EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

Ardennes posted:

Well there is 1956 parallel here, but this time it is liberals who want to clear the streets. What is a good name for a liberal version of a tankie?

trudeauite?

# ? Oct 27, 2017 16:35

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 30, 2024 05:36

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Fat Samurai posted:

They have been doing nothing but. The problem is that they were trying to argue that Catalonia was being repressed and that every Catalonian wanted independence which was a ridiculous lie.

And of course nobody wants to touch the poop for their own reasons.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 16:36

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

mobby_6kl posted:

And of course nobody wants to touch the poop for their own reasons.

That, too.

I just find if funnier that they were claiming to be Kosovo.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 16:37

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Fat Samurai posted:

That, too.

I just find if funnier that they were claiming to be Kosovo.

I've even heard people trying to argue that Catalonia is a colonial nation to invoke the UN charter.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 16:44

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

re-reading the interview, it's a bit striking just how much radical political violence used to be tolerated

quote:

[CBC Reporter] Tim Ralfe: �what you're talking about to me is choices, and my choice is to live in a society that is free and democratic, which means that you don't have people with guns running around in it.

[Prime Minister] Pierre Trudeau: Correct.

Ralfe: And one of the things I have to give up for that choice is the fact that people like you may be kidnapped.

Trudeau: Sure, but this isn't my choice, obviously...

# ? Oct 27, 2017 16:47

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

CottonWolf posted:

I imagine the police themselves will be very aware of this. They don't want to actively inflame the situation if they can avoid it.

Given literally every police force, a sizeable segment is deeply authoritarian and would love an excuse to go to war with their enemies.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 16:47

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Ardennes posted:

Haha the parallel between "tankies" and this thread are pretty great atm.

As we've learned time and time again that as long as long as you don't have 'socialist' anywhere in your political party's name you can get away with it.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 16:53

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Ardennes posted:

What is a good name for a liberal version of a tankie?

A liberal.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:03

Baudolino: Apr 1, 2010; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Are the people willing to resist passively or active against Spain or will there be a few demonstrations and then back to normality? Some people are waving flags rigth now but is this really a "kill or be killed" issue for them? I doubt it.
There is a lot that can be done to goad the police into using extreme force against civilians and the more that happens the less legitimate the central government becomes. That strategy worked for Ghandi and Ruhollah Khomeini and it is perhaps the only real chanche for a truly independent Catalonia. They have no other leverage to use against Spain.
Now we will see if ordinary Catalans really want to this happen or not. I`ts only when it starts to cost people personally we get a idea of the strength of their resolve to achieve their political dreams.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:07

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

How does Basque country feel about all this?

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:07

unwantedplatypus: Sep 6, 2012

I look forward to Franco's exhumed corpse being put in a tank for one last ride through the streets

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:12

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

ronya posted:

re-reading the interview, it's a bit striking just how much radical political violence used to be tolerated

Yes.

quote:

Trudeau: Yes, well there are a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed, but it is more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of a soldier's helmet.

Ralfe: At any cost? How far would you go with that? How far would you extend that?

Trudeau: Well, just watch me.

Ralfe: At reducing civil liberties? To that extent?

Trudeau: To what extent?

Ralfe: Well, if you extend this and you say, ok, you're going to do anything to protect them, does this include wire-tapping, reducing other civil liberties in some way?

Trudeau: Yes, I think the society must take every means at its disposal to defend itself against the emergence of a parallel power which defies the elected power in this country and I think that goes to any distance. So long as there is a power in here which is challenging the elected representative of the people I think that power must be stopped and I think it's only, I repeat, weak-kneed bleeding hearts who are afraid to take these measures.

It's a good thing that nowadays, all this political violence of having soldiers patrolling the streets and state agencies performing wiretapping has not been normalized to the point that people don't even find it objectionable in the first place. Really, really good we live in more enlightened times. Yes. Definitely.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:13

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

Cat Mattress posted:

Yes.

It's a good thing that nowadays, all this political violence of having soldiers patrolling the streets and state agencies performing wiretapping has not been normalized to the point that people don't even find it objectionable in the first place. Really, really good we live in more enlightened times. Yes. Definitely.

quite. it is remarkable, isn't it.

at some point the threat of radical revolution became suddenly seen as, more often than not, an empty bluff. the ball start rolling after france may 1968, i think; the shock was not an uprising and national general strike, but that after an uprising and a national general strike, the gaullists still went on to win at the ballot box in june. after that I think western governments worldwide became more willing to simply ride out society-shattering protests rather than either suppress them or surrender to them

the counterintuitive aspect is that mass support for police presence in society increased as this went on, but if you think about it, a radical movement that burns a few cars and smashes a few shops without getting anywhere - over and over again - just becomes a enduring annoyance. The claim to dissident legitimacy collapses.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:34

smoke sumthin bitch: Dec 14, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

hump day bitches! posted:

Whatever happens we are going to be poorer, less free, less open, more bitter societies.

youre literally inverting reality as a result of your authoritarian delusions

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:37

Ulvino: Mar 20, 2009

Has Maduro recognized the Republic yet? :can:

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:43

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Can someone explain why Catalonia wants independence? Everything I've read is that it basically boils down to them being a wealthy, prosperous region of the country with autonomous rule and they're sick of subsidizing the poorer parts of the country.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:48

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Fat Samurai posted:

They have been doing nothing but. The problem is that they were trying to argue that Catalonia was being repressed and that every Catalonian wanted independence which was a ridiculous lie.

Edit: someone post the �Help Catalonia� video, please, I�m on a train towards the brave new republic and connection is spotty at best.

As an outsider (Canadian, not even European) everything I saw pointed to Catalonia being essentially "we're rich, gently caress you got ours" as the sum total of their grievances towards Spain.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:48

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Angry Lobster posted:

I've even heard people trying to argue that Catalonia is a colonial nation to invoke the UN charter.

This is frequently heard from Scottish nationalists.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:50

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Catalonian parliment declared indepence time for another Iberian conflict

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:54

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

I'm going to laugh if this just ends up being a wet fart because Catalonia Government didn't prepare to actually fight back and expected Spain to back down to have talks.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:54

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

Extreme0 posted:

I'm going to laugh if this just ends up being a wet fart because Catalonia Government didn't prepare to actually fight back and expected Spain to back down to have talks.

Given none of them signed their names on that declaration, this honestly does seem very likely.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:59

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Has Barcelona announced it won�t be playing any La Liga or Champions League fixtures for the rest of the season?

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:59

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

Boon posted:

Can someone explain why Catalonia wants independence? Everything I've read is that it basically boils down to them being a wealthy, prosperous region of the country with autonomous rule and they're sick of subsidizing the poorer parts of the country.

Dawncloack posted:

The French have already made noises about letting Bar�a play in their league, so frankly, the important stuff is sorted out.

More important: At this point I don't see how the radioactive poo poo could not hit the turbofan.

The Catalans have always two things from the central government. One, for the central government to stop pissing on their faces, two, stuff about taxes, infrastructure investment, etc.etc.

A little historical background, because I'm bored. The Kingdom of Aragon and County of Barcelona, as it was known at the time, was an independent kingdom until King Ferdinand of Aragon marries King Isabella of Castille, shortly before the Arabs (along with the Jews) are kicked out of Spain and some dude called Christoper gets a weird idea in his head that the world is round.

To sum up 300 years very quickly, from that point on things get a little muddy. Spain as we know it today didn't start existing, the way they lied to me in my (deep south of Spain) history class, and neither was it a completely independent kingdom the way Catalan kids are lied to in school.

In the early 18th Century the literally retarded Castillian king dies without a heir and all of Europe goes to war over it. The Catalans back the wrong horse (The German supported emperor) and in 1713 most of Europe peaces out (Peace treaty of Utrecht) and leaves the Catalans out to dry. On the 11th of September 1714 Barcelona surrenders after the Castillian army agrees not to plunder Barcelona. Barcelona is plundered a few hours later.

After this, and I'm going to summarize another 200 years in one go, the new Bourbon monarchy drastically reduces the autonomy of Catalonia and also Navarre, to create a more centralized state. (Phillip the V was a grandson of Louis the XIV, aka "The state is me", after all). But not only do they lose all their autonomy and sovereignty, for the next 200 years and change (namely, until the 2nd Spanish Republic is declared in 1931), every so often the central government passed some mostly stupid and extremely petty law against minority languages. It's not just about making the administration Spanish only, no, when telegraphs became a thing Madrid banned the use of Catalan over telegraph, when phones became a thing they banned Catalan over the phone, as I mentioned it they banned it in the administration so a town hall in some hamlet lost in the mountains were no Castillian had ever set foot had to conduct business in Spanish, the first public education act in Spain not just didn't include regional languages, they were banned and children punished for using it, and a long, petty, stupid etc.

The second Spanish republic was way better about these things but then Franco came and hosed over the entire country and every single minority, belief, region and person, because, well, he was an idiot with a self-image problem.

This gets us to 1975 when the current Spanish constitution is approved, creating the mutant, clumsy and top-heavy not-federation-federation we Spaniards live under.

