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"100 new posts today, wiz must have tweeted something even cooler- Oh." I don't even have a horse in this race beyond being confident in Wiz and the team - every update has improved the game so far - but someone mentioned Ascendancy as an example of hyperlink only games, and brought memories back. I bloody loved that game, think I played it until I'd won with every species, and there were a LOT of species. Very few people seem to remember it nowadays, though. Did it not sell well?
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Oct 30, 2017 00:42
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SniperWoreConverse posted:another thing that kinda sucks is larger fleets take longer to worm, they have to keep digging the hole until it's big enough to squeeze everyone through. So I dunno if anyone's done the math, but I kinda feel like there's a difference in transit time The wiki says this: quote:The "cost" or "Wormhole-size" for a single jump is 200 + the Fleet size. Another 30% penalty is added to that total, if the connection does not end in own or allied territory. This applies even if the target system has the station generating the wormhole. This cost is worked off starting with about 15-16 units/day (the exact figure is unknown and even the displayed time might not be 100% accurate). The jump takes modified Wormhole-size/Wormhole generation speed per day, rounded up to complete. For example, a single size one fleet at the start of the game it takes about 13 days to complete the jump into friendly territory. In turn, the travel time for a large lategame fleet can easily be in the months. So that’d be 201 vs 203 “wormhole units” so they’d take the same amount of time.
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Oct 30, 2017 00:44
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DrSunshine posted:The one thing I'd change about Wormholes is to make the Wormhole station more of "a thing". Forcing me to build it at the edge of the system is kind of a drag. At 75 minerals a piece, and made out of cardboard and tissue paper, it's basically just an annoyance that I have to build multiple copies of to get a decent throughput for my fleets. I think it should be integrated as part of a starbase and somewhat expensive, but have, like, twice the range that it has to start with. Make wormhole stations something to give due consideration to! It would also leave Wormhole civs vulnerable to attacks -- rather than now, where they can pretty much just build a new one as soon as your fleet leaves. Should make them need both ends to actually function otherwise you're slowboating 
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Oct 30, 2017 01:12
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Gates, which let you travel between systems in a day, but you must control both ends. EDIT: Oh that's an idea! Endgame "upgrades" to all FTL systems. Wormholes turn into Stargates, Warp drives into Jump Drives, and Hyperlanes into constructible Hyperlane Networks!
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Oct 30, 2017 01:16
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hobbesmaster posted:The wiki says this: Split fleets took until 2200 8 26 to get home Solid fleet took until 2200 9 13 to get home I feel like this is probably because of the actual wormhole mechanics, you have to move to the position of the outbound hole, so the split fleet could go to the place they need to while the next fleet gets jumped inbound. With the singular fleet the wormhole station managers were probably twiddling their tentacles waiting for the fleet to get to outbound position for a couple days per jump. It'd be interesting to do the same thing with say, 6 fleets of 50 vs 3 fleets of 100 vs 1 fleet of 300 and see if there is any noticeable change to this dynamic.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:19
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DrSunshine posted:The one thing I'd change about Wormholes is to make the Wormhole station more of "a thing". Forcing me to build it at the edge of the system is kind of a drag. At 75 minerals a piece, and made out of cardboard and tissue paper, it's basically just an annoyance that I have to build multiple copies of to get a decent throughput for my fleets. I think it should be integrated as part of a starbase and somewhat expensive, but have, like, twice the range that it has to start with. Make wormhole stations something to give due consideration to! It would also leave Wormhole civs vulnerable to attacks -- rather than now, where they can pretty much just build a new one as soon as your fleet leaves. Also that weird nonsense where there is nothing to prompt a wormhole treaty renewal, or even just leave the things mothballed if the treaty expires. Nope, treaty expired, stations go POOF
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Oct 30, 2017 01:23
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GunnerJ posted:Uh, not really my point but OK. I like the wormhole challenges and you don't. I dunno what else there is to discuss. Sorry this upsets you. DrSunshine posted:The one thing I'd change about Wormholes is to make the Wormhole station more of "a thing". Forcing me to build it at the edge of the system is kind of a drag. At 75 minerals a piece, and made out of cardboard and tissue paper, it's basically just an annoyance that I have to build multiple copies of to get a decent throughput for my fleets. I think it should be integrated as part of a starbase and somewhat expensive, but have, like, twice the range that it has to start with. Make wormhole stations something to give due consideration to! It would also leave Wormhole civs vulnerable to attacks -- rather than now, where they can pretty much just build a new one as soon as your fleet leaves. One issue I have with bulking up Wormhole stations is that it would actually reduce your tactical options in war. Currently, hit-and running a bunch of stations is a great option to try to keep an otherwise superior enemy from crushing you and playing it carefully you can get them trapped in a pretty small area. If the stations are harder to assault then this slowly becomes a less viable option. The idea of being able to bulk up their capacity and create certain ship routes would be cool though.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:25
