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idonotlikepeas posted:Yeah! Those stupid things aren't good for anything! Your seven years on the forums have all been building up to this moment.
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Oct 25, 2017 19:02
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Does this game require full points to completion? Unless I'm missing something, everything you've done has just been for the sake of progression. 
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Oct 26, 2017 08:24
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It does not 'require' full points but there are very few to spare. I tended to skip doing the peas and therefore bagging the cat.
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Oct 26, 2017 10:51
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Snorb posted:From what I've seen online, nobody at Sierra liked that puzzle; Roberta Williams left Sierra without telling anybody what she had intended for that sequence, and that was the first puzzle the team could come up with. Jane Jensen designed the Gabriel Knight series, not Roberta Williams, and she had a completely different puzzle in mind for getting the motorcycle. The cat hair puzzle got created and substituted in by the producer Steven Hill because the original puzzle was too expensive/difficult to implement or something. MR. J posted:Does this game require full points to completion? Unless I'm missing something, everything you've done has just been for the sake of progression. Anything relating to dealing with the blue monster/cat is optional because you can randomly make it upstairs without encountering them (though as pointed out you have to get captured once).
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Oct 26, 2017 17:16
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whitehelm posted:Jane Jensen designed the Gabriel Knight series, not Roberta Williams, and she had a completely different puzzle in mind for getting the motorcycle. The cat hair puzzle got created and substituted in by the producer Steven Hill because the original puzzle was too expensive/difficult to implement or something. Apparently according to Jensen, the original puzzle involved a water hose and a bird's nest, but they couldn't get the water to look right. The cat hair puzzle is infuriating because it's such a departure from Gabriel Knight's more grounded puzzles, I don't think it'd get as much furor if it was in Monkey Island or King's Quest.
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Oct 26, 2017 18:24
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Robindaybird posted:Apparently according to Jensen, the original puzzle involved a water hose and a bird's nest, but they couldn't get the water to look right. Well, yes and no. The problem with cartoon logic puzzles is that once you introduce them, the player will start trying to solve everything in cartoon logic terms... and in those terms there's an infinite number of potential actions and solutions. Since no game could possibly allow for them all, you end up having to guess which cartoon logic the authors meant, which is basically just frustrating and throws actual puzzle solving out the window.
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Oct 26, 2017 18:52
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DoubleNegative posted:
I read this in the voice of the Badger of the Guard from King's Quest 7... Does that make me a King's Quest nerd?  DoubleNegative posted:If you're standing in plain view when Mordack teleports in, I seem to remember him killing you for it. So here I was trying to show off this death I vaguely remembered, but it didn't quite work out. I guess he was tired as hell. It's not just you. I too remember this happening. On a side note, Manannan and his family really like their naps. whitehelm posted:Jane Jensen designed the Gabriel Knight series, not Roberta Williams, and she had a completely different puzzle in mind for getting the motorcycle. The cat hair puzzle got created and substituted in by the producer Steven Hill because the original puzzle was too expensive/difficult to implement or something. Regarding Jane Jensen, I think that the "famous" article on why adventure games kicked the bucket is far too cruel to her. King's Quest VI was the best game in the whole series. Not only that, it has a claim on being the best adventure game ever made by Sierra or LucasArts. Why is it good? Because it was a collaboration between Jane Jensen and Roberta Williams. Matter of fact, I think Jane Jensen did most of the puzzle design. King's Quest VII was not so fortunate. (@%#%$^%$ shepherd's crook...)
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Oct 27, 2017 00:30
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: Let me out! Mordack will hear of this!
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I guess the cat's having a nap too. This seems like an able time to yowl loud enough to wake the dead.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:33
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Bloops Crusts posted:On a side note, Manannan and his family really like their naps. They also like to teleport around their homes, catching you unaware. It's funny how much older Mannanan seems than Mordack. Mannanan is clearly getting on in years as opposed to Mordack who seems fit as a fiddle.
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Oct 27, 2017 09:53
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Who's to say Mordack didn't make a trip to get one of those magical essence of gym fruits like Graham was given, or he could just be stealing youth from random captives like a proper evil wizard.
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Oct 27, 2017 11:32
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They're wizards. Maybe Mannanan used magic to make himself appear older to be more intimidating? He seems really spry for a cat if he were as old as he appeared.
