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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah in a game full of weirdly boring ideas, Mcrees kit being “shoot mans, shoot mans again, somersault, firecracker” seems so ridiculous and I have no idea how to maneuver my mouse so that FTH does anything. not sure what you mean here. just point it at the guy you want to shoot? if you're trying to snipe with it, that's where you're loving up. think of it like a shotgun if that helps
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Oct 23, 2017 19:39
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:She's weak enough you could probably do both. I'm more concerned about the declining pool of viable DPS characters, though, and the extent to which mobility and burst damage are the only things that qualify a DPS for regular high-level use. Mei probably wouldn't be a natural fit for dive so making her a capable DPS would both solve the problem of Mei not really filling any role, while also creating a new DPS whose strengths lie elsewhere than the current top DPS characters. Just wanting to get your opinion, but which DPS characters do you think could use a buff? Reaper, Doomfist, Sombra, Pharah, Hanzo and Mei?
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Oct 23, 2017 19:42
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I mean the actual answer is that you don't want to use Fan the Hammer because it's largely a vestigial holdover ability that they never really found a use for once it was nerfed from its original "kill everything" state. I guess it's good for spamming down barriers? Otherwise it doesn't really do anything that you can't do better by just learning how to click heads.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:42
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that's not really true? I mean, you usually wouldn't do the flashbang/fan combo anymore if your aim is actually good but it's not useless. even pros use it to kill people in actual matches and they have way better aim than we do it's nice for barriers and hitting tanks that get too close since it does more damage than a headshot. 2 fans will still kill zarya from full health. if your aim sucks then the flashbang combo is still more reliable with fan than it is trying to line up a headshot
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Oct 23, 2017 19:46
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FaustianQ posted:Just wanting to get your opinion, but which DPS characters do you think could use a buff? Reaper, Doomfist, Sombra, Pharah, Hanzo and Mei? Pharah I would be cautious of, I don't think it would take much to make her scary good and she's extremely mobile already. Similarly, Sombra doesn't really function as a DPS but she does function as an oddball support and is quite good in that niche -- although I'd probably eliminate her stupid-loud callout coming out of stealth just on general principle. But yeah, I'd like to see Mei get major buffs; I'd like to see Junkrat's gun improved, maybe at the expense of his other abilities if necessary (data scraped from comp suggests he's better than people think, but tournament play is still really cold on him), McCree given a little nudge (he probably doesn't need much), and while I wouldn't want Hanzo to be buffed as long as Scatter Arrow exists, if they replaced it with something better that would be excellent. Oh, and bring back old Roadhog, because he's basically DPS for these purposes.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:48
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Kai Tave posted:I mean the actual answer is that you don't want to use Fan the Hammer because it's largely a vestigial holdover ability that they never really found a use for once it was nerfed from its original "kill everything" state. I guess it's good for spamming down barriers? Otherwise it doesn't really do anything that you can't do better by just learning how to click heads. Maybe give McCree a passive vs barriers? "Hypervelocity": do double damage to barriers? I don't think that changes the cost/benefit of FTH vs LMB vs Orisa, Winston or Reinhardt, does it? Possible side effect of McCree now aggressively making GBS threads on Zarya? poo poo, maybe not double, McCree can then go all in on deleting an Orisa barrier near instantly then, essentially vaporizes Winstons shield and halves Reinhardt's barrier. He'd be loving mandatory and the game would revolve around him. Maybe just a 50% increase.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:48
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Doomfist is currently languishing in Hanzo tier after his hitbox nerfs so yeah, he could probably use some fixing up.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:49
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I don't know why he was nerfed to begin with. I never thought he was overly dominant. Yeah he'd get his pick frequently, but he was essentially trading himself because he'd usually immediately die after getting it. And he'd have even less value now anyways with Mercy's rez even if his hit box wasn't nerfed.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:50
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't know why he was nerfed to begin with. People complaining that getting one-punched was unfair, basically.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:52
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Make FTH shoot even more wildly and then undo the damage nerf. As noted, a single pick has very low value with the mercy rez in it's current state, so the logic that lead to its nerf no longer holds.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:56
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Give Mei 300 HP and bankshot icicles.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:57
