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System Metternich posted:Yeah, PSA for thread newbies (if there is such a thing): if the Christianity thread develops suspiciously many posts overnight, it's almost never a good sign
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Oct 25, 2017 14:24
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I honestly think John-Baptist is the best saint name for a guy. I'm leaning away from John because of how popular of a name it is. Someone up in the thread made the same point, so I know it's not just my parish.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:06
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Tias posted:Humans are the dawn of what I would call a less perfect spirituality. Animals, plants and rocks aren't good or bad, they just are, which, left to their own devices, is usually a good thing.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:09
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Slimy Hog posted:I'm leaning away from John because of how popular of a name it is. Someone up in the thread made the same point, so I know it's not just my parish. I like Constantine for Orthodox boys, or Philippos.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:10
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The Phlegmatist posted:the "banker agenda"
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Oct 25, 2017 16:12
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HEY GAIL posted:I went to a college called St. John's. Half of the boys were named John. Don't do this. oh right i forgot you were a johnnie
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Oct 25, 2017 16:15
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Senju Kannon posted:oh right i forgot you were a johnnie and guess how gay THAT was
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Oct 25, 2017 16:16
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Want to chime in here that it is possible to have different beliefs than other posters in this thread, so long as you're not a dick about it.Slimy Hog posted:I'm leaning away from John because of how popular of a name it is. Someone up in the thread made the same point, so I know it's not just my parish. More St. Johns in the Martyrology than any other saint. Try Zozimus or Xantippa.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:24
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For what it's worth, today's the feast of various saints named Martyrius: Martyrius the recluse of the Kiev Caves, Martyrius the Deacon, and Martyrius the, uh, Martyr (and Notary).
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Oct 25, 2017 16:31
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HEY GAIL posted:the Alaskan saints are as American as it gets, what about Peter? St. Peter's martyrdom is pretty intense; not a story I want to tell my son at bedtime.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:37
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I still remember the time our bishop made one of his rare visits, and we had the kids go up to read the biographies of their patron saints. I think there were maybe two that didn't die horrifically as martyrs.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:50
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I'm gonna name my kids after my grandparents who are already named with good, saintly names.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:08
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HEY GAIL posted:you don't know if any of it is a good idea until they get old You don't know old ideas except through the lens of modernity anyway. Also, speaking from a purely political position "ahahahaha" at the idea that any ancient or early modern system is less unremitting poo poo than current ones. I mean they might not be worse, but I don't think Theocratic God-Kings is a good way of doing business.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:18
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holy wow this was a lot of posts, but nobody came to my office hours so i had time to catch up. HEY GAL this is a throwback but you linked to boswell's book, have you read alan bray's The Friend? it's really loving good and a much more nuanced discussion than boswell of the ways in which medieval and early modern friendship was wildly different from what we know today, was intimately linked to liturgy and the sacraments, and also didn't exclude a sexual dimension. amazon link here
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Oct 25, 2017 19:55
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Bel_Canto posted:holy wow this was a lot of posts, but nobody came to my office hours so i had time to catch up. i just automatically twitch when i hear that word because my ex introduced me to people as "his friend" when we were dating. he did this for eight years. Never fall in love with someone who doesn't love you back, friends. edit: that's early modern england, every culture was different. For instance the Florentines were gay as hell, while the Venetians would put you in the stocks for it because they were convinced that sodomy would make God's punishment fall upon the galley fleet.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:11
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Slimy Hog posted:I'm leaning away from John because of how popular of a name it is. Someone up in the thread made the same point, so I know it's not just my parish. See, if it were me, I would not let people call me John, as that is not my name my name is John-Baptist and that's not common in the English speaking world.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:29
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For the two or three people itt who don't follow liz bruenig on Twitter yet for some reason: https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/923232369187917826 Apparently he also insisted on his wife Käthe calling him “Dr professor“, lol
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Oct 25, 2017 21:27
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System Metternich posted:Apparently he also insisted on his wife Käthe calling him “Dr professor“, lol see to an american this just looks like normal german title weirdness
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Oct 25, 2017 21:28
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Bel_Canto posted:see to an american this just looks like normal german title weirdness Every German knows it's “Professor Dr“ instead, making it the other way round just goes on to show that Luther was some kinky-rear end dude
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Oct 25, 2017 21:46
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does a professor's wife get called professorin? because 17th century officers' wives were addressed by the female version of their husband's titles (oberstin, leutnantin, etc)
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Oct 25, 2017 21:53
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Screencapped because she deletes her tweets:
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Oct 25, 2017 21:56
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HEY GAIL posted:There's a spiritual answer to this--are you familiar with Stoicism? Specifically, Marcus Aurelius? I read some of the meditations a long time ago, can you explain it to me?