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New Butt Order posted:I like the wormhole challenges and you don't. I dunno what else there is to discuss. Sorry this upsets you. Why do you think I'm upset? I'm mostly just confused about why my opinion about a gameplay mechanic got drawn into some point about how it's better to not restrict everyone to hyperlanes only. I wasn't arguing anything about that.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:28
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GunnerJ posted:Why do you think I'm upset? I'm mostly just confused about why my opinion about a gameplay mechanic got drawn into some point about how it's better to not restrict everyone to hyperlanes only. I wasn't arguing anything about that. Because speculation of hyperlanes only was the reason people were talking about FTL in the first place. Suppose I could have been less of a dick about it. My bad.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:33
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DrSunshine posted:Gates, which let you travel between systems in a day, but you must control both ends. I still think it would be interesting to test out a stargate that works like this: It's a rare tech. If you have wormhole or possibly a flavor of jumpdrive it's more likely to be drawn. You have to build some building on a planet. It acts as a wormhole station, but for ground troops. If you jump a troop, it costs something similar to the original cost of the troop, but in energy. Pulling troops home would cost the same as sending them out. Troops still have transports as usual, so they could just space home, or space out and jump home, or whatever you feel like doing. You could also have a civic similar to the one that gives free robots to have a free stargate. Maybe make it so troops who are fighting can't jump to another planet or be withdrawn until the fight is over? Maybe not, I think you can evac troops to space so I don't see an issue with evacuating them thru the gate. Maybe another rare tech lets you send colonists through the gate? Probably keep the original cost thing so it would take like 500 minerals and 500 energy to ready the colonists and jump a colony to a planet. It would land just like colony ships where it takes a few days to set up, then it enters normal colonization mode, then it's a regular colony. If it gets bombed at all it still caves in and dies. If you want to go ultra insane make it so it's possible to send construction crews and scientists to whatever stellar body and if you want just totally have no ships, only structures and ground troops. Obviously they wouldn't land on the drat sun, they would have their deployment pod end up in orbit, and release some drones or pilots to construct that outpost or whatever. This would mean that you couldn't plop down defense stations wherever, but that may be getting scrapped anyway. E: it's a super rare occurrence but it would be kinda interesting to save your troops who are trapped behind enemy lines by dropping them to an uninhabited planet. If they didn't bombard you and went to do something else you could have a chance to take off again and bail. You should probably take damage over time if it's some uncolonized or uncolonizable world SniperWoreConverse fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 01:40
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Shugojin posted:Also that weird nonsense where there is nothing to prompt a wormhole treaty renewal, or even just leave the things mothballed if the treaty expires. Nope, treaty expired, stations go POOF there's weird stuff going on with stations in general, there's an event chain that can leave you with an ancient station that you bring online but if this happens outside your territory (it will because you're scanning outside of home) the station will rot away before you can send a ship to drop an outpost, if it's even worth blowing an outpost on this event.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:43
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New Butt Order posted:Because speculation of hyperlanes only was the reason people were talking about FTL in the first place. Suppose I could have been less of a dick about it. My bad. That's OK. Everybody is a little tense right now.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:57
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SniperWoreConverse posted:there's weird stuff going on with stations in general, there's an event chain that can leave you with an ancient station that you bring online but if this happens outside your territory (it will because you're scanning outside of home) the station will rot away before you can send a ship to drop an outpost, if it's even worth blowing an outpost on this event. Yeah, most of my issues with wormholes is actually just with the diplomatic part, and even then just the interface. Which really extends beyond just wormholes - there's an auto-renew with the artisans and all of the traders, but not with the curators or anyone you have this travel treaty with? Very annoying.
