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I don't want to make a post that's just 100 repeating thunks so picture this post as 100 repeating thunks as you read
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Oct 23, 2017 20:07
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Someone in here not too long ago argued something really weird w/r/t the number of viable decks in Modern. Was it that Modern wasn't really diverse because the decks weren't really different, or that there were too many decks that needed narrow sideboard answers to survive, or what? The biggest flaw with modern imo is there's a lot powerful decks but they all have a different axis of interaction. burn only cares about your life total, storm only cares about their hand, tron only cares about their lands etc. etc. If you're slower than your opponent and can't interact with the things they care about, then you're extremely unfavored game 1. This leads to a lot of lopsided matchups but fortunately the format is extremely diverse so you won't run into those lopsided matchups very often. Sickening posted:A pro was bitching about modern having too many decks and you can't sideboard against them all. I say boo loving hoo. The real reason pros hate modern is the big testing teams can't get a competitive advantage against people who just play the format constantly. Some random who's played living end for the last four years is going to know the matchup better than them and that's simply unacceptable.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:11
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E: Yeah this take was too hot Modern is fine, it just needs more cheap interaction spells and other interesting non-creature ways to play the game
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Oct 23, 2017 20:13
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Modern needs counterspell and wasteland
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Oct 23, 2017 20:15
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sit on my Facebook posted:Modern needs counterspell and wasteland I think Force would be better for Modern than Counterspell I want them to print 1U counter target spell with CMC 4 or less but I don't know that they'll ever do that
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Oct 23, 2017 20:17
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Why do you have to find something else? The deck did well and will be tried out for a week or two and then die down, people aren't going to want to buy vials and caverns for that one deck if they didn't already have them, and if they did why does that mean you can't play anymore? Bad players like to play rogue decks because it's a release valve that excuses how bad they are. "Sure I might have gone 2-4 but *extremely Sinatra voice* I did it myyyyyyy waaaaaaay" Now that the deck has been established as Actually Good they have no excuse to be losing with that deck, so they get mad because they no longer have any Brew Cred. Also people might start sideboarding against them and then they go 1-5 next time.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:21
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think Force would be better for Modern than Counterspell Hell, I'd be ok with UU counter target spell 4cmc or less. It'd still be crazy good.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:25
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jassi007 posted:Hell, I'd be ok with UU counter target spell 4cmc or less. It'd still be crazy good. Isn't mana leak essentially this in 90% of modern games?
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Oct 23, 2017 20:30
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You don't want Force in Modern with storm....
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Oct 23, 2017 20:41
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ShaneB posted:Isn't mana leak essentially this in 90% of modern games? Not when you really need it to be.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:45
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All of those counterspell ideas are super marginal upgrades to logic knot.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:47
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little munchkin posted:I'm afraid I've got some bad news... Lol Someone post the chart of modern deck finishes over time
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Oct 23, 2017 20:53
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suicidesteve posted:Not when you really need it to be. Yeah, I guess something like a late-game removal spell off the top is going to get successfully cast into a Mana Leak no matter what.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:02
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I wonder how many decks in Modern just flat-out couldn't be configured to beat two Wastelands.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:03
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Attorney at Funk posted:I wonder how many decks in Modern just flat-out couldn't be configured to beat two Wastelands. A lot
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Oct 23, 2017 21:10
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Print Flusterstorm in a modern legal set.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:20
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Ask Me For Warez posted:Print Flusterstorm in a modern legal set. Flusterstorm is too good for Modern.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:29
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mcmagic posted:Flusterstorm is too good for Modern. What? How?
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Oct 23, 2017 21:41
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TheKingofSprings posted:Powerful cards are more fun to play with than less powerful cards In a vacuum, this is true, lord knows Carnage Tyrant is a lot more fun than Colossal Dreadmaw. But you have to consider the effects of powerful cards on the ability to play a game. No one could meld poo poo in when Eldritch Moon came out because Bant Coco was a hideous mixture of good cards producing too much advantage. Aetherworks Marvel and Smuggler's Copter are good cards - too good. Bans don't happen to weak cards, after all. It also affects what kinds of games can be played. The existence of a deck like Infect in Modern means you have to go fairly fast lest their ability to make a Glistener Elf swell to ten times its normal size and instantly destroy you before you can finish saying "Nani!?" Delver decks in Legacy plant one really efficient threat and then disrupt the gently caress out of you with cheap/free counters and wasteland, meaning you have to have the kind of gameplan that can withstand your poo poo getting smacked around that much, which, as it turns out, isn't a lot. That's a lot stronger than Standard, but maybe people don't want to play games that can very well effectively end on turn 4 because you just ran out of lands to get blown up and you're 12 life behind from one loving bug dude. I mean, maybe someone wants to be able to cast Carnage Tyrant without fear they will never, ever hit 6 mana, ever?