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Oct 25, 2017 22:24
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Tias posted:I read some of the meditations a long time ago, can you explain it to me? Don't get sad, all emotions are silly, the emenations of the divine make up the world, don't get cross at injustice because it is just the lot that is given to you. Its a philosophy for people who are wealthy and piously denying themselves things, not for the poor who don't have it and want to ask why.
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Oct 25, 2017 22:32
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Josef bugman posted:Don't get sad, all emotions are silly, the emenations of the divine make up the world, don't get cross at injustice because it is just the lot that is given to you. anyway, Tias, the idea is that all beings live "according to nature" except people, but you can make yourself live according to nature if you control your passions and live a virtuous life, which according to them was our original "natural" purpose anyway. I said you should check it out because what you said sounds EXACTLY like the first half of the way Stoics talk about human morality.
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Oct 25, 2017 22:38
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Worthleast posted:Xantippa.
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Oct 25, 2017 22:43
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HEY GAIL posted:lmao no, the guy who invented half of it was a slave and they consciously made the things they said as accessible to ordinary people as possible Oh no I am not saying that they are "inaccesible" I am simply saying that, if you take the view that people should want to improve their material position in the world it is, at best, a call to lie down think about things. The reason I describe it as a philosophy for the wealthy is that it essentially makes a virtue out of saying "well we can't change much, do nice things". The fact is that it isn't the worst philosophy, but it is one that takes the world as it is instead of asking why it is the way it is and trying to change it. From what I have seen "acceptance" is pretty major, I know my translation is bad (it uses ye a lot) but saying things like "Willingly give yourself up to the fates" kind of implies a level of fatalistim I, personally, find galling. Also, both "nature" and "virtuous life" are constructs, neither are originals and both change meanings dependent upon place and time. I am sorry if this is an inapprorpiate place to discuss this, but although I found some bits of the meditations interesting, I don't think it is as relevant as all that. Same thing I thought when I was reading the Dao "strengthening the peoples backs and weakening their minds" should not be put into any book. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 23:37
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Worthleast posted:Want to chime in here that it is possible to have different beliefs than other posters in this thread, so long as you're not a dick about it. yeah like if u see a post u dont like just ignore it and move on if you want to get man just go back and find the thread where jastiger posted and read that
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Oct 26, 2017 01:34
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Worthleast posted:Want to chime in here that it is possible to have different beliefs than other posters in this thread, so long as you're not a dick about it. While there are probably more reasons why there are fewer people who support the received traditions of the Church on some of these theological issues, and specifically on issues pertaining to life/sexuality, don't post here, I can say in my case I had to stop because this thread became quite a bit less about traditional liturgy and quite a bit more about analysing the current events/news from LGTBQ perspectives. This thread has a fairly obvious groupthink in terms of these issues and generally speaking "don't be a jerk" has been applied in a sense of "keep quiet if you disagree, or you will be shouted down or called a jerk." I get enough passive aggressive feedback from clergy and laity and I don't need to sift through passive-aggressive poo poo-posting (which is what I dealt with the last time I was active I think two threads ago). Really it's not surprising: I've been to more public church meetings over the past two years dealing with same-sex marriage than I care to think about where from those who favour it, any opposition to it is viewed as hateful, regardless of your theological reasons or any expressions of love and support. It's an all or nothing proposition, it seems, and that seems to have, to some degree, filtered into the mindset of this thread. Doesn't make for an interesting thread compared to actual liturgical discussions where you can really get into the nitty-gritty of it and escape from the more politicized (and indeed secularly influenced) debates of the Church today. The best discussions on liturgy are those where nothing but liturgical/sacramental theology even comes into it and you spend two days trying to find rubrical authority for genuflection on the left knee. Maybe I shouldn't bother to post that but I decided to check in as it's been over a year since I last posted, I think, and I figured it might be helpful to toss my perspective in.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:34
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PantlessBadger posted:
I just wanted to say thanks for dropping by and to supplement with my own thoughts. Chernobyl brought up a decent point, though the bickering that ensued sort of drowned it out. Being a Catholic involves in some sense assenting to the Cathechism, even though all of us probably mumble our way through some significant parts of it. Trying to figure out a way to justify the contradictions between our other loyalties and that to the church is complicated business, and I'd imagine that the few who claim that there are no contradictions between Church teaching and their personal beliefs are greater hypocrites than those who, however awkwardly, admit the contradiction and try to work through it. This is actually an interesting and important issue, and it's tended more and more to get drowned out as the thread has gotten older. People get accused of being insufficiently leftist (whatever the hell that means on any given day) as a way to avoid talking about or thinking through theological issues that are real and quite pressing. And all of that is probably true, although not quite in the same form, for those in non-Catholic less centralized churches. Pretending that theology is always-already in agreement with our politics does a disservice to that theology. It would make for a more interesting thread, I think, if we had room for those of a more conservative bent; using the language of the church to make the same-old political statements is boring, even when we stand by those statements.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:55
