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Broken Record Talk posted:Potentially losing more guys seems perfectly fine and fluffy to me. Squad takes casualties, lose their nerve, start to flee, commissar caps a guy in the head, dudes glance around and realize there are now even less guys to keep them safe, more flee. Hell, it's nice having at least ONE army actually have to worry about Ld. So many armies basically ignore it now.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:28
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The whole point of conscripts is that they are unwilling garbage forced to fight. Yes normal AM infantry are better, they're trained. You take conscrpits for numbers period. This fits in with what they do. The Commissar change was needed as a big change rule wise was having infantry die to morale instead of it being a non factor, it too easily made it a non factor. These changes were coming a mile away.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:31
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How does an ld aura interact with ld penalties? The way I see it, if some nasties with a -ld aura roll up on conscripts and a commissar is behind them, it doesn't work because they use his ld instead of their own and his ld isn't debuffed. Does that work?
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Oct 22, 2017 22:32
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Hell, it's nice having at least ONE army actually have to worry about Ld. So many armies basically ignore it now. Ld feels really weird in practice, in all the games I have seen a player will lose less than 5 models in a game, the one exception is my tau where I typically lose a decent handful each game.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:33
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R0ckfish posted:Ld feels really weird in practice, in all the games I have seen a player will lose less than 5 models in a game, the one exception is my tau where I typically lose a decent handful each game. Because prior to this change you generally had two kinds of armies: Armies with relatively low model count and high ld so by the time you've killed enough to make them fail a test the unit is either gone or there's one guy left that runs Or hordes that ignore ld as a mechanic entirety Only a handful of armies fall outside that, like fire warrior tau.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:37
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chutche2 posted:How does an ld aura interact with ld penalties? Depends on the target, my rear end in a top hat friend's butcher cannons drop the squads Ld specifically, but if they're standing near my chaplain then when they test morale they use his leadership not their own, so the modifier has no effect. If the effect says take a test at -x then yeah the modifier still applies because its not modifying the leadership its modifying the test.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:38
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I'd like a stronger penalty to just shuffling out of combat. Nothing like getting into combat, then watch something shuffle away usually with no penalties then having an elite combat unit die to gun shots. At least let me attack them if they want to disengage or affect the bs of nearby units not wanting to hit fleeing allies.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:40
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Yeah it's extremely fluffy and good to have conscripts and commissars be completely ineffective units that no one will ever take, I love those.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:41
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For_Great_Justice posted:I'd like a stronger penalty to just shuffling out of combat. Nothing like getting into combat, then watch something shuffle away usually with no penalties then having an elite combat unit die to gun shots. At least let me attack them if they want to disengage or affect the bs of nearby units not wanting to hit fleeing allies. Yeah I have a hard time with using my vanguard and that's part of the problem. Jump infantry can't reroll charges, don't get hammer of wrath, get fewer attacks due to the change to pistols and having two weapons, and the opponent just backs off and shoots them.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:43
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It's also fluffy that eldar murder everything with minimal casualties. All is right with the world
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Oct 22, 2017 22:43
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Hixson posted:It's also fluffy that eldar murder everything with minimal casualties. All is right with the world This, but unironically.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:44
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The problem with melee units is that they're really never safe anymore. Either they get shot after killing an enemy, or they get shot after not killing an enemy who disengages. It doesn't help that, with the combat phase being the only phase to have alternating activations, you have literally no reason to keep your ranged units in melee unless you think they can score a surprise win. This is why stratagems like White Scars are underwhelming, I feel. You really won't be in melee more than one turn unless your opponent seriously has no other option. The real problem is, how do you balance it so melee units don't make ranged units completely helpless?
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Oct 22, 2017 22:55
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JoshTheStampede posted:Yeah it's extremely fluffy and good to have conscripts and commissars be completely ineffective units that no one will ever take, I love those. They're still the best wounds per point in the entire game and stuck next to a commissar their low leadership stops being as much of a problem, they've gone from being the best unit in the game for screening and holding ground by miles to being merely good.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:56
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The Bee posted:
Not giving them the option is your goal though, you only need to baselock minimum one dude to stop the entire squad from leaving.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:59
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Even with these changes Guard are still going to be a top tier army. This will just make it so there are viable ways to fight back.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:59
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Artum posted:Not giving them the option is your goal though, you only need to baselock minimum one dude to stop the entire squad from leaving. I've yet to have something base locked in the games I've played. There is always room to move out. I could flood the feild with 30 raptors but outside high roll deep strike charges they never can swarm hard enough where stuff just goes "lol see ya" an almost every opponent has a method to shoot after an not care via fly or marine tactics or wraith guard who can just step back an auto kill anything in 8 inches.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:08
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The Bee posted:The real problem is, how do you balance it so melee units don't make ranged units completely helpless? Add a generic 1CP Strategem that allows a melee unit to make an additional charge roll to follow up on a disengaging unit? So you can retain melee connection, but it'll possibly fail and it's gonna start eating into your CP's pretty quickly?