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Oct 27, 2017 12:42
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 King's Quest V - Mordack's Laboratory This whole update is available in video form. Click here to watch it if you like. Hello everyone and welcome back to King's Quest V. The final update is upon us. God it feels so good to be able to type that sentence. Several updates ago I had some words to say about how in a game full of bad puzzles, two stood shoulder to shoulder as joint title holders of "worst in the game." The first was the yeti puzzle. We've had yet to see the second one, but that changes today.  forge : Hot coals burn in an open-pit fireplace built against a side wall.I'm not crazy, right? That's a forge, right? There's even metalworking tools on the wall. room: Graham has found himself in a large room filled with many unusual contraptions and magical implements. His heart feels like bursting when he notices his family imprisoned within a large glass bottle sitting upon a corner table. bottle: Looking at his frantically waving family inside their glass prison makes Graham's heart break as he realizes his inability to save them from their terrible predicament.We can't do anything down here, but there looks to be some stuff upstairs. So let's take a gander...  stairs By "some stuff" I mean the contraption at the far end of the upstairs balcony.  Several people got mad when they saw this screenshot. machine: Graham has no idea what Mordack does with this strange contraption, but it couldn't be good! Inside the lower portion a foul-smelling liquid bubbles while two dangling spiked gizmos hang on a massive yoke above a couple of flat iron platters. machine: The bizarre machine looks very intimidating and confusing which makes Graham reluctant to touch it; conversely, it also intrigues him.There's absolutely no indication what this machine does, or what you should even do with it. Easy money says you should put one item on each platter, but what items?  So for the last time in the LP, here's our inventory. There's only two similar items in our inventory, the wands, so they're probably meant to go on the two platters.  left platter right platter So that's all well and good, but now what? There's no indication in the game of what to do next. I know more than one person reading this is going to defend the puzzle by saying "but you can just brute force the solution" but that's bullshit. Puzzles like this, or the yeti, or the witch and the bottle, or even the bridle on a snake are bad because there is no internal logic to them. For other puzzles in the game you can kind of see what demented logic the writers were using. There's a thread of consistency with the rules in the game as we understand them, and how the puzzles work. A solution may not be immediately intuitive, but when you get the answer you can see what the writers were thinking to a degree. Puzzles like this violate that relationship because at that point all consistency is gone for the sake of selling 5 minutes of time on Sierra's 1-900 hint line. I hated the game so much, but the Witness was the only "adventure" game that punished brute forcing puzzles. Each set of puzzles introduced a concept, and expanded on that concept as you progressed. It was fully possible to brute force solutions, but then you'd get stuck six down the line when it came time for the final exam. Brute forcing a puzzle is never a solution. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. When the intended solution, however, is just to brute force the answer, then we've got a major problem on our hands. We're in such a state here. I've looked at the puzzle and thought about it, trying to work out just what Roberta Williams was thinking. If I'm as generous as possible with the term, then the only "hint" that I can come up with was posted above when we looked at the machine. Here's the relevant bit of information, with the "hint" bolded. : Graham has no idea what Mordack does with this strange contraption, but it couldn't be good! Inside the lower portion a foul-smelling liquid bubbles while two dangling spiked gizmos hang on a massive yoke above a couple of flat iron platters.With "foul-smelling" being the operative phrase for the "hint", we can narrow down our options to a single one.  machineHow you're supposed to guess that particular phrase is the hint, I'll never loving know. Furthermore, I don't know why cheese powers the machine. Nothing about this makes sense. You know what? I'm just tired of this game. I'm tired of trying to dissect the logic involved. Let's move on. The end is right around the corner.  Here we can see the machine activating its blinkenlights features.   Well, Crispin's wand looks livelier now. crispin's wand : Crispin's wand glows brightly with renewed power.King's Quest V - Battle with Mordack   : What's going on here? : I'll take care of you... you SWINE! This is the termination point for all remaining DMWs. If you forgot anything then this is where you die.  : Graham... I've heard from Crispin!  Let's see that again. I could watch that all day and never get tired of it. : What the...? What have you done to my wand?! You think you can outwit me, little man?! Hah! Let me show YOU a thing or two! What the hell is that?  All deaths from here on are identical.  : That wasn't a very smart move, Graham.   