The idea wrt regional identities is, your language is official in your region alongside Spanish, and you decide on education and stuff. A marked improvement on paper. In practice, though, liberal democracy happened, along with an entrenched hatred of anything not purely Spanish that Franco had cultivated during his entire regime.

Every single time a two-bit politician of the two major parties gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar the default response is: "Yeah but the loving catalans are stealing from all of us!" and it's worked until very recently. Stocking regional hatred has been the number one strategy of the conservatives, number two being hatred of inmigrants. The same goes for the """""socialist""""" party, which, although less bad, it has used regional hatred generously. (The fact that there was an actual insurgency in the basque country, certainly, didn't help, the dirty war by the central government was probably not super cool either). They are both to blame for this.
(Obviously both sides are, but more power = more blame. It's not just that tho: I went to college in Barcelona and noticed how Catalan media was significantly less aggressive towards Spain. This might have changed in the decade since I left)

Hell, ever since I am a kid I hear the media lie and manipulate about the topic. To this day you hear idiots from Southern Spain going on and on about how the Spanish language is persecuted in Catalonia. Their reasoning? Regional law stipulates that street signs can be in any languages you want, provided one of them is Catalan. [irony] I'm sure jews who survived the holocaust can really empatize with the poor Spanish speakers in Catalonia[/irony]

And it's not as if the petty laws have stopped. Another example: how does a school in Catalonia decide how many hours of Spanish vs. Catalan they teach? Simple, they look at the neighborhood where they work, and adapt to that. There are neighborhoods where Catalan is the dominant languages. There, less hours of Spanish are taught (but never below a minimum standard). In some neighborhoods no Catalan is spoken, so the opposite happens.
And one day the (lackey) Supreme Court of Spain decides that if a single family demands it, any school has to go maximum Spanish.

There was also the creation of a political police unit to dig up or make up scandals relating to Catalan leadership (or left-wing parties)

Then there's the economic side.
A law makes it so that no airline can have a spot in the Barcelona airport if they don't purchase a spot in Madrid too.
The Madrid region gets 80% of the student grants of the country.
The central government decided in the 90's that the high speed railway had to start by connecting Madrid and loving Seville because there was some stupid world fair or something. Madrid-Barcelona, which had the most sense, had to wait until the mid 00's, and the connection with loving France, our most important land border and trade partner, until 2013. I mean, come the gently caress on. And it's the same for highways. Madrid has 11 highways around it, including the private ones bailed out with public money. Barcelona has two.

Of course, most southern Spaniards won't acknowledge most of this because regional hatred runs so deep that making the central government accountable is practically treason.

Then there's the absolutely sprawling corruption cases from the current government, most of them centered around Madrid funnily enough. (Not that Catalan governments haven't been, but note, previous governments)

Anyway, enough. To the present day.

Spain has a political problem, which is that the Catalans want 1. Madrid to stop pissing in their faces and 2. Madrid to stop being a loving leech.

The Rajoy government cannot even begin to think about sitting down and talking to a region because ~~they are a bunch of loving fascists that revere Franco~~ if there's an issue its electorate care about is "gently caress the regions, sit down, shut up, you are Spanish". And so the problem that started when the constitutional court struck down some passages of Catalonia's regional charter (which said, without any legal force behind it, that Catalonia was a nation) has been left to fester. The conservative government has never even imagined to deal with this as the political process it is, and has instead threatened to use the police to deal with it. Prominent conservative economists have called for Barcelona to be bombarded in the media.

At the same time the pro-independence movement has gained strength.

At this point, and this is where my predictions start, independence is practically inevitable. This is my reasoning: the entire Catalan leadership knows how much the average policeman and army officer hates the Catalans. They must suspect that, if the bid fails, they'll have serious legal trouble. They can't blink, and so they will go all out for an independence referendum on the 1st of October.

The conservatives only believe in two things: More money for the rich and gently caress regions.

To my mind, they can only stop the referendum, and independence, with some serious violence. And if they do that they will just delay it, and gently caress up many, many things in the process. Not just Spain's international standing and whatnot, but think about this: Every single piece of the Catalan government's foreign debt says "Owned by the King of Spain". They could default on that. It's like having an explosive belt.

Anyway, that was my screed about what makes me most angry of the cesspool that Spanish politics is. If someone wants sources for something I have them.

Edir: Oh and one final thing. For a civil war you need the army to be split. The Spanish army is as conservative as it is incompetent, they hate the Catalans and one survey, many years ago, of the entire officer corps revealed that they ALL thought no region should have autonomy and everything should be decided from Madrid. We are Russia essentially).

Edit2: And all of this at the time when ANOTHER Spanish bank, Liberbank, is about to fall! Fun times.