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Even decades removed from the place and people I grew up around, I still have this thing where when I first hear 'conservative', I don't always think of (what I consider to be) unpleasant political beliefs, I think of plain dress and horses and buggies. The Mennonites I grew up with and around were not of that particular bent, though I think my grandparents grew up that way. But I was familiar enough with it. Of course from much of this thread's perspective, we Anabaptists aren't conservative at all; we're the ones who thought Martin Luther didn't go far enough! I'm not sure there are any uniquely Mennonite teachings about either dead folk or about demons, except I'm pretty sure if one turned up they'd be put to work straight away, since that barn ain't gonna build itself.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:26
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Numerical Anxiety posted:It would make for a more interesting thread, I think, if we had room for those of a more conservative bent; using the language of the church to make the same-old political statements is boring, even when we stand by those statements. IMO conservatives are happily welcome. Any poster is happily welcome! As long as they recognize that this isn't a space for personal and denominational validation. Posters in the this thread come from extremely diverse backgrounds and that's cool and good. You might learn something! Your personal faith grows far more from listening to opposing viewpoints than hearing validation of your own beliefs. I want this thread to be a friendly space for both serious and poo poo-posting related to Christianity, which it's been in the past quite successfully. Yes, a large proportion of regular posters are LGBTQ+ and you just have to deal with that. Do you disagree wrt sexuality? That's cool, just don't be a dick about it. I'm a gay Lutheran. If I was really mad I could emulate the big Marty L. and post scatological invectives against Catholics but personally I really don't care. It's far more interesting to hear from all of your perspectives than try to assert mine. I guess I would say, this isn't a thread for apologetics. You're not likely to convince or convert us. Yes, this thread has a strong LGBTQ+ presence, deal with it. Turn the other cheek. Listen before you post. This thread has been one of the better places for progressive Christianity on the internet. We've had regular posters that are pagan and agnostic, their voices have kept this a lively and interesting space. Please remember the thread rules: 1) Don't be a dick. Most of the thread disagrees with you but is interested in your opinion. Feel free and post whatever but antagonizing other posters only shits up the thread. You disagree? Ok cool, move on. 2) No abortion chat.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:32
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Went to my cousin's wedding this weekend at a parish that offers Latin Mass, and had this thought: "Wow! Four nails! They really go all out!"
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Oct 26, 2017 02:41
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Took me a second to notice the Apostles' icons near the bottom, so at first I thought the names in the background were for the seraphim. Would have been a rather... interesting take on sainthood.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:44
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PantlessBadger posted:I figured it might be helpful to toss my perspective in. I agree, thanks
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Oct 26, 2017 02:45
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fwiw i think much of the bias comes from the fact that over half of the people who post most frequently are some kind of LGBT, and everyone tends to talk about things that most interest them. topics shift frequently though, and the thread tends to leap onto the next interesting topic like a magpie in a jewelry shop. please post. the distaste for, e.g., quoting the catechism on gay sex comes from the fact that we know what it says and have, out of necessity, studied the question a great deal, and for many of us it’s still a source of great spiritual difficulty. but that difficulty is not going to be helped along by something awful dot com: in my case, i’ve got a spiritual director and it’s very much on the table always. point is, we’ve probably heard it before, and from people far more central and to our lives. i’m okay if you don’t think i’m doing it right, but i promise i know that already. i’d much rather hear your take on, for example, the recent decision to let local bishops translate the liturgy, so let’s talk about that instead. please post
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Oct 26, 2017 02:54
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HEY GAIL posted:does a professor's wife get called professorin? because 17th century officers' wives were addressed by the female version of their husband's titles (oberstin, leutnantin, etc) No longer, but I'd say until like the 50s or 60s it was the norm. I've even seen letters from imperial Germany that were addressed at “Frau [academic title of husband] [first name of husband] [family name]“ which i thought to be somewhat hosed up
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Oct 26, 2017 05:51
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Hoover Dam posted:Went to my cousin's wedding this weekend at a parish that offers Latin Mass, and had this thought: Those saints definitely look like eldritch horrors
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Oct 26, 2017 06:06
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System Metternich posted:No longer, but I'd say until like the 50s or 60s it was the norm. I've even seen letters from imperial Germany that were addressed at “Frau [academic title of husband] [first name of husband] [family name]“ which i thought to be somewhat hosed up
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Oct 26, 2017 07:32
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Bel_Canto posted:the distaste for, e.g., quoting the catechism on gay sex comes from the fact that we know what it says and have, out of necessity, studied the question a great deal,... Numerical Anxiety posted:People get accused of being insufficiently leftist (whatever the hell that means on any given day) as a way to avoid talking about or thinking through theological issues that are real and quite pressing.
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Oct 26, 2017 07:37
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Caufman posted:Those saints definitely look like eldritch horrors Unless I misread you, you tentacly thingies are seraphim, the saints and their quite normal stylings can be seen below.
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Oct 26, 2017 08:07
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