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Banana Man posted:Do you have more info on this? Sounds pretty interesting. This is a good overview from one of the leading researchers on subsea permafrost caps: http://envisionation.co.uk/index.php/nick-breeze/203-subsea-permafrost-on-east-siberian-arctic-shelf-now-in-accelerated-decline
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Oct 25, 2017 02:35
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GreyjoyBastard posted:So we were all loving dead anyway, that's reassuring. Albeit that's the difference between dying on the cusp of an intersolar civilization and actually maturing into one. So, while the Earth may have greenhoused either way, this doesn't excuse us for the crime of taking our species's chance at glory and setting it on fire in the name of iPhones and Hungry Boy TV Dinners. I will be preaching the immensity of this sin until the world burns me a grave.  Notorious R.I.M. posted:This is a good overview from one of the leading researchers on subsea permafrost caps: http://envisionation.co.uk/index.php/nick-breeze/203-subsea-permafrost-on-east-siberian-arctic-shelf-now-in-accelerated-decline Oh sick! I was looking for this earlier in the year and then forgot. quote:Dr. Semiletov added that the 5 billion tonnes of methane that is currently in the Earth’s atmosphere represents about one percent of the frozen methane hydrate store in the East Siberian Arctic Shelf. He finishes emphasising “…but we believe the hydrate pool is only a tiny fraction of the total.”  quote:The estimated amount of hydrates, 1500 billion tonnes, is actually only a tiny proportion of the actual pressurised methane stored beneath the gas hydrate stability zone.  Venus, here we come. Rime fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 02:37
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We just might have gotten another couple thousand years if we'd stuck to hitting each other with sharpened metal sticks.
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Rime posted:Albeit that's the difference between dying on the cusp of an intersolar civilization and actually maturing into one. So, while the Earth may have greenhoused either way, this doesn't excuse us for the crime of taking our species's chance at glory and setting it on fire in the name of iPhones and Hungry Boy TV Dinners. Interstellar my tuchus. What we've learned from our space programs over the last fifty or so years is that we haven't got the tech and may never have what it takes to get to another planet. One of the things might be will but I'm not buying that will alone would overcome the challenges of surviving that kind of trip. Maybe our last gasp will be some robot stuff but I'd guess the closer we got to the inevitable the less inclined we'd be to making expensive grandiose gestures to probably no one.
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Oct 25, 2017 02:45
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syscall girl posted:Interstellar my tuchus. What we've learned from our space programs over the last fifty or so years is that we haven't got the tech and may never have what it takes to get to another planet. One of the things might be will but I'm not buying that will alone would overcome the challenges of surviving that kind of trip. I said intersolar. There are zero barriers to exploiting our own solar system with currently available technology.
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Oct 25, 2017 02:50
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:This is a good overview from one of the leading researchers on subsea permafrost caps: http://envisionation.co.uk/index.php/nick-breeze/203-subsea-permafrost-on-east-siberian-arctic-shelf-now-in-accelerated-decline What would happen if we nuked it?
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Oct 25, 2017 02:55
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Rime posted:I said intersolar. There are zero barriers to exploiting our own solar system with currently available technology. Ooh, my bad. Sorry.
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Oct 25, 2017 02:59
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The Groper posted:What would happen if we nuked it? Very exciting things. The atmospheric methane source for this process is: gas bubbles seep up from the permafrost into the water column -> storms convect the methane into the air. So the nuke itself would probably launch a fair bit of methane into the atmosphere but it would also increase the leak rate into the water column. Future arctic cyclones would probably be smelly. The next exciting question is how the methane then gets removed from the atmosphere. Hope u got enough hydroxides.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:02
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Rime posted:Venus, here we come. I'm not sold on us being able to pull that off yet but I think it's definitely on the table. I keep research like this in the back of my mind every time some idiot says "Yeah well human life will always find a way"
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Oct 25, 2017 03:08
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Humans simply turned it from a millennial feedback to a decadal feedback. It's important to fail fast. Xeom posted:If the research ends up showing we have already passed or are very near a point of no return in terms of methane leaks did we even ever stand a chance? Seriously I've been wondering the same thing, at what point could we realistically have prevented >2C temperature rise ignoring the possibility of huge positive feedback effects? Given political realities in capitalist societies I think it was the 1970s and would have required the west to go all in on nuclear in response to the energy crisis. This would significantly reduce cumulative US emissions to date but would also have developed the necessary industrial capacity to allow China + India to minimize fossil fuel usage while industrializing. Once China and the rest of the developing world began building coal plants en masse >2C warming was probably inevitable. Don't worry I have a plan: Nature posted:... we introduce an integrated photonic solar reflector and thermal emitter consisting of seven layers of HfO2 and SiO2 that reflects 97 per cent of incident sunlight while emitting strongly and selectively in the atmospheric transparency window. When exposed to direct sunlight exceeding 850 watts per square metre on a rooftop, the photonic radiative cooler cools to 4.9 degrees Celsius below ambient air temperature, and has a cooling power of 40.1 watts per square metre at ambient air temperature The cosmic microwave background is sitting right there at a chilly 3K, an endless dump for all this excess heat we're accumulating down here. Cover the interior US with reflectors + thermal emitters in the 8-13um range and couple it into the interstellar void. Just don't point them at any clouds.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:09
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Conspiratiorist posted:
This is sad on such an existential level that I don't really know how to process it. Age of poisoned thought indeed.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:34
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yall got any information on the less-blue skies thing? that's interesting/sad vv 
snoo fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 03:44
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Was curious about the health effects of CO2 concentration. http://www.iisc.ernet.in/currsci/jun252006/1607.pdf quote:The most often quoted desirable/attainable stable concentration is 750 ppm. This concentration level is not related in any way to health considerations and is above the estimated dangerous level of 426 ppm. The value is also above the 600 ppm level, which results in the ‘stuffy room’ conditions described above. At the very least, 600 ppm of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will be unpleasant and there will be no readily available means of reversing the changes giving rise to the above symptoms. Got to 409ppm this may at Mauna Loa, lol: https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/weekly.html Bonus lol that the paper cites the current CO2 levels as 373ppm. When was this ancient poo poo written? Oh... 2006.