Enjoy, I guess :shrug:

# ? Oct 27, 2017 17:59

Geriatric Pirate: Apr 25, 2008; by Nyc_Tattoo

Extreme0 posted:

I'm going to laugh if this just ends up being a wet fart because Catalonia Government didn't prepare to actually fight back and expected Spain to back down to have talks.

It will, people here are being hysterical as usual. Tanks rolling down the street? Many deaths? Hungary 1956? Get a grip, guys.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 18:00

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

ronya posted:

quite. it is remarkable, isn't it.

at some point the threat of radical revolution became suddenly seen as, more often than not, an empty bluff. the ball start rolling after france may 1968, i think; the shock was not an uprising and national general strike, but that after an uprising and a national general strike, the gaullists still went on to win at the ballot box in june. after that I think western governments worldwide became more willing to simply ride out society-shattering protests rather than either suppress them or surrender to them

the counterintuitive aspect is that mass support for police presence in society increased as this went on, but if you think about it, a radical movement that burns a few cars and smashes a few shops without getting anywhere - over and over again - just becomes a enduring annoyance. The claim to dissident legitimacy collapses.

The problem is that most western civilization protest movements are not desperate enough to credibly weather it out. Almost everyone has a very real opportunity cost to not participating in their daily routine (employment, rent, debt and restrictive welfare systems typically). Therefore, if you as the government don't push back the protest will eventually implode on itself as people are forced to leave and go back to their daily life. Media interest feeds back into this as the media will eventually stop reporting if nothing is happening which in turn drastically lowers morale among protestors. There is never a need for violence, and therefore it's typically used decisively when only a portion of the original protestors are left.

Contrast this to something like Ukraine where the protesters in Kiev were desperate, mobilized, entrenched, supplied and weren't going anywhere. At some point you use too much violence, a few of the protestors die and then everything blows completely out of proportion and whoops you no longer have a government.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 18:06

Ulvino: Mar 20, 2009

Ulvino posted:

Watch now as the Vall d'Aran secedes from the new born Republic. �c!

Quoting myself for Monday.

https://twitter.com/conselharan/status/923927932539633664

Editing for URL.

Ulvino fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 27, 2017

# ? Oct 27, 2017 18:10

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Ulvino posted:

Quoting myself for Monday.

Any more info about this aside from the tweet anouncing monday's meeting of the council?

# ? Oct 27, 2017 18:14

Ulvino: Mar 20, 2009

Nope, just F5'ing several places (and plotting alternative ways to return home in case Plaça Catalunya gets swarmed again) because Fridays at work are dull.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 18:17

Honest Thief: Jan 11, 2009

LeoMarr posted:

Catalonian parliment declared indepence time for another Iberian conflict

Iberian? We ain't nothing to do with that

# ? Oct 27, 2017 18:42

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

Rappaport posted:

Enjoy, I guess

So should I ask for a new globe on my Christmas wish list or not?

# ? Oct 27, 2017 18:47

poty: Jun 21, 2008; 虹はどこで終わるのですか？あなたの魂の中で、または地平線で?

Reading the international reaction to this on https://twitter.com/thespainreport it's clear that this is the Spanish government's to lose, and that the best course of action might be not doing very much at all.

Now watch them do something big and dumb instead.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 18:58

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

quote:

Edir: Oh and one final thing. For a civil war you need the army to be split. The Spanish army is as conservative as it is incompetent, they hate the Catalans and one survey, many years ago, of the entire officer corps revealed that they ALL thought no region should have autonomy and everything should be decided from Madrid. We are Russia essentially).

I�m just an American outsider so I have no idea on the nuances and intricacies of this but this last bit is something I don�t really understand. Spain is a country, and Catalonia is an �autonomous region.� But like� Catalonia is a part of Spain, is it not? Why doesn�t it make sense that the top level of government come from Madrid, where I understand is where the seat of power of Spain the country is?

To put it into perspective, we have 50 states that kinda do their own thing and each of these states has their own army (the individual state national guards) but at the end of the day, Arizona is America, but California is also America and so on and so on. Foreign countries shouldn�t have to deal with 50 different state governments, so they deal with Washington DC. If we authorized a war, each of those state national guards would be commanded by generals in Washington.

Help me out here?

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:09

Geriatric Pirate: Apr 25, 2008; by Nyc_Tattoo

Boris Galerkin posted:

I�m just an American outsider so I have no idea on the nuances and intricacies of this but this last bit is something I don�t really understand. Spain is a country, and Catalonia is an �autonomous region.� But like� Catalonia is a part of Spain, is it not? Why doesn�t it make sense that the top level of government come from Madrid, where I understand is where the seat of power of Spain the country is?