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Oct 23, 2017 21:41
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Modern is cool and good IMO but I only get to play it once or twice a month which maybe keeps it feeling fresher in my mind than it actually is. I can't imagine doing it multiple times a week without rotating between different decks.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:43
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suicidesteve posted:What? How? It's too good as protection for combo decks.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:53
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ShaneB posted:Isn't mana leak essentially this in 90% of modern games? No. Tron is a deck, (though i've caught greedy tron players with their perfect turn 3 tron setup before with it) and hard control decks that want Counterspell want the game to go on long enough that decks start being able to pay the tax. Mana Leak is only playable in decks that have some way to close out the game quickly once they stick a threat, and need to protect that threat or just slow down the opponent long enough for them to what they need too.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:08
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So I've been kicking around a thought experiment for a few weeks about counterspells. What kind of additional downside or conditionality would a {U/P} {U/P} counterspell have to have? {U/P} {U/P} "Counter target spell with cost 4 or less" is probably still too good.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:19
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TVsVeryOwn posted:So I've been kicking around a thought experiment for a few weeks about counterspells. I'd say at minimum discarding a card if you cast it without paying mana. Maybe a card for each mana you don't pay.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:23
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TVsVeryOwn posted:So I've been kicking around a thought experiment for a few weeks about counterspells. "Exile all other spells you control".
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Oct 23, 2017 22:25
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TVsVeryOwn posted:So I've been kicking around a thought experiment for a few weeks about counterspells. just so we're clear, this card is better than Force of Will
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Oct 23, 2017 22:28
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{U/P}{U/P} mental misstep might be fine because it would no longer be the best answer to itself. It might be that one-drops are too good to stop playing even with that in the format and it just makes life miserable instead of slowing the format down though
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Oct 23, 2017 22:30
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TVsVeryOwn posted:So I've been kicking around a thought experiment for a few weeks about counterspells. Do you want it to be remotely playable? I feel that would jump the line from "utterly unplayable" to "broken" with no room in between depending on wording. It'd have to be conditional, and probably shouldn't be able to counter itself. Maaaaaybe "Counter target spell that wasn't cast from a player's hand. Draw a card." "Counter target spell unless it's controller pays life equal to it's converted casting cost." "Counter target creature, enchantment, artifact, or Planeswalker spell. It's controller reveals cards from the top of their deck until they reveal a card that shares a type with the countered spell and puts it onto the battlefield. Put the other revealed cards on the bottom of library in random order." "As an additional cost to cast exile a blue card from your hand and pay 1 life. Counter target spell." FWIW I think U{U/P} would likely be possible to balance.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:33
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Don't think they'd make a mega-polymorph counterspell.
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Oct 23, 2017 23:36
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mcmagic posted:You don't want Force in Modern with storm.... this is uh, probably actually true
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Oct 23, 2017 23:44
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Don't think they'd make a mega-polymorph counterspell. A drat shame.
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Oct 24, 2017 00:33
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Don't think they'd make a mega-polymorph counterspell. I could see it if you can't hit your own spells with it
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Oct 24, 2017 00:54
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I do too. There was that lovely removal spell from khans block that was similar.
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Oct 24, 2017 01:24
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PJOmega posted:"Counter target spell that wasn't cast from a player's hand. Draw a card." Narrower than Hank Hill's urethra. quote:"Counter target spell unless it's controller pays life equal to it's converted casting cost." Bad punishers tend to be bad. This is no exception. quote:"Counter target creature, enchantment, artifact, or Planeswalker spell. It's controller reveals cards from the top of their deck until they reveal a card that shares a type with the countered spell and puts it onto the battlefield. Put the other revealed cards on the bottom of library in random order." Tape "an opponent controls" clause to it, because otherwise you just created the weirdest loving polymorph that can't be answered with Swords. quote:"As an additional cost to cast exile a blue card from your hand and pay 1 life. Counter target spell." Only if it cost 0. Or maybe if it cost about 5 with the free cast as an option, maybe?
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Oct 24, 2017 02:23
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PJOmega posted:Do you want it to be remotely playable? I feel that would jump the line from "utterly unplayable" to "broken" with no room in between depending on wording. It'd have to be conditional, and probably shouldn't be able to counter itself. {u/p}{u/p} Counter Target Spell Skip your next two turns.
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Oct 24, 2017 02:29
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So is Legacy the Best format? Asking for a degenerate High Tide playing friend.
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Oct 24, 2017 02:53
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I still think some cards could be unbanned in modern without killing diversity, but idk if it will happen
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Oct 24, 2017 02:59
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You could maybe make a {U/P}{U/P} Nix and it'd be ok I guess.
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Oct 24, 2017 03:04
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Smashing Link posted:So is Legacy the Best format? Asking for a degenerate High Tide playing friend. I have the most fun playing Legacy. Standard is second.
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Oct 24, 2017 03:06
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Smashing Link posted:So is Legacy the Best format? Asking for a degenerate High Tide playing friend. edit: Okay, I've never played Legacy aside from a goon tourny or two. But cube is sweet.
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Oct 24, 2017 03:08
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