utopia in front of us if only we were willing to make these sacrifices, some of us don't know or don't believe it's there, some of us honestly do not think that you can have clean energy or socialism that isn't the USSR or people of different ethnicities living together in harmony. That these people are wrong doesn't help if we can't convince them, and the idea that they deep down know things would be better is, to me, like the fundamentalist Christian belief that everyone knows God and Jesus are real, nonbelievers just don't want to stop sinning. It's not a view that wins a lot of converts. So if the real problem is how do you convince those people that we should stop pollution and racism and sexism and all that, just rewiring their pleasure centers isn't gonna do it. They have to be convinced the sacrifice WILL lead to a positive goal. What good is it if I cut my electricity consumption by 100%, go out into the woods and live in a cabin, if we can't actually enact any cutbacks to industrial pollution? My joining the local DSA chapter won't desegregate the neighborhood or stop the President from inciting nuclear war with North Korea. You look at D&D or left Twitter and it's all despair, nobody's offering real hope because we decided that's a sucker's game. Nobody has any real solutions. I'm just sick of nihilism. The person who comes into a group of people trying to envision something vaguely positive in these despairing times and decides what we need is even more despair isn't punk, that's just being an rear end in a top hat. Maxwell Lord has a new favorite as of 08:59 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 08:10
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Sagebrush posted:. Everyone knows what we need to do about racism, sexism, healthcare, poverty, climate change. Cool, give me your exact plan that everyone agrees is necessary.
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Oct 24, 2017 08:52
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Tunicate posted:Cool, give me your exact plan that everyone agrees is necessary. Dehumanise yourself and face to bloodshed.
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Oct 24, 2017 09:12
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I liked the line about not wanting to put an alien machine with incomprehensible thought processes in control. What do they think they just did...
Trauma Dog 3000 has a new favorite as of 09:41 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 09:35
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Maxwell Lord posted:We have a general idea. The EXACT things we need to do are a little more nebulous. So, okay- what precise policies do we enact? What's the exact formula for ending racism? What precise level of sacrifice will save the planet, or whatever (and don't get me started on the nebulous phrasing of such a concept- the problem isn't life on Earth ending, it's Earth's ecosystem becoming hostile to human survival.) This is a problem that plagues a lot of dystopian fiction. The author sits up there on his cloud casting judgement on the whole world, then offers a “solution” that’s pure sci-fi techno-wizardry. That way he gets to rant about the problems he sees in society, but without having to offer a practical alternative because hey, someone will take control of everyone's magic brain implants and force them to kill themselves. It doesn't help that these authors all seem to think they're saying something revolutionary, when really they're just rehashing the same tired critiques of modern society that everyone has heard a million times over. Am I supposed to be shocked at the idea of killing a large portion of humanity to save the world? Because I've heard that plenty of times as well, usually from some cackling one-dimensional villain in a video game.
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Oct 24, 2017 11:16
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I think you have to take Watts' piece in the context in which it appears: in a collection full of sappy optimism (which is fine in theory - there are few enough optimistic sci fi novels out there), except for the fact that the three different short stories I read randomly, picked out of the drop of the hat, were boring rear end "yay future disease is gone." Within such a restricted creative environment, I have to give credit to Watts for ensuring his piece technically qualified while undermining the entire theme of the short story series. That's what I find impressive, not the short story itself.
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Oct 24, 2017 13:43
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The Iron Rose posted:I think you have to take Watts' piece in the context in which it appears: in a collection full of sappy optimism (which is fine in theory - there are few enough optimistic sci fi novels out there), except for the fact that the three different short stories I read randomly, picked out of the drop of the hat, were boring rear end "yay future disease is gone." Within such a restricted creative environment, I have to give credit to Watts for ensuring his piece technically qualified while undermining the entire theme of the short story series. That's what I find impressive, not the short story itself. See, I prefer sappy optimism to taking a poo poo on people's attempts to envision a better future.
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Oct 24, 2017 17:39
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