It's those four drawings we saw earlier, though in a different order. Out of everything we can turn into, the tiger looks the most useful here. A rabbit is too small to get away from this thing, and the two abstract drawings don't make any sense. So... tiger animorph : Why you little...: What's the matter, afraid to face me? It was here that I lost my patience for showing the various permutations of how Mordack can kill you. So that's the last death for the run.  rabbit animorph: You think you're so smart, don't you? Well, I've got you now!: I can do this all day long. : Sssssssssssay good-bye, sssssssssswine!: Oh puh-lease. Is swine the only insult you know? I've met wandering enchanters more threatening than you are.: I'll get you for that! abstract animorph in the upper left corner Apparently that undefinable blob is supposed to be a mongoose. Good to know.  : Ssssssssso! If thisssss issssss the way you want to play... the bottom left icon   This is the ending. Why they let you skip the ending, I'll never know.  : NOW why won't you work?! : Oh... Princess Cassima! Well, I did it. Mordack is dead. : Dead? Are you sure? Maybe he's only trying to trick you!: He's dead, all right. He turned himself into a fire and I put him out with rainwater. He'll never bother anyone else EVER again! But now I have a bigger problem; I don't know what to do about my family or my castle. I don't know how to turn them back to normal!: After all you've been through, there MUST be a way! : Crispin! : I have the solution to ALL your problems, Graham! : While you and Cedric were gone, I did some asking around, and found out that YOUR son, Alexander, had the dubious distinction, if you may, of turning Mordack's brother, Mannanan, into a cat some time back.: Graham nods.: Right. Oh, that reminds me. Princess Cassima, would you do me a favor and get that sack of peas just down the stairs?: The bag of peas? Sure, but why?: It has Manannan inside. Be careful he doesn't claw you.: Cassima runs off and returns a moment later with the sack of peas. She carefully hands it to Graham.: Obviously, this deed angered Mordack who could do nothing about it since this particular spell could only be undone by the actual perpetrator... your son.: It doesn't take a great genius to figure out that Mordack took your family and castle in revenge and to try to `persuade' Alexander to restore Mannanan back to his old self.: I DID discover, as now I see, that your castle and family were miniaturized and imprisoned inside a glass bottle. I did some research and found the spell for turning everything back to normal. Now watch! : Hocus, pocus, ALIOCUS! : Valanice! My children! My joy knows no limits! : Oh, Father! I'm so glad you're here!  : Oh... Princess Cassima! How could I forget you! Come over here. : Let me introduce you to my family. This is my wife, Queen Valanice. : Hello.: My daughter, Princess Rosella.: Hi.: And my son, Prince Alexander... who started this whole mess! All of you, this is Princess Cassima from the Land of the Green Isles. Without her, none of us would be standing here now. She bravely saved my life! : My Lady. I am deeply in your debt and I will make it up to you. With your permission, I'd like to travel to the Land of the Green Isles to see you.Keep it in your pants, Alex.  : All right! Now that we're done with the formalities, let's get on with business, shall we? : Higgledy, piggledly, POOH!Crispin just saying magic sounding words to fix all the problems is bothering me. This game has graduated from bad puzzles to simply lazy storytelling. The entire ending is literally "a wizard did it" style deus ex machina. Also incantations don't work like that in the King's Quest world. After this game they will go back to the old "rhyming quatrain" style. So I don't know why King's Quest V is the odd one out. Anyway, let's get back to the ending in progress. : Be assured that your castle is right back where it belongs... and the right size too! But NOW, it's time that everyone return to their homes... with MY help, of course. Alakazam, alakazoo...: Graham eyes the crumpled form of Cedric and sighs.: Wait... wait. What about Cedric?: Where IS Cedric?: Over there! Mordack may have killed him! Is there ANYTHING you can do about it?: Hmmmmm, let me think. Ah, yes! I think I know.: Abra... abracarbara... no. Uh, abra... codora... hmmmmm. Now, what IS that confounded word? Oh, yes! Abra... cadabra!: Alexander frowns at the sounds Crispin is making, but doesn't say anything. : Ooooh, Crispin!: Cedric, it sure is good to see YOU again!: Ooooh, Likewise, I'm sure.: All right. Enough is enough. Let's get on with it. Okay, Cassima. Let's send you home first. Wasn't that the Land of the Green Isles?: Yes, that's right! I can't wait to see my parents again! Good-bye, Alexander. Perhaps we'll meet again.: You can be sure of that, m'lady. : Before you send us all home, Crispin, I just want to thank you for all your help. And, you too, Cedric. I wouldn't be standing here with my family without you two. I'm deeply, deeply grateful.: All in a day's work, my boy. All in a day's work. Right, Cedric?: Right, Crispin!: Okay, back home you go! Alakazam, alakazoo, ALAKAZEE!   King's Quest V - Ending Titles : Well, there she is...our happy home. And we're all safe and sound once more. Let's go home, shall we?: Yes, let's. : Have I got a long story to tell you all about my journey. Do yourselves a favor and never take on a small animal for a sidekick...  