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BarbarianElephant posted:I'm lazy, just count all the guys who've replied to me with something like "YOU POSTIN BAD" well known indication of radical leftist accelerationism, Not Liking My Posts
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Oct 23, 2017 18:27
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BarbarianElephant posted:I'm lazy, just count all the guys who've replied to me with something like "YOU POSTIN BAD" Well it is. You seem to think that the only reason someone would change from obama to trump was racism, and do not consider other motivations, even if they are irrational. You suggest that Trump screwing up big enough could resolve this, ignoring that it still doesn't solve the greater problems of America. Which if we just get another Obama, will only get worse. You also make the naive pendulum swing argument that ignores that it requires people be mtivated to put a different part in power, not just "Hey look at how bad the assholes in power are". Look I am going to try to be nice to you, and ask, so do you think that the trajectroy we are on is actually conductive to the long term order of the USA? Do you think we are heading in a direction that will ensure long term stability for everyone? If not what do you think should be done? Heck Yes! Loam! posted:More white terrorists that the media chooses not to cover I'd vote for him, but that is also because he's a friend of my parents friend and I got to talk to him several times. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 18:34
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:How would the leftist folks in here feel about Al Franken at this point? would he generate excitement and interest, or is he seen as more of the same? Depends on the leftist, but for me it's just more of the same. He's not bad, don't get me wrong, and I definitely would have preferred Clinton to Trump, but there's zero excitement going on for anyone for me except maybe a little for Harris, and that's just because she'd be a woman and a POC as the president at the same time and that'd be real cool to see. Framing everything around the presidency just won't work for me, and I honestly don't expect to see a truly progressive president for a very long time, if ever. Progressive policy needs progressive congresspeople, not presidents. Those are just a perk. The DNC's downticket races are what I care about, and it's kind of a shitshow down there because it seems like they're still fighting to see whether the old guard gets ousted or they keep doing the same thing they've been doing. I'll get excited if we get some younger bernies into the house or something, because it'll feel like progressives will have a stronger foothold for future elections, and more ability to do more lefty things sooner.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:34
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Ytlaya posted:My speculation is that, in my cases, this is due to liberals facing significant criticism from their left to an extent that hasn't really happened in recent decades. I think a lot of this "anti-leftist" (for lack of a better term) sentiment is a sort of defensive thing so some liberals can preserve their idea of "where they stand" in the American political environment, though I'm sure there are other reasons as well that I'm not aware of. I think this is true, and you've all seen me guilty of this exact thing. The carpet got pulled out from under us in 2016, and many that considered themselves part of the good guy team are trying to wrap their heads around the new normal. We either have to adapt and update our internal political barometers, or get crushed by trumpism. the left has been pushing for what we need for a long time, and the democrats adopted some things, but ignored the majority of the advocacy while activley making GBS threads on the left. Dems have the issue of not wanting to upset the applecart, or burn things down, but in 2016 when things were burning down around us, we all reacted with "this is fine". I may not agree with many of the leftists here, but I can't say they are not wrong when it comes to the above. So thanks for helping a self identified centrist to learn and embrace the left leaning future. I still think many of you are assholes, but you're assholes that are right. Also, please give other centrists some benefit of the doubt as the voting populace is generally more comfortable with left leaning policies than the actual elected officials.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:36
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I don't remember if timberlands are a good brand, but I know my Red Wings will outlive me.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:37
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Ytlaya posted:I've said this before, but I think what you should really be thinking about is why this bothers and concerns you so much. Because I'm pretty left wing myself, and I see younger left-wingers spiraling into hate and despair and wanting to burn the whole country down, hating people a smidge more right-wing than them more than actual fascists. I see people who would rather Trump become dictator for life than entertain the thought of taking the responsibility of electing an imperfect politician. I've been voting 20 years now and I can tell you that *every* politician is imperfect. If you look close enough to any of them, they are all lousy. But some of them have left the world a little better than they found it, and that's how things get better. Trump and his ilk scare me, and it scares me that young people are thinking of him as a "typical conservative, no big deal if he gets in again as long as we don't have another disappointing Democrat. Gotta teach the Democrats a lesson." rather than a direct threat to US democracy and possibly the existence of human life (if he starts tossing nukes.)