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:She's weak enough you could probably do both. I'm more concerned about the declining pool of viable DPS characters, though, and the extent to which mobility and burst damage are the only things that qualify a DPS for regular high-level use. Mei probably wouldn't be a natural fit for dive so making her a capable DPS would both solve the problem of Mei not really filling any role, while also creating a new DPS whose strengths lie elsewhere than the current top DPS characters. for what it's worth Mei has the second lowest non-support DPS in the game, averaging around 8900 damage/10 minutes (Winston is the lowest at 8400/10). If you remove the tanks you get her at 8900, Doomfist somewhere below 10k, and then everyone else above 10k. Her icicles are a little bursty, but her general DPS is incredibly low, and she either needs to be MUCH better at CC (more range or more staying power) or do more damage. The former is more frustrating to play against and more likely to involve a significant overcorrection, the latter is boring. She doesn't actually have any breakpoints she's particularly close to, but reducing the windup on her secondary fire by 20% or so might be a really good move. It also might be a huge mistake. Mei is also in what I want to call the "Junkrat Bubble", where she's secretly a pretty average character but people think she's very terrible because she's got a negative correlation between winrate and skill. Any definitive buff risks her becoming, well, Junkrat, who is now incredibly dominant at any SR below 4000, but still a bad character at incredibly high skill tiers because of design. Mei similarly punishes opponent's mistakes, and thrives in places where enemies make more of those mistakes. Junkrat was actually average following his self damage change (in the +.5% to -0.5% winrate delta range), and now he's in the super-high tier (+2% to +4%) after the conc mine redesign. If Mei gets a buff, it should be a D.va/Symmetra style redesign, where they drastically redesign some of her abilities to make her more fun to play and more proactive as a character. Right now she's too niche and too easily countered to be effective at high levels, but oppressively strong at punishing bad positioning and movement at low levels. If you tune her to be effective at GM, she will be too powerful at gold, period.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:58
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Kai Tave posted:People complaining that getting one-punched was unfair, basically. Yeah this is the thing. People hate dying, and the volume of whining about any ability that kills efficiently is orders of magnitude greater than the whining about abilities that prevent / undo kills. But this is precisely the opposite of what healthy design looks like -- offense should be slightly stronger / cheaper / more flexible than defense, to promote pro-active play and discourage standoffs and stalemates.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:58
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It would be kinda cool if barriers had like, "anti-armor" where an x damage shot to a barrier did (x+10)/2 or x damage, whichever was larger. Obviously that would require a lot of retuning to get things right, so that won't happen. I think that Doomfist needed to be changed also, but the change they made was absolutely too much. They needed a fast answer to a problem, and so they made a fast change. OG Doomfist was poised to dominate the professional meta (he has a genji/tracer/sombra style strong positive correlation between skill/winrate). The Blue Caboose fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 20:04
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The formerly generous hitbox of rocketpunch combined with OW’s lag compensation made getting hit around corners feel fairly common too
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Oct 23, 2017 20:04
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Pharah I would be cautious of, I don't think it would take much to make her scary good and she's extremely mobile already. Similarly, Sombra doesn't really function as a DPS but she does function as an oddball support and is quite good in that niche -- although I'd probably eliminate her stupid-loud callout coming out of stealth just on general principle. Pharah maybe increase projectile velocity? Maybe replace HP with some armor? Pharah is as good as Hitscan is bad basically. Sombra needs to be quieter, agree, but her SMG spread and bloom could use some adjusting beyond "vague shotgunlike bullet-hose" and maybe her invisibility casting time and exit could be quicker. Also, just a thought but have her transponder have a manual cancel and giver her a warning if an enemy is within 5m of it. Maybe Mei's Cryo-Freeze also heals nearby teammates, as well as speeding up casting time and velocity of RMB? Junkrats grenade velocity increased, decrease Concussion Mine(100? So Mine+Grenade+Punch kills Reaper/Mei), increase Trap damage? I posted McCree above, and I have no idea how to fix Hanzo. Kai Tave posted:Doomfist is currently languishing in Hanzo tier after his hitbox nerfs so yeah, he could probably use some fixing up. I almost want him to be a proper tank, I think it can be done if his passive applies to his teammates as well, but my real issues if he stays DPS is 1) Ability hitboxes are not generous enough, Uppercut only seems to hit on start up rather than full animation, Seismic's cone is poo poo for a theoretical opener 2) Seismic Slam takes way too much setup to get most out of it and has negative synergy/bug with Uppercut, so fix the interaction and make it power up faster, 3) He's too all in and his supposed offensive abilities are really just a two step escape to double the chances of loving it up, have Seismic Slam and Uppercut reset on a kill with Hand Cannon or something, or just not make the cooldown on those abilities total rear end 4) Rocket Punch should just go in the direction Doomfist is pointing, period. If that's up, it's drat well up. Reduce the range if you have to to keep him from doing weird poo poo, we're already making the hitbox more generous. More times than I can count that weird geometry or a well timed jump up loving dodges the attack even if I can track them 5) Can Uppercut please go like, another 3m higher? It's annoying how it's just barely reaching a lot of places and for a dual attack mobility move it's only good use so far seems to be a setup for Seismic Slam to escape with. Tuxedo Catfish posted:Oh, and bring back old Roadhog, because he's basically DPS for these purposes. Kai Tave posted:People complaining that getting one-punched was unfair, basically. Honestly since the nerf and trying to make Doomfist work, I've 100% reversed on these kinds of abilities, but maybe don't fully bring Hog back, but do buff his damage and give him 6 shots.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:21