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Oct 30, 2017 01:58
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I think that ships transiting a system should have to actually transit the entire system to the jump point market for the system they want to go to. Make it more Lost Fleet.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:18
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McGiggins posted:I think that ships transiting a system should have to actually transit the entire system to the jump point market for the system they want to go to. gently caress no, that'd be annoying as hell.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:29
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McGiggins posted:I think that ships transiting a system should have to actually transit the entire system to the jump point market for the system they want to go to. Same, but only hyperlanes. Warp can just go around.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:31
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Well if you don't, military stations become largely useless, seeing as a hostile fleet can literally cross your entire empire with impunity. Another question: is a pure energy credit empire feasible? Can I build nothing but power and a little bit of food and forever trade power for minerals at a trading enclave, or do they stop selling to you after a while? Edit: an excellent caveat Truga. Warps should be limited only by their range. I'm fine with them jumping out on the edge, recharging, and then jumping from that same spot again.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:32
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You can trade with trading enclaves indefinitely. However, they may eventually be blown up or something.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:38
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McGiggins posted:Well if you don't, military stations become largely useless, seeing as a hostile fleet can literally cross your entire empire with impunity. I mean there was a dev diary about this, interdiction in the new dev build prevents people from leaving the system unless they destroy the interdictor or emergency warp.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:41
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Hmm, so I have thoughts on hyperlanes I want to say, but I'd rather not aggravate people who seem to be on edge. So putting this in a positive way- I like space fortresses. They're cool as gently caress. Unfortunately they mean totally different things depending on what type of FTL you use. They're pretty much irrelevant if you've got wormholes or warp because there are very few terrain restraints. Looks like fortresses are being retooled to be even cooler and integrated with starbases, and that's sweet. But the implications of that are going to vary a lot if chokepoints only exist for some players and not others. I think wormholes are really cool too! And I like them in the context of that being my species thing. Feels fun to leverage its unique advantages, and the drawbacks are fair and that's all lovely. But I'd rather have consistently meaningful space fortresses and more significant space terrain. It'd be cool if all the options remained on the table, but I'd rather they go all in on making space fortresses and strategic terrain cool and consistent than trying to balance fortresses around the fact that a lot of factions just won't have to deal with them (without some sort of interdiction gimmick). These are just my personal preferences. I understand it's a situation where not everyone's going to get exactly what they want. Fake edit: OwlFancier posted:I mean there was a dev diary about this, interdiction in the new dev build prevents people from leaving the system unless they destroy the interdictor or emergency warp.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:53
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McGiggins posted:Well if you don't, military stations become largely useless, seeing as a hostile fleet can literally cross your entire empire with impunity. Perfectly possible, but deeply innefficient.
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Oct 30, 2017 04:55
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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If you build two of the same types of modules on a star fortress, do they stack? Example: I put two shield dampeners on a fortress. Does it now have a -50% shield hit point and -10% shield regen aura?
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Oct 30, 2017 04:59
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Shadowlyger posted:gently caress no, that'd be annoying as hell. What if sublight speeds were significantly increased?
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Oct 30, 2017 05:09
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Having fleets have to fly across systems is largely secondary to the FTL debate because interdiction can (and has) been easily changed to make it irrelevant and the FTL methods affect which systems you even go to in the first place, so whether you have to fly across it when you get there is pretty irrelevant. Functionally almost identical to just making FTL slower.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:28
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Has anyone else found the land acquisition policy is really hit and miss? I just conquered a whole bunch of big full size 20+ planets and every one is still full, no living space freed up for my own folk to come in and oversee things. Yet other times it has triggered correctly.