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Oct 25, 2017 03:49
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That's actually great, if CO2 levels become physically uncomfortable to the ruling class we will see swift action. The oil barons have a lot of sway but they are a small minority of people with power.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:01
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Yeah CO2 is nice in that it seems to make you uncomfortable quite a bit before it makes you brain-damaged. Good warning window.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:12
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Hmm trying to weigh out being smothered by nature’s pillow or eaten by cannibals
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Oct 25, 2017 04:39
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Anyone here have kids?
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Oct 25, 2017 04:40
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if co2 toxicity becomes an issue before the heat death of humanity and/or trump ends the world, the rich will live in greenhouses with enclosed vegetation to provide a constant supply of fresh oxygenBanana Man posted:Anyone here have kids?
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Oct 25, 2017 05:29
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Nothing to see here, move along ...
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Oct 25, 2017 06:29
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Banana Man posted:Anyone here have kids? I have a baby girl and you can be sure she'll be spoiled rotten in my attempts to make up for bringing her into the end of the world.
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Oct 25, 2017 06:58
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VideoGameVet posted:Nothing to see here, move along ... Tag yourself I'm the 7 degree record delta
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Oct 25, 2017 07:04
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Is there some study or simulation that would assume all humans and human activity just vanish overnight and then looks at how things would evolve from there as far as this climate shenanigans is concerned? Or ones that assume the more and more devastating natural disasters kill of humans by the millions on a regular basis? Basically, how things would go if the root problem gets brasted so much so that it's greatly diminished or gone entirely. Also assuming that the permafrost stuff wouldn't happen. I mean, I don't think any populations can handle 10 hurricanes in a row etc. and that'll probably what'll happen at some point.
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Oct 25, 2017 07:45
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Arglebargle III posted:That's actually great, if CO2 levels become physically uncomfortable to the ruling class we will see swift action. The oil barons have a lot of sway but they are a small minority of people with power. yes, we will swiftly see the oil barons' penthouse apartments having strictly controlled lower levels of CO2 and they will no longer leave them. takeout food will be delivered, everyone else will be kept away by armed militia.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:43
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Gortarius posted:Is there some study or simulation that would assume all humans and human activity just vanish overnight and then looks at how things would evolve from there as far as this climate shenanigans is concerned? Earth warms quickly due to lack of industrial aerosols
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Oct 25, 2017 13:50
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Chadzok posted:yes, we will swiftly see the oil barons' penthouse apartments having strictly controlled lower levels of CO2 and they will no longer leave them. takeout food will be delivered, everyone else will be kept away by armed militia. That and designer oxygen masks/tanks. Most of the remaining middle class will be spending their residual paychecks to make sure they and their children can consistently breathe outside, those who can't afford it will see greatly reduced life spans. Also, co2 poisoning makes it difficult to function/work, so if you "slip up" and run out of credit to a buy a new tank...well it is a long slide. (That is my scifi short-story version of the future). Ardennes fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 14:05
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Ardennes posted:That and designer oxygen masks/tanks. Most of the remaining middle class will be spending their residual paychecks to make sure they and their children can consistently breathe outside, those who can't afford it will see greatly reduced life spans. Also, co2 poisoning makes it difficult to function/work, so if you "slip up" and run out of credit to a buy a new tank...well it is a long slide. This pretty much entirely describes the setting of The Sheep Look Up, except it’s just general air pollution instead of CO2.
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Oct 25, 2017 14:14
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Ardennes posted:That and designer oxygen masks/tanks. Most of the remaining middle class will be spending their residual paychecks to make sure they and their children can consistently breathe outside, those who can't afford it will see greatly reduced life spans. Also, co2 poisoning makes it difficult to function/work, so if you "slip up" and run out of credit to a buy a new tank...well it is a long slide. That's pretty dystopian. I mean, gently caress, that's a bad future for humanity. Upside is a lot more people will be motivated to get off planet, because the one thing we can't deal with is literally poisoning our air so much we all get retarded. But hey, along those dystopian lines, that might be great for the ultra-wealthy/future dictator class to have a docile retarded population to control as opposed to an intelligent one.