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Honestly don't think there's a way to fix Hanzo that doesn't just dumpster him entirely or make him too strong. His abilities are the perfect storm of bad but nightmarish to play against. Maybe reduce the cooldown time of sonic arrow so he can scout out more but apart from that gently caress if I know.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:31
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EmmyOk posted:Are you suggesting she be able to solo a tank like that? Why not? The tanks can certainly solo her. Reinhart has twice her health, 40% of which is actually armor (raising his effective health even more), plus a 2000 damage shield his teammates can fire through, plus he has better DPS than she does, plus he can one-shot her or escape her with a well-aimed charge. Kai Tave posted:People complaining that getting one-punched was unfair, basically. I feel like Doomfist's design is kind of terrible right now, because basically all his damage is packed into that one rocket punch. In my experience, basically every fight with Doomfist comes down to one thing: do I see him before he charges me? If I don't, then I'm easy pickings. If I do, I can usually avoid the rocket punch or use terrain to block him, and then he's basically just moving target practice. Basically every other damaging move he has sucks, his movement abilities put him on very predictable trajectories, and his huge hitbox makes him a really easy target, so every fight I've ever had against him boiled down to "did the rocket-punch hit or not". Maybe I just haven't fought a good Doomfist, but it always feels to me like he's even more of a one-trick pony than Roadhog ever was. At the same time, though, I don't feel like buffing the rocket punch hitbox will make him any more interesting to play against - it'll just make it impossible to dodge without a movement ability or favorable terrain.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:38
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balance ideas: lower the damage of mei's projectile but increase the rate of fire and maybe the projectile speed increase the projectile speed of doomfist's gun. this gun seriously pisses me off. hell, give it back the old infinite ammo through staggered shots like it had in beta kill hanzo
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Oct 23, 2017 20:41
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Bumper Stickup posted:Honestly don't think there's a way to fix Hanzo that doesn't just dumpster him entirely or make him too strong. His abilities are the perfect storm of bad but nightmarish to play against. Maybe reduce the cooldown time of sonic arrow so he can scout out more but apart from that gently caress if I know. I've said it before but Hanzo is a dumpster fire of design decisions. At long range the best he can do is an educated guess, but at close range he has a good chance of a miracle headshot through sheer chance. And then we've got scatter arrow, which was presumably meant for firing into a small room but when you do that it's actually kind of crap and the best use is shooting feets.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:45
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Give Mei an ice-skinned version of Junkrats steel trap or have it activate a slowing AOE like Hunters frost traps in WoW (essentially a shittier cooldown-based version of her Ult) Won’t fix her damage but it gives her some more options for crowd control
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Oct 23, 2017 20:48
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Manatee Cannon posted:balance ideas: doomfists shots should recharge independently of his firing on a fixed timer and should be hitscan imo
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Oct 23, 2017 20:50
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I actually like it being a projectile with no falloff. it's better at range than it is in close up fights weirdly. if the projectile itself were faster, you'd be able to hit people more consistently
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Oct 23, 2017 20:57
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Mei has the power to solo a Dva who tries to 1v1 her, and Dva has the power to go pick somebody else to fight because Mei can't chase her worth a drat. I play both characters and I have not felt there is a terrible balance problem here.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:06
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Spitball ideas to buff Doomfist besides just reverting the nerf: -Change his shotgun to fire slug rounds. Increase damage, reduce fire rate, up the count to five. Let hit shots charge your overshields. -Increase damage ramp up for Seismic Slam. -Give Rising Uppercut a bigger hitbox and let it hit for the full duration of the animation. Rising Uppercut now stuns when it hits. -Dumpster Seismic Slam/Rising Uppercut and give him a grapple of some sort that sets up for Rocket Punch/Shotgun. -Allow Rocket Punch to bank shot off falls. Example: Say you charge it up fully but hit a wall before hitting max distance. Now you could stick to the wall for a brief moment and fire off in a different direction equal to how much distance was left from the original punch. -Rocket punch goes in whatever direction you pick. You wanna go straight up? Now you can. -Rising Uppercut now grabs the enemy like Roadhogs hook and drags them with you into the air. Pressing Seismic Slam at any point Rising Uppercut is still in effect will cause Doomfist to slam the enemy into the ground. Pressing Rocket Punch during Rising Uppercut will send the enemy flying in whichever direction you were facing. Obviously don't apply all of these at the same time but one or two of these would be fun to play around with.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:17
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Mei should have the ability to freeze the ground to make movement faster for herself and others, making it easier to catch up to enemies. She even does this in one of her potg animations!
