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Oct 25, 2017 13:33
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Shangri-Law School posted:So, $12 is in Evil Centrist territory while $15 is in Righteous $15 is too low. Adjusting the 1960 minimum wage for inflation and productivity it should be closer to $20. $15 is barely enough to survive if a politician doesn't even agree workers have a right to live, what good are they. Anyway is there an ideological difference or not. You say there's not but then here you are battling to keep the working poor away from basic survival 
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Oct 25, 2017 13:33
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VitalSigns posted:$15 is too low. Adjusting the 1960 minimum wage for inflation and productivity it should be closer to $20. $15 is barely enough to survive if a politician doesn't even agree workers have a right to live, what good are they. But $12 isn't the end goal, it's a waypoint.  It's not "Even if we can pass $15, stay at 12 anyway," it's "Try to get $15 or higher, but $12 would still be an accomplishment." For some people, $12 is their limit. But if you need one more vote, and the other guys want to repeal the minimum wage entirely, who are you going to go to for help? Anyway, if $12 is "battling to keep the working poor away from basic survival," but $15 is also not high enough, doesn't it have the same problems as $12? You will always find enemies if you're looking for them.
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Oct 25, 2017 13:56
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Oct 25, 2017 14:36
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Shangri-Law School posted:But $12 isn't the end goal, it's a waypoint. What people have been repeatedly saying to you is that asking for a quarter of what you want is a great way to get one eighth of what you want at best Better to ask for what you actually want, and if you have to settle, settle then and you'll be settling for more. Also Obamacare was also supposed to be a waypoint rather than an end goal, but then when someone suggested moving to the next step it was all "you want to destroy Obamacare and start over from scratch  "
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Oct 25, 2017 14:42
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People aren't falling for "we simply have to do small steps, it's how government has to work sorry. Maybe your kids in 20 years will benefit " anymore, especially as Trump burns down every political norm in plain sight.
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Oct 25, 2017 14:44
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$12 an hour is still not enough for a decent standard of living, and if the minimum wage is raised to $12 we'll get nothing but "what, you want more minimum wage? We just raised it! Nothing is ever good enough for you people    " from the Shangri-Law Schools of the world for ten years
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Oct 25, 2017 14:47
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I miss the good old days when hot takes and arguments in bad faith at least had ugly pictures and caricatures with them.
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Oct 25, 2017 14:53
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Radish posted:People aren't falling for "we simply have to do small steps, it's how government has to work sorry. Maybe your kids in 20 years will benefit Destroying stuff is way easier than building it up, turns out. Businesses have to adapt to an increase in minimum wage but a decrease just means throwing that extra money straight into CEO pockets
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Oct 25, 2017 14:55
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Dimebags Brain posted:Hey guys we just ate the biggest amount of poo poo any presidential candidate has ever eaten and lost to Donald Trump. If we double down on what brought us to this point surely we wont eat poo poo again. James Zogby has been with the DNC since 2001, FWIW I do agree that the Dems should revolutionize their processes, which is why we should get rid of presidential caucuses and shun anyone who supports them. D.N. Nation fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 14:55
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D.N. Nation posted:James Zogby has been with the DNC since 2001, FWIW So a 50-50 carried to that failing grade by this generations JFK.
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Oct 25, 2017 14:58
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loquacius posted:$12 an hour is still not enough for a decent standard of living, and if the minimum wage is raised to $12 we'll get nothing but "what, you want more minimum wage? We just raised it! Nothing is ever good enough for you people Well, it's a good thing Hillary lost then. 4 years of $7.25 an hour might be tough, but I'm sure that'll get my deeply-red state ready to demand full communism in 2020. Seriously, if you prize ideology over everything, you get exactly the situation republicans are dealing with now, where they own every single branch of government but can't actually enact major legislation because no one is willing to work with anyone else.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:03
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Kit Walker posted:Destroying stuff is way easier than building it up, turns out. Businesses have to adapt to an increase in minimum wage but a decrease just means throwing that extra money straight into CEO pockets Literally the only thing stopping them from "adapting" to pay raises in the same way is they don't want to have less money in CEO pockets.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:04
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Emasculator posted:Well, it's a good thing Hillary lost then. 4 years of $7.25 an hour might be tough, but I'm sure that'll get my deeply-red state ready to demand full communism in 2020. It's actually a bad thing Hillary lost, I'm just helping identify a key factor in how that happened People don't trust the Democrats to actually help them, in large part because of the kind of politics she embodies
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Oct 25, 2017 15:07
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Lurdiak posted:Literally the only thing stopping them from "adapting" to pay raises in the same way is they don't want to have less money in CEO pockets. Yeah, don't be like (spins the Wheel-O-Conservative-Idiots) Lester, who acts like paying fast food workers something better than feudal wages will result in $20 Big Macs.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:08
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D.N. Nation posted:Yeah, don't be like (spins the Wheel-O-Conservative-Idiots) Lester, who acts like paying fast food workers something better than feudal wages will result in $20 Big Macs. Those poor corporations are just FORCED to overcharge the working class for their goods to stay in business.  *CEO buys entire district in Dubai* If only the government didn't force them to pay their employees nearly half of a living wage!