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Oct 30, 2017 05:54
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FTL thoughts/chat: 1. Everyone uses hyperlanes. Theres no warp cooldown for them. There are points on the system map you travel to to jump to adjacent systems. Increased hyperlane engine tech increases the range from the jump point from which you can jump. 2. You can override and use warp, which has a long cooldown. Increased warp tech increases the range of warp jumps, but not the cooldown. 3. Jump drive works like warp but removes the cooldown. Makes space monsters appear. 4. Wormhole tech allows you to build stations that function like a hyperlane point anywhere in the system. For example, if there are three hyperlane connections in a system, the wormhole station allows you to jump to any of those connecting systems wherever you build it. There is no progressing wormhole tech. Functionally, this does the following: -Early movement is along hyperlanes, but warp allows you to get around space obstacles. -Warp is not intended for general use until jump drives appear. -Terrain is thus preserved, with the exception of wormhole which speed up (less sublight movement) travel in friendly systems. -Jump drives are for endgame when you want to mop up the enemy without having to go a roundabout hyperlane route.
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Oct 30, 2017 07:07
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Wolfechu posted:"100 new posts today, wiz must have tweeted something even cooler- Oh." I think it's just old and slightly weird, and painfully overshadowed by MOO2. I loved it too, especially with the Antagoniser patch which made the AI worth a drat. Apparently it's available for iOS, but the developers appear to have subsequently folded.
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Oct 30, 2017 08:22
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Ascendancy was fun, lack of AI notwithstanding. I especially liked that everyone had a unique special ability. It's aged somewhat terribly though, I tried it again some time back and it was really hard to get back into, mostly for interface reasons. MOO2 is my usual go-to for old space strategy games.
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Oct 30, 2017 09:06
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I made/updated a few mods recently, one inspired by a suggestion in the thread so I'll link them:
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Oct 30, 2017 09:48
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Eiba posted:Hmm, so I have thoughts on hyperlanes I want to say, but I'd rather not aggravate people who seem to be on edge. Here's the thing. While fortresses are most useful in hyperlane only games, where you can just plop dozens of them in one or two border systems and call it a day, they are still incredibly useful in other game modes, but they need to be utilized a bit differently. Defending as a wormhole/jump drive empire (against non hyperlane empires) is much more elastic, where you need to have a rapid response fleet that defends an area that is vulnerable to enemy attack, not just several systems. Fortresses are valuable here since you can control the entry point of enemy fleets in the attacked system, which is hopefully right where your own fleet will soon come out guns blazing. There are terrain restraints but you need to create them yourself. Playing like this is not as easy as with hyperlanes only, but it's definitely doable. No idea about warp tho, I think I only played one game with them and have no idea how to defend against wormhole/jump drive empires. It's just too drat slow for me. But then again, nothing about this will apparently matter in few weeks.
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Oct 30, 2017 11:40
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But your example requires that I have a station capable of withstanding an enemy for a not insignificant period of time (something that cannot be done after early game) until reinforcements arrive, in every single system along my border within range of the closest enemy system in that area (Ie the closest an enemy for could get to me before declaring war while borders are closed). In the current meta, it's just not possible, which is why people prefer hyperlane. The new update will be interesting to get game on feedback for, as I'm hoping that the snares will be able to drag warp ships that are not transiting to that system, but past/across it to something on the other side, allowing us to still place galactic terrain.
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Oct 30, 2017 13:01
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McGiggins posted:But your example requires that I have a station capable of withstanding an enemy for a not insignificant period of time (something that cannot be done after early game) until reinforcements arrive, in every single system along my border within range of the closest enemy system in that area (Ie the closest an enemy for could get to me before declaring war while borders are closed). Nah, in his example, you'd just put fortresses in systems where you have colonies - no matter where what path the enemy fleet takes, they'll eventually end up attacking either one of your planets or one of your fleets, so just put fortresses in all those systems and you'll catch one sooner or later. I'm not a big fan of that waiting game, though, especially if I have allies in the war that might get attacked instead.