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Oct 23, 2017 21:23
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Yesterday I won like 7 games in a row and today I'm 0/3
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Oct 23, 2017 21:48
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FFA is a really fun guilt-free way to practise DPS
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Oct 23, 2017 22:08
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Rirse posted:Mei should have the ability to freeze the ground to make movement faster for herself and others, making it easier to catch up to enemies. She even does this in one of her potg animations! And make it slippery for her opponents like Mortal Kombat II Sub Zero's ground freeze.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:09
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OldNorthBridge posted:And make it slippery for her opponents like Mortal Kombat II Sub Zero's ground freeze. That would be perfect. Like if they are on it too long they get put into the stun animation that Reinhart's ult can cause.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:12
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Bumper Stickup posted:
This should exist already
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Oct 23, 2017 22:15
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There's still something a little weird to me about how Doomfists cooldowns are damage based but they're used 99% of the time for escape because he has zero mobility otherwise.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:48
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McCree is really fun to play and it was nice to play him in real matches instead of the practise range. Did poorly in my first FFA with him but then I started getting it a bit more end got more and more kills until I won my third or fourth one. I'm making a lot of mistakes because I'm only used to Winston and Tracer for attacking and they require you to get up close to attack whereas he needs his distance. It's a great way to get target practise on real opponents without having to worry about team comp. Also I hope I'm one of the many McCrees who discovered Genji can deflect the flashbang the hard way.
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Oct 23, 2017 22:55
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Ginette Reno posted:There's still something a little weird to me about how Doomfists cooldowns are damage based but they're used 99% of the time for escape because he has zero mobility otherwise. Doomfist's design seems like they wanted him to be making choices about how to use his cooldown, but it ends up just being M2 to attack and everything else for escape almost always, basically anything else is sub-optimal. At least that's how it was before he got nerfed into the ground. EmmyOk posted:McCree is really fun to play and it was nice to play him in real matches instead of the practise range. Did poorly in my first FFA with him but then I started getting it a bit more end got more and more kills until I won my third or fourth one. I'm making a lot of mistakes because I'm only used to Winston and Tracer for attacking and they require you to get up close to attack whereas he needs his distance. It's a great way to get target practise on real opponents without having to worry about team comp. Also I hope I'm one of the many McCrees who discovered Genji can deflect the flashbang the hard way. You can actually flash Genji through the deflect. The splash on the grenade is larger than his deflect hitbox, so if you hit the ground right in front of him or throw it over his head you can stun him. It's tricky to get right during a game, but it's especially fun to destroy Genji's that hit deflect and just stand there like theyre invulnerable. The Blue Caboose fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 22:56
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Bumper Stickup posted:Spitball ideas to buff Doomfist besides just reverting the nerf: These are the correct buffs imo. With Rocket Punch being able to go in any direction and higher ramp on Seismic Slam, all his abilities can be used as proper escapes or attacks. I'd also make uppercut move higher than currently. Casting time in meteor strike could also be better, loving McCree can dodge it. Another possible option is to put all his abilities on a universal shared cooldown with 3 or so charges so Doomfist can combo his abilities as he pleases, but that mean he just Rocket punches all the time and ignores the other two, I mean that's how bad they are.
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Oct 23, 2017 23:22
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I mean that's basically what always happens with shared resource mechanics: the best one gets used exclusively and the others are completely ignored.
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Oct 24, 2017 00:44
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FaustianQ posted:These are the correct buffs imo. With Rocket Punch being able to go in any direction and higher ramp on Seismic Slam, all his abilities can be used as proper escapes or attacks. I'd also make uppercut move higher than currently. Casting time in meteor strike could also be better, loving McCree can dodge it. I dunno, I find uppercut + headshots is way more consistent than the fist.
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Oct 24, 2017 00:55
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Dick Burglar posted:I mean that's basically what always happens with shared resource mechanics: the best one gets used exclusively and the others are completely ignored. I mean the general idea behind it is that he can actually use his other abilities as something other than a more interruptible and complicated escape. dogstile posted:I dunno, I find uppercut + headshots is way more consistent than the fist. I've been trying to make this work by gently caress it's hard without being babysat because getting in range for an uppercut with be yoinked by Roadie or stunned by McCree is a loving pain. A stun with uppercut also makes this more viable in general. Teams like to immediately focus Doomfist out of existence. EmpyreanFlux fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 00:56
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yeah this is the thing. People hate dying, and the volume of whining about any ability that kills efficiently is orders of magnitude greater than the whining about abilities that prevent / undo kills. But this is precisely the opposite of what healthy design looks like -- offense should be slightly stronger / cheaper / more flexible than defense, to promote pro-active play and discourage standoffs and stalemates. Add no death trade servers so those people have a place to frolic
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Oct 24, 2017 01:04
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There's something unsatisfying about finishing a quest line only to realize it only gives the blue print to combine the parts of a warframe and not the blueprint to the parts. Edit. Oh dear. Oh well. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 01:26
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