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Oct 25, 2017 15:11
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Lurdiak posted:Literally the only thing stopping them from "adapting" to pay raises in the same way is they don't want to have less money in CEO pockets. Some companies run on small profit margins and jumping straight from, say, $7.25/hr to $15/hr couple really gently caress them over in a way that a gradual increase of a dollar every few months or so wouldn't.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:11
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I would say we have a pretty great test case in Seattle, but so far the conclusions are up for grabs: Minimum wage hike bad! No, but your mom is!
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Oct 25, 2017 15:14
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Kit Walker posted:Some companies run on small profit margins and jumping straight from, say, $7.25/hr to $15/hr couple really gently caress them over in a way that a gradual increase of a dollar every few months or so wouldn't. Minimum wage increases always work like that though; it's usually over the course of a few years
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Oct 25, 2017 15:14
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Kit Walker posted:Some companies run on small profit margins and jumping straight from, say, $7.25/hr to $15/hr couple really gently caress them over in a way that a gradual increase of a dollar every few months or so wouldn't. Literally no one advocates for raising the minimum wage this quickly, and I think you know that. All minimum wage increases are done gradually. Yes, doubling minimum wage overnight would cause major problems, which is why we don't do that.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:15
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Oct 25, 2017 15:30
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Kit Walker posted:Some companies run on small profit margins and jumping straight from, say, $7.25/hr to $15/hr couple really gently caress them over in a way that a gradual increase of a dollar every few months or so wouldn't. As others have said, its usually done over time. New York, for example, has passed $15/hr (for NYC and Long Island, anyway) but minimum wage won't actually shift to that $15/hr until 2019 (and not even for everyone in NYC until 2020): https://www.ny.gov/new-york-states-minimum-wage/new-york-states-minimum-wage
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Oct 25, 2017 15:36
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All these companies moving their headquarters or, in the case of amazon "second headquarters", to states where the minimum wage is the federal level is also something that gives a feather in the cap to the red states. i'm really surprised that one of the idiots hasn't made a sick burn off of all the companies moving from the "expensive" blue states to the states were human life is valued less. 
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Oct 25, 2017 15:44
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Axe-man posted:All these companies moving their headquarters or, in the case of amazon "second headquarters", to states where the minimum wage is the federal level is also something that gives a feather in the cap to the red states. i'm really surprised that one of the idiots hasn't made a sick burn off of all the companies moving from the "expensive" blue states to the states were human life is valued less. I remember when Eric Allie drew this:  Right before this, and got really pissy when people joked at him that "shouldn't the Texas car be exploding."
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Oct 25, 2017 15:53
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It's also just about optics. If you have a visible and mobilized part of your base literally calling itself "Fight for 15" and then you go "How about 12? Doesn't that sound nice?" Why would that mobilized part of your base be excited about you?