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Oct 30, 2017 13:22
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Give all empires a barebones version of all drives, make the choice of FTL a matter of policy, add “enforce Hyperlanes Only for 25 years” as a diplomacy/war goal.
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Oct 30, 2017 13:41
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Main Paineframe posted:Nah, in his example, you'd just put fortresses in systems where you have colonies - no matter where what path the enemy fleet takes, they'll eventually end up attacking either one of your planets or one of your fleets, so just put fortresses in all those systems and you'll catch one sooner or later. I'm not a big fan of that waiting game, though, especially if I have allies in the war that might get attacked instead. This poo poo is tedious micro hell though. A fleet will melt a fortress and starport in the mid to late game relatively quickly, and you have to get your dudes over there as well. So instead of being able to use any defense in depth or anything you just end up playing whack-a-mole as fleets pop around to your snares. Oh, and then you get to go back and manually rebuilt everything! It's really not that fun. System defense should be handled as a kind of general upgrade. Is this system fortified or not? If so, it should attempt to repair its static defenses automatically unless you tell it otherwise. Or something other than having to send a construction ship around each time.
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Oct 30, 2017 13:43
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Potentially very relevant to the future of wormholes: https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/924992187653414915
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Oct 30, 2017 14:32
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Confirming mass-relays only for FTL going forward.
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Oct 30, 2017 14:32
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One FTL addition I would like is the occasional, like, actual wormhole in the galaxy. As in a wibbly space thing that links two distant portions of the galaxy that anyone can use. Would be useful to control and easy to fortify and potentially help with hyperlane boxing in.
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Oct 30, 2017 14:44
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Lets talk about the real problems: Why do I need to download a mod to get decent traits for Robits? What is the point of having robo modding ascension and tech perks if there is only Tier 1 traits and most of them are garbage? You can't even use all the points possible because you have limited number of slots. And why can't I force my Sectors to use certain Templates? I've got some uber bot that costs the same and builds the same as some trash tier filth and the AI just spams the bad one. You should be able to mark a template as deprecated so no new one can be built.
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Oct 30, 2017 14:46
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I've been thinking recently about terrain-related crisis events. With new stuff like shield-stripping pulsars coming, maybe we could get a crisis related to space terrain, too? I'm reading a space story right now about some cosmic assholes manipulating our part of the universe from dozens of galaxies away, and the Milkyway is suffering from space quakes as a consequences: Random gravity pulses are loving over planets, space ships and entire regions of space itself. And it gets progressively worse, while the protagonists are trying to either research what is happening, or trying to find the guys responsible and talk to them to make them stop. This gave me the idea of a similar crisis for Stellaris: After a certain trigger fires, events start to happen which makes random areas of space affected: More suns then just pulsars reduce shields now, the slow down effect of nebula is happening in more places now, poo poo like that. The player has to send out science ships to research the new phenomena showing up all over the place and slowly piece together why this poo poo happens and how to stop it. If the player is too slow, the events get progressively worse until bad events start loving up planets and ships, not just space itself. The crisis could be ended by either finding out where the manipulations are made and traveling there to negotiate with the cosmic power doing this, or with the player civ countering them by building their own space manipulation machine -which could tie in with the other ending by making the cosmic powers show up and negotiate with you to make this poo poo stop before you both blow up the galaxy. To differentiate this crisis from all the others, at no point should combat be involved, except as a suicide option with multiple warnings beforehand - powers at that level shouldn't be fought with lasers and missiles, that's far too silly. I'm not sure what the crisis should be triggered by, maybe reaching a certain level of technology, or having a certain amount of GunnerJ posted:Potentially very relevant to the future of wormholes: wormhole usage, maybe? Thoughts?
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Oct 30, 2017 15:13
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It could be pursuing an enemy fleet through the very same wormhole they entered into. Or keeping a wormhole open for an extra period of time to get multiple fleets going through it.
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Oct 30, 2017 15:14
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