The credits for this game are a little long for a gif, so I'm not going to show them off. If you're curious, you can watch the video I linked at the start of the update. Anyway, that's King's Quest V. I'm glad to be done with this game. But our long, national nightmare is finally over. NEXT TIME:  List of Points +2 - Pixel Hunt 1 (Silver Coin) +2 - Guessing you can look in the barrel +2 - Walked into the Dark Forest -2 - Except not really +4 - Saved bees +2 - Got some honey +2 - Retrieved stick +4 - Played fetch +2 - Ahh! Life-giving water! Nectar of the gods! Graham can now feel strength and renewal flowing through him. +2 - Stealing a dead man's shoes +3 - Found the temple +2 - Hid at the temple +3 - Found bandit camp +2 - The magic staff +2 - Open SESAME +2 - Gold coin +3 - Brass bottle +5 - Madame Mushka's reading +2 - Actually entering the dark forest +4 - Gave the witch a genie +2 - Saw a single pixel key +2 - Leather pouch +2 - A town with money +3 - Unlocked the tree +2 - Heart taker +4 - Honey trap +6 - Elf kidnapper +4 - Got boots +2 - Bought pie +4 - Saved rat +4 - Returned the heart +2 - Got the harp +4 - Spinning wheel for a marionette +2 - Got tambourine +2 - Antony's golden needle +4 - Needle for cloak +4 - Marionette for sled +4 - Shoes for hammer +2 - Chewed up rope +4 - Broke out of the impossible room +2 - Stole from the innkeeper +3 - Scared the snake off +4 - Equipped cloak to not freeze to death +5 - Climbed rope +2 - Actual platforming +4 - Ate the lamb and not the pie +5 - Sledding +3 - Fed eagle +6 - Played the harp for Icebella +4 - The Pie +4 - Delicate crystal + HAMMER +2 - Pixel Hunt v4 +2 - Helped by eagle +2 - Found a prybar +5 - Plugged the hole +3 - Found the only island in the ocean +4 - Tempted the harpies +3 - Got Cedric +2 - Conch shell +7 - A shell of an easier time hearing now +1 - Smelly fish 2 +5 - Blew up the snake eyes +4 - Wedged grate open +3 - Friends with Dink +2 - Borrowed Dink's hair pin +4 - Lockpicking +2 - I want peas +4 - Befriended Cassima +2 - Dropped in a cell with no exit +4 - Retrieved cheese +3 - Cartoon pratfall +3 - Tempted the cat +2 - Captured Manannan +3 - Stole Mordack's wand +8 - Put both wands on platters +5 - Say cheese +4 - Used wand on Mordack +4 - Tiger spell +4 - Rabbit spell +4 - Apparently a mongoose +4 - Dousing the fire Final Total 260/260 Register of Deaths A pooooisonous snake! Not BEEing careful Swimming in a river Toadally unprepared Meeting the Innkeeper Feeding the bears Failing to drink water in the desert Being a spy, apparently x3 Meeting the friendly bandits Being a greedy rear end in a top hat Graham the genie Permanently stuck* Thanking the innkeeper for his hospitality Taking a shortcut off a cliff POPsicle Tree roots aren't sturdy Actual platforming Starving to death Unstable mountain path Dog food Yeti Friend Invisible hole in the boat Here be dragons Harpy food x2 Falling into the water around Mordack's island from a height of 5 feet. Swimming home The eyes have it Very expensive, Graham Force choke Captured twice Mannfred told on Graham Faerie dragon hugs Dragonfire Final Total 35 deaths, 1 unwinnable state
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Oct 27, 2017 16:06
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For a point-and-click adventure, a Disney Sword in the Stone-style wizard's duel is a good way to handle a boss fight, that part was actually pretty cool (bad mongoose icon aside). Of course then that wet fart of an ending comes along and lets all the air out of the ball. These LPs are pretty great. I only played a couple of the old KQ games, and I'm not regretting playing more after seeing these. Thanks for making this thread.
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Oct 27, 2017 16:18
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So Crispin's only job in the entire adventure, beyond transporting Graham to the start, is to take a bullet at the end?
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Oct 27, 2017 16:18
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:So Crispin's only job in the entire adventure, beyond transporting Graham to the start, is to take a bullet at the end? Cedric.
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Oct 27, 2017 16:31
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Now that it's over, I can link my favourite KQ5-adjacent thing, the recut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj9rsgImF8M Where Cedric finally gets what he deserves
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Oct 27, 2017 16:37
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Well, we did it. King's Quest V is dead. I'm guessing by everyone's portraits you're gonna be playing the Windows version of KQ6 instead of the DOS version.
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Oct 27, 2017 16:37
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Having Crispin solve everything in the end really introduces a bad logic - it makes more sense for Graham to have stayed and helped the old wizard research the spells, then teleport them to Modack's castle. And what's hilarious about Cedric taking the bullet is it's not intentional, Cedric wasn't diving to save him, he just accidentally got in the way trying to tell him something.