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Oct 23, 2017 18:42
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Chomskyan posted:They'll expand private prisons but pass a new law requiring them all to be completely powered by renewable energy I lol’d at this but I contend it also isn’t fair considering that Obama’s was in the active process of phasing out private prisons at the federal level last year, iirc.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:43
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BarbarianElephant posted:I'm lazy, just count all the guys who've replied to me with something like "YOU POSTIN BAD" No. Back up your claim, please.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:48
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Rockopolis posted:I think it's called kingmaker - you can't win on your own, but you can decide if someone else loses and use that to extract concessions. It’s not a super convincing threat. Keep in mind that the average person threatening to withhold their vote is in a far more precarious situation with regards to Republican policy than the Democratic politicians support for whom is to be withheld. Diane Feinstein isn’t going to be materially affected by Trump. Nancy Pelosi isn’t going to be materially affected by Trump. When you hold a gun to your own head and threaten to shoot, politicians aren’t going to feel it when you pull the trigger.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:48
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Majorian posted:No. You mean carefully go back 10 pages and copy-paste all the people who dogpiled on me? No thanks, that sounds about as much fun as a pap smear.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:51
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BarbarianElephant posted:Trump and his ilk scare me, and it scares me that young people are thinking of him as a "typical conservative, no big deal if he gets in again as long as we don't have another disappointing Democrat. Gotta teach the Democrats a lesson." rather than a direct threat to US democracy and possibly the existence of human life (if he starts tossing nukes.) I do consider him a "typical conservative", though in the sense that I thought any repub winning would be some level of disastrous. The main difference is an utter lack of rhetorical or political subtlety, and even that is questionable if we're talking about, say, Cruz.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:51
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BarbarianElephant posted:You mean carefully go back 10 pages and copy-paste all the people who dogpiled on me? No thanks, that sounds about as much fun as a pap smear. Then don’t make stupid-rear end claims like “Over 50% of posters here say they’re never going to vote Dem again,” if you’re not willing to substantiate them. 
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Oct 23, 2017 18:57
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BarbarianElephant posted:I've been voting 20 years now and I can tell you that *every* politician is imperfect. If you look close enough to any of them, they are all lousy. Bullshit. Nobody is asking for perfect, they are asking for good.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:02
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BarbarianElephant posted:Because I'm pretty left wing myself, and I see younger left-wingers spiraling into hate and despair and wanting to burn the whole country down, hating people a smidge more right-wing than them more than actual fascists. I see people who would rather Trump become dictator for life than entertain the thought of taking the responsibility of electing an imperfect politician. If he starts tossing nukes, we are dead. Guess what? He can do that at any time? Meanwhile though the people whose policies allowed him to have enough of a headwind to get into the oval office are still in charge of the democrats. They shouldn't be in charge and do deserve to be "taught a lesson". Also its not if a politicians is imperfect, its if they refuse to make things better. "We're a capitalist party says Pelosi". Or "If single-payer healthcare is going to mean the complete takeover by the government of all healthcare, I am not there."" As Feinstein said. Or as Munchin of WV said he wants to be primaried by those mad at him for not backing medicare for all. We should remove him, Pelosi, and Feinstein. These people are why the democrats lost and they sould no longer run the show. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 19:03
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Democrats are not very good right now.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:03
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I think this is true, and you've all seen me guilty of this exact thing. The carpet got pulled out from under us in 2016, and many that considered themselves part of the good guy team are trying to wrap their heads around the new normal. We either have to adapt and update our internal political barometers, or get crushed by trumpism. the left has been pushing for what we need for a long time, and the democrats adopted some things, but ignored the majority of the advocacy while activley making GBS threads on the left. Dems have the issue of not wanting to upset the applecart, or burn things down, but in 2016 when things were burning down around us, we all reacted with "this is fine". Loam, you should probably kindle, audible, whatever that Thomas Frank "Listen Liberal" book, while you may not agree with it, it will certainly help you understand why some of your political allies are as aggressive as they are. You're pretty much the taget audience. I'm further left than Frank and it certainly spelled things out for me. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 19:07
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RuanGacho posted:Loan, you should probably kindle, audible, whatever that Thomas Frank "Listen Liberal" book, while you may not agree with it, it will certainly help you understand why some of your political allies are as aggressive as they are. You're pretty much the taget audience. I've had this on my reading list for a while. I will bump it to the top. Thanks!