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Oct 22, 2017 23:16
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For_Great_Justice posted:I've yet to have something base locked in the games I've played. There is always room to move out. I could flood the feild with 30 raptors but outside high roll deep strike charges they never can swarm hard enough where stuff just goes "lol see ya" an almost every opponent has a method to shoot after an not care via fly or marine tactics or wraith guard who can just step back an auto kill anything in 8 inches. Again your goal is generally to lock one dude and you do that with your pile in and consolidate rather than your charge. If my dumb rear end can do it with squads of 5 the rest of you can do it with squads of 10
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Oct 22, 2017 23:16
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Base locking seems like it might be feasible for Hormagants, because they have huge numbers and a 6 inch pile in move. Even then, though, you need to Ice Capade around their base in a way that brings you a quarter inch or so closer while also maneuvering behind them. Even then, it works best against small units, units already blocked on one side by cover, and units where falling back would actually have a risk (ex: ObSec space marines covering the point trying to wiggle out of your Berserker cone of shame.) Good point, though. MSU units each taking a differerent corner, or multi-side flank charges, probably makes boxing in a lot more efficient. It also gives you two swings for their every one.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:18
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The Bee posted:Berserker cone of shame. I have my first encounter with that this tuesday, I'm not looking forward to it.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:22
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JoshTheStampede posted:Summary Execution is mandatory and has a good chance of making things worse. If you needed a 1 and rolled a two, congrats, you lose a model and reroll into a worse result. Commissars make your army actively worse now. These guys look ridiculously badass, nice work.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:27
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How posable/customizable are the marine biker kits? Like, if you ran an all-bike army, are you just gonna have tons of duplicate dudes or can they be made to look a little different?
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Oct 22, 2017 23:30
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can't speak for the ravenwing stuff but the old bikers are pretty much interchangeable with regular marine bits from the waist up.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:40
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goose willis posted:How posable/customizable are the marine biker kits? Like, if you ran an all-bike army, are you just gonna have tons of duplicate dudes or can they be made to look a little different? From making more bikes across marines an csm than I can count its both fun and customisable. Giving one a pistal arm, or chainsword arm or holding a melta/plasma gun can make them not identical. Characters on bikes are very fun to build.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:46
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Bike surfing or bust.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:51
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Artum posted:Bike surfing or bust. 
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Oct 23, 2017 00:01
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Guys I'm torn. Everyone says Eldar are pretty sweet but on the other hand no new aspect warriors. gently caress GW or no?
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Oct 23, 2017 00:23
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Boon posted:gently caress GW HEY
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Oct 23, 2017 00:33
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The Bee posted:Base locking seems like it might be feasible for Hormagants, because they have huge numbers and a 6 inch pile in move. Even then, though, you need to Ice Capade around their base in a way that brings you a quarter inch or so closer while also maneuvering behind them. Even then, it works best against small units, units already blocked on one side by cover, and units where falling back would actually have a risk (ex: ObSec space marines covering the point trying to wiggle out of your Berserker cone of shame.) Everyone says "beer and chips" game, then whip out the laser pointer and measure each loving nano-meter during combat to squeeze out every last bit of movement. Fiddly and annoying.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:38
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LordAba posted:Everyone says "beer and chips" game, then whip out the laser pointer and measure each loving nano-meter during combat to squeeze out every last bit of movement. Fiddly and annoying. I dont go the trouble of varnishing my poo poo to go and get chip dust on it. 
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Oct 23, 2017 00:40
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Boon posted:Guys I'm torn. Everyone says Eldar are pretty sweet but on the other hand no new aspect warriors. You know the answer gently caress GW
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Oct 23, 2017 00:43
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Buy More
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Oct 23, 2017 00:50
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LordAba posted:Everyone says "beer and chips" game, then whip out the laser pointer and measure each loving nano-meter during combat to squeeze out every last bit of movement. Fiddly and annoying. This is the eternal hypocritical argument with Hams. Its for fun! Then they do that poo poo. These are just fun fluffy rules! Then they exploit them to the fullest via spam or loop holes. Just own it. Admit you want to steam roll every game with your my mans army.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:57
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In it's latest edition Warmachine just dumped break tests completely, and literally no one misses it. I really wonder if having them in 40k at all is necessary.
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Oct 23, 2017 01:00
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StuG Jeebus posted:In it's latest edition Warmachine just dumped break tests completely, and literally no one misses it. I really wonder if having them in 40k at all is necessary. I dunno, in Warhammer-scale games, that just feels like it'd lead to "Who can fit the most bodies onto their side of the board" and result in a big Civil War-esque stand-and-shoot dirge.
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Oct 23, 2017 01:02
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For 90 man conscrpit units? Yes. Edit: In wmh the game is built around straight murder. In 40k its built around insanity and buckets of dice. Morale is there because watching two marine armies slug it out an stagnate because atsknf said they could just say gently caress it and keep fighting for hours was completely uninteresting and lovely. For_Great_Justice fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 01:02
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StuG Jeebus posted:In it's latest edition Warmachine just dumped break tests completely, and literally no one misses it. I really wonder if having them in 40k at all is necessary. I had someone lose the last 2 chaos terminators in a squad due to morale, was pretty rad.
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Oct 23, 2017 01:03
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How decent are these boys as Valhallans? 
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Oct 23, 2017 01:09
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goose willis posted:How decent are these boys as Valhallans? Real shrimpy apparently http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/2/21/20765-Artizan,%20Bolt%20Action,%20Crusader,%20Scale,%20World%20War%202.jpg
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Oct 23, 2017 01:25
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That seems to be an older metal model, unless I don't understand Bolt Action's model line very well
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Oct 23, 2017 01:27
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