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Oct 27, 2017 17:13
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I think VI is actually the one I played a little. Not that I got far.
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Oct 27, 2017 17:29
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Know what else is hilarious? Crispin says it doesn't take a genius to figure out Mordack's motive for kidnapping the royal family and yet he took the entire game to discover what Graham already knew from the fortune teller! By the way, Mannanan's fate is never revealed. Was he intended to return for one of the later games or did the writers just forget about him? For all we know, he starved to death on the library floor.
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Oct 27, 2017 17:42
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This is the TRUE canonical ending to King's Quest 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soa_yptl1mw
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Oct 27, 2017 18:00
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Having read this LP, I don't feel quite as bad for not ever having been able to get far in this barmy game. I will say, and I may be damning with fine praise here, that while the animation is understandably choppy for the era, the pixel art is still very attractive. Also, I think that Crispin's voice actor did a very good job and Cassima's wasn't bad either.
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Oct 27, 2017 19:05
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The wizard duel at the end, if the icons hadn't been borderline-indecipherable, was about the only puzzle in the game I'd call "good."
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Oct 27, 2017 19:37
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A much better ending would be if they had Graham cast a couple spells like Alexander did in 3, it would add some real use/explanation to a pile of semi random items you could have gotten in Mordack's castle (or throughout the game if they needed to add some BS to sell hintbooks.)
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Oct 27, 2017 21:24
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DoubleNegative posted:
>TIP FEDORA
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Oct 27, 2017 22:06
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Crispin's wand would have been way more useful if we could actually do something with it during the game. It's like the rotting fish from Space Quest 6.
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Oct 27, 2017 23:09
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Snorb posted:Crispin's wand would have been way more useful if we could actually do something with it during the game. It's like the rotting fish from Space Quest 6. At least you don't have the option of not picking it up.
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Oct 27, 2017 23:15
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I think the King's Quest V audio switch glitch deserves special mention... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqunFIEI1IY If you play the DOS version with the Windows CD in, the dialogue gets switched around and it's super hilarious.
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Oct 28, 2017 01:16
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Snorb posted:Crispin's wand would have been way more useful if we could actually do something with it during the game. It's like the rotting fish from Space Quest 6. The copy protection checks are supposed to represent you using it, but they don’t appear in the CD version.
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Oct 28, 2017 01:44
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Have you at least got as much time as possible to work out what the hell that machine is for, or are you on a timer?
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Oct 28, 2017 01:49
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EorayMel posted:This is the TRUE canonical ending to King's Quest 5: LOL, the Cedric part I predicted, but the very last bit had me laughing hysterically.
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Oct 28, 2017 02:48
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The cheese, though...  KQVI has the best character in it ever if I remember right and I can't wait.
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Oct 28, 2017 05:41
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MadDogMike posted:LOL, the Cedric part I predicted, but the very last bit had me laughing hysterically. Me too. I think that was dedicated to Retsupurae's playthrough, since the creator also did a music video for their Harvester Wrongpurae. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIYfSY1PjFs
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Oct 28, 2017 06:17
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Welp, the worst is over (well, 8 aside). Time for the high point. 7's not too bad either.
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Oct 28, 2017 08:11
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Honestly, the puzzles wouldn't have been so bad if they followed the same pattern from the early King's Quest games: if there were two solutions and you simply earned more points for figuring out the best one. For example, the troll would let you cross his bridge if you paid the price but introducing him to Mr Goat would get you across for free and net you some points into the bargain.
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Oct 28, 2017 09:41
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Despite everything that happened, somehow the silliest part of the game for me managed to be the fact that the main villain turned himself into fire and was defeated by getting rained on. Talk about a pathetic way to go.
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Oct 28, 2017 09:48
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Alexander pulls out his magic map. ... Even the bloody shopkeeps in KQ6 are actual characters. They have personalities and opinions and poo poo, instead of being a lovely accent stapled onto a fetch quest.
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Oct 28, 2017 11:30
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Favorite little things about the ending: 1. Mordack let Cassima keep her makeup as a scullery maid, I see. 2. Nobody remarking on Cedric lying crumpled in the corner during the entire happy reunion.
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Oct 28, 2017 16:42
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Bloops Crusts posted:I think the King's Quest V audio switch glitch deserves special mention... This is just magical. No more for today
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Oct 28, 2017 16:47
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| # ? May 9, 2024 06:38 |
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Culka posted:This is just magical. What happens if you play the Windows version with the DOS CD?
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Oct 28, 2017 16:56
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