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Oct 23, 2017 19:08
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:It’s not a super convincing threat. Keep in mind that the average person threatening to withhold their vote is in a far more precarious situation with regards to Republican policy than the Democratic politicians support for whom is to be withheld. Diane Feinstein isn’t going to be materially affected by Trump. Nancy Pelosi isn’t going to be materially affected by Trump. When you hold a gun to your own head and threaten to shoot, politicians aren’t going to feel it when you pull the trigger. Put another way, it'd ensuring that they they too are "persuadable voters".
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Oct 23, 2017 19:11
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https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/922518408540934144
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Oct 23, 2017 19:14
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BarbarianElephant posted:Because I'm pretty left wing myself, and I see younger left-wingers spiraling into hate and despair and wanting to burn the whole country down, hating people a smidge more right-wing than them more than actual fascists. I see people who would rather Trump become dictator for life than entertain the thought of taking the responsibility of electing an imperfect politician. See, I've been voting for close to 20 years now myself, and from my perspective, voting for lesser evil Democrats is what got us here and that's why I can't justify voting for a candidate anymore just because they have a D next to their name. The party needs to change or die out.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:21
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Nonsense posted:Democrats are not very good right now. The only argument for the current way the Democratic is managed would be if they won elections but they don't even do that.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:21
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https://twitter.com/ACapaccio/status/922525835738976257 Edit: https://twitter.com/VeraMBergen/status/922528014373703685 So, no, it's not about North Korea or Iran and I get the feeling this is a repeat of that one general who took the fall for that awful raid in Yemen.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:23
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The only mechanism which has been proven effective to stop worker mistreatment is a labor union.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:25
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It's interesting to watch the Democrats make symbolic concessions while trying to crown the same old empty suit Ossoffs and call that unity. They don't understand that the only thing they could offer anyone left of Reagan is that they could get elected. In that case, great. The decline of our society is slightly slowed down for a bit. Now devoid of that they can offer nothing. I'm guessing the right wing of the party thinks they can ride out an anti-Trump wave next year and take back Congress. The House might be possible if you hired the best and brightest to run the campaigns, not the same old nepotism chud chowderheads. The wind seems to be blowing against Trump. But who's going to be chomping at the bit to vote for Jon Ossoff Junior, no matter how hard Donna Brazile runs his campaign. As it stands I'm happy to get involved in local politics but Tom Perez can suck the poo poo out of my puckered rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:43
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/opinion/sunday/jimmy-carter-lusts-trump-posting.html I dont think I saw anyone talk about the Carter interview. quote:during the interview than he was on Trump. Both Carter and Trump had stern, demanding fathers. “Daddy expected me to be perfect,” Carter told me. “So I obeyed his orders and his wishes.” Lotta fun bits in here. I'm really surprised that Carter and Obama are on such bad terms.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:45
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BarbarianElephant posted:Because I'm pretty left wing myself, and I see younger left-wingers spiraling into hate and despair and wanting to burn the whole country down, hating people a smidge more right-wing than them more than actual fascists. I see people who would rather Trump become dictator for life than entertain the thought of taking the responsibility of electing an imperfect politician. You keep coming out with things like this but when pressed don't seem to have any examples. This is why you're getting the kind of responses you are. Have a word with yourself.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:49
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mcmagic posted:How so? From what I recall you were more conservative several years ago. Specifically during Obama vs McCain. Although I could be remembering incorrectly. Regardless it, It is a compliment. Nonsense posted:Democrats are not very good right now. Accurate. Grapplejack posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/opinion/sunday/jimmy-carter-lusts-trump-posting.html Carter does not sound great here. It reads like "White man passive aggressively disappointed that black person did their own thing." Which isn't to say, I don't like Carter, because I do. It just reads strange to me. Not just his quotes but possibly the way the piece was written as well. Koalas March fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 19:52
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Honestly Carter is so old and such a complicated person in terms of his place in American history that I can't say I think it matters terribly what dumb things he may or may not say in interviews. "We did an interview with Carter" might as well be "we went to the old folks' home and interviewed them about politics" for all the meaningful relevance it has to us.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:55
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Lightning Knight posted:Honestly Carter is so old and such a complicated person in terms of his place in American history that I can't say I think it matters terribly what dumb things he may or may not say in interviews. 