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Oct 25, 2017 15:53
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Please take this democratic primary poo poo to the containment thread.Xander77 posted:Political Cartoons and articles 1917-1918 Thank you, this is awesome! Gonna send that microbe one to some collagues. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 16:05
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Emasculator posted:Well, it's a good thing Hillary lost then. 4 years of $7.25 an hour might be tough, but I'm sure that'll get my deeply-red state ready to demand full communism in 2020. This is what drives people up the wall about Democrats, the moment you criticize their tepid strategy that continues to fail to win elections they respond by blaming everyone but themselves. It wasn't idealistic white leftists that stayed home and cost Democrats the election, it was people impacted by the issues Democrats seem so eager to jump to compromise on who stayed home. If your messaging makes it seems like you aren't willing to fight to improve their lives people aren't going to go out of their way to vote for you. That's especially important considering all the hurdles to voting that have been put up precisely to achieve this. This isn't rocket science. You need to inspire people to support you and you aren't going to do that saying things like you think it should be $15 but prefer it be $12 because *long dispassionate rambling that people won't hear because they've already tuned out*. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/registered-voters-who-stayed-home-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/
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Oct 25, 2017 16:08
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  Stiglich posted:Turns out the Clinton Campaign funded the failed witch hunt.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:09
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SwitchbladeKult posted:This is what drives people up the wall about Democrats, the moment you criticize their tepid strategy that continues to fail to win elections they respond by blaming everyone but themselves. It wasn't idealistic white leftists that stayed home and cost Democrats the election, it was people impacted by the issues Democrats seem so eager to jump to compromise on who stayed home. If your messaging makes it seems like you aren't willing to fight to improve their lives people aren't going to go out of their way to vote for you. That's especially important considering all the hurdles to voting that have been put up precisely to achieve this. This isn't rocket science. You need to inspire people to support you and you aren't going to do that saying things like you think it should be $15 but prefer it be $12 because *long dispassionate rambling that people won't hear because they've already tuned out*. Look man it's way more important to court voters who listen to rush limbaugh than to care about issues that your base is passionate about. People who have hated Hillary Clinton for 30 years and see her as nothing short of the embodiment of what they hate about liberals? Those are swing voters, my friend.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:11
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Lurdiak posted:Look man it's way more important to court voters who listen to rush limbaugh than to care about issues that your base is passionate about. People who have hated Hillary Clinton for 30 years and see her as nothing short of the embodiment of what they hate about liberals? Those are swing voters, my friend. Wait, so they shouldn't court leftists?
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Oct 25, 2017 16:13
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Lurdiak posted:Look man it's way more important to court voters who listen to rush limbaugh than to care about issues that your base is passionate about. People who have hated Hillary Clinton for 30 years and see her as nothing short of the embodiment of what they hate about liberals? Those are swing voters, my friend. all we have to do to reach those suburban republicans is triangulate... just... a little... more...
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Oct 25, 2017 16:27
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loquacius posted:all we have to do to reach those suburban republicans is triangulate... just... a little... more... *GOP shifts another 3000 miles to the right*
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Oct 25, 2017 16:28
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Hollywood has 5 RSOs. Philadelphia has almost 3000.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:37
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Huh. That's weird. I thought I was in the political cartoons thread, not... whatever this is. Oh, I am? Okay. Here, have the Canadian political cartoon response to NAFTA talks. First, an old one from when NAFTA was first signed.  And now, with Trump.     edit: fixed sizing
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Oct 25, 2017 16:48
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OMG that's the best! These cartoons are too good for this thread.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:53
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SwitchbladeKult posted:OMG that's the best! These cartoons are too good for this thread. I admit to not picking bad political cartoons so much as a random assortment. The can of worms one by Malcolm Mayes is the one in our local paper and the rest were online - one's from the Toronto Star, then the rest are just wherever. I like Mayes' art, though frequently not his opinions, so I would have put him in anyway. I should do up a big effort post of his stuff when I have time, if people would be interested in it. Some of his opinions fit right in here! Others don't. He's based in Edmonton, and Alberta is basically Texas North in a lot of ways; it's on the conservative side, but Canadian conservative. Edit: 
Prism fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 16:57
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Prism posted:I admit to not picking bad political cartoons so much as a random assortment. The can of worms one by Malcolm Mayes is the one in our local paper and the rest were online - one's from the Toronto Star, then the rest are just wherever. For context on that last image At the time those were the opposition leaders, Thomas Mulcair and (now PM) Justin Trudeau. They are celebrating the recession because that proved that Harper's record of economic goodtimes was BS.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:34
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bunnyofdoom posted:For context on that last image I thought it worked better without the context. The less Americans know about Canada, the better.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:37
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By the way, look who Trump's looking back to, the moment of the world recognizing his greatest ever accomplishment of his miserable life. It isn't Melania, he's looking at the real love of his life right behind her. We were all just so captivated by the disappearing smile we missed it for months.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:41
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