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Oct 25, 2017 14:16
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nah. domed cities on earth are much easier to manufacture than domed cities on mars.
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Oct 25, 2017 14:36
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Nice piece of fish posted:That's pretty dystopian. I mean, gently caress, that's a bad future for humanity. Upside is a lot more people will be motivated to get off planet, because the one thing we can't deal with is literally poisoning our air so much we all get retarded. I assume "get off planet" is some oblique reference to suicide because we'd have figured out how to tune our climate to our whims well before self-sufficient colonies that can support a suitably large population are feasible.
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Oct 25, 2017 14:40
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Nocturtle posted:I assume "get off planet" is some oblique reference to suicide because we'd have figured out how to tune our climate to our whims well before self-sufficient colonies that can support a suitably large population are feasible. I was more thinking along the lines of O'Neill cylinders or something, once you're out of the gravity well it doesn't make a lot of sense going back down one unless you have a very good reason. Kind of like The Expanse, minus Mars (because why the gently caress go to Mars). Remember, rich folks have a lot of money to waste and they loving own you and everyone you know. Why wouldn't they attempt this next when the New Zealand luxury refuge plan doesn't pan out?
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Oct 25, 2017 14:44
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Nice piece of fish posted:Remember, rich folks have a lot of money to waste and they loving own you and everyone you know. Why wouldn't they attempt this next when the New Zealand luxury refuge plan doesn't pan out?
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Oct 25, 2017 15:39
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Banana Man posted:Anyone here have kids? Yup. Honestly, to the extent I think about this stuff at all in that context, it's "live in a place that's not a dense population zone as a hedge against massive civil unrest", and "own enough sedatives and bullets to humanely take out self, family and pets". And, frankly, living away from dense population zones is much more a quality-of-life issue than a disaster preparedness one. Likewise, having some amount of hardcore drugs and weaponry on hand in carefully controlled and locked containers just seems like common sense to me. Saving as much money as possible for long term uncertainty made as much sense in 1910 as it does now. Yeah, maybe we're all hosed, but if we are may as well enjoy the time we've got, if not then it'd end up feeling pretty foolish to have spent a life making decisions around an endgame that never came. I heartily endorse the book The Death of Grass by John Christopher as good bedtime reading, too. I picked it up thinking it was going to be a YA thing similar to his other books I'd read as a child. Woo woo was I wrong on that, glad I read it myself before handing it to my kid when they're 9. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 17:02
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Nice piece of fish posted:I was more thinking along the lines of O'Neill cylinders or something, once you're out of the gravity well it doesn't make a lot of sense going back down one unless you have a very good reason. There's a very good reason, which is that building and maintaining an habitat with premium creature comforts is infinitely easier to do on Earth than in orbit. The planet could become a literal irradiated hellscape with a completely collapsed ecosystem, and it'd still be more hospitable to human life than anything out there.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:57
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China doing, not just talking. Moving on up the value chain, letting India be the world's next dirty factory. http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/10/23/559009961/china-shuts-down-tens-of-thousands-of-factories-in-unprecedented-pollution-crack quote:In the gritty industrial town of Yiwu, workers prepare jeans to be dyed in a vivid range of colors. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/business/china-pollution-economy.html quote:BEIJING — Through the last four decades, China has achieved breathtaking economic growth at the cost of smoggy skies, fetid streams and lakes of dying fish. Meanwhile in America, Scott Pruitt worries about assassins and eavesdroppers as he guts environmental regulations. Can you imagine Trump making a statement like that one about clean waters being more valuable than gold?
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Oct 25, 2017 19:59
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The only solution to turning our lush planet slightly less hospitable is to permanently settle in a 2.7 Kelvin void.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:04
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dex_sda posted:The only solution to turning our lush planet slightly less hospitable is to permanently settle in a 2.7 Kelvin void. Not to mention the cosmic rays giving one the equivalent of a chest X-Ray every month.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:17
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dex_sda posted:The only solution to turning our lush planet slightly less hospitable is to permanently settle in a 2.7 Kelvin void. It's probably going to a lot less hospitable for the poor's but yep I think your right, it's going to take a biblical scale disaster for the rich to notice.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:29
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treerat posted:China doing, not just talking. Moving on up the value chain, letting India be the world's next dirty factory.valuable than gold? I, too, believe vague reports from government officials in an autocratic state. Especially in the midst of a PR campaign being run by the guy who just declared himself dictator for life. Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 20:29
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Fojar38 posted:I, too, believe vague reports from government officials in an autocratic state. What, if anything, could China realistically do to persuade you that they're serious about environmental cleanup?
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Oct 25, 2017 20:31
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Hello Sailor posted:What, if anything, could China realistically do to persuade you that they're serious about environmental cleanup? Allow growth to tank to the degree that would actually be required to make a dent in industrial pollution instead of trying to sell the fantasy of both 6.8% growth and massive drops in pollution. Of course, even at that point, lol at the idea of taking the word of an autocratic regime at face value. If that's too hard, stop farting giant particulate clouds out over NE Asia. Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 20:34
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It will be interesting to see if growth does slow and if the government allows it to be known.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:43
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