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Oct 23, 2017 19:56
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Grapplejack posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/opinion/sunday/jimmy-carter-lusts-trump-posting.html It was also refreshing to hear him push back against the Russia hysteria 
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Oct 23, 2017 19:56
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Iron Twinkie posted:See, I've been voting for close to 20 years now myself, and from my perspective, voting for lesser evil Democrats is what got us here and that's why I can't justify voting for a candidate anymore just because they have a D next to their name. The party needs to change or die out. I'm so old that I voted for the other Clinton and agree with this. As a great example people on this forum constantly tout a third party candidate running for Gov of Maine as to why we have LePage instead of looking at the anemic Dem candidate who was terrible, out of touch and didn't even campaign. Her concession speech was all about how her granddaughter had made it into the state legislature and how great that was for the future. The Dem's in Maine have steadfastly opposed any sort of ranked choice voting, I assume because if we had that the Dem selling point of 'Have you seen the other guys?!' would be even less effective than it already is.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:57
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Koalas March posted:Carter does not sound here. It reads like "White man passive aggressively disappointed that black person did their own thing." It sounds like it might be completely because of Obama's policies towards the Middle East; that's always been Carter's pet foreign policy concern. Chomskyan posted:It was also refreshing to hear him push back against the Russia hysteria Rosalynn sounds fun as hell. 
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Oct 23, 2017 19:59
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It's Maureen Dowd. Even the title of the piece is a troll.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:00
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:That's actually a critical part to understanding the current climate. If many feel the dam has already been breached then it makes sense. literally the only thing keeping 20 million people on their insurance plans is because the fat orange dumbass never watched schoolhouse rock. the dam is loving gone
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Oct 23, 2017 20:04
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It would be pretty ironic if Sanders supporters took up Jimmy Carter as some kind of model Democrat, given what his policies were as President.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:04
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Maybe Carter wants to meet with Donnie so he can do what he should have done with Reagan.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:05
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PhazonLink posted:Maybe Carter wants to meet with Donnie so he can do what he should have done with Reagan. If he wanted to do that January 20th would've been all sorts of violent fun and fancy free instead of crazy, confusing and awful.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:07
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Democrazy posted:It would be pretty ironic if Sanders supporters took up Jimmy Carter as some kind of model Democrat, given what his policies were as President. They aren't, and they won't.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:07
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Democrazy posted:It would be pretty ironic if Sanders supporters took up Jimmy Carter as some kind of model Democrat, given what his policies were as President. or even his governorship
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Oct 23, 2017 20:07
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Koalas March posted:Carter does not sound great here. It reads like "White man passive aggressively disappointed that black person did their own thing." Sounded to me that he was doing a longform version of the fairly widespread "Candidate Obama was great, President Obama was disappointing" especially given the ME references.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:14
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