To put it into perspective, we have 50 states that kinda do their own thing and each of these states has their own army (the individual state national guards) but at the end of the day, Arizona is America, but California is also America and so on and so on. Foreign countries shouldn�t have to deal with 50 different state governments, so they deal with Washington DC. If we authorized a war, each of those state national guards would be commanded by generals in Washington.

Help me out here?

Catalonia is Texas

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:10

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Boris Galerkin posted:

I�m just an American outsider so I have no idea on the nuances and intricacies of this but this last bit is something I don�t really understand. Spain is a country, and Catalonia is an �autonomous region.� But like� Catalonia is a part of Spain, is it not? Why doesn�t it make sense that the top level of government come from Madrid, where I understand is where the seat of power of Spain the country is?

To put it into perspective, we have 50 states that kinda do their own thing and each of these states has their own army (the individual state national guards) but at the end of the day, Arizona is America, but California is also America and so on and so on. Foreign countries shouldn�t have to deal with 50 different state governments, so they deal with Washington DC. If we authorized a war, each of those state national guards would be commanded by generals in Washington.

Help me out here?

You know how there are things that DC can't force the states to do? All the stuff with Medicaid, school curricula, speed limits, etc? That's the idea of autonomy.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:11

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

poty posted:

Reading the international reaction to this on https://twitter.com/thespainreport it's clear that this is the Spanish government's to lose, and that the best course of action might be not doing very much at all.

Now watch them do something big and dumb instead.

Well if they don't do anything wouldn't Catalonia just go ahead with writing their constitution, setting up an army etc? Sure, it will be a mess and nobody will recognize them but then they'll be stuck like Transnistria or Novorossiya or something.

Geriatric Pirate posted:

Catalonia is ~~Texas~~ California

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:14

BabyFur Denny: Mar 18, 2003

Boris Galerkin posted:

I�m just an American outsider so I have no idea on the nuances and intricacies of this but this last bit is something I don�t really understand. Spain is a country, and Catalonia is an �autonomous region.� But like� Catalonia is a part of Spain, is it not? Why doesn�t it make sense that the top level of government come from Madrid, where I understand is where the seat of power of Spain the country is?

To put it into perspective, we have 50 states that kinda do their own thing and each of these states has their own army (the individual state national guards) but at the end of the day, Arizona is America, but California is also America and so on and so on. Foreign countries shouldn�t have to deal with 50 different state governments, so they deal with Washington DC. If we authorized a war, each of those state national guards would be commanded by generals in Washington.

Help me out here?

Yeah but hypothetically speaking if the southern states of the USA decided to do their own thing and form something like a Confederate States of America, some of the current generals and soldiers probably would side with them, right?

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:14

Aviron: Oct 6, 2011

Rappaport posted:

Enjoy, I guess

I would only believe the historic facts and take everything else in here with a grain of salt, tbh : I used this as a starting point to try to understand the current situation and I was not able to find sources for a bunch of the claims in here (and others are just completely false, like the one about student grants )

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:22

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

mobby_6kl posted:

Well if they don't do anything wouldn't Catalonia just go ahead with writing their constitution, setting up an army etc? Sure, it will be a mess and nobody will recognize them but then they'll be stuck like Transnistria or Novorossiya or something.

Catalonia would ask to "rejoin" on the next elections, when nationalist parties plummet after the Catalans discover that being poor hurts and that they have been lied to for years. Also, Madrid is holding the purse strings, so the Generalitat is literally unable to pay its employees. It's hard to create an army that way.

But Rajoy has to do something or it will hurt his polling in the rest of Spain, so of course he is going to do something dumb to look tough.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:24

Democrazy: Oct 16, 2008; If you're not willing to lick the boot, then really why are you in politics lol? Everything is a cycle of just getting stomped on so why do you want to lose to it over and over, just submit like me, I'm very intelligent.

Fat Samurai posted:

Catalonia would ask to "rejoin" on the next elections, when nationalist parties plummet after the Catalans discover that being poor hurts and that they have been lied to for years. Also, Madrid is holding the purse strings, so the Generalitat is literally unable to pay its employees. It's hard to create an army that way.

But Rajoy has to do something or it will hurt his polling in the rest of Spain, so of course he is going to do something dumb to look tough.

In a way, it's a bit like Slovenia but if Yugoslavia in the late 80s was run by someone who wasn't a complete parochial moron, instead of being a regular moron like here.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:30

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 30, 2024 05:36

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Rajoy just announced the dissolution of the entire Catalan government, as expected. Elections on December 21st.

More at eleven.

# ? Oct 27, 2017 19:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

«‹›960 »